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Official - Combat Changes - Boons

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  • dracory1#6808 dracory1 Member Posts: 65 Arc User

    Is there anyone against changing some of the tiers of power to different stats?

    Just please, not the Critical Severity... Maybe some more defense and one or two of the three offensive.
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 252 Arc User
    Convert all specific damage types e.g. undeads, dragons, devils and other to % total dmg.
    And power can be divided into needed stats such as accu, crit sev or combat adv. Just add more ranks?
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • bayaz#7892 bayaz Member Posts: 89 Arc User

    Is there anyone against changing some of the tiers of power to different stats?

    I am ok with this.

    I have a suggestion about the guild boon structures, too.

    The explorers guild offensive boon was changed to accuracy, which is a good option imo.



    If we could get an combat advantage boon in the offense part, we had power, crit, crit severity and accuracy and then even combat advantage.

    On preview the wizards workshop gives enhance overlords: wards, bonus hp and healing potion bonus. I am certain a lot of guilds built this structure to get the 32.000 HP for harder dungeons and the endgame trials. On preview the 12.000 HP seem a bit underwhelming, given that my DPS wizard has 527.000 HPs now, with a TIL of 46.800 and no tales artifacts, no radiants in defslots and no boon points in HP whatsoever.

    I am not proposing changing the HP boon, but what about converting the enhance overlord: wards boon to combat advantage?
    Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master
  • finiplays#2580 finiplays Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    Combat Advantage % comes to mind as a great alternative to damage. Could we also look at other types of favored enemies e.g. beasts, dragons or a rework of cultists to say apply to Humanoids
  • tempus86#1158 tempus86 Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    Honestly, I always thought the current boon system was going to be a place holder until something more.... forward thinking could be implemented? I mean we have already reached the point where you pick things you may not even want but you have the extra boon points and they have to go somewhere and with the new stat/other system it has totally thrown out the stat priorities.
    By that I mean you have options in the tier 5 section that are now equal or less valuable to tiers lower down.

    Campaigns are a huge time investment and currently boons are a pretty lacking in return value and it think now is the perfect time to redo them.
    Im not suggesting we return to the way things were pre m16 where boons where totally overpowered but we have 75 boon points to spend giving a return of an average 1% per 5 boons spent, spread over 15 different stats and many options nobody ever takes.

    So my suggestion is redo them, get rid of the tiers completely and just have 3 types

    Boons - bunched together in offensive, defensive , utility , basically 5 choices in each section, 1 for stats to match the new groupings in the character sheet. currently we have 65 points to spend here (67 but ive move 2 points into the specialist)
    for example
    Offensive - power, crit, accuracy , crit severity, combat advantage, 0-5%, 0,25% per point spent ( 20 boon points to get 5%)
    Defence - defence, deflect, crit avoidance, deflect severity, awareness, 0-5% 0.25% per point spent
    Utility - control resist, control bonus, incoming healing, outgoing healing, 0-5% 0.25% per point spent,
    and movement speed, 0-10% 1% per point spent.

    Specialist boons - to replace the tier 5 boons, but limited to 2 choices, to a maximum of 10 points spent.
    For example, you could have.

    Maximum hitpoints 0-10% 2% per point spent
    Divinity/soulweave regen. 0-10%, 2% per point spent
    Forte - 0-5% 1% per point spent
    quick recovery, 0-10% action point and recharge speed, 2% per point
    Stamina regen 0-10%, 2% per point spent
    Base damage 0-2.5% 0.5% per point spent
    Potion master - increases healing potions by 0-10% 2% per point


    And master boons - same as they are now, with 3 free points to spend at the same thresholds you have already.


    So an example, a DPS with max boons has 65 to spend on boons, 10 on specialist and 3 on a master boon.
    They could chose to dump all 65 into offensive boons but at the cost of not being able to choice any defensive or utility boosts ( rip movementspeed), aswell as Bonus damage + quick recovery as specialist.

    Or they could take a more balanced split, 40 points in offensive, 15 in defensive and 10 in utility, for lets say...
    5% accuracy
    2.5% crit
    2.5% combat advantage
    3.75% defence
    10% movement speed.
    with 10% hitpoints and 5% quick recovery.

