If we talk about advertisement, this will be a deep hole we dig. I do not have much of a business background, but the bit I have was marketing. (But it's in the past, so how good could it have been right lol) There is not much point in it, tho, because while I do not really know or care for their business structure I don't think Cryptic is responsible for it (PW I guess). They theoretically don't have to present it in any way or shape, maybe they can't, even. Who knows. That's beside your point, I know, but devs are generally not equipped to advertise something. No offense intended, thats just not in the job description. It would also create a bit of a twisted illusion to hype hype hype up this mod when it is very clear NW is in a in-between state where things could easily go amiss. Understatement is the way to go in this, also in gaining anything back, reputation, trust, name it. They have to deliver first this time, and no matter how good you present it, it could backfire if the community is not backing it up. Reddit, Twitch, Discord, Youtube, whatever. We all know how fast bad news travel, and how slow good news do in comparison. Generally, I would agree with you on a positive attitude to sell whatever it is you have to sell, but it 1) probably isn't what they got CW for, probably got enough on his plate as it is 2) the wrong image in the current state of the game.
Better let the players slowly find out that the stuff they complained about is wrong or not what they painted it to be (if @nooneatza is right, he usually is, I can't tell at this point) than telling them it is great, cause that could heavily backfire. There were cases of this, not (only) in NW specifically, but in other games, where the best CGI promoted mods accompanied by streams and a "hype" and all the "right" steps backfired and Underdogs turned out quite well.
If they can do understatement well (I'm not sure about it atm, all things considered, but still optimistic) it will turn out great.
Did you see any other games launches? Any product, in fact? . Have you seen any ex. producer talking about developing competion products? Neither Julia or the ex. producer could not say anything positive because they do not know the game. They could not bring anyone that knew either, or simple players.
And ex. producer choose this time to announce a half backed idea that sounds like putting the game on maintenace.
You are right, is a great strategy, great professionalism. .
I think all you did was watch launches, not active games. Even if, this is not ESO, because it is not in the same current state. You cannot compare this to a Las Vegas show.
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
You do realize that both hosts were sick right? It is hard to convey excitement or hold much concentration when your nose is stuffed or runny, throat may be sore, could have a pounding headache, or any other symptoms of common colds. They also couldn't really bring on people who might know more because they were busy with the servers.
If that makes you feel any better. WoW has turned out to be almost unplayable with latest patch FFXIV has a content drought and they reduced the amount of dungeons per patch from 2 to 1 and they have not delivered the glamour options as they promised for new race, people are waiting 8 months already to have more customization options. The industry itself is a rotting tomato, all games are in deep shait.
I don't know where everyone gets the idea that it is "written" somewhere they must make 3 modules per year or anything for that matter. New Executive Producer Chris Whiteside stated, he would like to reduce it to 2 modules per year. But I would applaud no more modules until the game is repaired. We have a long laundry list of fixes that covers PvP, builds, companions, gear, GUI, network issues, etc..
Are you really telling me you want to continue to watch the game degrade as opposed to fixing it? I for one, would welcome a year of nothing but bug fixes and repairs. Remember this is not your game, it belongs to Cryptic. We are lucky, if they don't halt all content as soon as their Magic MMO hits the streets.
It was something that Foss once said: they were obligated to release three modules per year and at least one of them had to be in sync with a current WoTC release. Perhaps they can get some relief from that and/or redefine what constitutes a "module"?
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
It was something that Foss once said: they were obligated to release three modules per year and at least one of them had to be in sync with a current WoTC release. Perhaps they can get some relief from that and/or redefine what constitutes a "module"?
Yes, he said in video they planned to make 3 modules a year. Nothing in the video stated they were forced by a legal agreement. I watched the video. Show me where that is written in a contract or the video of anyone at Cryptic states they are under legal contract. Heck, I will settle for the janitor at Cryptic to state it on a video. Now I bet one of you is going to make me look up the stupid video? Foss also said, working on the game engine is like working on an old Harley, it don't mean they have a Harley Davison motorcycle powering the servers!
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Even just saying that M19 would be at the end of the year supports the fact that they are planning to release 2 a year.
0
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
edited January 2020
Not to mention, they are planning other content drops every few months.
