One major problem I see with the cryptic logic is that they assume everyone has empty char slots where they can make a healer. The ftp players only have 2 slots. If they already filled them with dps or tank, then they either have to spend rl money or they have to delete a char to make a healer. Probably not going to happen in most cases.
@arazith07 Thanks for taking the time to explain your points. I have a 25k Cleric, a 25.7k Paladin and a 24.7k Ranger. I also have multiples of every other class except SW. I disagree with several of your points, but that is your opinion and the way you play. I'm not here to try to teach you anything or tell you how you should play the game. Like I said I don't bother with Random Queues other than the occasional REQ to help out guildies or to farm LOMM, and those are always premade.
My points are as stated in several posts in this thread and others, I am not here for myself. I am here for the new players who are probably not yet aware of these forums, and yes they do die and struggle with RLQ and RIQ even if you don't. If I really had my way RLQ would be blocked entirely for anyone who already has a level 80 character. Those people are more than capable of farming AD in other queues and in other ways. TBH I could care less about people who are crying because they can't farm AD quickly anymore. I know there are better and much faster ways to make AD. Those people are not going to quit the game because of bad experiences in queues or increased queue times. New people will quit, and this game can not afford to lose new people. I have seen it happen all too many times.
The title of this thread is: THE MATHS OF THE NEW RANDOM QUEUE SYSTEM. So IMO all queues are relevant to this discussion.
Wow this post is so full of itself that i almost laughed out loud while reading it. Why the hell should anyone be blocked from running this content? Just because someone say has a level 80 Ranger, why block that person from running this queue, and then block him from running it on his level 45 cleric. All this would do is cut the amount of people running the queue down to negligible levels. if you think the queue time is bad now how bad do you think it would be when >75% of the population cant run the queue?
The Random Queues were made to specifically fight the low chance of a queue actually popping. People would spend an entire day in the old dungeon queues waiting for things like Cragmire Crypts to pop because literally no one else was queuing for them. For "being here" for the new players, what you just suggested would force them to quit even faster. Why continue playing a game when it seems like no one else actually is?
However, the random leveling queue is meant to be comfortable for new players to join in and learn how the game works. We made these adjustments so that the basics of tanking and healing would be reinforced early on, and so that the random leveling queue didn't lean so heavily towards only popping a handful of skirmishes because it would always build groups entirely out of DPS.
As long as you have a huge deviation of the actual player base from the "optimal composition" 60% dps, 20% healers, 20% tanks (we probably have ~80% dps, e.g. a huge surplus of dps), role bonuses in RLQ only help those players, that play the class in need, e.g. a healer (or tank).
You are saying, you want the RLQ "more comfortable" for the new players. Exactly the opposite is happening with the enforcement of the 3+1+1 role requirement for RLQ. - new players start with dps most of the time. Barb is the recommended class - new players only have a single toon, 80-90% of the time it will be a dps - NEW PLAYERS will suffer the LONGEST WAITS in RLQ (if they started with a dps) and they have NO ALTERNATIVE
What do you guess will happen to all the new players that chose a dps as their first toon and now want to do random queues to earn the AD they require?
Will they say: - This is a great game. - Its totally ok, that I cannot do the content I need to do, because every attempt to start an instance takes 30+ min.
I am really worried. Not for myself (I have a decent healer and tank who can get into the queues I want). But for the new players that we need so desperately, that the game continues
the increased time in the queues (if measured against mod 15) also caused by the tank and heals changes, the increased const on heals for pallys made like 50% of the pally healers from my alliance to disapear, that people just moved to other toons
The DPS patchs for Fighter and Clerics a re fun and that again works agains it more than 50% of the tank/fighters i know are playing DPS only because they hate the new tank playstyle... (My fighter is also included Here).
When you make harder to high end healers and Tanks to work you also make much harder to make them, the reasonis taht theres only 1Tank 1 healer they CANT fail, they NEED to be ready and noone is born ready...
when was easyer for End game healers to keep theyr tem mate alive was also much easyer for less well geared Pallys to work in hearder content, the way the thing where balanced killed the mid geared healers for hard stuff...
In life, we all can't get our dream jobs. Most people have settle for something else or they will starve or become homeless.
