@joebot#9387 First, I apologize for returning on the subject of the melee warden, this weekend I assembled a crew of other classes and Ran iC . The results on compare even though there’s a lot of variables that aren’t controllable, are that maybe the Warden, (please don’t kill me for saying this wardens lol) may not need it’s 5%s back to to skirmishers gambit and focused..As much as I hate to say that..What it actually needs is for It’s daily call of the storm( utilizing Enhanced conductivity) to only cost 25% of you ap points instead of 50% . On the iC runs during the times call of the storm was down I would start falling behind fairly quickly but when I used it several times in a row I could Start to close the gap fairly quickly. Even though the other classes still have a 15 to 30 mil gap on me at the end of the dungeons,if I was able to use that daily more often without have to drop power/buffs/dmg to slot means of AP gain, the gap between the Warden and other classes will be much smaller. Also to stance switcher wardens and ranged wardens, even though you don’t really see the lightning animations from call of the storm/enhanced conductivity, watching the dmg log clearly shows this daily and feat is giving the dmg to Ranged encounters and at wills too. So to revise Warden suggestions if you guys could make the AP cost of call of the storm only 25% instead of 50% I think this would be a great first step and see where it goes from there.
0
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
The entire point of the Ranger class is that it uses both melee and ranged powers. Any approach that emphasizes one over the other, much less excludes one, is therefore wrong.
If that's too hard to design then ditch the melee powers, turn the offhand into a quiver and call it a ranged/archer class. Rogues already exist; melee-oriented Rangers are pointless.
@joebot#9387 First, I apologize for returning on the subject of the melee warden, this weekend I assembled a crew of other classes and Ran iC . The results on compare even though there’s a lot of variables that aren’t controllable, are that maybe the Warden, (please don’t kill me for saying this wardens lol) may not need it’s 5%s back to to skirmishers gambit and focused..As much as I hate to say that..What it actually needs is for It’s daily call of the storm( utilizing Enhanced conductivity) to only cost 25% of you ap points instead of 50% . On the iC runs during the times call of the storm was down I would start falling behind fairly quickly but when I used it several times in a row I could Start to close the gap fairly quickly. Even though the other classes still have a 15 to 30 mil gap on me at the end of the dungeons,if I was able to use that daily more often without have to drop power/buffs/dmg to slot means of AP gain, the gap between the Warden and other classes will be much smaller. Also to stance switcher wardens and ranged wardens, even though you don’t really see the lightning animations from call of the storm/enhanced conductivity, watching the dmg log clearly shows this daily and feat is giving the dmg to Ranged encounters and at wills too. So to revise Warden suggestions if you guys could make the AP cost of call of the storm only 25% instead of 50% I think this would be a great first step and see where it goes from there.
Another point would be removing the 10k critical strike penalty for Skirmisher's Gambit. Capping offensive stats in Mod19 will be quite difficult compared to other classes. Ranger doesn't overperform at all so I don't see why it should pay a 10k stats fee.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
> @gabrieldourden said: > (Quote) > (Quote) > Another point would be removing the 10k critical strike penalty for Skirmisher's Gambit. Capping offensive stats in Mod19 will be quite difficult compared to other classes. Ranger doesn't overperform at all so I don't see why it should pay a 10k stats fee.
Yes I agree, 10k was a bit of a jump from 3k especially with penalizing the gambit by already lowering It 5%.
Joebot has been pretty busy fixing bugs and polishing some aspects of m19. That's why I'm here to talk about some changes we're looking at for Ranger. I can't say for sure these would be there for the launch of m19 on PC, but they might be, or they might show up in a later patch.
