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Overpowered Armor Enchantment and Artifact

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  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    What a load. Handy DC on your team... Another teammate with a sigil, or a lion mount... Basically all your post says is "Hey, I've got one. It's cool ok..?"

    Available to everyone..? Sure, if you can be bothered to level an OP alt.

    For all your talk of skill and tactics you're actually defending the concept that it's okay for matches to be won or lost simply based on the possession of a single item, or it's lack.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • 1)Sigil of the paladin
    wheel of element

    I would like to introduce a new property in those items. it is probably engine thing, but let just mention it in this topic and see if DEV will pick up it in future patches.

    The new property would be "work for any players"
    it mean that sigil of the paladin would heal foes too as well as enemies.
    Wheel of elements buffs could be stolen by enemies.

    if you use it to safe yourself you can also help your enemy. It still have some flaws but its not for me to judge them.
    This change bigest advantege is that we wont make those two items totaly useless in case of nerfing.

    I think there are more items like this that could have the same change but i dont mention them.
    Put as many likes on this post :cold_sweat: to make it visible
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    If journals are so powerful... why do I see so many op sigils..? Don't tell me no-one else has them lol.

    Deflect much..?
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    i think its more they/pugs lack the enchants to touch you in the pally sigil rather then the skill..lol
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Exactly.

    Sure OP sigil will help you against pugs, where they swarm on top of you, and all you have to do is pop it, and just move around so they wont hit you, cuz they lack skill to even touch you.

    Glad we agree, that since pugs are the future of pvp by means of boosting the playerbase, that making the op sigil less effective in pvp, along with whatever else is overpowered, including journals if you like, would be good for pvp in the long run.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    I hope nobody here is defending OP sigil, that thing is the single most powerful active artifact in PvP and has to be nerfed. Even if it was a personal only heal it would still be too strong. Journals have been and are very strong, nowadays overshadowed by others as active but obviously bis for stats. Introducing items this strong with a hard to obtain, PvE only status is stupid, but sadly, Cryptic has never seemed to care.

    Shadowclad is also obviously overpowered, its only alternative being the bugged soulforged. As it stands now however, the sigil is by far the worst offender of all of these and should get nerfed asap. I've always been amazed by how incredibly slow Cryptic's responses are -- in cases like this, all you have to do is change one single numeric value, which for someone familiar with the scripting of the game should take about 20 seconds including looking for and opening the file?
    Post edited by gweddry on
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    > @gweddry said:
    > Shadowclad is also obviously overpowered, its only alternative being the bugged soulforged. As it stands now however, the sigil is by far the worst offender of all of these and should get nerfed asap. I've always been amazed by how incredibly slow Cryptic's responses are -- in cases like this, all you have to do is change one single numeric value, which for someone familiar with the scripting of the game should take about 20 seconds including looking for and opening the file?

    Its not that sc Is overpowered, Is that the other enchants were nerfed to useless. Eclipse used to give a bunch of deflect%, now ir gives a small ammount of deflect comparable to a defensive enchant. Negation is the same as sc but without the deflect. Fireburst, frostburn and tunderhead are plain horrible
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    > @barbie#2808 said:
    > (Quote)

    > 2. Journals
    > are way more important than OP sigil/ Shadowclad.

    Why do you have such a big problem with the journal? Its just a bit of stun and its actually one of the few that Is affected by cc resist
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 462 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Please fix OP sigil. Its ruining otherwise good matches. Now 3-4 on a team is common. Tested in 1 match, 1 sigil alone healed for 1.1 million. 3 were on the team.


  • animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited September 2019



    ok i will explain it again like it is for kids

    You have stats and counter stats...

    Now If you are BiS and you are building for DPS, and you have some brain cells you are obviously going to go for Offensive stats, reason why would you go for Defensive stats it would be for 1 reason, and that is simple, so you won't die from PUGS that stack stats randomly with no knowledge whatsover on how stats work.

    usually offensive stats look like this on a BiS toon

    70k power
    60k Armor pen
    90k crit strike.

    If you play DPS and you want to counter stat the offensive stats you are obviously doing it wrong.

    Even if you aren't BiS, these BiS players usually are glass cannon, so even if u are around 40k Armor pen and 60k Crit strike, you should do fairly well good damage on them.

    talking about overpowered items?