When you start to compare a bread and butter job (which is very different from getting a decent job though it is not your dream one) to the grind and farm part of a game, then something is very wrong about your relation to gaming. It shows that you don't have enough playtime to enjoy any fruit of your grind and farm or don't balance well between farm/grind and fun. Or maybe you actual realjob is chinese farmer ?
About the initial topic : Though i can understand why a large majority of players are complaining about the increasing waiting time, personnally "waiting" for a RQ to start doesn't really bother me too much because it's never an idle time. Obviously the reason is the way i play neverwinter, how i am involved in my guild/ally, and how i have "build" my account.
I never had any problem to make my daily 100k rAD, never really had to think about it since this limitation was implemented, and would likely stockpile massive rAD in excess "by accident" (allowing me to do some extended kind of "connect-vip bag-refine 100k rAD-pray once-disconnect" long breaks).
By the way, it's also not an issue for players who were new in december/january and who have since followed advices about "build your account", "make as much multipurpose as possible the tasks you start", "diversify", "play collectively with the ally" : after the jubilée, usually no problem for them to max their 100k rAD. Will be the same for "march-april-may" new players once we get past the black friday.
Patience, consistency and planning ahead to get to a good condition are keys. Or $€£.
Whenever i want to play any of my toon in a RQ without a premade party (i don't premade everyday : going in RQ solo is also a potential way to meet new nice people), i know it will take some time before the system will find me a 3-1-1 party, especially if i'm on a dps.
But i can have plenty to do during the waiting time : - guildstuff (influence, guildquests, check if the ressource buildings should be collected) - the 4500rAD weeklies combined with sybella's legacy quests combined with support stronghold quests - craft/gather MW ressources (i don't care not being in x2 professions) - campaigns if i'm on a toon i'm interested in and he hasn't finished everything yet - check the calendar to plan 1-2 months ahead for events in order to milk them the more I can - gather infos/economy/tips/strat/build/meta and compile those on discord/guild mail to help others - check the prices of various items and consummables on the AH, buy/sell things, store in common bank what i want to sell later. - probe for or prepare documents/rules/overviews/rewards for my inside ally semi-RP events (simili-olympiads, Miss&Mister elections, etc) - simply talk with people (guild/ally chat, discord, friendlist) - etc
And when "bong" the RQ can start, i accept right away. After all, the activities listed above can be droped unfinished (even in the middle of biggrin for exemple), and delayed for later today, tomorrow, next week... doesn't matter as they are fillers to avoid idle time.
If all my filler activities are done on the toon, and i'm still waiting, then i switch to another character and go premade.
I will never understand why and how a wide part of the players get to the idea that a MMORPG = game has to bring players to me so I can play.
Socialization has always been the real core of a MMORPG. Is it so difficult to meet, bond, and get premade parties with guild/ally/friends most of the time ? I didn't realize, but the people have become so socially disabled ?
the increased time in the queues (if measured against mod 15) also caused by the tank and heals changes, the increased const on heals for pallys made like 50% of the pally healers from my alliance to disapear, that people just moved to other toons
Or bench their toons and move on to other games.
I'm laughing as I'm trying to type this. I agree with most of what was said about how healing is this game has turned into a chore and, based on a few posts in other forum threads, almost completely unneccesary at endgame. When I see things like that, I'm left scratching my head and asking what is the point for any new players to create and play a healing character from beginning to end? When in two healer content, one is sufficient the response will be to swing Mjölnerf again and adjust them down even further until two are needed. Having a rippling effect from BiS on down for a role that's already fairly tedious to play. Then, they impose the 3-1-1 set up on events that really don't require them. Just priceless!
Change the queues back, Devs. No need to expose the new players and levelers to the hold up of the queues. They can taste that troll waste once they get to endgame and trying to grind their toon to BiS status. My two coppers.
Generally if I was ever in a group which got Merchant Prince Folly or Manycoins Bank Heist, I was happy to abandon skirmish if I could see it was going to fail, and take the 30 min timer hit and go and do something else. And rejoin the queue later. It was never a problem.
You trying to tell me that you never had MPF or Bank 2-3 times in a row? If that so you are RNG blessed....
I don't remember getting Bank twice in a row no.