Aimed Shot -> reduced to 1 sec total cast time, reduce magnitude to 175 Rate of Change -> increase to 15% Thorned Roots -> increase magnitude to 75, controlled magnitude to 225 Slasher's Expertise -> duration increased to 15 seconds
Splt Shot -> magnitude increase to 60-120 Longstider -> reduced to 14 second cooldown from 16 seconds, magnitude reduced to 500
Skirmisher's Gambit -> reduce critical strike penalty to 5k Deft Strikes -> increase to 12% Aspect of the Serpent -> increase to 3%
> @noworries#8859 said: > Joebot has been pretty busy fixing bugs and polishing some aspects of m19. That's why I'm here to talk about some changes we're looking at for Ranger. I can't say for sure these would be there for the launch of m19 on PC, but they might be, or they might show up in a later patch. > > > Aimed Shot -> reduced to 1 sec total cast time, reduce magnitude to 175 > Rate of Change -> increase to 15% > Thorned Roots -> increase magnitude to 75, controlled magnitude to 225 > Slasher's Expertise -> duration increased to 15 seconds > > Splt Shot -> magnitude increase to 60-120 > Longstider -> reduced to 14 second cooldown from 16 seconds, magnitude reduced to 500 > > Skirmisher's Gambit -> reduce critical strike penalty to 5k > Deft Strikes -> increase to 12% > Aspect of the Serpent -> increase to 3%
I like these for the most part. This is good feedback from you/Joe. I think these will all help. My only comments on the above are this:
Deft strikes - I'm not sure if 12% is enough to compete. Maybe 15%? Swiftness of the Fox - something still needs to be done here. Cordon should at least grant extra cooldown reduction. Storm conduit: the effectiveness of this feat is low. I was thinking something like arbiters 2nd tier feat. Upon using "some" encounter, make cordon of arrows a single target with a small magnitude buff. Storm conduit is quite a clunky feat.
Thank you for the positive changes though! I think these compromises are nice.
Um....do these proposed changes really do anything? They appear to make the Hunter more viable compared to the Warden, but the class as a whole does not appear to be affected at all by these proposed changes. Rangers could really use some improvements to make the class (regardless of which paragon) competitive in the upcoming trial.
1
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Um....do these proposed changes really do anything? They appear to make the Hunter more viable compared to the Warden, but the class as a whole does not appear to be affected at all by these proposed changes. Rangers could really use some improvements to make the class (regardless of which paragon) competitive in the upcoming trial.
They are an improvement but it will still underperform heavily. Archer at-wills will still be too weak and Trapper rotation will still be a mess after a while
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Personally I feel hunter is so far behind that it needs the recharges trimming but the magnitudes either leaving as is or boosting and that applies to encounters and at wills.
It should be a strong enough option to go up vs melee warden on single target and at the moment it's at least 30% behind
@noworries#8859@joebot#9387 Hey first let me say we appreciate you guys taking the time to listen and make changes, I’m really happy defstrike and serpent %s have gone up, and your reducing the penalty for skirmishers gambit. Thankyou for reducing aimed shots cast time and long shots cooldown time. The one thing I just want to suggest on the hunter Is please don’t lower their magnitudes, the recommendations for reducing aimed shots cast time and Encounter cooldowns are based off the magnitudes they have now. I believe what you may see changing them in the manner presented will basically be like keeping the hunters output very close to what it is now. Also .,,I’ve rethought my suggestion about call of the storms AP cost. I suggested 25% AP cost down from 50. But I believe 35- 40% Ap Cost may be a more balanced and fair cost for something that just puts the warden in line with the other classes . Ty for informing us of you guys thoughts and possible future actions.
> @reeper#9973 said: > When can we expect the fix for Hindering Strike not hitting anything? Also Boar charge not activating "flurry" buff?
Just a note I apologize it’s a bit off topic for the thread , but to help you deal with these issues as they are now reeper, I’ve done some observations on our powers and how they work. Flurry almost acts like a light switch , say you use marauders rush, it’ll turn flurry on , but if you use bore charge to quickly while flurry is still up from marauders rush, it frequently will turn the flurry switch off instead of procing correctly. Also I’ve noticed the same issue seems to be what causes hindering strike to misfire when used to quickly when the flurry “light switch” Is being toyed with. I find when I put 4 single hit storm strikeS inbetween all three encounters I have zero misfires or flurry failures. If your looking to pump out your encounters quickly , I recommend coming in with marauders rush first then doing 4 storm strikes , then using hinder strike immediately followed by bore charge( or maybe in the case of mobs Steelbreeze). Doing this will let you pump out encounters , avoid hindering strike misfires and generally let’s flurry proc after bore charge/steel breeze. Also to back this up I have not experienced a hinder strike misfire on my stance switcher (that I switch from flurry to storm conduit for testing but now the rotation is encounters only) going from a ranged encounter to hindering strike.
For these reasons , a possible FIX for the warden might be to do away with the proc of flurry and just have a feat for a melee warden In its place that grants double Melee at will Dmg all the time.
And maybe in turn delete storm conduit and put feat in its place that provides dbl at will damage for ranged At wills for say the ranged Wardens. Storm conduit is just kinda like sticking a 9v battery to enemy’s tongues when they have dry mouth syndrome.
