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Changes to bondings and companions

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  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,036 Arc User

    "Companion ACBs will also get a boost"

    what are "companion acbs"?

    Active Companion Bonus, essentially instead of only getting 100 iL from the Deepcrow's 8k Power, we will now get 400iL
  • tempus86#1158 tempus86 Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    "Companions have had their item level increased. On Live, a companion at legendary rank has 100 Item Level. With our changes, that base item level of legendary will be 1000 and companions will grant stats at the same rate as other sources of item level. On top of that, we will be increasing bolster to where legendary rank adds 10% bolster. Bolster will also directly increase the item level of the companion, which in turn will increase the amount of stats it gives.

    Augment companions will give 85% of their item level in combined rating and the remaining 15% is split across the 3 specific ratings granted by the given companion. Fighting companions will give 85% of their item level in combined rating, the rest of the rating is accounted for by the fact that they do damage."


    So if im reading this right, the only transfer of stats from companion to player is Via the 85% of the summoned companions item level.

    So what exactly is the function of companion gear and runestones? since if the transfer of stats to a player is based off the companions item level and not its stat pool, what is the benefit of companion gear or rune stones on an augment companion?

    on the surface this is a HUGE nerf to augments. 15% combined rating of a 3000level companion is tiny. 450 stat points split over 3 unique stats is definately NOT equal to the damage output of a combat companion.
    And if companion gear and runestone stats are no longer transferred to the player through the augmentation bonus, they are effectively pointless, nerfing augments even more.

    Some Clarification would be nice please
  • manttazzmanttazz Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    I put most of my investment of time into ranking up bonding runes so that all of my toons would at least be "playable" while my main could engage in some end-game content. With this downgrade all my alts will be nearly useless as I will no longer be able to boost their stats by swapping max rank bondings to them and then back to my main. Perhaps that is WAI.

    I don't understand the reasoning behind this change, but it will chase me out of the game as I like playing different roles. With this change my only viable toon for any near end-game content will be my DPS "Sully" and my alts, healers and tanks will be non-viable for anything but legacy campaign content.

    RIP NW on my HD.

    Well played Cryptic, well played.
  • tempus86#1158 tempus86 Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    I also just added up my companions stats, to give an estimate of its current effective itemlevel and combined rating.

    Excluding power and hitpoints, my companion gives me 140,000 stats ( rounded up from 139567)
    which is the equal to 7000 item level. and 17500 combined rating.
    rank 15 bondings and it being an augment triple that to 54,250 combined rating.

    Under the new system, my companion will be worth 850 combined rating, or 1700 IF i upgrade it to mythic with a 100% bolster.
    Thats a 52,250 combined rating deficit or about 60,000 item level deficit.

    Even distributed between enchants, runestones, insignias and even gear, I have no idea how those stats are going to be clawed back.

    we have 18 enchant slots, if they are upped to 500 item level, giving 10k stats each, thats about 7000 item level worth
    we have 15 insignia slots, if they are upped to 500 item level thats another 6300 item level
    we have 6 runestones, if they are upped to 500 item level thats another 2604 item level,

    thats still only 15904 item level clawed back leaving about 44k item level unaccounted for and these examples are not exactly small boosts
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,036 Arc User

    "Companions have had their item level increased. On Live, a companion at legendary rank has 100 Item Level. With our changes, that base item level of legendary will be 1000 and companions will grant stats at the same rate as other sources of item level. On top of that, we will be increasing bolster to where legendary rank adds 10% bolster. Bolster will also directly increase the item level of the companion, which in turn will increase the amount of stats it gives.

    Augment companions will give 85% of their item level in combined rating and the remaining 15% is split across the 3 specific ratings granted by the given companion. Fighting companions will give 85% of their item level in combined rating, the rest of the rating is accounted for by the fact that they do damage."


    So if im reading this right, the only transfer of stats from companion to player is Via the 85% of the summoned companions item level.

