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GAME BROKEN WITH NO HEALS ON 80+ CONTENT

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  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User


    No, I am not able to run around and do more stuff. I have to choose when I toss heals carefully based on how much divinity I have. Not only that, the healing is sub-par. I'm still doing what I did before it's just far less effective and I have to be more selective as to whom to heal. What other options are there? Switching to soothe and trying to properly aim at moving players hoping you heal the intended target? Is this an FPS now? I'd rather focus on being able to heal more frequently than do anything else -- not DPS, not buff (that was a few mods ago, which was real fun).


    You might be surprised at how well using the at-will options like Soothe work. Some SW healers have been using it extremely effectively since M16. Some clerics are finding it very useful now. If you're not going to change anything, then yes, you're going to struggle. The game has changed. You need to change with it.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,153 Arc User


    You might be surprised at how well using the at-will options like Soothe work. Some SW healers have been using it extremely effectively since M16. Some clerics are finding it very useful now. If you're not going to change anything, then yes, you're going to struggle. The game has changed. You need to change with it.

    No, we do not need to change with the terrible ideas that have been injected into the game. The dev team needs to just undo their mistake and work on fixing things that actually are broken instead of those that aren't. We say what the game needs. They don't.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,035 Arc User


    You might be surprised at how well using the at-will options like Soothe work. Some SW healers have been using it extremely effectively since M16. Some clerics are finding it very useful now. If you're not going to change anything, then yes, you're going to struggle. The game has changed. You need to change with it.

    No, we do not need to change with the terrible ideas that have been injected into the game. The dev team needs to just undo their mistake and work on fixing things that actually are broken instead of those that aren't. We say what the game needs. They don't.
    Healing was broken though. You may not think so, but when average groups can bypass mechanics or only need 1 healer in the hardest of trials...something is overpowered. When it is more efficient in both the heal itself and in managing divinity to use an AOE heal than a single target one, causing the ST heal to never be used, something is broken.
  • baalhashmalbaalhashmal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 65 Arc User


    No, I am not able to run around and do more stuff. I have to choose when I toss heals carefully based on how much divinity I have. Not only that, the healing is sub-par. I'm still doing what I did before it's just far less effective and I have to be more selective as to whom to heal. What other options are there? Switching to soothe and trying to properly aim at moving players hoping you heal the intended target? Is this an FPS now? I'd rather focus on being able to heal more frequently than do anything else -- not DPS, not buff (that was a few mods ago, which was real fun).


    You might be surprised at how well using the at-will options like Soothe work. Some SW healers have been using it extremely effectively since M16. Some clerics are finding it very useful now. If you're not going to change anything, then yes, you're going to struggle. The game has changed. You need to change with it.
    I have changed with the game. I've been playing actively for 7 years.

    A few weeks before the mod dropped I was using the soothe at-will including the feat to empower it when a divinity encounter has been cast as a means to get used to the change. I even used the lock-on feature to help simplify it.

    Yes, the magnitude was increased in this new mod. However, it's not fun. Trying to heal a specific character amidst a sea of clutter (enemies, other party members, and such) isn't fun at all.

    If they could improve it such that the member with the least amount health took precedence, that could be an improvement.

    Cleric: Marquis Elmdore - Current Main <3
    Wizard: Iamblichus
    Fighter: Anna the Titan
    Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja
    Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia
    Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid


    Guild: She Looked Level 18.
    Alliance: Imperium
  • fademist#5406 fademist Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    all complain for the heal changes but in reality ic tomm can be done with that if all do their part...
  • baalhashmalbaalhashmal Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 65 Arc User

    all complain for the heal changes but in reality ic tomm can be done with that if all do their part...

    No one is saying you can't do the content. That's not the point.

    Cleric: Marquis Elmdore - Current Main <3
    Wizard: Iamblichus
    Fighter: Anna the Titan
    Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja
    Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia
    Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid


    Guild: She Looked Level 18.
    Alliance: Imperium
  • shugenshashugensha Member Posts: 139 Arc User
    arazith07 said:


    You might be surprised at how well using the at-will options like Soothe work. Some SW healers have been using it extremely effectively since M16. Some clerics are finding it very useful now. If you're not going to change anything, then yes, you're going to struggle. The game has changed. You need to change with it.