And with MPF if I did get it twice in a row the second one I would grit my teeth and run it. Only ever failed once since random qs came in. That was a HAMSTER of a run though. Really amusing. Low DPS, no clue what to do. No healing. Trying to take down the t-rex for maybe 10 minutes. Multiple wipes. By the end I was laughing out loud
I never had a problem with any Q expect once I have seen a failed Bank Heist. That is it and I get Bank Heist and MPF on a regular basis. I'm also maxed out Wizard so it helps ensure the group beats content just fine. I use to run two sets of gear one with all rads and one with black ice / demonics to ensure I had the required stats in lower content but after playing around a bit I gave up using Rads do to the slight increase in damage I was getting over going with the other enchantment builds. I find that players who run with max power tend to under perform in lower content do to having lower than needed stats. Ran with plenty of 200k+ power players that did a 1/2 of my damage in lower content.
I think MPF and Bank Heist would be a bit easier if the devs actually did stat clamping vs. scaling. Clamping would cap us us if our stats exceed the maximum. Using Bank Heist as an example you need 57K for armor pen, crit, and accuracy. If I have say 68K but with scaling it drops down to 40K I'm not all that effective compared to a player who may have his or her stats lowered to say 53K.
Many players running the RLQ and RIQ simply don't have the bonding runestones or legendary companions to make up for the scaling of their stats. It is why I think the devs need to adjust scaling a bit if they remove the requirements for support roles for skirmishes.
The other thing I want to point is that RAD isn't what the bonus should be, it should be just Astral Diamond and there would be no cap when you run a random Q for that bonus. If the devs did that we would see more healers and tanks qing up for content.
lol 4 pages on this topic.... an most of them complaints.... an this issue aint even hit console yet lol.......... think they gunna change it back? (sarcasticly) noOoOoOoOoOooo PROB NOT just keep ecplaining and "justifying" these changes..... lol smh ring around the rosey anybody
The other thing I want to point is that RAD isn't what the bonus should be, it should be just Astral Diamond and there would be no cap when you run a random Q for that bonus. If the devs did that we would see more healers and tanks qing up for content.
Was more or less the case before the 100k rAD account wide refinement cap (before mod 14 it was character 36k cap + recycling purple and some of the blue stuff for rAD if i remember correctly).
People with an army of alts could do RLQ (or even before the random queues was implemented, cloak tower/ToS and eToS/eSoT multiple times) for hours, digging a HUGE gap in AD wealth between players with massive amount of playtime and casual players with no daily regularity or less than 1-2h of playtime + very high prices on AH (i can remember myself selling a lot of 99xblack perls for 8k to 10k AD, glorious legendary mount pack was something around 25M to 30M AD) + huge issues with boting/AD sellers on external websites. Back to this time, 2hours/day in RLQ (half of my playtime), jumping from an alt to another (and before random queues had appeared, 2 hours of eToS/Cloak tower) for me was between 500k to 800k AD/day. And it was not the most efficient way to farm rAD/AD... only one of the easiest.
Someone who was only able to do 50k AD/day before mod14 should be able to be the same amount nowdays (if he doesn't wait for ages the start of the random queues xD), but back then he was seeing things in AH 3x or 4x more expensive than today.
When the 100k limit was implemented i was not fond of it obviously, but i also aknowledge the fact that it has help my ally getting more populated, casual players (can't play much per day or can play only 2 days per week for exemple) were not droping the game as fast as they were before (because low hope without k$€£ to really one day be able to more or less catch up).
Make the role bonus direct AD, even once per toon, and yep, though it doesn't seem very efficient, i would probably throw some of my tanks (12 in my army) or some of my healers (10 in my alt army) a bit in RLQ and maybe sometimes RIQ (as they all have enough of basic equipment to do a reasonnable job), especially if VIP 15% bonus and 50% bonus from praying applied on the role AD. But we also may go back to dig a gap between casual and hardcore (on a more little scale though) and probably see prices rising a bit in general on AH.
If it is once per account per queue, that should maybe help a little bit to fluidify the RLQ and RIQ while not being a game breaker between harcore and casual, although with that i already see myself organizing rotations between me and ally/guildmates to share profits in RIQ/RAQ/REQ (so not really helping external people)
The new eventdungeon needs a tank/healer and 3 dds? are u kidding me how long should it take to done the 10 run each day 10 hour? im a new player but now im really done with this game
You seriously gave the Call to Arms event required Healers and Tank roles...LOL!!!! You guys have no idea about anything in the actual game do you. So not only did I have to wait for 30+ minutes to get into one on my TR Main, but I still need 10 a day...Awesome...