    So what exactly is the function of companion gear and runestones? since if the transfer of stats to a player is based off the companions item level and not its stat pool, what is the benefit of companion gear or rune stones on an augment companion?

    on the surface this is a HUGE nerf to augments. 15% combined rating of a 3000level companion is tiny. 450 stat points split over 3 unique stats is definately NOT equal to the damage output of a combat companion.
    And if companion gear and runestone stats are no longer transferred to the player through the augmentation bonus, they are effectively pointless, nerfing augments even more.

    Some Clarification would be nice please

    This is in addition to the 100% transfer of stats that was stated later in the blog. This 85%/15% or damage thing is additional. We will be getting all the companion gear stats, base stats of the companion, the combined ratings mentioned above, and bolster bonus. The 3 stats thing is just an extension of what augments already have.

    Augments and combat companions should be balanced more, as it stands before the changes augments are the only way to go (unless you are a healer/tank or are in low level content where the Xuna and chicken companions can murder stuff but those are getting nerfed).
  • tempus86#1158 tempus86 Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    @arazith07
    Thanks Arazith, missed that bit, i guess its wait for it to hit preview server, but its looking like augments are effectively going to be useless, unless combat companions all hit like a wet noodle.
    I dont mind them being equaly viable, but flipping from one to the other is annoying
  • remfdtremfdt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    Just want to clarify: is this change going to be an IMPROVEMENT, NO NET CHANGE, or a NERF to existing characters?

    In my personal case, with the following condition:
    -using an orange augment companion
    -3 R15 bonding runestones, with 1010 ilvl companion gear and R12-R15 stat runestones
    -15% bolster 5 orange companions in that class
    -60.5% companion influence from R15 dark enchants in utility slots, player stats, artifacts, insignias, etc.

    Will my total stats INCREASE, STAY THE SAME, or DECREASE after the change? Not ilvl, STATS- stats determine the character viability, not ilvl.

    At this point, I do not see anything in the changes you have listed that is actually BETTER for players, unless the result of the changes is NO NET CHANGE or better. In fact, it sounds like an incredibly large NERF, and an effort to grab more cash.

    Not that it should matter, but I've been playing since well before bonding runestones were first added, and I'm quite confident I fall into the "whale" category for zen purchases, so I think I'm justified saying that I'll feel seriously betrayed if you pull another mod6/mod16 fiasco.

    current values w/ companion active:
    ilvl 35842
    hp 729014
    total stats: 903525

    current values w/o companion active:
    ilvl 30264
    hp 6787767
    total stats: 407578

    Companion stat total:
    192292

    I.e. if you subtract the without companion stats from with companion, and then subtract the companion stat total, it result6s in about 303655 stats added from bondings, bolster, and companion influence. Will the increases in enchants balance that out? With 15 enchantment slots, each would have to go up an average of 20k stats; i.e. a R15 radiant would need to go from 2400 power to 22400 power...
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 959 Arc User

    The change is coming regardless of how much anyone dislikes it. Either you play the game or you don't. NONE of us know how this actually works (I know history of other things does not make it look good). Reality is maybe 5 out of 500 companions are useful in game. Hopefully with this change we will get more variety in our active companions.

    I know console markets differ from PC but 2.6 million AD (hopefully it doesn't go down) per R15 seems reasonable, provided it is enough to buy your way back to the same stats.

    As far as it being a "money grab" I really don't care. I put enough time into this game to throw a few dollars at it.

    This is simply not true as "useful companion" is totally subjective. There are uses outside of pure stat issues. Not everyone is a numbers chaser or BiS chaser. I have 30 toons and all of them have a different main companion and all of them have completely different companion stables. Keep in mind many people also can't get, due to financial/time issues, what the elite consider the best companions. And all of my main toons are over 30KIL and meet or surpass optimal stats with non augment companions and without level 20 guild boons. It just comes down to how you shuffle stuff around per character. And sadly how much you spend.

    My worries is that there will be no way for me to catch up to where I am now if my stats dive after the update. That beings said, so far the devs are saying we won't see a stat dive/nerf. Only time will tell tho.

    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • sillystupidsimonsillystupidsimon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 26 Arc User
    Bolster, currently, has no effect with an augment summoned. It helps fighter companions in combat. So my 1 brain cell that still exists queries what bolster will mean. Stats transfer via bolster from the summoned companion, augment or not, or a combined rating of IL that the companion has along with the bolster from various other unsummoned companions that are in the same type category.