Here is a quote from Chris in the CDP thread "We will be releasing a high level road map in the next two weeks. The focus is on release quality, player experience and evolving the game together moving forward so we have to be realistic about how we develop. The plan is two big mods a year with new focused content every two months. As we get better (all of us) with this model we will be able to add more content and maybe have a faster release cadence. A lot of info is in the Accesibility CDP in regard to this.
Thanks to @blargskull for looking that video up, if you start at roughly the 41 minute mark Julia is fielding a question about publishing. During that time you can see Chris is somewhat distracted by another question on the screen that he answers. (By the way, @cwhitesidedev#9752 you really talk fast, kind of like my bankers) but after he reads the question, he goes on to explain, this game is stuck in the rut. To break out of this rut they need some downtime to give the game the TLC it needs. It has been going for years with bugs that still exist from many years ago.
I am in favor of his plan, Neverwinter chews through these modules, like Chinese food, and gains nothing from the meal. I only wish that Chris had been on board with Cryptic more than a year ago. He might have seen the folly of those who tossed out the Foundry. Say what you like, but the Foundry is where they kept the in between snacks for this game. Less than a week after players beat module 16, they looked around and said, "That's it?" and they took off. Same with module 17, "Burp! What's next?". Then you read the forums and early as October there was posts wanting module 18 to drop before 2020, because "they are under contract for 3 modules per year". I have no clue about any such contract and apparently none of you do either. But guess what? A lot of you never heard of a Fiscal year I bet... look it up. Now you (the player base) are doing it again. "Whaaa! We are going to starve to death!".
As I understand it, Chris is talking about micro content (such as the Foundry was) being released over the course of this year. I hope he gets his way, I don't know, if there are enough people staffed at Cryptic to pump out the needed amount of moo juice to suppress the masses. At this late point in the journey, it is up to the Cryptic staff to write up a mess of mini content, and not outsource it for free as it worked always worked before.
Before I go, I wish to point out to those who think "there is nothing to do" without modules, I make my own adventures. Currently I am in full swing of hosting the Ironcrown Contest. While you brood about the lack of content, I am still creating it. Click my siggy. This is what I did when the Foundry was up and running, sad there is no way for me to ever create contests like that ever again.
The fact that they have Avernus to use but could only manage a reworked stronghold with maybe 2 or 3 new creature designs and people are already getting bored with Ape and named farming says everything you need to know about what this year is going to look like.
ME for 1 year, Ape for 1 year. But Mod 20 will be a great success...
Doctor,how was the surgery ? = The surgery was a great success, just the patient is dead. .
Calm down. Play another game if you do not like this one. Take a break and come back in couple of months. Aggressive comments will not make it better (found out myself lol), constructive feedback - perhaps. I myself have a lot - like A LOT - to say to Cryptic regarding the way they run the game but who am I. I can only report bugs endlessly and provide feedback in hopes of someone reasonable finally taking care of it. And hope that MTG will not replace NW but will be a brand new game for me to sink thousands of hours in, just like it is with NW.
No, she's right, there's no point in completely focussing on major releases especially when for 90% of players it ends up in doing Ape and Master Expeditions over and over.
As I understand it, Chris is talking about micro content (such as the Foundry was) being released over the course of this year. I hope he gets his way, I don't know, if there are enough people staffed at Cryptic to pump out the needed amount of moo juice to suppress the masses. At this late point in the journey, it is up to the Cryptic staff to write up a mess of mini content, and not outsource it for free as it worked always worked before.
Before I go, I wish to point out to those who think "there is nothing to do" without modules, I make my own adventures. Currently I am in full swing of hosting the Ironcrown Contest. While you brood about the lack of content, I am still creating it. Click my siggy. This is what I did when the Foundry was up and running, sad there is no way for me to ever create contests like that ever again.
I mean last year we had 4 or 5 Tales events and lots of Call to Arms - that's actually a lot. If wasn't communicated properly, at least I and many others missed farming the first Tales events since it wasn't clear how good the artifacts were. Add Hellpit, up the rewards and you have like 20 relevant events per year, that's around 2 per months with major events like the Jubilee and Summer event in between. Now of course as you said they have to figure out where to spend resources, which events are worth to rework and it also doesn't hurt to tie in events like Hellpit into Avernus, which was a pretty good idea if you ask me.