    Shadowclad, well mostly of you have no idea what's wrong with it, but i will tell you whats wrong with it since you guys kno how to cry, most of the problem with it isn't the stealth, since its based on deflect, and not many classes build deflect, and they shouldn't , and why you shouldn't build deflect is simple, is because you want those Damage Resistance stacks, those stacks are easy to get up to 8, and you definitely want to get them, reason of that is simple, the Damage Resistance from Shadowclad can't be penetrated if it goes above your DR.

    OP sigil, it is strong, but it isn't providing more heal than you take damage, on this premise you might say that clerics/paladins heal stronger than they should. which this is a fact.. while Sigil of OP is strong, its strong only for the simple fact that no one knows how to build their class, even if you aren't bis, they still have problems building their stats, build for more damage...

    look at Marigold Rogue for example, you go pop ur OP sigil + PVP heal Potion and Lion and she is going to still one shot you...

    the problem is simple
    1. Build your stats correctly
    2. Once you burst the OP sigil means nothing.

    And yes, Shadowclad is the way to boost your offence and not being a glass cannon. Now you actually may not care about your defencive stats, SC will boost you enough in survability.

    Cryptic has strictly nerfed players's survivability in PvP: Companion's bonuses were removed, stamina regen being nerfed, incoming healing was reduced too, and players now does a full damage/crit.dmg to each other. Combat powers and Daily powers were boosted, so obviously if you have missed your dodge and took a full rotation by your face, you are dead.

    Shadowclad is ruining the idea. It gives TOO MUCH deflection and damage resistance. If you have that, you able to stand in OP Sigil's area and exactly you will not take as much damage as OP sigil heals back. You may even ignore incoming Combat and Daily powers, cuz they will not harm you too much. And exactly you may say: "Well i'm alive, you are dead, so learn how to play and build your stats correctly".
    Post edited by animamundi24 on
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 462 Arc User
    Honestly, a lot that were using shadowclad have now switched to soulforged do to the bugged immunity period. 2-3 a match have soulforged a round on opposing team now. There are many aspects overpowered in pvp. Right now the flavor of the month/season is OP sigil/soulforged combo. If they still die, they pull out drains too.
  • animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Well, for example, I expect to kill those who are DPS without defensive stats, but they took a Shadowclad enchantment and saying "afk you, beach!". I actually can defeat any player with 25k+ total item level and 14+ rank enchantments, I should be hitting 150k+ and i do, BUT only if they don't use Shadowclad, which makes them unbeatable. Imagine that you fight in 1 vs 1 combat, you suffer full damage, but your opponent suffers x3-x4 times lesser damage, and may simply disappear while you cast your rotation, getting healed by Sigil+potion to max HP, and you surely lost all your shield/stamina and half of HP already, and your powers went in cooldown, and = SURPRISE, CAMPFIREAFKER! = you being controlled and killed. Great!

    Shadowclad became obsolete in PvP, you either have it or die/lose streak. Sad.
    Post edited by animamundi24 on
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 462 Arc User
    One of the biggest problems with shadowclad is the increase in deflect and the impacts. At rank 12, it gives 14% x8 stacks of your rating, say you have 20k deflect. It adds 22.4 deflect and makes the mount insignia bonus survivor's blessing heal off the chart.
  • animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    stark760 said:

    One of the biggest problems with shadowclad is the increase in deflect and the impacts. At rank 12, it gives 14% x8 stacks of your rating, say you have 20k deflect. It adds 22.4 deflect and makes the mount insignia bonus survivor's blessing heal off the chart.

    One is the biggest, another two is big, no matter. Insignia bonus, stealth-stun, deflect, resistance.... It gives too much. I've defeated NO ONE of Shadowclad+OP Sigil users, unless that subhuman has 5% health remaining, which is almost never.
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 462 Arc User

    stark760 said:

    One of the biggest problems with shadowclad is the increase in deflect and the impacts. At rank 12, it gives 14% x8 stacks of your rating, say you have 20k deflect. It adds 22.4 deflect and makes the mount insignia bonus survivor's blessing heal off the chart.

