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Let's discuss powercreep

nooneatzanooneatza Member Posts: 173 Arc User
First of all i would like to say this post is meant more to invoke discussion between players as i'd like to hear different opinions to mine, rather than as feedback for the devs. If it's deemed as "bait" or toxic i kindly ask any moderator to remove it.

Below are two videos (tank pov and dps pov) of a "fooling around" tomm run with 9 dps

(tank pov)
(dps pov)

ToMM is obviously a year old, so no longer supposed to be some crazy newest hard content.

But hear me out:
If the upcoming companion changes are similar to mount changes they will end up giving us more stats and if devs will go through with what they stated on stream a while back (that they will increase player powers instead of nerfing mount powers) It will result in people hitting for way, way more.

M16 was the attempt to make neverwinter a "Serious" mmo where you'd actually have to "dodge the red", tank would have to hold aggro, healer would have to heal etc, it worked for a while.
Lately we are heading back into that pre m16 state where if your gear is slightly above average you plow through everything eyes closed, and if your gear is actually good and you got some skill to back it up the absurdity shown above occurs. Now i'm not saying powercreep shouldn't be a thing, it absolutely should because it's an mmo and time goes on, but the way it's happened in recent months is far too abrupt and it looks like there isn't an end in sight.

short version:: nw was never a "serious" mmo and it doesn't pretend to be, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY OK, combat in this game is fun
but it's getting back into the "clown" mmo state where combat is mostly ignored because once you press one key combat is over, it's quite literally a race to the end chest, and you drop some aoes on the way.

What do you guys think? Am i just thinking too hard about it?


  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,218 Arc User
    Imo, it really depends on what the end result of scaling will look like. The whole point of the companion changes was so they could scale better, plus they have changes coming in M20 in regards to scaling, and at that point ToMM will likely be moved into scaled content, just like LoMM was. With regards to IC, Zariel, and the new dungeon though, I'm sure the enemy stats will be raised significantly which is ultimately supposed to be the counter to power creep.

    IMO, enemy rating should be placed at a level where endgame characters still have to make decision about where to place either offensive or defensive stats. Make us decide between Arpen, Acc, Crit, and CA as opposed to just letting us max all them out and stack more and more power.
  • originalsin#4257 originalsin Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    That ToMM video is a bad example, sure, with a group of uber-experienced Zariel completed, you can run with out healers. Even then, the team was mostly arbiters and stones were used. But a lot of the player base still haven’t completed ToMM.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,218 Arc User

    That ToMM video is a bad example, sure, with a group of uber-experienced Zariel completed, you can run with out healers. Even then, the team was mostly arbiters and stones were used. But a lot of the player base still haven’t completed ToMM.

    The main difficulty with ToMM is just communication and coordination, which is just something that many pugs just don't do.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    One thing is scaling.

    Another thing is stat cap likely will be 100k? for mod 20. The stat cap system lets them rein in any power creep with each mod. Just raise stat caps without adding much better gear and things are under control again.

    Mod 19 probably is a bit out of control since we have both the mount and the companion changes in it, and those have added/will add a lot of stat points.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    There is no magic here.

    Either there is that "capped" scaling, or no meaningful progress. Which is absurd in an MMO.

    Or content will become pathetic once players progress.

    Pick your poison.

    Personally, I'll rather see content become obsolete (due to power creep and the rewards within becoming irrelevant) and then refreshed with new rewards as Epic version for example. Than having capped "scaling" system, and have all the time invested in upgrades feel meaningless due to it bringing the player back to some set maximum stats.
  • nooneatzanooneatza Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    @micky1p00 i may have an option that you didn't think about ! (not entirely mine as it's somewhat inspired from other games in the same genre).

    What if there would be no downscaling at all?

    Meaning there would only be upscaling, as in if you're under let's say stat caps and x power/hp (depending on content obv) you would get upscaled to that exact amount/or less depending on how far below those stats you are, and up to a limit on power/hp. And as soon as you reach the actual stat caps and set power "requirement" you get the cold turkey treatment, no upscaling applied whatsoever

    smol example:
    player #1 at 30k stats and 50k power, he queues lomm, inside he'll get like 50k stats and 100k power
    player #2 at 50k stats and 90k power, he queues lomm, inside he'll get stat capped at 68k and 140k power
    player #3 at 68k stats and 180k power, he queues lomm, inside he'll get stat capped at 68k and 180k power
    (numbers pulled out of my behind just to give a practical example of my idea)

    In my mind this would remove the feeling of "i'm not fighting content, i'm fighting downscaling" that often comes with downscaling. And instead if you're way too weak for said thing you'd get a bump(UP TO A LIMIT), and if you have reached the required stats there will be no more bump for you.
    This would probably go hand in hand with cryptic's mindset that people should access all the content immediately, non-progression oriented players would welcome this change i think, and progression oriented players wouldn't feel neutered when playing so they wouldn't moan.
    Although with my idea the only way of fighting power creep would be the initial revamp of the content and a break from adding ridiculous amounts of stats and 15-20k power with each content release, but i have seen this work in another mmo i've been keeping up with, powercreep isn't rampant there because the content has been revamped once with "very slightly above average" stats in mind at the time, and years later oneshots are still not a thing because they didn't get crazy amounts of stats with every release.

    I'll repeat myself, powercreep should definitely be a thing, just that in neverwinter it's waaay too abrupt currently.

    I'm aware this will probably never come to pass as there would need to be some difficulty adjustments to every mob around the game and it would make the entire concept of item level pretty irrelevant.
  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    Or...have tiered content similar to Tales of old...Random que is no scaling involved, with private being able to choose tiered content of each dungeon.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,518 Arc User
    My only comment is get rid of scaling and also power up the mobs in end game stuff accordingly, so you HAVE to get your stats right with a good balanced group and co-ordination to finish end game stuff.

    Surely that is what an MMO should be all about?
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 612 Arc User
    That is assuming you have anywhere near your current stats after the companion changes. The changes announced to date from the dev's do not come anywhere near making up for the loss of bonding runestones.
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