If they make the mods longer products its a gamble for them as well because if a mod pack takes a year, it will really need to be good. I'm all for waiting for great content releases so waiting a year for a mod is fine, but it needs to be good. We can't have the same mechanics, like heroic encounters and time gated campaigns. It wont cut it if we need to wait a year for it.
Adding in small story line packs for each mod as a continued story line is fine too. It has the potential to make the campaigns much larger and meaningful. So I'm all for small content releases in between mod releases.
They just need to totally get a way from design structures that aren't fun. Time gates are not fun. Heroic encounters are not fun. Also causing 90% of your item database to become obsolete isn't fun and its confusing to new players. I don't know how many times per week when I run into a new player who is chasing an item from an outdated mod. I warn them too, I tell them that the info I am about to tell them might upset them when they discover the item they are chasing is obsolete and there is a newer better counterpart item that is even easier to obtain. I do this to prevent their frustration by not saying anything to save their time. I am sure there are countless players who quit because no one told them their plans for gear was a waste of time.
They need to completely restructure how older items function. Either allow a method to "raise" older items to be equivalent or competitive with new items or a way to convert older items into newest mod seals where players can obtain the new gear by sacrificing older items.
They also need to get rid of refinement points as rewards, refinement points are not rewards. They need to remove these from lock boxes too. Do we need refinement? Sure, and yes, but its not a reward because there comes a time in a character progression where refinement isn't needed anymore yet 90% of our rewards is nothing but refinement points.
Lol, if content updates mean more hell pit like events...no HAMSTER thank you.
Mags is spot on...we’ve had HAMSTER content updates since 16 dropped. Mod 18 IS a rehash of OLD CONTENT. The new equipment is mostly garbage and only the dungeon is a saving grace.
There are soooooooo many bugs in this game, some YEARS old and you white knights are actually cheerleading this debacle.
Lol, if content updates mean more hell pit like events...no HAMSTER thank you.
If content updates mean more hell pit like events, where I can get 2 legendary insignias (worth 1M each) by investing less than 10 minutes each day, instead of the normal HAMSTER rewards for grinding old events all day long... Yes, thank you
For me it depends on what the smaller, more frequent updates are.
I really hope it's nothing like GW2s "Living Story" - limited time events that advance world plot which if you miss... well... you miss. No repeats. No flash backs. I absolutely hate that method and was one of the reasons I quit GW2.
Stuff like Hell Pit or Neverwinter Siege that doesn't advance plot and repeats is fine. Re-introducing the foundry would be the best!
For me it depends on what the smaller, more frequent updates are.
I really hope it's nothing like GW2s "Living Story" - limited time events that advance world plot which if you miss... well... you miss. No repeats. No flash backs. I absolutely hate that method and was one of the reasons I quit GW2.
Stuff like Hell Pit or Neverwinter Siege that doesn't advance plot and repeats is fine. Re-introducing the foundry would be the best!
I agree with you, but it has been almost an entire year without the Foundry. I fear it is too late. Most of our authors are lost, adrift on other shores, and taken shelter elsewhere. Even so, it would take Cryptic a better part of a year (at this rate) to implement the Foundry and rebuild the database. The new Foundry would mostly be comprised of new authors, as many of us have trust issues with Cryptic.
Off topic: I tried GW2 but I am an old school Guild Wars girl, the interface, the feel, the lore, PvP, just everything felt "wrong" somehow when I played the sequel. Heroes became villains and villains became heroes, they threw out the old game, and started something new and it just wasn't Guild Wars anymore. I still play Guild Wars PvP weekend in Fort Aspenwood there is about 4,800 of us still playing the original.
I agree with you, but it has been almost an entire year without the Foundry. I fear it is too late. Most of our authors are lost, adrift on other shores, and taken shelter elsewhere. Even so, it would take Cryptic a better part of a year (at this rate) to implement the Foundry and rebuild the database. The new Foundry would mostly be comprised of new authors, as many of us have trust issues with Cryptic.
Authors will come and go, regardless if the foundry switched off or not - and I'm sure there are a bunch of creative new bloods who will be itching to try it out.
Unfortunately I think the main reason it went away in the first place relates more to funding/hardware/resources. Almost the same reason why Cryptic themselves like reusing maps just with a new dressing.
As an example this Infernal Descent mod patch was pretty big. How many map zones came with it... 5 - 6? If I count all the map zones in my own foundry list below that's 15+... and I'm just one author.