    It might help if we had this on preview to test, preferably before it gets thrown at us in a badly cobbled youtube by a desperate attention grabber
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,898 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    I have 25 legendary companions in all categories and still think somehow I will manage to be nerfed : D even after upgrading all of them to mystic ...

    Are all of these changes supposed to be the devs knee jerk reaction to xuna and chicken companions being overpowered?
    are all combat companions going to be over powered now or all useless ..cause of these changes

    some companions flat out have better powers/ combos compared to each other regardless.. are all companion powers being reworked to similar magnitudes as well now to make them equality as desirable ...?
  • erikanudanerikanudan Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    If you already predicted a Companion System Change(CSC) after the Mount System Change(MSC) ... then you know how to look forward!

    After reading all 3 pages (so far) of comments on these responses to the new Blog ... I will gently point out a few topics that were never covered openly.

    1) When the MSC was introduced with Collars that could be upgraded (expensively!) to Mythic for Mythic Mounts in stable, there was NO mention of being able to do the same for Companion Gear. My guess is that they will start it slowly like they did with Insignia and you can start finding Legendary Companion pieces in the next few lockboxes (another obvious cash grab), and then introduce being able to upgrade those in a few MODS once they have figured out how to balance them for increased Companion stats/ilvl/etc. Or maybe/hopefully craft them with a future update.

    2) They aren't going to change or lower the AD exchange rate table they posted for Bonding Runestones. Why you might ask? Because it points to the biggest thing they have been trying the hardest to hide!
    A) They would rather let you choose if you would like to exchange it for an ENCH/RUNE you might WANT/NEED after the changes vs. choosing an AD exchange for it.
    B) Everyone has seen it coming and predicting it, and just looking at the ADZ backlog ... you can almost SMELL them waiting to pull the trigger and up ADZ to 1kAD/1Z (if not 1500AD/1Z) just to clear the backlog and reset the queues! I expect right before WINFEST starts. And that right there would cut any 'thought profit' out of trading Bonding for AD, since you'd maybe get 2/3 or 1/2 of the ZEN ... assuming you could cut the line and trade those AD for Zen immediately, instead of a 5 month backlog! And also encourage people to buy ZEN vs. trade for it at a newly considered loss of AD.
    C) If/When they increase exchange rate for Z ... maybe changing Bonding redemptions from AD to whatever current Z exchange rate is, might make a few non-bots happier by not having to wait months. Say they increase ADZ to 1k/Z ... just convert the table. If it's worth less than 1k, you get AD ... otherwise you can choose AD or ZEN, or always the newly upgraded ENCH/RUNE stones. Scaling of course to whatever new exchange rate they choose.

    3) And lastly, I expect there to also be a new way to refine Runestones beyond R15 to R16 (eventually). Because why just upgrade companions and NOT include some means to upgrade either their gear or their runestones? Just Bolster? We'll all see how their 'plan' pans forward!

    4) And other thoughts I'm keeping ... for now!

    TY if you read thru all of that! ... Gonna go play for awhile and see what happens!

    Elsill Killya - Neverguild

    PS. Neverwinter is the BEST drinking MMORPG ever!
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,036 Arc User

    I have several questions:
    1- What will happen to the Dark Enchantments? Will they get a new stat? If yes, which stat will they give? Or will they be removed and we will be able of trading them for another enchantment or AD? If so, for how much AD?
    2- What will happen to the Dominance Insignias? Will they get a new stat? If yes, which stat will they give? Or will they be removed and we will be able of trading them for another insignia or AD? If so, for how much AD?
    3- What will happen to the Companion Influence boons?
    4- What will happen to the Charisma Ability Score?
    5- How much will cost to upgrade the companions to mythic in AD? And how much in companion upgrade tokens?
    6- Will the Empowered Runestones be fixed and give HP on defensive slots as they are supposed to? If not, why not? Shouldn't they give another stat then?
    7- About the 15% on the 3 specific stats of the augment companions that give HP, like the Rat Pup and the Black Dragon Ioun Stone, will they give us extra HP? If not, why not? Shouldn't they give another stat then?
    8- When will this changes be implemented in the live servers?

