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Increase in rough AD earnable but no increase in daily amount of rough AD convertable to AD .. WHY?

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  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,667 Arc User

    On the other thread when I said the CW can not AoE anymore and the total damage output should not ignore the AoE I had 20 responses about how stupid I am.
    Of course, nobody said that CW can AoE, or that AoE should not matter , but keep on calling me in a word - stupid all the same.
    Here I said that the drops from dungeons are useless, that for 2 mods we had Zok boxes instead of hunting and the Ad cap makes impossible to advance in any meaningful way- all obvious facts.
    But , hey , it is perfect like this , because you need to appear important.
    .

    Cryptic set up a framework and you are playing under it. You can keep on lobbying what you want. Unless they change it, you still cannot "advance in any meaningful way". So, you have a few options:

    1. keep on lobbying while not advancing in any meaningful way
    2. quit the game
    3. find ways under the framework to advance.
  • akemnosakemnos Member Posts: 597 Arc User

    On the other thread when I said the CW can not AoE anymore and the total damage output should not ignore the AoE I had 20 responses about how stupid I am.
    Of course, nobody said that CW can AoE, or that AoE should not matter , but keep on calling me in a word - stupid all the same.
    Here I said that the drops from dungeons are useless, that for 2 mods we had Zok boxes instead of hunting and the Ad cap makes impossible to advance in any meaningful way- all obvious facts.
    But , hey , it is perfect like this , because you need to appear important.
    .

    I do not know what went on in some random CW thread so i am going to ignore that but for the rest, yes Zok Boxes have been a large part of the last 2 modules, no one denies that but that does not stop people to "advance in any meaningful way"

    Since mod 16 dropped i have made ~8 million AD. Considering i typically play only weekends. Occasionally i will get on just after work and run WE/ME but not all the time. I will also admit that ~3 million was from a single lockbox drop but that still leaves me with a 5 million AD profit in basically just weekend playing.

    It is not that hard to progress in this game and upgrade your characters. If you are worried about upgrading multiple characters at a time then maybe it gets a little tougher but overall it is not a difficult thing unless you are expecting to go from fresh 80 to BIS in a couple weeks.


    The game has had an AD cap of some sort in the game since it was launched. At some times it was easier to make AD and at some times it was tougher but a lot of people have already gone through this at some point and we were able to upgrade their characters.
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    The biggest problem here is your assumption that there is any sort of free market economy in place here. There is not.

    Example. I have 100 Priceless Platinum Bowls. I sell them to a vendor in PE for 34s18c each. I return a week later and sell them again, along with hundreds of other players. The vendor keeps paying the same price. In fact, *all* the vendors will give me 34s18c for 1 bowl. Always. Regardless of how many they have bought recently. There is zero price elasticity.

    Now, move that to Gold Bars - always 1g to buy or sell. Always. Regardless of supply / demand. On the plus side, this let's us peg 1g = ~290-300 AD, based on AH prices, which makes 1 zen = ~2.55g.

    So, stop trying to talk about any sort of free market here. It isn't. rAD and gold are magically created out of thin air for players, with no limits on how much can be created by the population at large.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,667 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    cdnbison said:

    The biggest problem here is your assumption that there is any sort of free market economy in place here. There is not.

    Example. I have 100 Priceless Platinum Bowls. I sell them to a vendor in PE for 34s18c each. I return a week later and sell them again, along with hundreds of other players. The vendor keeps paying the same price. In fact, *all* the vendors will give me 34s18c for 1 bowl. Always. Regardless of how many they have bought recently. There is zero price elasticity.

    Now, move that to Gold Bars - always 1g to buy or sell. Always. Regardless of supply / demand. On the plus side, this let's us peg 1g = ~290-300 AD, based on AH prices, which makes 1 zen = ~2.55g.

    So, stop trying to talk about any sort of free market here. It isn't. rAD and gold are magically created out of thin air for players, with no limits on how much can be created by the population at large.

    Gold is not part of the 'free' market currency. Trading in AH using AD is. Priceless Platinum Bowls has its up and down price in AH. Priceless Platinum Bowls was something I used to sell and know about its up and down price. The reason why it is sold and is bought in AH is its 'fixed' gold value. Otherwise, it would have no value in AH at all. Same for Gold bar in AH. Gold bar was created (right at the time of the new Workshop) so that gold can be traded within AH to get AD. We could not trade gold in AH before that point.

    If you want to provide an example to illustrate your point (and IMO, it is valid), use something that is traded using AD.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,231 Arc User
    Gold bar isn't tied to a fixed price, it is literally the price. A gold bar is one gold piece because that is how much gold is in it. This is just a game convenience to allow that gold piece to be placed on the AH.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User


    Gold is not part of the 'free' market currency. Trading in AH using AD is. Priceless Platinum Bowls has its up and down price in AH. Priceless Platinum Bowls was something I used to sell and know about its up and down price. The reason why it is sold and is bought in AH is its 'fixed' gold value. Otherwise, it would have no value in AH at all. Same for Gold bar in AH. Gold bar was created (right at the time of the new Workshop) so that gold can be traded within AH to get AD. We could not trade gold in AH before that point.