Perhaps a limited release to people that apply for it and prove their worth in one module (made in a time limit) would be the solution - but it's a very manual one. If this was the case though I would definitely put sandukutupu at the top of the list due to your active history of player-run events.
I'm all for them putting more time into a mod, as long as it's better than the last 3 they spewed out:
Mod 16...major changes that took getting used to...some fun, but more ME grind than anything else.
Mod 17 (more like 16.5)...not much to offer at all other than ToMM and better companion gear.
Mod 18...+APE!
They NEED to fix all the bugs...not just a few here and there. Fix the game first, then worry about adding content, otherwise the bugs end up being embedded into the new mod.
Comments
There is not much point in it, tho, because while I do not really know or care for their business structure I don't think Cryptic is responsible for it (PW I guess). They theoretically don't have to present it in any way or shape, maybe they can't, even. Who knows. That's beside your point, I know, but devs are generally not equipped to advertise something. No offense intended, thats just not in the job description.
It would also create a bit of a twisted illusion to hype hype hype up this mod when it is very clear NW is in a in-between state where things could easily go amiss. Understatement is the way to go in this, also in gaining anything back, reputation, trust, name it. They have to deliver first this time, and no matter how good you present it, it could backfire if the community is not backing it up. Reddit, Twitch, Discord, Youtube, whatever. We all know how fast bad news travel, and how slow good news do in comparison.
Generally, I would agree with you on a positive attitude to sell whatever it is you have to sell, but it 1) probably isn't what they got CW for, probably got enough on his plate as it is 2) the wrong image in the current state of the game.
Better let the players slowly find out that the stuff they complained about is wrong or not what they painted it to be (if @nooneatza is right, he usually is, I can't tell at this point) than telling them it is great, cause that could heavily backfire.
There were cases of this, not (only) in NW specifically, but in other games, where the best CGI promoted mods accompanied by streams and a "hype" and all the "right" steps backfired and Underdogs turned out quite well.
If they can do understatement well (I'm not sure about it atm, all things considered, but still optimistic) it will turn out great.
There was no funeral attitude.
WoW has turned out to be almost unplayable with latest patch
FFXIV has a content drought and they reduced the amount of dungeons per patch from 2 to 1 and they have not delivered the glamour options as they promised for new race, people are waiting 8 months already to have more customization options.
The industry itself is a rotting tomato, all games are in deep shait.
I don't know where everyone gets the idea that it is "written" somewhere they must make 3 modules per year or anything for that matter. New Executive Producer Chris Whiteside stated, he would like to reduce it to 2 modules per year. But I would applaud no more modules until the game is repaired. We have a long laundry list of fixes that covers PvP, builds, companions, gear, GUI, network issues, etc..
Are you really telling me you want to continue to watch the game degrade as opposed to fixing it? I for one, would welcome a year of nothing but bug fixes and repairs. Remember this is not your game, it belongs to Cryptic. We are lucky, if they don't halt all content as soon as their Magic MMO hits the streets.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Time index 42:14 he cups his hands and says, "This is something we are discussing at the moment. Maybe only 2 modules per year..."
I posted the link to start at 41:20 to get the full Q&A but that time thing didn't work here.
Just killing time...
Here is a quote from Chris in the CDP thread "We will be releasing a high level road map in the next two weeks. The focus is on release quality, player experience and evolving the game together moving forward so we have to be realistic about how we develop. The plan is two big mods a year with new focused content every two months. As we get better (all of us) with this model we will be able to add more content and maybe have a faster release cadence. A lot of info is in the Accesibility CDP in regard to this.
Chris"
I am in favor of his plan, Neverwinter chews through these modules, like Chinese food, and gains nothing from the meal. I only wish that Chris had been on board with Cryptic more than a year ago. He might have seen the folly of those who tossed out the Foundry. Say what you like, but the Foundry is where they kept the in between snacks for this game. Less than a week after players beat module 16, they looked around and said, "That's it?" and they took off. Same with module 17, "Burp! What's next?". Then you read the forums and early as October there was posts wanting module 18 to drop before 2020, because "they are under contract for 3 modules per year". I have no clue about any such contract and apparently none of you do either. But guess what? A lot of you never heard of a Fiscal year I bet... look it up. Now you (the player base) are doing it again. "Whaaa! We are going to starve to death!".