So I switch to my Fighter and figure what the hell I play this (a class I hate...and no, if theirs a class I hate more than tank its healer)...only to be informed that the Tokens are character bound...so all my previous work is null and void...f'ing brilliant.
Hi everyone, thanks for sharing your feedback and thoughts. We know that many of you are frustrated with the increased queue times, and I'd like to apologize for the increased wait times. We made changes to the required roles for skirmishes after looking over the data from the past few months: many groups randomly matched with non-standard group compositions had a lot more trouble with certain skirmishes. If we made adjustments to make those skirmishes easier, they would be absolutely trivial when the queue system put a standard group together, so after much debate we decided to enable role restrictions for public skirmishes instead.
As a result, queue times, specifically for the most populous role (DPS) have increased. In order to alleviate the issue, this Thursday's build will include the addition of role bonuses to the random leveling queue. Players who queue as the role most currently in need for the leveling queue will receive bonus rough AD. In addition, the leveling queue will correctly display the required roles.
We understand that there are certain skirmishes which are trivial even with a sub-optimal group composition, and that skilled players can get through almost any queue in the random leveling queue with not only a sub-optimal but an incomplete group. However, the random leveling queue is meant to be comfortable for new players to join in and learn how the game works. We made these adjustments so that the basics of tanking and healing would be reinforced early on, and so that the random leveling queue didn't lean so heavily towards only popping a handful of skirmishes because it would always build groups entirely out of DPS.
We believe that the addition of role bonuses along with the community adjusting to the changes over the next few weeks will greatly alleviate the increased queue times. We will continue to monitor the queue times moving forward and make any adjustments as needed, we appreciate your patience in the meantime!
@asterdahl i understand this above post about the Random queues but this does not help at all for non random queues. I have just read that this change is now affecting the new CTA event as well and that is game breaking.
Let say it is a 30 minute wait for the queue, that means to get 10 runs in i need to have 300 minutes of waiting time just to get my tokens. That means that for each day i need to be online for a minimum of 5 hours (as a dps) toon to get a single days token. While that might be feasible for me during the weekend it is definately not feasible during the week which means i am 100% unable to get all the available tokens.
Not to mention what happens when all the heals/tanks run out? I dont know what the actual numbers are but say the numbers thrown around like 70% dps, 20% tank, and 10% heals is accurate then that means after only 10% of the population gets their daily token the other 90% of the population is now unable to progress at all. The rewards for running the skirmish directly are underwhelming so i dont see a lot of people just continually running for the fun of it. If even some do it is still not nearly enough. Even if every single healer class ran this twice as many times as need that still means 80% of the population is unable to progress.
I am sure the entire population would rather seem the random failure than not being able to progress at all.
... or they simply move to another country, where they can at least get a job they actually enjoy.
Sure, some can do that if the see a better country and have the inclination to do so. But most will just stay at their soul-sucking job. Who knows, maybe some even get good at the job and learn to enjoy it.
Pay me 100 €/ h and I will quit my job and play a GF or DC for 8 h a day. As long as this is supposed to be fun, I play the class I want and not the one you want. My main is a CW, but I have a well geared DC and GF, too. I had to threaten a DPS player with a place on my ignore list, bc he did not stop complaining, how selfish I was, to level up my main first and not my DC. Really, what is up with this crowd? Every single one a single child with divorced parents fighting for their attention or what is the reason for this entitlement?
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
The thing is, I regularly am helping the new players in my guild. Running lower queues with them, giving them pointers etc. They are much more capable than a lot of higher geared players give them credit for. Especially when someone is there to point them in the right direction. Those who don't communicate only have themselves to blame.
Hi everyone, thanks for sharing your feedback and thoughts. We know that many of you are frustrated with the increased queue times, and I'd like to apologize for the increased wait times. We made changes to the required roles for skirmishes after looking over the data from the past few months: many groups randomly matched with non-standard group compositions had a lot more trouble with certain skirmishes. If we made adjustments to make those skirmishes easier, they would be absolutely trivial when the queue system put a standard group together, so after much debate we decided to enable role restrictions for public skirmishes instead.
As a result, queue times, specifically for the most populous role (DPS) have increased. In order to alleviate the issue, this Thursday's build will include the addition of role bonuses to the random leveling queue. Players who queue as the role most currently in need for the leveling queue will receive bonus rough AD. In addition, the leveling queue will correctly display the required roles.