    If you want to provide an example to illustrate your point (and IMO, it is valid), use something that is traded using AD.

    That's just it, though - Gold Bars *are* traded on the AH using AD - and there is very little price elasticity there. It'll spike a bit during profession events, but in general, they hold at ~290AD/bar. It's still not a free market, otherwise the NW vendors would adjust the prices of gold bars as they are demanded more (or less). They don't. 1 gold bar is *always* 1g. Want to buy 1? 100? 10,000,000? 1g each, in infinite supply.

    And given that both AD and gold are produced infinitely, with zero limit on how much can or will be generated (beyond rAD refinement limits), any talk about NW being any sort of "free" market is laughable. You can't convince a different quest giver to give you more than what the first one offered for the same quest. You can't get a better "job" that lets you refine more that 100k rAD daily (income). You can't find a vendor to give you a better price on those bowls.

    So, as long as you can swap gold for AD via the AH, it holds - this isn't any sort of free market economy.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,667 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    cdnbison said:



    Gold is not part of the 'free' market currency. Trading in AH using AD is. Priceless Platinum Bowls has its up and down price in AH. Priceless Platinum Bowls was something I used to sell and know about its up and down price. The reason why it is sold and is bought in AH is its 'fixed' gold value. Otherwise, it would have no value in AH at all. Same for Gold bar in AH. Gold bar was created (right at the time of the new Workshop) so that gold can be traded within AH to get AD. We could not trade gold in AH before that point.

    If you want to provide an example to illustrate your point (and IMO, it is valid), use something that is traded using AD.

    That's just it, though - Gold Bars *are* traded on the AH using AD - and there is very little price elasticity there. It'll spike a bit during profession events, but in general, they hold at ~290AD/bar. It's still not a free market, otherwise the NW vendors would adjust the prices of gold bars as they are demanded more (or less). They don't. 1 gold bar is *always* 1g. Want to buy 1? 100? 10,000,000? 1g each, in infinite supply.

    And given that both AD and gold are produced infinitely, with zero limit on how much can or will be generated (beyond rAD refinement limits), any talk about NW being any sort of "free" market is laughable. You can't convince a different quest giver to give you more than what the first one offered for the same quest. You can't get a better "job" that lets you refine more that 100k rAD daily (income). You can't find a vendor to give you a better price on those bowls.

    So, as long as you can swap gold for AD via the AH, it holds - this isn't any sort of free market economy.
    NPC, no. It is like a vending machine. When the price is set, it stays there until its owner (Cryptic) changes it. Yes, they did change the gold price for many items in their vending machines recently. Not often though.
    So, vending machine is never a free market when all the vending machines are owned by one owner. By definition, it is a monopoly.

    Real player who trades in AH can set whatever price he wants.

    For Gold bar, it is just a piece of gold. It is like trading a 1 dollar bill to 10 dime. Will the "price" of the dollar bill be changed to 9 dime or 11 dime? Did US QE1,2,3 make the "price" of dollar changed to worth more dime or less dime? Gold bar is the only item that can be bought/sold with the vendor without lose. You cannot buy any other item from the vendor and then sell the same item back to vendor without lose.

    Trading the gold bar in AH is like trading US dollar with Canadian dollar with whatever current exchange rate that includes 10% exchange fee. In general, it is held at around 1.30.
    Post edited by plasticbat on
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited November 2019

    On the other thread when I said the CW can not AoE anymore and the total damage output should not ignore the AoE I had 20 responses about how stupid I am.
    Of course, nobody said that CW can AoE, or that AoE should not matter , but keep on calling me in a word - stupid all the same.
    Here I said that the drops from dungeons are useless, that for 2 mods we had Zok boxes instead of hunting and the Ad cap makes impossible to advance in any meaningful way- all obvious facts.
    But , hey , it is perfect like this , because you need to appear important.
    .

    I'm so sorry for picking a random comment of yours, but my heart hurts so bad reading your posts with arms and legs but no head.

    What proof do you want, that if the economy is allowed to generate more AD than it sinks per day, then that will cause prices to inflate and this will backfire newbies the most? What proof do you need that if everyone had millions in their wallets then prices wont go higher?

    Take for example an item has 100 listings on AH. 50 of those are not bought because the playerbase cannot afford it, the rest are not bought for other factors. If everyone had the money to buy the items that they previously couldn't, what do you think will happen to the price of that item? In a way, no rAD limit will increase demand as players at end game are able to earn faster and more money and prices will thus raise higher as demand is increased, making it harder for new players to compete with less ways of earning rAD and that even much slower.

    We can say that the increase in GDP is a money illusion. – True you have more money, but if everything is more expensive, you are not any better off!!!!!!

    The next thing that comes out of your finger tips better not be "proof"....
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