    No, we do not need to change with the terrible ideas that have been injected into the game. The dev team needs to just undo their mistake and work on fixing things that actually are broken instead of those that aren't. We say what the game needs. They don't.
    Healing was broken though. You may not think so, but when average groups can bypass mechanics or only need 1 healer in the hardest of trials...something is overpowered. When it is more efficient in both the heal itself and in managing divinity to use an AOE heal than a single target one, causing the ST heal to never be used, something is broken.
    I beg to differ, the healing wasn't "broken", was the blue bar from the pallys. Tomm? Only a pallyheal. The new trial was uploaded by being completed using only one pallyheal (pre heal nerf). Want to talk about massive heals? The DC.
    And even tho i see both classes screaming they hate the changes, they don't realize some things:
    1) They are still in a better place than the Soulweaver.
    2) They need to "re learn" little.
    3) Putting the nerf on one side, the biggest change they get is stop being babysitter.

    Now, for the rest:
    I friking hate the nerf, i friking hate the Soulweaver rework (dmg, heal, buffs, feats and class features are a bad joke), but this changes will force everyone to start playing smart and not yolo even if they choose not to bring a healer for dungeons or trials.
    You can like it or not ( i sure don't), but it's THEIR game and they can do with it whatever they want. They want to kill the game? Let them do it. But until they finish the butchering, i will stay true to my Soulweaver as long as the class exist on the game. Put way to much time and effort on it to say "ugh, they make it harder to use it, i will go with other thing until they fix it". If you are that mad to quit your class you put so much effort on just cuz you need to try harder to make the devs realize how bad was it, then just leave the god damn game. Stop spending money. Like it or not, healers AIN'T that much needed, all that the tanks and dps needs are potion/stones, scrolls and the potion boons to do ALMOST any content without a healer.
    And the "buffs" on heals will take a time, right now they want to make money on the scrolls and stones.

    Apollogize if it was too blunt.
    Soulweaver: The Lovely Red

  • fademist#5406 fademist Member Posts: 55 Arc User

    all complain for the heal changes but in reality ic tomm can be done with that if all do their part...

    No one is saying you can't do the content. That's not the point.
    hope the up on heal magnitudes that will be on today is a way to stop that argue about nerfing ...
    the point is that ppl got used of ovrhealing and didnt give a dime about avoiding dmg etc ...thats one part of the problem :)
  • paulamyo#4926 paulamyo Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    That reasoning saying: "ToMM and Zariel can be done with one healer, so healing is overpowered" is ridicolous.

    If I organize a run with only 4 DPSs for ToMM and we beat it, are you saying ALL DPSs are overpowered and they should be nerfed into oblivion as healers just got?

  • fademist#5406 fademist Member Posts: 55 Arc User

    That reasoning saying: "ToMM and Zariel can be done with one healer, so healing is overpowered" is ridicolous.

    If I organize a run with only 4 DPSs for ToMM and we beat it, are you saying ALL DPSs are overpowered and they should be nerfed into oblivion as healers just got?

    lol who said that...
  • jackhyde#1057 jackhyde Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    > @baalhashmal said:
    > I find it interesting they also added scroll of life to the tarmalude trade bar shop. Hmm. As if though they expect tons of deaths now.

    Those have always been there
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited July 2020

    all complain for the heal changes but in reality ic tomm can be done with that if all do their part...

    No one is saying you can't do the content. That's not the point.
    hope the up on heal magnitudes that will be on today is a way to stop that argue about nerfing ...
    the point is that ppl got used of ovrhealing and didnt give a dime about avoiding dmg etc ...thats one part of the problem :)
    I also used to have that way of thinking and even though i do agree that there are lazy people you do also have to realize that there are people who play with 300+ ping right? so standing in red zone is kinda not their fault...

    And the only people who got used to overheal were clerics...
    Paladins were only broken after a cetain point or should i say ammount of power/crit, because new players without those were strugling to shield/heal...
    And warlocks were nerver good at healing but at least they had decent, yeah decent buffs/debuffs (which had a massive nerf in mod 19)


    And the 25,30,50,20 magnitude increase in healing encounters won't do HAMSTER at least for the warlock, tab mechanic will still be bugged and the aim assist we have is HAMSTER, but as i said give them 2 weeks and they will start making changes again because this game is not sustained by end gamers and these changes were extremely bad for new players who were already strugling befre mod 19
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,626 Arc User

    I have a question for anyone who says that they ruined healing. How exactly is it ruined? Are the new mechanics less enjoyable or is it the fact that you dont feel useful enough?