    Or maybe they want to specialise in control buffs and max out control resist + bonus, which costs 40 boon points with 25 left over.

    its hardly a perfect system but it would give players more freedom to customise there rolls, fill in the gaps they might be lacking, or having to make a choice between which stats they need more as there is no way to get them all, with 290 boon point options with only 65 to spend, while at the same time having enough decent choices left to be taken as more boon points get added with future campaigns.

    Just an idea



  • tempus86#1158 tempus86 Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Same problem with guild boons honestly

    the time, effect, money/currency it takes to get a rank 20 guild with rank 10 structures to only give an additional 3000 stats per boon, which is just going to get devalued as item level increases is a bit of a slap in the face i think. Im purposefully not counting the combined rating because this is just there to offset the item level increase.

    At the very least change them to a percentage value so they dont depreciate over time as item level increases.

    Edit:
    Actually its worse than I thought since its 100 item level per level, but only 80 combined rating, so in effect a guild boon its just 1 giant enchantment, which increasing the ratings cap by 100 per rank, but only giving back 80 rating per stat and then giving them back as 1 type. So its just a reshuffle, there is no stat gain at all, Just a reshuffle.

    So basically the only net gain is a bit of bonus damage and hitpoints
  • skrewfaz3d#1482 skrewfaz3d Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    I haven't tested whether it works for sure yet, but since I use it as my boon on live... I'd like to inform you that Blood lust's second bonus mentions it does 120% of weapon damage. I recall that reference being removed with this update.
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    Please, no changes to the boons. I finally understood the logic of your thinking.
  • ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    > @noworries#8859 said:
    > Is there anyone against changing some of the tiers of power to different stats?

    I am. While I think it would be great for dps that get tons of power from Forte, for us healers it would suck we don't get that power from Forte so capping power is harder for us
  • xander#0631 xander Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    will boons be more meaningful with these changes? or will they still be regarded as something like a marginal gain that only in endgame will play a somewhat useful role? will they help a player still without enchantments, companions, mounts right for his role, and at a high level complete the campaign? (not talking about new player but also alt of veteran layer)

    the majority of player play the newest campaing and never return to the older ones because they will not gain much from boons? with the randoms queue you can do AD and enter any dungeon even if you haven't unlocked them through the campaing.

    i agree with ron, for healers and tanks capping power is hard.
    reality is what most recognize as true
  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 194 Arc User
    For t3 gear, as a tank, only piece of power gear I'd like to remain as is is the Skyblazer helm. The 50% is very difficult to cap for a tank without forcing some of our gear to give power. This 10k power helps where we need it most, during bosses to hold aggro.

    Tanks can't proc the Ribcage or whisper's hood anyway and the shirt for 5k has better options and alone may not cap a tank's power.
  • khaozhunterkhaozhunter Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    Bug report: master boon life lessons give 25 item level per rank
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2020

    Is there anyone against changing some of the tiers of power to different stats?

    It depends what the alternative would be. What about something like the following:

    power tier 1 changed to accuracy 0.3% per stack to 1.5% total
    power tier 2 changed to critical strike 0.3% per stack to 1.5% total
    power tier 3 changed to combat advantage 0.3% per stack to 1.5% total
    power tier 4 changed to critical severity 0.3% per stack to 1.5% total

    That way there would be two of each of the four boons mentioned above. Could change the other tiers of those boons to 1.5% total to give 3% total of each (that would be equivalent to some race bonuses).

    Alternatively, could change just two of them to an offensive stat (accuracy/CA perhaps), and two of them to a defensive stat (defense/awareness will be important for pretty much every class it seems).

    Thanks,
    Neko
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    If you want people to grind campaigns, the boons have to be with the time. Same with Guild boons. No one will make the effort and no one will join the lower level guilds further crippling them for leveling.
  • eladonwarps#6040 eladonwarps Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    Just to chime in, I'd like if we didn't lose all the Power boons. Some of us aren't overcapped on Preview, and it can help balance the build. Maybe we can keep 1 or 2?
    Call me El, she/her only. Currently Professions-only until the next combat change fixes this mess.
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 526 Arc User
    ron#1747 said:

    > @noworries#8859 said:

    > Is there anyone against changing some of the tiers of power to different stats?