> @"noworries#8859" said: > Joebot has been pretty busy fixing bugs and polishing some aspects of m19. That's why I'm here to talk about some changes we're looking at for Ranger. I can't say for sure these would be there for the launch of m19 on PC, but they might be, or they might show up in a later patch. > > > Aimed Shot -> reduced to 1 sec total cast time, reduce magnitude to 175 > Rate of Change -> increase to 15% > Thorned Roots -> increase magnitude to 75, controlled magnitude to 225 > Slasher's Expertise -> duration increased to 15 seconds > > Splt Shot -> magnitude increase to 60-120 > Longstider -> reduced to 14 second cooldown from 16 seconds, magnitude reduced to 500 > > Skirmisher's Gambit -> reduce critical strike penalty to 5k > Deft Strikes -> increase to 12% > Aspect of the Serpent -> increase to 3%
Thank you for the work you're doing. If I may throw my 2 cents in, I think the changes are good, but Slasher's Expertise and Deft Strikes are missing the point.
No Hunter build can be fully melee, so Slasher's Expertise should buff both ranged and melee damage. Only then I could consider picking it over More than Disruptive.
A rotation based on Deft Strikes is difficult, and if any Encounter power misfires you are in trouble. I would consider taking Deft Strikes over Focused, even when switching stance, only if the bonus was at least 20-30%. I think melee warden would still be better, but it's a start.
Just remember, hunter needs all these boosts just to be close to where warden is atm. The feedback from those in preview is that warden is the bottom dps and even before any changes the feedback from cryptic was warden was in the middle. Those below have since been boosted. So potentially hunter could do with surpassing warden just to mean that ranger can keep up with cleric who on bosses can literally spam encounters with perfect balance to bring them back to full or barb who now has encounters hitting close to 1k magnitude
@mikewho#5331 I have extensive knowledge about the way Flurry works, but Boar charge sometimes does not activate it. This has been noticed by some friends that play the class also.
> When can we expect the fix for Hindering Strike not hitting anything? Also Boar charge not activating "flurry" buff?
Just a note I apologize it’s a bit off topic for the thread , but to help you deal with these issues as they are now reeper, I’ve done some observations on our powers and how they work. Flurry almost acts like a light switch , say you use marauders rush, it’ll turn flurry on , but if you use bore charge to quickly while flurry is still up from marauders rush, it frequently will turn the flurry switch off instead of procing correctly. Also I’ve noticed the same issue seems to be what causes hindering strike to misfire when used to quickly when the flurry “light switch” Is being toyed with. I find when I put 4 single hit storm strikeS inbetween all three encounters I have zero misfires or flurry failures. If your looking to pump out your encounters quickly , I recommend coming in with marauders rush first then doing 4 storm strikes , then using hinder strike immediately followed by bore charge( or maybe in the case of mobs Steelbreeze). Doing this will let you pump out encounters , avoid hindering strike misfires and generally let’s flurry proc after bore charge/steel breeze. Also to back this up I have not experienced a hinder strike misfire on my stance switcher (that I switch from flurry to storm conduit for testing but now the rotation is encounters only) going from a ranged encounter to hindering strike.
For these reasons , a possible FIX for the warden might be to do away with the proc of flurry and just have a feat for a melee warden
In its place that grants double Melee at will Dmg all the time.
And maybe in turn delete storm conduit and put feat in its place that provides dbl at will damage for ranged At wills for say the ranged Wardens. Storm conduit is just kinda like sticking a 9v battery to enemy’s tongues when they have dry mouth syndrome.
My feeling is more that Flurry cannot be refreshed as long as it is active.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
jman3l#5579 sadly the only useful change you are mentioning is the skirmisher gambit dropping crit loss to 5k we have an ability called storm conduit and i have yet to see anyone use it in a viable way and that is 1 of the reasons why the warden became so reliant on blade hurricane ( flurry) not to mention most of the changes you guys are suggesting still separate a melee hr from a ranged 1 with no way to make a hybrid form the trapper hr is what ( not speaking for others ) so i want that back the hr is boring so if the devs can't make an alternative ( a real one that can be viable) to the warden hr right now that just seems to be the top pick even if it is boring we always had 3 ways of playing the hr so why did u remove it and make only 2 so honestly either give the hr a dps buff that justifies this extremely boring way of playing or do some extreme changes to it hr's are the only class that are adaptable and an hr at it's core is just adapting so if the hr players can't adapt to extreme changes it's better they don't play it but the players will adapt because hr's are fun to play if u stop taking away the fun out of it i want an hr that is adaptable that i can go to any content switch an encounter or 2 and be viable so please either make it more fun to play or just buff it so we say at least it is strong and on parr with other classes) .