    And a suggestion: PLEASE MAKE THE BOLSTER BE UNIVERSAL TO ALL COMPANIONS AND NOT DIVIDED BY CATEGORIES.
    I don't want the meta to shift and I have to upgrade another 5 companions to mythic to have my bolster back.
    PLEASE CRYPTIC, do not make us have to expend a fortune putting weak companions with useless bonuses just to have a category bolster.

    1. Yes, they don't know yet. There is still 2-3 weeks of development left before this hits preview. We will likely be able to trade stuff like in M16 when they did remove stats.
    2-4 same as above
    5. We don't know, values will likely change. My guess would 1.5mil or 200 tokens.
    6. Empowered Runestones were never meant to give players HP as noted in their tooltips. It is solely for the companion itself.
    7. This will likely work the same as augments that have HP as a part of their enhancement bonus do now.
    8. Has not been announced, we won't even get this on preview until December.
  • gor1llaf1stgor1llaf1st Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    arazith07 said:

    Yes, go ahead, redo everything that works well. You know how. Instead of adding an interesting storyline, get people to just upgrade 100 companions. Well done, keep it up. Your decisions simply defy my mind.

    Scaling isn't working well in part because of bondings, hence why they are making changes, so they can scale us better. They are trying to bake the bondings into the companions so their iL ratios will work better. Is it the best way to do that...who knows, do we end up with a nerf...could be, but we just don't have all the info yet. But they put their reasoning into the dev blog.
    more like forcing end game players to play with newbs isnt working well and they refuse to scale up older content with better rewards for end game players.... that is the problem, not the bondings, not %dmg, its their view on the whole thing. City of Heroes had an interesting system where you could sidekick/scale up a newb friend to tag along with whatever you were doing.

  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,036 Arc User

    arazith07 said:

    Yes, go ahead, redo everything that works well. You know how. Instead of adding an interesting storyline, get people to just upgrade 100 companions. Well done, keep it up. Your decisions simply defy my mind.

    Scaling isn't working well in part because of bondings, hence why they are making changes, so they can scale us better. They are trying to bake the bondings into the companions so their iL ratios will work better. Is it the best way to do that...who knows, do we end up with a nerf...could be, but we just don't have all the info yet. But they put their reasoning into the dev blog.
    more like forcing end game players to play with newbs isnt working well and they refuse to scale up older content with better rewards for end game players.... that is the problem, not the bondings, not %dmg, its their view on the whole thing

    New players being left on their own caused dungeon queues that would never start...which is really bad for the health of a MMO. Even without dungeons, there are still events that are open to a variety of levels that would need scaling. Even if they scaled players up, they want to be able to do it properly and not end up like in M16 where a level 1-79 player could outdps endgame players.

    Reward rework for dungeons is coming later btw.
  • drago#3250 drago Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    You do it again. In every single of the last Updates you hit the Paladin hardest.
    Tactical destroyed for Paladin Tank.
    Incoming and Outgoing Healing Companion Passives destroyed for Tank and Healer.
    Now you destroy Companion Influence (Charisma) what Paladin is best in.
    Now we switched to Dark Enchantment and you destroy it again.

    ???????
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited November 2020

    This is the best drinking game if by that you mean best to push you towards alcoholism @erikanudan



    Anyways I'm still waiting for a response.



    If I move from a beast type companion to a fighter, does that mean I need to make all new mythical fighter comps?



    If so, please let me know so I know that I don't have to give you a darn penny this black Friday. I'd recommend pushing early version to preview so people know what they're getting into.



    As a business model, your big-wigs should know that investing in something you know nothing about is a risk. No one will take that risk in a damn game

    we already know what we are getting into, it will be a system similar to the one we got with the mounts rework...

    "... we will be increasing bolster to where legendary rank adds 10% bolster. Bolster will also directly increase the item level of the companion, which in turn will increase the amount of stats it gives."

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