    I am. While I think it would be great for dps that get tons of power from Forte, for us healers it would suck we don't get that power from Forte so capping power is harder for us

    Tanks agree with @ron#1747

    We don't get power from forte, and our damage multiplier from TIL is the lowest of all classes.

    Take away our power boons and Tanks and Healers will take our meatshields and green floaters and go home. If DPS think they are waiting a long time in a queue now, wait until there are no tanks or heals available because we are still stuck in our solo content bashing away for a stalemate with enemy mobs due to not have access to power boons.
  • tardbathtardbath Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    Tanks need that % power for sure!! give us a (%4power at 5/5 ranks for tanks/healers only) boon and replace the 3 other boon slots for other stats.
  • holikiir#8597 holikiir Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    I'm worried about guild boons giving 3k TIL while other boons don't give any.

    I think it's good (in the present system) that boons won't give you ILV, so that way they don't compromise stat caps. So whether keep it like this or give them a boost in stats.

    But 3k ILV seems a lot. It's already harder to convince players to stay in a developing guild, since the whole stronghold system is outdated and very frustrating (even for us, the guild upgrading lovers). We already lose players for older guilds because of the striving for power system. This could get even worse since 3k ILV is now 300 base dmg (even more for a DPS, which is majority of players).

    Making new or ascending guilds harder to mantain have some bad implications on game community. Specially if we want to get new players.

    This part may be just about me, but I always thought it was very discouraging when you get into a game that kinda forces you to go to an already developed guild. Been there, in fact. But got back to the "start from zero" and though I like it and many friends like it too, it's a pain. We already do useless quests on a daily basis, and new campaigns won't help in development at all (when I say "new" I say 3+ years old campaigns already!). That could be another hard hit in our faces XD.

    There's a chance I missed something, cause I'm not really good at math. So if I got something wrong and someone can please explain it to me I'll be glad.

    Besides that I'm excited for the new changes and liking them overall. But since campaigns are not being updated and they are strongly attached to boons grinding and guild development, this whole topic demands some caution.
  • alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited December 2020

    I'm worried about guild boons giving 3k TIL while other boons don't give any.

    I think it's good (in the present system) that boons won't give you ILV, so that way they don't compromise stat caps. So whether keep it like this or give them a boost in stats.

    But 3k ILV seems a lot. It's already harder to convince players to stay in a developing guild, since the whole stronghold system is outdated and very frustrating (even for us, the guild upgrading lovers). We already lose players for older guilds because of the striving for power system. This could get even worse since 3k ILV is now 300 base dmg (even more for a DPS, which is majority of players).

    Making new or ascending guilds harder to mantain have some bad implications on game community. Specially if we want to get new players.

    This part may be just about me, but I always thought it was very discouraging when you get into a game that kinda forces you to go to an already developed guild. Been there, in fact. But got back to the "start from zero" and though I like it and many friends like it too, it's a pain. We already do useless quests on a daily basis, and new campaigns won't help in development at all (when I say "new" I say 3+ years old campaigns already!). That could be another hard hit in our faces XD.

    There's a chance I missed something, cause I'm not really good at math. So if I got something wrong and someone can please explain it to me I'll be glad.

    Besides that I'm excited for the new changes and liking them overall. But since campaigns are not being updated and they are strongly attached to boons grinding and guild development, this whole topic demands some caution.

    I totally agree, it is increasingly difficult to keep active members in the guild, as indirectly as GH20 guild benefits become a prerequisite for end game content currently on live. the incentives for members to collaborate with the guild are minimal or null, and right after spending time in a developing guild the player migrates to a GH20 guild is fruitful. With this new system giving even more IL with guild boon (not counting the benefit in statistics) and removing the IL from the campaign boons we will be on the path of total abandonment. This decision will annihilate all small and medium-sized guilds.
    .