But the > @reeper#9973 said: > @mikewho#5331 I have extensive knowledge about the way Flurry works, but Boar charge sometimes does not activate it. This has been noticed by some friends that play the class also.
Hey Reeper, does it not proc flurry when using bore charge by its self , I’ve only got to Experience it not proc flurry when I use borecharge almost or immediately after I used another encounter.
I ges either way having a feat that gave dbl melee atwills all the time instead of having to proc it would be a good fix😉
@joebot#9387@noworries#8859 How bout that idea guys ? On the warden for melee to deal with the flurry procing issues have blade huricane just grant the melee Atwill dbl dmg all the time instead of having to be procd
Also for the ranged warden leave ranged at will magnitudes where they are , but eliminate Storm conduit and in its place a feat that gives ranged at wills dbl dmg all the time.
Ranged wardens are weaker mostly only due to the fact that even though their At will magnitudes are good and they do relative dmg as the doubles melee atwills , except storm strike, Majority of ranged at wills only do half of what the melee wardens storm strike does. Storm conduit does not make up for it by far, and this would put the ranged warden closer to the melee warden. The only other thing to add would be can you make all the warden and hunters ranged at wills have mobility like Aimed shot has? Being able to move and use ranged atwills at the same time can be a lifesaver.
That’s it I’m done lol, other than if you guys could make call of the storm only cost 35% ap instead of 50%,.. please o please o please on that one.! Please can I pet that doooooogggg
I just made a ranger 3 months ago and leveled it up to 25,000 IL, limited mostly by its having only 5 boons and no alabaster weapon set. In daily RTQs It's always in the top 3 damage running Warden only. One thing I hate about the character is that the first three encounters learned are the three I use. Don't need anything else. The 7 encounter skills learned after day one are basically useless. I don't see these being buffed.. since the primary buffs should be going to Hunter. This the significant challenge that I see with "fine-tuning" the Ranger class as a whole.
On the warden for melee to deal with the flurry procing issues have blade huricane just grant the melee Atwill dbl dmg all the time instead of having to be procd
Also for the ranged warden leave ranged at will magnitudes where they are , but eliminate
Storm conduit and in its place a feat that gives ranged at wills dbl dmg all the time.
Ranged wardens are weaker mostly only due to the fact that even though their At will magnitudes are good and they do relative dmg as the doubles melee atwills , except storm strike, Majority of ranged at wills only do half of what the melee wardens storm strike does. Storm conduit does not make up for it by far, and this would put the ranged warden closer to the melee warden. The only other thing to add would be can you make all the warden and hunters ranged at wills have mobility like Aimed shot has? Being able to move and use ranged atwills at the same time can be a lifesaver.
That’s it I’m done lol, other than if you guys could make call of the storm only cost 35% ap instead of 50%,.. please o please o please on that one.!
Please can I pet that doooooogggg
No that would make warden even more braindead than it is now. Having to time proccing isn't that big of a deal, and warden certainly is NOT the worst dps. I'm beating top level wizards in zariel's challenge and TOMM. You just need to play perfect.
I mentioned before that the changes @noworries#8859 and @joebot#9387 are thinking for the next patch are great, but its only a start. I think lowering cooldowns were good, but I would have kept the higher magnitudes, since its already so far behind other paragons. Its okay to risk making something too good to tweak the magnitudes a bit later on. Doing it incrementally could take many, many patches and be a waste of limited resources.
5
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited June 2020
I tested flurry a lot and basically what I see is that it cannot be refreshed if it's active. If you use a second encounter during the window when flurry is up that encounter does nothing on the flurry side and flurry expires normally three seconds after the activation done with the first encounter. This means you need good timing. A standard routine of 1 encounter-4 storm strikes works fine and defines a baseline dps for the melee warden. The overall encounter rotation is a bit shorter than 12 storm strikes, so you can play a bit with the rotation and get down with approximately 10 storm strikes every 3 encounters, which usually gives me the best results. As @jman3l#5579 says you need good timing to get the best results, but that's really the only skill needed to play a melee warden.