We understand that there are certain skirmishes which are trivial even with a sub-optimal group composition, and that skilled players can get through almost any queue in the random leveling queue with not only a sub-optimal but an incomplete group. However, the random leveling queue is meant to be comfortable for new players to join in and learn how the game works. We made these adjustments so that the basics of tanking and healing would be reinforced early on, and so that the random leveling queue didn't lean so heavily towards only popping a handful of skirmishes because it would always build groups entirely out of DPS.
We believe that the addition of role bonuses along with the community adjusting to the changes over the next few weeks will greatly alleviate the increased queue times. We will continue to monitor the queue times moving forward and make any adjustments as needed, we appreciate your patience in the meantime!
@asterdahl i understand this above post about the Random queues but this does not help at all for non random queues. I have just read that this change is now affecting the new CTA event as well and that is game breaking.
Let say it is a 30 minute wait for the queue, that means to get 10 runs in i need to have 300 minutes of waiting time just to get my tokens. That means that for each day i need to be online for a minimum of 5 hours (as a dps) toon to get a single days token. While that might be feasible for me during the weekend it is definately not feasible during the week which means i am 100% unable to get all the available tokens.
Not to mention what happens when all the heals/tanks run out? I dont know what the actual numbers are but say the numbers thrown around like 70% dps, 20% tank, and 10% heals is accurate then that means after only 10% of the population gets their daily token the other 90% of the population is now unable to progress at all. The rewards for running the skirmish directly are underwhelming so i dont see a lot of people just continually running for the fun of it. If even some do it is still not nearly enough. Even if every single healer class ran this twice as many times as need that still means 80% of the population is unable to progress.
I am sure the entire population would rather seem the random failure than not being able to progress at all.
Math is a bit wrong here, for every healer, there are 3 dps and 1 tank that also gets the queue done. So using those numbers, once all the healers get their 10 runs in for the day, 50% of the pop is still needing the event, not 90%. Then if healers run twice, it's 20% of the pop (all of which are dps) that are left out. But ofc no one will actually do that, so we are left with 50% of the pop left out. Now this wouldn't be much of a problem if 1/7th of the DPS population convert to healers (even if just for the event), most wouldn't even have to switch characters to do this either, since clerics and warlocks can queue as both. That small shift in numbers causes a near 100% event participation and moves queues faster.
But enough with the double talk and let's cut to the chase, unless you and any other player that's supporting these changes have actually started spending more money on NWO, there isn't anything left to discuss.
Actually, I have not spent any money in years. With the RAD backlog I have, I don't think I ever will spend another dollar. I started mod 16 with a 7.5 million RAD backlog. It is down to 6.3 million now. Running REQ with "not fun" roles have worked out very well for me economically. And the fast RLQ/RIQ runs also helped keep the RAD burn rate low, till now.
And telling people if you don't like the waot time switch to your alt role, is what makes this community so toxic at times.
I mentioned that this was an option, and that even without switching equipment, in the leveling queue you can easily perform the healing and tanking roles. But I also stated very clearly that you don't have to switch. Regardless of whether you would like to switch, you will see the community as a whole adjust, with those who don't mind playing those roles trying them out more. We're already seeing this, yesterday we saw the number of tanks in queue actually rise over the DPS by ratio, meaning the tanks had a higher average wait time for a while. And that was before the role bonus was introduced.
Let say it is a 30 minute wait for the queue, that means to get 10 runs in i need to have 300 minutes of waiting time just to get my tokens.
Our current data shows that the average DPS wait time for the random leveling queue has stabilized at around 5 minutes. It tends to trend around 2 minutes during peak times, 3-4 minutes most of the rest of the day, with a few low periods around 6-8 minutes.
The wait times have also been trending downward as more players are playing tank and healer. As the role bonus was not yet implemented, there was no information given about what the in demand role was, and so far the number of tanks has increased significantly, resulting in tanks actually overpopulating the queue right now. With role bonuses we expect the number of healers to increase and the number of tanks to stabilize, as those willing to switch will now be able to switch to more accurately fill in the queue's current needs.
We are continuing to monitor the situation, if we were seeing averages anywhere close to 30 minutes, we would absolutely be taking more drastic measures. Please continue to send your feedback, and any exceptionally long wait times you may experience.