    My suggestions are:

    1 - Reduce the item level of the guild boons to around 400 each.
    2 - Add item level again for more relevant Nornandua campaign boons. (a rework on legacy campaigns like SKT, TCA and ToD would be interesting).
    .

    Additional suggestion: campaign boons

    The fact that campaigns can be purchased, is something that I have always found very unnecessary, it is a form of devaluation of the game because it prevents the player from going through much of the game's content, some very good, eliminating the player from one part of the gameplay that is generally responsible for the link with the game through immersive factors.
    .

    Solutions

    1 - Redesign the campaign tokens of the Zen store. Reduce the price in zen of campaign tokens by around 40%.,
    2 - Remove your immediate effect of fully unlocking the campaign, make it similar to the tokens that we manufacture on the campaign pages for alts, reducing the cost of all campaign tasks in half, (attention, reformulate both tokens, zen and of AD, in tasks that ask for odd numbers of coins, so that it is rounded down and not up as it is in the live).
    3 - Add to the Zen version of the token, the removal of campaign limiters, such as weekly currency limit and complete reputation reputation for suitable campaigns.
    4 - limit the amount and types of coins given after using the Zen token. Instead of giving all the coins needed to end the campaign, just give a bonus of coins / secondary items, such as TCA supplements, ToD books, Voniboods for the STK boons and etc., all those coins and secondary items that are necessary for the advance, however, always leaving the main currency to be farmed in the campaign quests.
    .
    .

    conclusion

    These changes make the player even buying the campaign need to play for at least a week, strengthening the player's bond with the game and giving more sentimental relevance to the goodies won, and justifying their additional IL, since even buying the campaign you need some effort to get your boons.

    Finally, I leave the link of an idea I saw regarding Stronghold, which fits with the topic of campaign boons.

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter?fbclid=IwAR0scyMAvcg42nF8GP5XHaAeTmuqUirtUEGUkfehy5f8n8KAmFviYOEIFUY#/discussion/1259047/since-we-cant-upgrade-the-stronghold-system-right-now-heres-an-idea/p1?new=1
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    I recommend getting rid of potions and undead/demon/dinosaur/cultists damage boons. Nobody has ever used these. Put more utility stat boons instead or more of the offense/defense boons
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    I use undead and demon ones on all characters. The Dinosaur one would be more useful if it included dragons. I really don't see a need for them though, because it is picking out 4 specific types of enemies. I agree that general boons might be better.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,201 Arc User

    I recommend getting rid of potions and undead/demon/dinosaur/cultists damage boons. Nobody has ever used these. Put more utility stat boons instead or more of the offense/defense boons

    Healing Potions for sure - if a player needs more healing then they'll put more points into defensive stats so they need less healing... of the 'enemy type' boons - only the devils/demons one is in anyway relevant to the current content.

    On power - as others state, only DPS classes won't need them due to Forte but Healers and Tanks will. With the reduction in stat types (and preferably, the repurposing of Healing Potions) there are more than enough available slots if you want increases to other areas.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 656 Arc User

    Is there anyone against changing some of the tiers of power to different stats?

    If that were to happen, I hope you can up the values on the remaining power boons.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,327 Arc User
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User

    Right now it takes 38 boon points to match what one companion gives... so it would be nice if it was worth more. Something like .5% per boon point and upping the cap to 10 points would be nice. 5% in any contributions isn't a killer, we have companions that do 7.5% and we're suppose to be moving away from companions being the bulk of our strength to our char being the focus. Boons, the experience an adventurer gains along the way should definitely be worth more.

    If they did this, they wouldn't need to have 4 duplicate power boons.
  • holikiir#8597 holikiir Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    Right now, what reduces players motivation to improve their guilds is that the whole stronghold design is outdated. You have to make a tremedous amount of useless missions, repeated for monthes or years, in order to achieve a fully upgraded guild. And it gets worse and worse each new mod, since those contents get more and more outdated. But that's another long talk.

    The point here is that giving extra TIL to open new content is exactly what will make people want to move for already upgraded guilds. Because it's much less effort than having to complete campaigns.
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