Replacing flurry with 2xmelee at-will damage would make the build a braindead one. You'll just go 3xencounters to get a spike, then storm strike until encounters come off cooldown.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@gabrieldourden@jman3l#5579 How dare you Gabriel!😂 Just assume I would use all my encounters at once and ride storm strike until they cooldown!?😂. You have a point and maybe i agree. But I just can’t admit it yet. Maybe look at it in a different light, ...if it’s already brain dead to begin with....Butttt Say the dbl at will Dmg didn’t have to be procd. Do you think maybe upping recharge speed a bit you could make a faster rotation with say only 2 storm strikes inbetween each encounter for faster complete rotations. Do you think that’s something feasible? I haven’t actually went past 8.3ish recharge speed to see how much faster encounters cooldown. I will say I’m happy overall, maybe I’m just being greedy😉
Post edited by mikewho#5331 on
1
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
How dare you Gabriel!😂 Just assume I would use all my encounters at once and ride storm strike until they cooldown!?😂. You have a point and maybe i agree. But I just can’t admit it yet. Maybe look at it in a different light, ...if it’s already brain dead to begin with....Butttt Say the dbl at will Dmg didn’t have to be procd. Do you think maybe upping recharge speed a bit you could make a faster rotation with say only 2 storm strikes inbetween each encounter for faster complete rotations. Do you think that’s something feasible? I haven’t actually went past 8.3ish recharge speed to see how much faster encounters cooldown.
I will say I’m happy overall, maybe I’m just being greedy😉
I would be happy with Flurry just refreshing whenever you use an encounter.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I ges either way having a feat that gave dbl melee atwills all the time instead of having to proc it would be a good fix😉
literally just play GF
They now have an At-will which casts every 0.7 seconds and hits for 135 mag, which is basically slightly different from having permanent Blade Hurricane.
Because instead of making an interesting feat or encouraging players to have a unique playstyle... just overwhelm the enemy with numbers.
> @rjc9000 said: > (Quote) > Change that to "Ranger in general" because the class is too honest. > > Ranger doesn't have much in the way of cheese or overtuned numbers, which is why it is pretty bad as a result. > > Funnily enough, Mod 16-18 Barbarian was meh because it was honest.(Quote) > literally just play GF > > They now have an At-will which casts every 0.7 seconds and hits for 135 mag, which is basically slightly different from having permanent Blade Hurricane. > > Because instead of making an interesting feat or encouraging players to have a unique playstyle... just overwhelm the enemy with numbers.
Its 3rd best dps on live and not far behind 2nd. I don't understand why people are upset about melee warden. It's good. In mod 19 barbarian passed us, so some slight tweaks to melee warden, but sizable buffs to hunter paragon will work to close the gap a bit.
> @rjc9000 said: > (Quote) > Change that to "Ranger in general" because the class is too honest. > > Ranger doesn't have much in the way of cheese or overtuned numbers, which is why it is pretty bad as a result. > > Funnily enough, Mod 16-18 Barbarian was meh because it was honest.(Quote) > literally just play GF > > They now have an At-will which casts every 0.7 seconds and hits for 135 mag, which is basically slightly different from having permanent Blade Hurricane. > > Because instead of making an interesting feat or encouraging players to have a unique playstyle... just overwhelm the enemy with numbers.
Mod 16-17 I was beating barbs with 20-30k more power than me, mod 18 I bulked up to 170k power that's much harder to do as I'm vs the big beasts now but im still typically competitive vs similar toons. Now finding the tr's, clerics etc are the ones beating me
Longshot currently on live server - +30% ranged and -50% melee. Should be +50% ranged -50% melee or adjusted to +30%/-30% FEEDBACK: Slasher's mark - upgrade to party wide buff instead of personal. (+10% melee to all party members)
split shot : magnitude increased to 60-120 from 40-80 cordon of arrows : now apply strong grasping roots aspect of the serpent : damage per stack increased to 3% from 2%
WARDEN
deft strikes : damage on next stance encounter increased to 12% from 10% skirmisher gambit : crit loss reduced to 5000 from 10000
HUNTER
aimed shot : cast time reduced to 1sc from 1.65sc longstrider shot : cooldown reduced to 12.9sc from 16.6sc / magnitude decreased to 500 from 525 commanding shot : target's incoming dmg increased to 10% from 5% / target's outgoing dmg reduction removed / now apply strong grasping roots
rate of change : 15% dmg boost when switching stance increased from 5% / 2% decay per sec from 1% thorned roots : magnitude increased to 75 from 50 / 225 magnitude dealt on CC imune target from 150 biting snares : applying grasping roots and thorned roots now gives 1% AP / AP gain on stance switching removed forestbond : CDR increased to 10% from 5% for strong grasping roots or thorned roots. commander in chief : commanding shot now increases projectile damage by 10% for 10 sec / CDR removed slasher expertise : melee damage boost duration increased to 15sc from 10sc
Comments
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
> (Quote)
> (Quote)
> Another point would be removing the 10k critical strike penalty for Skirmisher's Gambit. Capping offensive stats in Mod19 will be quite difficult compared to other classes. Ranger doesn't overperform at all so I don't see why it should pay a 10k stats fee.