Our current data shows that the average DPS wait time for the random leveling queue has stabilized at around 5 minutes. It tends to trend around 2 minutes during peak times, 3-4 minutes most of the rest of the day, with a few low periods around 6-8 minutes.
Dont know what game is this wonderful times , but my waiting time as DPS in Neverwinter -RLQ-20+ min. RIQ-30+ min.
Today I try CTA and I waited 30+ min. to get in , and in the forum everybody or most have the same time to get into RQ's I only do these 2 RQ's , because it take too long to get in
Role restrictions in the cta PLUS a ten run requirement for every token - That's a big game over for the current cta season. I'm having a hard time believing that's actually happening.
yeah, i don't do random que's but I do directly que for dungeons I want to play. (Generally tong, but sometimes others) it's well over 30 minutes. sometimes never and I end up just doing something else. it's not too bad if you have a partial group already. but if you try to que solo it's not generally doable
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
I can solo it in 6 min... It take me more time to wait to go inside than to actually doing the cta... R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S
I can solo it in 6 min... It take me more time to wait to go inside than to actually doing the cta... R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S
This right here sounds like what I'll be doing. And seriously, 30 min wait time is just messed up. For a CTA event. Not even a dungeon run.
I'll take my main through and probably help my girlfriend get tokens. All the pugs out there trying to get their CTA completed, I wish you the best of luck.
As I wrote elsewhere, asking for a Minimum Stats requirement instead of Minimum Item Level requirement is an utopia. But there are simple solutions that can be done:
- When a queue, dungeon or trial is selected must be wrote in a CLEAR and HIGHLIGHTED way the minimum stats required per role, in order to make a player aware of the stats he/she needs to that queue, dungeon or trial; - Tank and Healer roles are not needed in every skirmish. The real needed thing is to balance some of them, like the ManyCoin Bank where adds can deal too many damage able to one-shot players; - As @oremonger#9999 said, levelling a Tank it's hard do to, especially if it's well built (for group content) and he/she needs to do the campaigns. To do a daily campaign quest can get lot of time because the Divinity and the lack of offensive stats (indeed a good tank well built for group content is focused on defensive stats and HP). End-Gamer players can switch a bit enough things like enchantments and/or companion gears and companion bonuses to do new campaigns, but a new player can't; - Must be added, at least for old dungeons and trials, a tooltip that explain their mechanics; - The suggestions in the L menu should be upgraded and must be HIGHLIGHTED the importance of BONDING RUNESTONES and Companion as well as the main stats needed per role. Normally happens that a new player get lost in the game, wasting lots of AD for not needed stuff and so on and not everyone check on Google, that's why they should be able to find all the informations they need IN the game.
I was really surprised logging in today to neverwinter to run the CTA bridge skirmish (I was not aware of the queue role requirements change). I signed up for a queue and was waiting about 3-5 minutes, and began wondering if it was broken.
and then I looked up the forums and found what was going on.
I generally play my main which is (now) a cleric arbiter. While I was waiting for the queue, I decided to set up the second loadout to a devout healer cleric (which I have never played). After setting that up, I tried the CTA queue and instantly got notification to join.
Each subsequent queue was almost instantaneous... it was sort of fun playing a healer, although I felt really bad, because I do not think I was very good and was learning along the way to the detriment of the fellow party members. honestly, I can now see the benefit though of having a healer in the party as opposed to 5 x dps (I remember running the last CTA garrandur and the instances with 5 x dps were either super quick or punishingly long and death-filled). it sort of annoys me that in order to get the CTA's done, I have to sacrifice playing the way that I am used to, but in a way, it is a good learning experience for me to play in a healing role.
one odd thing that happened was that after a few runs, someone invited me to their private queue to continue running the CTA. The queue's seemed to fill quickly, I am assuming because the cleric role was already satisfied?
I was wondering: could you join a queue in a healer role, but then use the campfire at entrance to switch loadout to dps?
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
@stoniar No. You can change loudout but cannot change role in random Q.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
Looks like they are trying to provide incentives for more tanks and healers at end game, and forcing those requirements into the lower Random Queues to enforce it and then hoping people will progress through to end game.
There would need to be a lot of incentive to end up with more healers. Not sure about OP, but DC heals has got to be the least amount of fun I have ever had playing a game. It is just god awful boring. I have a 24K DC and I have zero interest in making it end game worthy.
