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I don't appreciate being blatantly lied to
damnacious
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 354 Arc User
In the post (https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11481153-bonding-runestones-&-companion-changes) by @noworries#8859, it was stated that...
"we didn’t want players to lose a bunch of stats and be worse off than before the change", "With our changes, that base item level of legendary will be 1000 and companions will grant stats at the same rate as other sources of item level" and that "Runestones and Enchantments will go up in item level, and therefore increase the stats they give, both as compensation for the removal of Bondings and to give them a better ratio to other areas of the game such as equipment and Mount Passives."
The Preview server now reveals these statements to be false.
Even after upgrading all relevant companions to Mythic quality and obtaining the 100% companion Bolster bonus, with no other changes, my HP went down from 1,049,000 HP on current Live to 734k HP on Preview. That's greater than a 300k HP nerf, or almost a 33% nerf to my HP.
And that's AFTER upgrading the companions to Mythic...
On Live, i have capped Defense, Deflect, and Critical Avoidance, with almost Best in Slot (BiS) gear for tanking. On the Preview server, i can barely manage to almost hard cap Defense at 90%. As for the rest of the defensive stats, apparently they don't matter, as it's not possible to hard cap even one more of them.
So, where's the focus on ensuring that players aren't "worse off than before the change"? It certainly doesn't seem to be a factor or concern in the reality currently available on Preview... Was it misplaced somewhere?
Then we have 'runestones and enchantments will go up in IL and therefore increase the stats they give'. It would be logical to assume by this statement that the stats on the exact same enchant/runestone would INCREASE with the new changes, wouldn't it?
However, that's not even remotely the case...
Current enchantment stats on Live:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/775540018470060042/784930043549319218/Draconic_Live.png
The same enchantment on Preview:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/775540018470060042/784930080526303252/Draconic_Preview.png
There doesn't appear to be much of an "increase in the stats they give", is there?
Then we have the companions themselves, which given the statement "With our changes, that base item level of legendary will be 1000 and companions will grant stats at the same rate as other sources of item level", you'd reasonably expect an increase in the base stats.
However, again, that's not even remotely the case...
Current Dread Warrior on Live with fully stacked Companion Influence but no companion gear:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/775540018470060042/784930268171075644/Dread_Warrior_Live.png
Dread Warrior on Preview with no companion gear:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/775540018470060042/784935908704649246/Dread_Warrior_Preview.png
So, it certainly seems pretty obvious that the statements made regarding these changes, and specifically, how they will impact upon us, have been completely false, to the point where it certainly appears that it has been intentionally misleading and deceptive.
No player is better off with these changes.
I'm obviously a fool for trusting @noworries#8859 and for believing the statements they make. It certainly appears that it's perfectly acceptable to lie to us, and me in particular, with no apparent care or concern for the truth.
To say i'm utterly and completely disgusted, appalled, disillusioned and angry, is definitely an understatement.
I do not appreciate being lied to, and i certainly expected better, with a more caring, considerate and honest response from the game and its employees. I certainly do not believe that an expectation to be treated honestly, fairly and with a minimum amount of respect would be an unreasonable or unrealistic expectation to hold.
Apparently, i was wrong, and apparently, it appears that I, along with my fellow players, aren't worthy of the basic amount of respect for the game and its employees to actually be honest with us.
How sad...
What i'd like to see is for the promises initially stated to be honored. As it currently stands, all that happened has been one massive nerf to every single aspects of every player. I mean, really? Why nerf the mount bonuses you implemented a couple of weeks ago? Do you mean to say you couldn't even get it right when you released the mount changes and now have to fix it a couple of weeks later, to the point where something like the Stalwart mount equip power has been nerfed almost by 66%?
To say that i'm losing all trust and respect for this game and its employees is a vast understatement.
"we didn’t want players to lose a bunch of stats and be worse off than before the change", "With our changes, that base item level of legendary will be 1000 and companions will grant stats at the same rate as other sources of item level" and that "Runestones and Enchantments will go up in item level, and therefore increase the stats they give, both as compensation for the removal of Bondings and to give them a better ratio to other areas of the game such as equipment and Mount Passives."
The Preview server now reveals these statements to be false.
Even after upgrading all relevant companions to Mythic quality and obtaining the 100% companion Bolster bonus, with no other changes, my HP went down from 1,049,000 HP on current Live to 734k HP on Preview. That's greater than a 300k HP nerf, or almost a 33% nerf to my HP.
And that's AFTER upgrading the companions to Mythic...