Yes I agree, 10k was a bit of a jump from 3k especially with penalizing the gambit by already lowering It 5%.
Aimed Shot -> reduced to 1 sec total cast time, reduce magnitude to 175
Rate of Change -> increase to 15%
Thorned Roots -> increase magnitude to 75, controlled magnitude to 225
Slasher's Expertise -> duration increased to 15 seconds
Splt Shot -> magnitude increase to 60-120
Longstider -> reduced to 14 second cooldown from 16 seconds, magnitude reduced to 500
Skirmisher's Gambit -> reduce critical strike penalty to 5k
Deft Strikes -> increase to 12%
Aspect of the Serpent -> increase to 3%
> Joebot has been pretty busy fixing bugs and polishing some aspects of m19. That's why I'm here to talk about some changes we're looking at for Ranger. I can't say for sure these would be there for the launch of m19 on PC, but they might be, or they might show up in a later patch.
>
>
> Aimed Shot -> reduced to 1 sec total cast time, reduce magnitude to 175
> Rate of Change -> increase to 15%
> Thorned Roots -> increase magnitude to 75, controlled magnitude to 225
> Slasher's Expertise -> duration increased to 15 seconds
>
> Splt Shot -> magnitude increase to 60-120
> Longstider -> reduced to 14 second cooldown from 16 seconds, magnitude reduced to 500
>
> Skirmisher's Gambit -> reduce critical strike penalty to 5k
> Deft Strikes -> increase to 12%
> Aspect of the Serpent -> increase to 3%
I like these for the most part. This is good feedback from you/Joe. I think these will all help. My only comments on the above are this:
Deft strikes - I'm not sure if 12% is enough to compete. Maybe 15%?
Swiftness of the Fox - something still needs to be done here. Cordon should at least grant extra cooldown reduction.
Storm conduit: the effectiveness of this feat is low. I was thinking something like arbiters 2nd tier feat. Upon using "some" encounter, make cordon of arrows a single target with a small magnitude buff. Storm conduit is quite a clunky feat.
Thank you for the positive changes though! I think these compromises are nice.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
It should be a strong enough option to go up vs melee warden on single target and at the moment it's at least 30% behind
Hey first let me say we appreciate you guys taking the time to listen and make changes, I’m really happy defstrike and serpent %s have gone up, and your reducing the penalty for skirmishers gambit. Thankyou for reducing aimed shots cast time and long shots cooldown time. The one thing I just want to suggest on the hunter Is please don’t lower their magnitudes, the recommendations for reducing aimed shots cast time and Encounter cooldowns are based off the magnitudes they have now. I believe what you may see changing them in the manner presented will basically be like keeping the hunters output very close to what it is now.
Also .,,I’ve rethought my suggestion about call of the storms AP cost. I suggested 25% AP cost down from 50. But I believe 35- 40% Ap Cost may be a more balanced and fair cost for something that just puts the warden in line with the other classes . Ty for informing us of you guys thoughts and possible future actions.
> When can we expect the fix for Hindering Strike not hitting anything? Also Boar charge not activating "flurry" buff?
Just a note I apologize it’s a bit off topic for the thread , but to help you deal with these issues as they are now reeper, I’ve done some observations on our powers and how they work. Flurry almost acts like a light switch , say you use marauders rush, it’ll turn flurry on , but if you use bore charge to quickly while flurry is still up from marauders rush, it frequently will turn the flurry switch off instead of procing correctly. Also I’ve noticed the same issue seems to be what causes hindering strike to misfire when used to quickly when the flurry “light switch” Is being toyed with. I find when I put 4 single hit storm strikeS inbetween all three encounters I have zero misfires or flurry failures. If your looking to pump out your encounters quickly , I recommend coming in with marauders rush first then doing 4 storm strikes , then using hinder strike immediately followed by bore charge( or maybe in the case of mobs Steelbreeze). Doing this will let you pump out encounters , avoid hindering strike misfires and generally let’s flurry proc after bore charge/steel breeze. Also to back this up I have not experienced a hinder strike misfire on my stance switcher (that I switch from flurry to storm conduit for testing but now the rotation is encounters only) going from a ranged encounter to hindering strike.
For these reasons , a possible FIX for the warden might be to do away with the proc of flurry and just have a feat for a melee warden
In its place that grants double Melee at will Dmg all the time.