As I understand it, Chris is talking about micro content (such as the Foundry was) being released over the course of this year. I hope he gets his way, I don't know, if there are enough people staffed at Cryptic to pump out the needed amount of moo juice to suppress the masses. At this late point in the journey, it is up to the Cryptic staff to write up a mess of mini content, and not outsource it for free as it worked always worked before.
Before I go, I wish to point out to those who think "there is nothing to do" without modules, I make my own adventures. Currently I am in full swing of hosting the Ironcrown Contest. While you brood about the lack of content, I am still creating it. Click my siggy. This is what I did when the Foundry was up and running, sad there is no way for me to ever create contests like that ever again.
Have Fun
I mean last year we had 4 or 5 Tales events and lots of Call to Arms - that's actually a lot. If wasn't communicated properly, at least I and many others missed farming the first Tales events since it wasn't clear how good the artifacts were. Add Hellpit, up the rewards and you have like 20 relevant events per year, that's around 2 per months with major events like the Jubilee and Summer event in between. Now of course as you said they have to figure out where to spend resources, which events are worth to rework and it also doesn't hurt to tie in events like Hellpit into Avernus, which was a pretty good idea if you ask me.
Adding in small story line packs for each mod as a continued story line is fine too. It has the potential to make the campaigns much larger and meaningful. So I'm all for small content releases in between mod releases.
They just need to totally get a way from design structures that aren't fun. Time gates are not fun. Heroic encounters are not fun. Also causing 90% of your item database to become obsolete isn't fun and its confusing to new players. I don't know how many times per week when I run into a new player who is chasing an item from an outdated mod. I warn them too, I tell them that the info I am about to tell them might upset them when they discover the item they are chasing is obsolete and there is a newer better counterpart item that is even easier to obtain. I do this to prevent their frustration by not saying anything to save their time. I am sure there are countless players who quit because no one told them their plans for gear was a waste of time.
They need to completely restructure how older items function. Either allow a method to "raise" older items to be equivalent or competitive with new items or a way to convert older items into newest mod seals where players can obtain the new gear by sacrificing older items.
They also need to get rid of refinement points as rewards, refinement points are not rewards. They need to remove these from lock boxes too. Do we need refinement? Sure, and yes, but its not a reward because there comes a time in a character progression where refinement isn't needed anymore yet 90% of our rewards is nothing but refinement points.
Mags is spot on...we’ve had HAMSTER content updates since 16 dropped. Mod 18 IS a rehash of OLD CONTENT. The new equipment is mostly garbage and only the dungeon is a saving grace.
There are soooooooo many bugs in this game, some YEARS old and you white knights are actually cheerleading this debacle.
I really hope it's nothing like GW2s "Living Story" - limited time events that advance world plot which if you miss... well... you miss. No repeats. No flash backs. I absolutely hate that method and was one of the reasons I quit GW2.
Stuff like Hell Pit or Neverwinter Siege that doesn't advance plot and repeats is fine. Re-introducing the foundry would be the best!
Off topic: I tried GW2 but I am an old school Guild Wars girl, the interface, the feel, the lore, PvP, just everything felt "wrong" somehow when I played the sequel. Heroes became villains and villains became heroes, they threw out the old game, and started something new and it just wasn't Guild Wars anymore. I still play Guild Wars PvP weekend in Fort Aspenwood there is about 4,800 of us still playing the original.
Unfortunately I think the main reason it went away in the first place relates more to funding/hardware/resources. Almost the same reason why Cryptic themselves like reusing maps just with a new dressing.
As an example this Infernal Descent mod patch was pretty big. How many map zones came with it... 5 - 6? If I count all the map zones in my own foundry list below that's 15+... and I'm just one author.
Perhaps a limited release to people that apply for it and prove their worth in one module (made in a time limit) would be the solution - but it's a very manual one. If this was the case though I would definitely put sandukutupu at the top of the list due to your active history of player-run events.
Mod 16...major changes that took getting used to...some fun, but more ME grind than anything else.
Mod 17 (more like 16.5)...not much to offer at all other than ToMM and better companion gear.
Mod 18...+APE!
They NEED to fix all the bugs...not just a few here and there. Fix the game first, then worry about adding content, otherwise the bugs end up being embedded into the new mod.