    I dont play any healing class but the channel divinity changes do seem like you could be running around more and doing stuff instead of channeling. On the other hand when I was getting crit healed for 54k HP by 26k IL cleric in Lomm it was quite ridiculous.

    OMG! Stupid CW! Stop! Pushing! the! Damn! Mobs! I! Can't! Keep! Up! MY! DPS!

    Does that answer your question?
  • marvyn#9793 marvyn Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    I play cleric and have fairly decent gear - about 26.5k.

    I've done a couple of trials and two of the easier dungeons in random queues. I don't really like the changes at all.


    I can appreciate that perhaps some nerfs were needed to healing, but rather than fine-tuning with a screwdriver, the devs have got a mallet out.

    I'm only going to repeat what others have said:

    - Marking the tank (or other player) with the tab target thing is awkward and clunky. It keeps disappearing from the player, obscured by health bars, mobs etc., so you don't know if it's still up - and waste time checking to see that it is.

    - Holding the tab for its full duration to get the heal + AoE seems a very long time to stand there casting. Also the AoE appears to have a very small radius, which again is a penalty if you've started casting to heal tank+group and the tank has moved and the spell no longer hits the group.

    - Have a different button to mark a target and display in the UI which player it is active on. Also stop sharing buttons like Tab to have multiple effects, since you can accidentally shift the marked player by starting to cast, then having to move/dodge etc. and then the marked player has been switched.

    - The Soothe heal is awkward to target. Try getting the player you want in Svardborg which is a malestrom of mobs and players all over the place. Virtually impossible.

    - The AoE /Bastion nerf to share the healing power between players is too punishing. In particular, what it should do, is share the heal only amongst those players that have a health deficit. At the moment, it appears to share the heal between 5 players even if only one of them needs healing, whereas a fairer implementation would be for it to see 4 people don't need healing, only 1 does, and apply the full effect to the 1 person that needs the heal.

    - It's been years, but STILL in trials with ten players, your UI only shows 5 players in your group, so you can't easily see what's going on without having all health bars showing. Come on...



    Targeted heals / single player heals you have to direct etc. are totally fine in games in which you have a UI in which you can mouseover the player name to get the right player. It doesn't really work in Neverwinter, because you have to target the live environment in which players are moving around, dodging etc.

    I just feel as though the changes could have been more moderate. The mechanics changes along with the nerf to companion outgoing healing and tactical incoming healing. crit severity etc. -> it's too much in one pass.

    The fundamental problem is that people expect their characters to go forward and progress in MMORPGs. And these changes are simply regressive.
  • martee7martee7 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    AoE healing for cleric doesn't exist any more. Bastion recover ~15% hp on dps players but on tank... that's all about divinity managment. The only one healing is on TAB but i must switch mark more and more (and another supprise. I can't see it by most of the time). I want playing on neverwinter but yesterday i thought i played on counter strike. It was funny. For few minutes. Do you know how fast and agile the dps is with 20% hp?

    Previous healing system worked quite well so I can't imagine who came up with such a crazy idea like healing rebuild.

    Devs explained that healing for high end players is too easy. Really? Anyone of them trying it in random party on LoMM for example? Besides, that's the point of upgrading our equipment. What is the sense of improvements if you still can't keep your team alive. What is next? DPS? Weaker players don't have that high dps so let's bring everything to an equal level.

    I hope this wave of criticism will mobilize Devs for action. Only hope. Not sure, because i play in this game since begining and nothing will surprise me anymore.

    p.s. Smells potato english. I know. ;)
  • oldtimer#7525 oldtimer Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    Bastion - 200 to 300k non-crit, 500 to 800k+ crit AoE Heal every 2 seconds
    Healing Word - 60 to 100k non-crit, 150 to 250k crit permanent Heal over Time on everyone
    Intercession - 300 to 600k non-crit, 800k to 1.6 mil crit single target burst Heal every 25 secs but almost never used as it wasn't needed
    Divinity percentage - no less than 90-100% at all times

    These are the numbers i was seeing when i last played my Devout spec in ToMM with about 140-145k Power before combat ( purple mount power/insignias and rank 13 Radiants ). Healers, all 3 classes, were absurdly over powered and needed to be nerfed hard/reworked a long time ago. Anyone that played a healer in end game, including the vast majority of healers that never even played or built their characters efficiently knew this.