And maybe in turn delete storm conduit and put feat in its place that provides dbl at will damage for ranged At wills for say the ranged Wardens. Storm conduit is just kinda like sticking a 9v battery to enemy’s tongues when they have dry mouth syndrome.
> Joebot has been pretty busy fixing bugs and polishing some aspects of m19. That's why I'm here to talk about some changes we're looking at for Ranger. I can't say for sure these would be there for the launch of m19 on PC, but they might be, or they might show up in a later patch.
>
>
> Aimed Shot -> reduced to 1 sec total cast time, reduce magnitude to 175
> Rate of Change -> increase to 15%
> Thorned Roots -> increase magnitude to 75, controlled magnitude to 225
> Slasher's Expertise -> duration increased to 15 seconds
>
> Splt Shot -> magnitude increase to 60-120
> Longstider -> reduced to 14 second cooldown from 16 seconds, magnitude reduced to 500
>
> Skirmisher's Gambit -> reduce critical strike penalty to 5k
> Deft Strikes -> increase to 12%
> Aspect of the Serpent -> increase to 3%
Thank you for the work you're doing. If I may throw my 2 cents in, I think the changes are good, but Slasher's Expertise and Deft Strikes are missing the point.
No Hunter build can be fully melee, so Slasher's Expertise should buff both ranged and melee damage. Only then I could consider picking it over More than Disruptive.
A rotation based on Deft Strikes is difficult, and if any Encounter power misfires you are in trouble. I would consider taking Deft Strikes over Focused, even when switching stance, only if the bonus was at least 20-30%. I think melee warden would still be better, but it's a start.
The feedback from those in preview is that warden is the bottom dps and even before any changes the feedback from cryptic was warden was in the middle. Those below have since been boosted. So potentially hunter could do with surpassing warden just to mean that ranger can keep up with cleric who on bosses can literally spam encounters with perfect balance to bring them back to full or barb who now has encounters hitting close to 1k magnitude
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
sadly the only useful change you are mentioning is the skirmisher gambit dropping crit loss to 5k we have an ability called storm conduit and i have yet to see anyone use it in a viable way and that is 1 of the reasons why the warden became so reliant on blade hurricane ( flurry) not to mention most of the changes you guys are suggesting still separate a melee hr from a ranged 1 with no way to make a hybrid form the trapper hr is what ( not speaking for others ) so i want that back the hr is boring so if the devs can't make an alternative ( a real one that can be viable) to the warden hr right now that just seems to be the top pick even if it is boring we always had 3 ways of playing the hr so why did u remove it and make only 2 so honestly either give the hr a dps buff that justifies this extremely boring way of playing or do some extreme changes to it hr's are the only class that are adaptable and an hr at it's core is just adapting so if the hr players can't adapt to extreme changes it's better they don't play it
but the players will adapt because hr's are fun to play if u stop taking away the fun out of it i want an hr that is adaptable that i can go to any content switch an encounter or 2 and be viable so please either make it more fun to play or just buff it so we say at least it is strong and on parr with other classes) .
thank you
> @mikewho#5331 I have extensive knowledge about the way Flurry works, but Boar charge sometimes does not activate it. This has been noticed by some friends that play the class also.
Hey Reeper, does it not proc flurry when using bore charge by its self , I’ve only got to Experience it not proc flurry when I use borecharge almost or immediately after I used another encounter.
I ges either way having a feat that gave dbl melee atwills all the time instead of having to proc it would be a good fix😉
How bout that idea guys ?
On the warden for melee to deal with the flurry procing issues have blade huricane just grant the melee Atwill dbl dmg all the time instead of having to be procd
Also for the ranged warden leave ranged at will magnitudes where they are , but eliminate
Storm conduit and in its place a feat that gives ranged at wills dbl dmg all the time.
Ranged wardens are weaker mostly only due to the fact that even though their At will magnitudes are good and they do relative dmg as the doubles melee atwills , except storm strike, Majority of ranged at wills only do half of what the melee wardens storm strike does. Storm conduit does not make up for it by far, and this would put the ranged warden closer to the melee warden. The only other thing to add would be can you make all the warden and hunters ranged at wills have mobility like Aimed shot has? Being able to move and use ranged atwills at the same time can be a lifesaver.
That’s it I’m done lol, other than if you guys could make call of the storm only cost 35% ap instead of 50%,.. please o please o please on that one.!