On Live, i have capped Defense, Deflect, and Critical Avoidance, with almost Best in Slot (BiS) gear for tanking. On the Preview server, i can barely manage to almost hard cap Defense at 90%. As for the rest of the defensive stats, apparently they don't matter, as it's not possible to hard cap even one more of them.
So, where's the focus on ensuring that players aren't "worse off than before the change"? It certainly doesn't seem to be a factor or concern in the reality currently available on Preview... Was it misplaced somewhere?
Then we have 'runestones and enchantments will go up in IL and therefore increase the stats they give'. It would be logical to assume by this statement that the stats on the exact same enchant/runestone would INCREASE with the new changes, wouldn't it?
However, that's not even remotely the case...
Current enchantment stats on Live:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/775540018470060042/784930043549319218/Draconic_Live.png
The same enchantment on Preview:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/775540018470060042/784930080526303252/Draconic_Preview.png
There doesn't appear to be much of an "increase in the stats they give", is there?
Then we have the companions themselves, which given the statement "With our changes, that base item level of legendary will be 1000 and companions will grant stats at the same rate as other sources of item level", you'd reasonably expect an increase in the base stats.
However, again, that's not even remotely the case...
Current Dread Warrior on Live with fully stacked Companion Influence but no companion gear:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/775540018470060042/784930268171075644/Dread_Warrior_Live.png
Dread Warrior on Preview with no companion gear:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/775540018470060042/784935908704649246/Dread_Warrior_Preview.png
So, it certainly seems pretty obvious that the statements made regarding these changes, and specifically, how they will impact upon us, have been completely false, to the point where it certainly appears that it has been intentionally misleading and deceptive.
No player is better off with these changes.
I'm obviously a fool for trusting @noworries#8859 and for believing the statements they make. It certainly appears that it's perfectly acceptable to lie to us, and me in particular, with no apparent care or concern for the truth.
To say i'm utterly and completely disgusted, appalled, disillusioned and angry, is definitely an understatement.
I do not appreciate being lied to, and i certainly expected better, with a more caring, considerate and honest response from the game and its employees. I certainly do not believe that an expectation to be treated honestly, fairly and with a minimum amount of respect would be an unreasonable or unrealistic expectation to hold.
Apparently, i was wrong, and apparently, it appears that I, along with my fellow players, aren't worthy of the basic amount of respect for the game and its employees to actually be honest with us.
How sad...
What i'd like to see is for the promises initially stated to be honored. As it currently stands, all that happened has been one massive nerf to every single aspects of every player. I mean, really? Why nerf the mount bonuses you implemented a couple of weeks ago? Do you mean to say you couldn't even get it right when you released the mount changes and now have to fix it a couple of weeks later, to the point where something like the Stalwart mount equip power has been nerfed almost by 66%?
To say that i'm losing all trust and respect for this game and its employees is a vast understatement.
Post edited by damnacious on
23
Comments
This is getting really stupid.
If the devs want to make a new game, they should go and make a new game... don't use NW and its loyal player base as guinea pigs. It's not what is being changed that I am against. It's the constant changes themselves. So, now I have to rebuild every toon that I have? Not sure that's going to happen anymore... not with more "changes" on the horizon
They say they want flexibility however this would require reverting to the system prior to mod 16. where we had talent trees. It would at the minimum require feats not being tied to specific skills such as bounding leap for example.
and why did they feel it was nessisary to give us paper weapons? The whole point of weapons is to cause damage so they should increase our power and damage output significantly. instead the set from TRC has been basically made redundant, why did we waste our time and resources into farming that campaign again?
They need to really polish this system thoroughly before it hits live.
ps. this is relatively minor but the graphical changes just look awful especially playing on an HD monitor. The HP bars now stick out like a sore thumb, and look very clunky and distracting.
▂▃▄▅▆▇█▓▒░ Drac ░▒▓█▇▆▅▄▃▂
There is supposed to be an image here, but the hamsters took it.
<div align="center">AKA Draconis of Luskan</div>
Take a backseat boy. Cause now I'm driving. ~ Give it up - Elizabeth Gilies ft. Ariana Grande
RIP Foundry: On that day, when the sky fell away, our world came to an end. ~Lifelight
If you sum up players total stat gain in the new system and compare it to total stat gain per enchant in the live system, I’m 99% sure the new system gives more stats.
This is also true for companions.
If you are to compare live to current preview, you should stop stacking stats at 50% effectiveness and see that “ we didn’t want players to lose a bunch of stats and be worse off than before the change" is active true 🥳
The only problem I see with these changes, is that it will be very expensive for some players who have invested only in “bis” mounts/companions/enchantments.
Cryptic should add a trade-in vendor to help players make these changes a bit less painful.