    One is the biggest, another two is big, no matter. Insignia bonus, stealth-stun, deflect, resistance.... It gives too much. I've defeated NO ONE of Shadowclad+OP Sigil users, unless that subhuman has 5% health remaining, which is almost never.
    It's definitely discouraging. When the soulforged brings them back immune, for longer than it should, also annoying. Both nned to be looked at, the soulforged for too long immune, and shadowclad should have some type of cooldown, maybe every 15-20-30 secs or something. Both become a totally different monster when combined with the sigil. I can live with having to break through the deflect of shadowclad or rez from soulforged, but then to have the sigil insta-heal, and then it negates the arbiter gloves from procing that the enemy got 25% heals somehow, that stinks.
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 462 Arc User

    > @stark760 said:

    > One of the biggest problems with shadowclad is the increase in deflect and the impacts. At rank 12, it gives 14% x8 stacks of your rating, say you have 20k deflect. It adds 22.4 deflect and makes the mount insignia bonus survivor's blessing heal off the chart.



    I already mentioned in here abouy shadowclad, dps players that is fairly doing well will ever stack deflect, and normally accuracy of enemies is going to outpass ur deflect, so the deflect gained from shadowclad is insignificant, what matters the most is the Damage Resistance, and its better for most of DPS to not focus on the Stealth part, but on how much DR we obtain from it. Thats why its being used.. not bcuz of stealth.. also question is why dont you use a shadowclad?



    Anyway i seen fights between 2 dps players going at eachother that have shadowclad, op sigil, lion etc. And there is still a winner.

    I do use shadowclad, since 2 months ago. If don't have it, get rolled by everyone that does, and mostly my elven battle is bugged. I still wont resort to soulforged, OP sigil, Pig/Bulette pup in stardock. Accidentally had elven battle on in PVP when I forgot to switch, noticeable diff. And sorry, you're wrong about the accuracy...haven't seen anyone "stacking" accuracy to anything near 30k. Seen it said multiple times, have 18-20k deflect and let shadowclad do the rest...and theyre right. Nothing pumps your accuracy over 100% to offset it, so why bother building a dead stat that cant combat the increase from shadowclad.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    @barbie
    Sigil is broken. Sorry to contraddict you, but i've seen countless combos of broken items in PvP, and every time there were players saying exactly what you say now: those items are fine, it's you guys who "do not know how to play and build". Too bad for you i've read exactly one of those "best PvPers" you talk about, admitting that sigil is too powerful. Another guy provided you the numbers above. You mix issues. Obviously those items are not the only issue. But they contribute to the lack of balance. Other factors are drains obviously. Journals. GWF stuns bugged going through immunities (i play a GWF).
    This said, the old "damn pugs" argument is laughable.

    - It's ok that dedicated premade PvPers test hours and hours their build, play vs, play premades and have more experience. Still, there should be limitations in PvP that do not allow a BiS PvPer to kill 3-4 "pugs" alone in a 4v1. Not even in a 2v1. The devs said it time ago. Their aim was to make PvP so that no matter the gear/build/experience, if 3 enemies gang up on you, you should die, period. Kill one may be. What do we still see nowadays? Same old story as in old modules: immortal BiS players, who almost never die (more in the past, but still not enough), even when ganged up by multiple players. You say, cause they are "pugs". Which brings us to 2nd point.