    If you believe that the nerfs/mechanics changes were too much ( magnitudes might need a slight adjustment upwards which is already happening today and may happen again in the near future ) then you are severely underestimating the performance gap between a properly built,geared and played healer and the average *healer in paragon only* pug healer. My personal opinion is the healer play styles now are worse in terms of flow/ feel but are much closer to where they need to be power level wise.
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    edited July 2020


    If you believe that the nerfs/mechanics changes were too much ( magnitudes might need a slight adjustment upwards which is already happening today and may happen again in the near future ) then you are severely underestimating the performance gap between a properly built,geared and played healer and the average *healer in paragon only* pug healer.

    Yes, and it ended up exactly as I expected - the recreational healers were removed from the game. The problem is that they made the majority of recreational runs possible, so now the only ones that can successfully run the group content are from the top-end spectrum.

    You can argue that in that area is everything spot on, the problem however stays: the absolute top is now the only players that can actually run dungeons and trials.

    To fix the excessive power-creep they sacrificed all low and mid range players. Yes, the top end does not have everything so easy any more, but they sacrificed low and mid range players. That is the wrong part of the fix.

    And they choose this harsh hit over revision of the power formula. That is... whatever...
  • jeisonriverx#0744 jeisonriverx Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    Ayudé a mucha gente a hacer su recolección de diamantes, yo solo como curandero en muchos RTQ, pero ahora deben pagar por el mal trato que le dieron los jugadores a los curanderos cuando decian: ¿ESTE PORQUE NO HACE DAÑO.? ¿ESTE CURANDERO NO TRABAJA.? En muchas ocaciones los curanderos fueron humillados y hasta expulsados de las partidas, de los jugadores que meten dinero en el juego quienes son los que mas mal trato le dan a los curanderos.

    Ahora que han deseado que los curanderos hagan daño, pues el curandero ya no estara pendiente de las barras de salud, si no que estara haciendo un daño insignificante e innecesario, todo por culpa de quienes quieren ser DPS/Healer con el Paragon Devout.
  • marvyn#9793 marvyn Member Posts: 50 Arc User

    Bastion - 200 to 300k non-crit, 500 to 800k+ crit AoE Heal every 2 seconds
    Healing Word - 60 to 100k non-crit, 150 to 250k crit permanent Heal over Time on everyone
    Intercession - 300 to 600k non-crit, 800k to 1.6 mil crit single target burst Heal every 25 secs but almost never used as it wasn't needed
    Divinity percentage - no less than 90-100% at all times

    I'd be interested to know what stats you had to get figures this high, since using Janne's website to recalculate the ranges, with 180k power, 216k crit, 125k severity, 60% outgoing and 50% incoming bonuses and Lionheart weapons, it suggests Bastion of Health would crit heal for 300 to 372k.

    Understand there's probably some other adjustments e.g. Overflowing Spirit giving a boost, but I still think 500k to 800k crit for Bastion seems a bit on the high side and if these are the figures you were getting, maybe the issue was scaling for the top 0.5% of the healer population?
  • drigon#5157 drigon Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    Is at will sooth sucking down divinity ????
    Since aoe is trash on a raid, I tried just ramdomly aiming and spaming at will sooth, every two uses my divinity ticked down
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited July 2020


    I'd be interested to know what stats you had to get figures this high, since using Janne's website to recalculate the ranges, with 180k power, 216k crit, 125k severity, 60% outgoing and 50% incoming bonuses and Lionheart weapons, it suggests Bastion of Health would crit heal for 300 to 372k.

    Understand there's probably some other adjustments e.g. Overflowing Spirit giving a boost, but I still think 500k to 800k crit for Bastion seems a bit on the high side and if these are the figures you were getting, maybe the issue was scaling for the top 0.5% of the healer population?