As you know, I’ve been playing the stat balancing mini-game since m16 release. These changes makes ALL my gear choices irrelevant. Every enchant, runestone, insignia, companion and artifact I have equipped needs to be swapped. The AD/Zen investment to achieve this is no real issue to me, but for players having just reached “endgame” in the old system, this may feel a little unfair.
This is a change I applaud, as we now have to make thought out decisions when building our characters, many enchantments and companions that have been considered trash is now extremely relevant and we can even use older gear without fear of being under stat caps 👍
All in all, 9 out of 10 possible points to cryptic for making changes that players have been asking for. Hopefully the initial forum-whining will turn into constructive feedback over time 🎉
From my perspective, when I am told that there would be an increase to the stats which enchantments and runestones provide - as a means of compensation for the removal of bondings, I certainly do not expect that the only increase is going to be towards Ratings which are completely irrelevant, unnecessary and unused by me, and useless for me. What is worse, is that the actual desired stats of those enchantments, where those enchantments have been specifically selected in order to specifically stack specific Ratings, have been significantly nerfed.
You can't honestly mean to tell me that i should, in any way, be happy with the fact that i've selected an enchantment for it's selection of stats, only to find that more stats are added to Ratings which i specifically do not want, use or need, than to any other stat specifically selected by virtue of that specific enchantment.
There was an opportunity for the developers to be more transparent and accountable with their communication, rather than to be misleading and misrepresentational in their dialogue.
If you were to order a party-sized pepperoni pizza with mozzarella and jalapenos, and the pizza you received had one small piece of pepperoni, one grated strand of mozzarella, a small flake of chilli, but a couple of mushrooms, two small olives and a piece of roast pumpkin, would you be happy that the pizza you received wasn't what you ordered, with the majority of ingredients being those which you did not order or want, and those ingredients you did order being so infinitesimally small as to be pointless? I wouldn't, and it's no different in this situation/context either. This is not factually correct. When comparing my main character on Live versus the exact copied version on Preview, I have lost over 300k HP. There is, literally, no possible way for me to somehow redistribute stats in any method or form which would enable me to regain that loss of 300k+ HP. How, then, is that not a 'loss of a bunch of stats leaving me worse off than before the change'? Should i, instead, be happy and satisfied with the loss of 300k+ HP, knowing that the 300k+ HP worth of stats has been redistributed into Ratings i do not use, have no use for, and are completely irrelevant to me, such as Control Bonus, Outgoing Healing etc.?
Ofcourse they are not the ones playing tanks either now or in future.
> This is not factually correct. When comparing my main character on Live versus the exact copied version on Preview, I have lost over 300k HP. There is, literally, no possible way for me to somehow redistribute stats in any method or form which would enable me to regain that loss of 300k+ HP. How, then, is that not a 'loss of a bunch of stats leaving me worse off than before the change'? Should i, instead, be happy and satisfied with the loss of 300k+ HP, knowing that the 300k+ HP worth of stats has been redistributed into Ratings i do not use, have no use for, and are completely irrelevant to me, such as Control Bonus, Outgoing Healing etc.?
I believe that critter damage reduction makes up for all HP lost.
Unfortunately, history has indicated that this is unlikely to be the case.
My main cause for concern is more based around the manner in which this information has been initially communicated.
I would have much rather preferred being told initially that "enchantments and runestones will receive a very slight increase in their total stats which they provide, yet the majority of stats provided by an enchantment / runestone will actually be contributed to other stats via Combined Rating".
Including 'as compensation for the removal of bondings' etc. was obviously not necessary or relevant, as the minuscule increase in total stats, in no way, makes up for the loss of specific stats from Bondings.
Given how the current Preview system works, it seems more logical to simply delete all enchantments and runestones and replace them all with just one 'enchantment' which solely provides Combined Rating - providing the 'illusion of variety or selection' is really just a very poor joke.
What matters to me & what I plan to find out;
1. Can I stay alive without guzzling down pots, scrolls, stones, etc.?
2. Can I kill that same boss / monster just as easy, more difficult, less than before, or do they one shot me?
3. How much time will I spend on fights?
4. Do my companions & augments help me?
5. Are my alts any good for me?
6. What will I need to buy to be comfortable playing the game?
7. How will this all effect my time, money, and overall enjoyment of the game?
I don't see how a handful of numbers and half-baked formulas are going to answer that here. This game and others has always been about micro upgrades and power creep. The proof is not a concept, but the need to experience it first hand. I plan to run the Preview patch while I am out today, when I get back, I will play the game and make my decisions based on what I will experience.