Please can I pet that doooooogggg
I mentioned before that the changes @noworries#8859 and @joebot#9387 are thinking for the next patch are great, but its only a start. I think lowering cooldowns were good, but I would have kept the higher magnitudes, since its already so far behind other paragons. Its okay to risk making something too good to tweak the magnitudes a bit later on. Doing it incrementally could take many, many patches and be a waste of limited resources.
Replacing flurry with 2xmelee at-will damage would make the build a braindead one. You'll just go 3xencounters to get a spike, then storm strike until encounters come off cooldown.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
How dare you Gabriel!😂 Just assume I would use all my encounters at once and ride storm strike until they cooldown!?😂. You have a point and maybe i agree. But I just can’t admit it yet. Maybe look at it in a different light, ...if it’s already brain dead to begin with....Butttt Say the dbl at will Dmg didn’t have to be procd. Do you think maybe upping recharge speed a bit you could make a faster rotation with say only 2 storm strikes inbetween each encounter for faster complete rotations. Do you think that’s something feasible? I haven’t actually went past 8.3ish recharge speed to see how much faster encounters cooldown.
I will say I’m happy overall, maybe I’m just being greedy😉
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
> (Quote)
> I would be happy with Flurry just refreshing whenever you use an encounter
That would definitely be the best fix
Ranger doesn't have much in the way of cheese or overtuned numbers, which is why it is pretty bad as a result.
Funnily enough, Mod 16-18 Barbarian was meh because it was honest.
literally just play GF
They now have an At-will which casts every 0.7 seconds and hits for 135 mag, which is basically slightly different from having permanent Blade Hurricane.
Because instead of making an interesting feat or encouraging players to have a unique playstyle... just overwhelm the enemy with numbers.
> (Quote)
> Change that to "Ranger in general" because the class is too honest.
>
> Ranger doesn't have much in the way of cheese or overtuned numbers, which is why it is pretty bad as a result.
>
> Funnily enough, Mod 16-18 Barbarian was meh because it was honest.(Quote)
> literally just play GF
>
> They now have an At-will which casts every 0.7 seconds and hits for 135 mag, which is basically slightly different from having permanent Blade Hurricane.
>
> Because instead of making an interesting feat or encouraging players to have a unique playstyle... just overwhelm the enemy with numbers.
Its 3rd best dps on live and not far behind 2nd. I don't understand why people are upset about melee warden. It's good. In mod 19 barbarian passed us, so some slight tweaks to melee warden, but sizable buffs to hunter paragon will work to close the gap a bit.
> (Quote)
> Change that to "Ranger in general" because the class is too honest.
>
> Ranger doesn't have much in the way of cheese or overtuned numbers, which is why it is pretty bad as a result.
>
> Funnily enough, Mod 16-18 Barbarian was meh because it was honest.(Quote)
> literally just play GF
>
> They now have an At-will which casts every 0.7 seconds and hits for 135 mag, which is basically slightly different from having permanent Blade Hurricane.
>
> Because instead of making an interesting feat or encouraging players to have a unique playstyle... just overwhelm the enemy with numbers.
Mod 16-17 I was beating barbs with 20-30k more power than me, mod 18 I bulked up to 170k power that's much harder to do as I'm vs the big beasts now but im still typically competitive vs similar toons. Now finding the tr's, clerics etc are the ones beating me
FEEDBACK: Slasher's mark - upgrade to party wide buff instead of personal. (+10% melee to all party members)
split shot : magnitude increased to 60-120 from 40-80
cordon of arrows : now apply strong grasping roots
aspect of the serpent : damage per stack increased to 3% from 2%
WARDEN
deft strikes : damage on next stance encounter increased to 12% from 10%
skirmisher gambit : crit loss reduced to 5000 from 10000
HUNTER
aimed shot : cast time reduced to 1sc from 1.65sc
longstrider shot : cooldown reduced to 12.9sc from 16.6sc / magnitude decreased to 500 from 525
commanding shot : target's incoming dmg increased to 10% from 5% / target's outgoing dmg reduction removed / now apply strong grasping roots
rate of change : 15% dmg boost when switching stance increased from 5% / 2% decay per sec from 1%
thorned roots : magnitude increased to 75 from 50 / 225 magnitude dealt on CC imune target from 150
biting snares : applying grasping roots and thorned roots now gives 1% AP / AP gain on stance switching removed
forestbond : CDR increased to 10% from 5% for strong grasping roots or thorned roots.
commander in chief : commanding shot now increases projectile damage by 10% for 10 sec / CDR removed
slasher expertise : melee damage boost duration increased to 15sc from 10sc