    His figures are were (since this refers to before M19) rather accurate for mid-high geared clerics. I was hitting 800k Bastions before I even got to 50% OGH or LH weapons. With max OGH, LH, and exhaltation, I could even hit over a mil. And I only run about 165k power. To be really honest, for anything short of a max stack annihilation ball, I didn't even need crit heals anymore. My non-crits were in the 300-400k+ range.
  • palosanto#5610 palosanto Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    > @kythelion#3210 said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > You might be surprised at how well using the at-will options like Soothe work. Some SW healers have been using it extremely effectively since M16. Some clerics are finding it very useful now. If you're not going to change anything, then yes, you're going to struggle. The game has changed. You need to change with it.

    Hello undercover dev, how are you? :D
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    That's pretty funny. Especially since I very vocally don't *like* the changes either. But I understand why they were made and that it's on us to adapt or move on.
  • shugenshashugensha Member Posts: 139 Arc User
    rev#7881 said:

    all complain for the heal changes but in reality ic tomm can be done with that if all do their part...

    No one is saying you can't do the content. That's not the point.
    hope the up on heal magnitudes that will be on today is a way to stop that argue about nerfing ...
    the point is that ppl got used of ovrhealing and didnt give a dime about avoiding dmg etc ...thats one part of the problem :)
    I also used to have that way of thinking and even though i do agree that there are lazy people you do also have to realize that there are people who play with 300+ ping right? so standing in red zone is kinda not their fault...

    And the only people who got used to overheal were clerics...
    Paladins were only broken after a cetain point or should i say ammount of power/crit, because new players without those were strugling to shield/heal...
    And warlocks were nerver good at healing but at least they had decent, yeah decent buffs/debuffs (which had a massive nerf in mod 19)


    And the 25,30,50,20 magnitude increase in healing encounters won't do HAMSTER at least for the warlock, tab mechanic will still be bugged and the aim assist we have is HAMSTER, but as i said give them 2 weeks and they will start making changes again because this game is not sustained by end gamers and these changes were extremely bad for new players who were already strugling befre mod 19
    Im 100% with you. Also, i found out a lazy build that works most of the times if you are a soulweaver. Revitalize + Infernal Barrier + Feypact.
    Spam Infernal Barrier now and then (even out of combat), revitalize when you want.. And if you want to help with "dps" slot BoVa and give it to one of them.
    Since we lost our core powers and feats, at least this way we can feel "usefull"... As long the team KNOW how to play their classes. The tab is kinda tricky tho, don't know the rest but i have a 1-2 seconds delay with that power, so i try to keep them alive without it (more challenging tbh).
    Soulweaver: The Lovely Red

  • palosanto#5610 palosanto Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    I have a cleric, tried a new build yesterday with soothe, and no, no, it s just trash unless, you allow us to use addons, otherwise it s stressful and usless.

    Been palying wow healer druid for many years and no one was healing without addon, it s insane to target manualy the player you wish to heal, when you also have incoming dmg,mark the target which you don t see most of the times cause of the health bars but you all know that.

    If u want to make changes add new fashion, new race look features new campaigns like u just did and it s wonderful, with the treasure maps, well done, but leave the classes workable if players are happy with it.
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited July 2020

    Bastion - 200 to 300k non-crit, 500 to 800k+ crit AoE Heal every 2 seconds
    Healing Word - 60 to 100k non-crit, 150 to 250k crit permanent Heal over Time on everyone
    Intercession - 300 to 600k non-crit, 800k to 1.6 mil crit single target burst Heal every 25 secs but almost never used as it wasn't needed
    Divinity percentage - no less than 90-100% at all times

    I'd be interested to know what stats you had to get figures this high, since using Janne's website to recalculate the ranges, with 180k power, 216k crit, 125k severity, 60% outgoing and 50% incoming bonuses and Lionheart weapons, it suggests Bastion of Health would crit heal for 300 to 372k.

    Understand there's probably some other adjustments e.g. Overflowing Spirit giving a boost, but I still think 500k to 800k crit for Bastion seems a bit on the high side and if these are the figures you were getting, maybe the issue was scaling for the top 0.5% of the healer population?
    This was normal for mid to end game clerics, but what they don't tell you is that cleric was the only class that was broken in terms of healing,

    The sate of end game in mod 18 was, clerics broken at healing but not needed, paladins completly broken with shields and warlocks with decent heals/buffs/debuffs.

    And warlocks complained that the healings/buffs/debuffs weren't enough to contend with the other 2 classes so much that the devs decided to HAMSTER everyone in general
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