I was going to just wait on this, but some friends here have informed me this is a lot more than just a companion change. Obviously module 16 just wasn't enough, we are getting another complete overhaul. I recommend everyone wanting to know, should experience it, and don't just depend on math told to you on the player forums and developer blogs.
Same with every other parser.
So I went through 5 different zones on my end game pally to see if there is a difference in the difficulty in the zones.
I removed all 5 companions slots, my vorpal and tenebrous enchantment to avoid random procs as much as possible. I only used my shielding strike at will to kill Tier 1 minions (they are the ones with only 1 red dot with their name and no special abilities). I did not change anything between runs in any of the zones. Here is what I found from killing 12 mobs of tier 1 minions from each zone.
Vallenhas - avg 33.33 attacks to kill
Barovia - avg 28.67 attacks to kill
Chult - avg 26.00 attacks to kill
IWD Bryn Shander - avg 25.67 attacks to kill
Dread Ring - avg 29.33 attacks to kill
Vallenhas is from MOD 18 and Dread Ring is from MOD 2 and it takes almost the same amount of attacks to kill in both zones. This is what I call zone scaling. The enemies damage and HP are based off of your Item level just like it is for your own character. It will become a grind fest to attempt to complete campaigns for people. Zone scaling was attempted in MOD 16 and was fully rejected by the player base. No one wants to go to an old zone and have to slog though it. Just my 2 cents. Please don't do this to the zones.
And this was the response from Noworries.
Live: 1.150.000 HP - 35k ilvl
Preview: 1.100.000 HP - 48k ilvl That is a huge part of the new system. A char can't max out every possible stat anymore. Now you have to focus on 2, maybe 3 stats that are the core of your build. For a tank it will probably be Defense, Deflect and Crit Avoidance, basically the same as before. Only the sources are different.
Try out some stuff on preview, I promise you can max out Defense at 90% and the other stats like Deflect, Crit Avoidance at around 60% with >1mio HP buffed. If you run some content you will notice you are very very tanky.
I did try Dread Ring as well, but the difference I noticed there on preview, I drank down a total of two radiant pots in there and required none all the time I spent in Vallenhas. Then I pulled something off in Vallenhas without any issues, I soloed a Heroic Encounter and ran the shield vault. I forget the name of the female bashee demons in there, but they didn't even bruise me.
Jared Sears comment about this, is from a certain point of view, just like Ben told Luke in Jedi. I don't think he is being deceptive, because he was honest enough to tell us this was coming. I put my purchases on hold and I am glad he gave us the red alert on it. I think what took me and several others by surprise, was the amount of change goes above and beyond what he initially told us. He wasn't oath bound to inform us at all.
So far (because they are not final) this is what I found to be my own perception of the truth;
1. Can I stay alive without guzzling down pots, scrolls, stones, etc.?
Answer is yes, if I am in end game or content close to my level. Otherwise I will be in need of help in low to mid ranged areas, especially dungeons.
2. Can I kill that same boss / monster just as easy, more difficult, less than before, or do they one shot me?
As it stands now, the boss fights are just longer, taking more actions. This may appeal to me, but I think many will find it annoying as they want quick reward.
3. How much time will I spend on fights?
I recorded some fights on both servers and found them to be 3 to 4 times longer.
4. Do my companions & augments help me?
meh... I am not impressed by them. I noticed we no longer need to send them out for training, I really wish I knew this information last month.
5-7. I guess these will be answered in the days ahead.
A friend told me about the changes, and I told him, It is very possible they could alter this just before release and make a huge mess out of it. I don't count on "Previews", demos, or YouTube reviews of any game. This is a funny story why I don't trust them 100%...
A game developer died and was promptly sent to Hell. In but an angel intervened and told the demon he was a borderline case. They agreed the developer should choose his own fate. The angel showed him a vision of Heaven and there was an elderly couple sitting on a bench feeding squirrels. The sun was shining, the air was fresh, the weather was pleasant. The demon called forth a vision of Hell and there was babes in skimpy bikinis playing volleyball on a beach. The sun was hot but the ocean breeze made it bearable. People drank and danced in the warm sand at a party. After that the developer decided, no doubt about it Hell looks like fun! Poof! He was on fire in a lake a lava, he screamed at the demon, "You lied to me! Where is the things you promised me?!" The demon replied, "I didn't lie, that was the beta version.".
The moral here is, don't demonize the developers. In the end, it is our choice to be here.
There are players that have all their stats at the cap in the current NW version. As the devs have stated it is impossible to now have all stats capped means by definition that players "lost stats" and are "worse off".
There is no pussyfooting around this. They said the same thing with the previous mount changes. They just don't have it in them to be honest with us. Says more about them than us.