    - PvP was never meant to be something only some "elite" could safely play. It's endgame. But since mod1 it's been beyond endgame. You need more than being a PvE endgame player to even step into PvP and do something. To old elitists, which were like you, it was never enough. You either were a BiS premade player, or you were a "pug" who souldn't even step into PvP, and "learn to play and build the toon". Which means, for elitists, do the same as they do: test hours and hours, play premades and use premade tactics. There's nothing in the middle. Jon is a strong and experienced player. But to players like you he's obviously a bad player. 5 good players in PvP you say. That's fine. Queue only those 5 players and see how much PvP you play.
    That's exactly what happened in these years. I've read tons and tons of BS about pugs here, pugs there, how pugs ruin PvP. Read 2 idiot old BiS players saying "too many weak players these days, i hope tomorrow there will be stronger players". That's the sort of behaviour that made PvP the desert it's today. Literally. That toxic mentality. Most "BiS" premade players go soloQ and then either get the easy win or start cursing their team mates, calling them pugs and insulting them. The only BiS player who coordinates the groups and try some teamwork is Jon Irenicus. Which i've seen. Other top PvPers just run up and down killing everything, and if their team is weaker they either kick someone or insult team mates. Not a word to team mates and new players about how to rotate, where to go, what to do (which would help those players to grow stronger and less "puggy").
    And that's the PvP elite in a nutshell: toxic, spoiled elitists that despise 99% of the playerbase. Problem is, once the "pugs" decided they had enough, PvP died, and became what it's now. Elitists are the 0,5% of the playerbase. You can't keep PvP alive with just that. And you can't expect every PvP player to put the same amount of testing and hours of premades and practice, elitists put into their PvP.
    The best part is that there's still normal queue. So, if those players are so in need of premades and need to stay away from "pugs", they can just form premades and queue in normal domination. Why then they go to soloQ, then complain that there are pugs there? Make peace with your brain, dudes.
    Not considering extreme cases of 14k players with blue leveling gear going to PvP, other players with endgame gear/ close to endgame gear, should safely go to PvP and be able to fight back and learn the mode. Period. We've already read enough elitist blabbering over the years, and we've seen where it brought PvP. Pugs ARE the PvP community. Elitists are a small % of dedicated players who should put out guides, work for real balance and teach teamwork to others when they play, instead of being toxic idiots who think they are gods among lowly humans, and treat other players like "commoners", while insulting them. Those players already killed PvP. Some are still around to finish the job i guess.

    - As usual, elitist PvPers want to balance PvP based on the extremes they see in their practice. So, if 2 BiS PvPers in top 5 are able to burst an enemy through sigil, then it must be fine. Too bad 99% of PvP players are NOT at the level of the top 5 ones and never will, because not everyone is a dedicated premade player with years of PvP experience. So, if an item can be overcome by the top 5 and not by the rest, it's broken. Sorry to give you the news. BiS premade players were also able to kill each others with T.Fey and T.Neg years ago. Too bad it was another broken combo that in normal matches/GG/Domination, made them play like gods, tanking multiple enemies with no problem. High rank shadowclad+sigil is almost the same. It makes CWs very tanky, very similar to old T.Fey+T.Neg combo, and other classes too. GWF stun bug is very similar to old roar mod 3 bug. And so on. I've seen enough stuff, and indeed, i was not wrong, and Jon was not wrong too. In fact, i saw one of your "top 5" talking about the fact that sigil was broken and if it should be used or not. Compared to wheel it's easier to use, adds more resistance to damage, and has no chance to miss (with wheel if you get pushed or moved, you can get the wrong buff for example)

    Right now, top 1 PvPer can probably 1v3 most players in page 2+. Should not be possible. The devs want a PvP where nobody can 1v3. Period. It's should be all about teamplay, strategy and rotating.
    Right now it's better than in the past, but still not enough.

    And for the 100th time: PvP is not the personal plaything of BiS premaders, and "pugs" are just "guests". It's the opposite. PvP is for the 99,5% of the normal playerbase. SoloQ in particular. 0,5% of BiS dedicated premade PvPers are "guests", and instead of being elitist or toxic, they should do their best to help others to improve, instead of insulting them or looking at them with some sort of aristocratic disgust.
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 462 Arc User

    Ever since with the new stats



    Stats and counter stats are important, if you dont build for that you will lack in damage alot.. those top 5 players are built for stats and counter stats, that is why they are 2-3 steps ahead of the pugs.. even if you nerf sigil down, there will be another artifact to use.. and tbh in a scenario of a 5v5 with only good players, i think there can be use better artifacts than the op sigil, only reason why sigil is strong is because pugs deal less to no damage.. so you tell me why?



    What is the reason why you are dealing low damage @pando83 @stark2k i mean why in a 2v1 you cant clear a good player?



    It is simple, its not them looking down on you, its you guys lookin down on them, you think "oh you are using that and this, thats the reason you are good" just get real and learn to build your class.. look on lancer stream i saw him fightin jon, blackmore etc and he won, but its easy to complain on forum, rather than learning how to play, anyway.. all of this talk is obsolete by now, theres new dmg formula on preview.. and i wonder if pugs will deal more dmg with this? Which i dont think its the case.

    If I was finishing bottom on the dps on ACT, you might have a point. But...keep talking out of your HAMSTER.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    Everything you wrote, wrong.
    You start with the usual old blabbering "you're not good at playing, don't give feedback exc...".
    You missed the part where i wrote that even a BiS top player stated that OP sigil is too powerful, in PvP chat.
    Other than that, i can tell you the same: you go here and there tellingeveryone that they are not good at playing. For players who use broken stuff in PvP, its always the other players who are not "good enough", and the stuff they use is fine. Wrong. I've read the exact same stuff years ago when T.Fey+T.Neg surfaced. Guess what. In the end that combo was indeed broken and got fixed. Same with every, single broken piece of gear/enchant or build that surfaced in these years. And every single time, before that stuff was fixed, i had to read replies like yours about how bad i am at playing. Too bad that in the end i was right every single time, and that, once stripped from broken stuff, the BiS players were much, much more similar to "normal" players.
    I am no dedicated PvPer, yet in NCL i ended up in top 40 of my class, testing an instigator build on purpose, with soulforged and plaguefire, when T.Fey+T.Neg was way more powerful. Ranked better than better geared enemies, playing more than 250 matches.
    In last leaderboard i ranked Invincible overlord, before it got reset.
    I don't really need you to tell me that i "can't give feedback" on PvP.
    According to what you say, only 10 players in this game should give PvP feedback. Which is the old BS i've read for years from premade players, while they were killing PvP. The point is, PvP is not for dedicated PvPers only, and must be balanced so that every player can do something, even with a PvE build. Being "optimized" for PvP should, according to the devs, never allow a player to win 1v3. Period. No matter how you balance the stats and what you wear.
    You also assume that i build my toon at the best for PvP. It's not that way since years. I currently use my PvE DPS build.
    I'm not a BiS player, not a dedicated PvPer. But i know PvP. Helped Icy with one of his old PvP builds, and he was one of those BiS top PvP players you speak about.
    So, while i do not claim to be the best or close to the best, i surely don't need to hear again people like you writing how bad all the other players are.
    Also, PvP is not just about builds and items. It's also about teamwork. In a soloQ environment, most of your "BiS" premade PvPers fail at working with their team, because they just expect players to already play like premade veterans. The first in leaderboard, Jon, instead, is way better at coordinating the team in any situation. I managed to rank high in NCL also because i could reverse a lot of matches coordinating the random teammates and sacrificing myself to hold nodes and buy time, to eventually win, instead of just thinking about K/D ratio.
    So, to sum it up, you wrote a load of useless stuff, with usual personal attacks without even noticing that i brought to you the example of a BiS dedicated PvPer saying the exact same things i say.
    No need to keep going. If that's all you have to say, i've already seen, read and discussed people like you in these 6 years. What is your handle in PvP, btw? So i can see how a player who can give feedback, can play. Just in case we meet.

    *edited for a mistake in the ranking. It was invicible overlord and not "overlord"
    Post edited by pando83 on
  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 276 Arc User


    Obviously everything is OP in scenarios like that, but strip away the pugs, and put good players and those will deal 250k hp dmg in 15s, like if you play barbarian you should deal 100k-250k dmg with your encounters, ur atwills should deal 10k-20k regularly.. but if you dont deal that, ofcourse op sigil is overpowered.. but in reality it isnt.. its just there are too many pugs..

    The sigil IS overpowered. It wins teamfights, tips the scales considerably in 1v1, extends stalemates grossly, it stacks when used on top of one another and probably more reasons that I'm forgetting now. This has nothing to do with good players or pugs, you shouldn't need to be bis dps spec to get around a broken item.

    As a side note -- maybe sigil nerf would help pugs have their damage actually stick? If there is an item or a group of items, especially hard to get ones, that literally make the have-nots unable to contribute, that's bad. Yes, some players can burst through sigils, which is, like I mentioned before, a separate balancing issue (e.g. TR burst, meta heavily favoring crit lottery). If I were to fight my clone who would have sigil (which I've never used), the clone would beat me significantly more often than not, and this is much more true for players that aren't bis dps build.
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