Players reach an endgame cap -> a major overhaul of the system is made to nerf them to the ground (strugling with mobs in lower areas) -> players reach the caps again -> another overhaul.
Basically this is all there is here, in order to make players spend more on the game in order to reach those same caps that they were before the nerf, which is kinda sad and pathethic but it is what it is and its not the first time happening.
Enjoy
About the hp decrease, it seems some players got a huge nerf there. And until we get all comps and mounts to 100% bolster we will be worse off. I got hit with a 200k decrease. After bringing everything to 100% bolster I am still missing 50-60k hp. I know it wont make that much of a difference but cryptic is begging for money here. Basically if we dont spend at least another 200-300 euros/dollars we wont reach our previous lvl for at least a year. And by that time they will come up with more money begging tricks. Thats why most players are pissed off. They dont respect their customers.
I build DPS Tank as it was before and my groups die hundreds of times? So I am able to build freely. This design is a joke. They want our money. But they tell me behind the scenes I have to spend it on Defense, Deflect and Crit Avoidance.
Damn. Offer a season pass or whatever.
Secondly, I don't want to call anyone out (and I can quote) certain devs saying that us veteran players will stay the same after the changes. I personally went to preview and it cost me 20 mil AD to get my 5 companions up to mythic for the 100% bolster and also to get the active companions to mythic. I am still not where I was and that is already 20 mil AD in. How can you say we are going to be the same if it costs 20 mil AD just for companions?
Lastly, Chris Whiteside said that there will be no class nerfs but the paladin mechanic (paragon) has been nerfed by 30% (was 100% and now it will be 70%), please explain.
Hello, healer here. Today i enter the preview and found that i have 500k+ hp without the hp boon while in the live i have 400k+hp with the boon. So if you are a tank i found it weird.. Other than that, in the live server are you using HP boon? If yes, do you have it on the preview?
Other than that it might be a bug.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
And I doubt Assassin's Enchants will continue to give the 4 offensive stats they are currently giving on Preview.
But definitely fun to test with! And selling like crazy on Live.
The total nerf to Focused Retaliation boon so it is neither Focused or Retaliatory ... well, knew it was coming eventually ... just didn't expect it to be that hard.
At least (unless something changes) there will be a lot of re-roll tokens dropping during WinFest! So plenty of rebuilding/rebooning/restating ahead when these changes go Live.
On the live server in RedQ I had gotten 19 million damage at the end of the match, the undermountain was easy, I barely take damage and I evaporate everything, as I should, I spent so much effort into getting my stats the way I wanted them with a ton of critical severity and armor pen and power and everything a Ranger would want after playing 1000's of hours of other games like POE or Diablo 3 and then reading for days about the meta in Neverwinter, even specifically getting critically severity 5% from my race, and after getting everything as perfect as I could I was doing really well for a fresh 80, my aimed shot could crit for over 100k, my thorns were doing great damage and giving me CDR, my daily and this one shot combine to give me +20% damage for 5 seconds so I have this rotation I do on bosses worked out to take advantage of that 20% window...
I just went to a level 60 enemy in PTR in the Undermountain and the pack freaking killed me.... I would have probably have gone to 95% hp after fighting them before, and killed them with just my roots skill, and they killed me in PTR. I can't believe it I'm going to have to quit the game, I've never taken a harder grind wise or more expensive L in a game in my life. I really hope this isn't the final product, it's cutting my legs off so bad (and I have rank 15 enchants, I filled out my stuff as much as I could) that I would have no idea where to begin to even start to make up for the power loss on my Hunter - Ranger. I was really blown away when the level 60 gnome mob killed me. I wish I could get my money and time back, that was so much to mentally absorb in these last few weeks to get my character fine tuned enough to start rolling through the campaigns, now I'm level 80 with full gear and enchants, a legendary 980il artifact bow, and I can't kill a tiny level 60 gnome.
I love change, and I was at first really excited to hear "combat rework" but I would have liked to have been BUFFED, not nerfed down to 20% of what I was. Extremely Large "F"
Based on how I'm performing now on live at like iL 23k, you would have to boost me to iL 70k to output the same amount of damage. Its unreal how broken my character is on PTR, I won't even play the live game now, whats the point. I'm just going to keep my eye on the updates and hope this april fools joke gets reworked for not only myself but everyone, I honest to god spent over 200 dollars, so I can't imagine how a new person could play this for free now, I can't even play it with 200 dollars worth of gear just to get myself started. I only wanted to spend 100 but the game got really fun so I wanted to make sure I was setup to get through the campaigns and get the gear I wanted, now I'm suited to combat Level 30 mobs.