Fix the game play and maybe more people will play heals.
Tank is less HAMSTER but still.
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
> @lantern22 said: > Looks like they are trying to provide incentives for more tanks and healers at end game, and forcing those requirements into the lower Random Queues to enforce it and then hoping people will progress through to end game. > > There would need to be a lot of incentive to end up with more healers. Not sure about OP, but DC heals has got to be the least amount of fun I have ever had playing a game. It is just god awful boring. I have a 24K DC and I have zero interest in making it end game worthy. > > Fix the game play and maybe more people will play heals. > > Tank is less <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> but still.
NW post-Mod 15 DC Heal experience: Pray. Watch bars. Nothing? Okay. Pray. Pray. Tank is hurt! HEAL! Oh. He took a potion. Nevermind. He's fine. Pray. Watch HP bars. Ooh. Big AoE coming. DPS isn't dodging? YES! Finally. Boom! He's hurt! HEAL! HEAL! Alriiight... he's fine now... Pray. Pray...
Rinse and repeat. zzzzzzzzzz
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
7
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
> Looks like they are trying to provide incentives for more tanks and healers at end game, and forcing those requirements into the lower Random Queues to enforce it and then hoping people will progress through to end game.
>
> There would need to be a lot of incentive to end up with more healers. Not sure about OP, but DC heals has got to be the least amount of fun I have ever had playing a game. It is just god awful boring. I have a 24K DC and I have zero interest in making it end game worthy.
>
> Fix the game play and maybe more people will play heals.
>
> Tank is less <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> but still.
NW post-Mod 15
DC Heal experience:
Pray.
Watch bars.
Nothing?
Okay. Pray. Pray.
Tank is hurt! HEAL!
Oh. He took a potion.
Nevermind.
He's fine.
Pray.
Watch HP bars.
Ooh. Big AoE coming.
DPS isn't dodging?
YES! Finally.
Boom! He's hurt!
HEAL! HEAL!
Alriiight... he's fine now...
Pray. Pray...
Rinse and repeat.
zzzzzzzzzz
lol, that just about nails it. But I think you missed a couple of actions
Pray. OK divinity bar is full. Okay use crappy at-will for a while . . . . . . . .
Watch HP bars. Ooh. Big AoE coming. DPS isn't dodging? YES! Finally. Boom! He's dead! better go Rez Pray.
Jokes aside tho, Took's description just brilliantly sums up how boring it is
Comments
Wow this post is so full of itself that i almost laughed out loud while reading it. Why the hell should anyone be blocked from running this content? Just because someone say has a level 80 Ranger, why block that person from running this queue, and then block him from running it on his level 45 cleric. All this would do is cut the amount of people running the queue down to negligible levels. if you think the queue time is bad now how bad do you think it would be when >75% of the population cant run the queue?
The Random Queues were made to specifically fight the low chance of a queue actually popping. People would spend an entire day in the old dungeon queues waiting for things like Cragmire Crypts to pop because literally no one else was queuing for them. For "being here" for the new players, what you just suggested would force them to quit even faster. Why continue playing a game when it seems like no one else actually is?
You are saying, you want the RLQ "more comfortable" for the new players.
Exactly the opposite is happening with the enforcement of the 3+1+1 role requirement for RLQ.
- new players start with dps most of the time. Barb is the recommended class
- new players only have a single toon, 80-90% of the time it will be a dps
- NEW PLAYERS will suffer the LONGEST WAITS in RLQ (if they started with a dps) and they have NO ALTERNATIVE
What do you guess will happen to all the new players that chose a dps as their first toon and now want to do random queues to earn the AD they require?
Will they say:
- This is a great game.
- Its totally ok, that I cannot do the content I need to do, because every attempt to start an instance takes 30+ min.
I am really worried.
Not for myself (I have a decent healer and tank who can get into the queues I want).
But for the new players that we need so desperately, that the game continues
The DPS patchs for Fighter and Clerics a re fun and that again works agains it more than 50% of the tank/fighters i know are playing DPS only because they hate the new tank playstyle... (My fighter is also included Here).
When you make harder to high end healers and Tanks to work you also make much harder to make them, the reasonis taht theres only 1Tank 1 healer they CANT fail, they NEED to be ready and noone is born ready...
when was easyer for End game healers to keep theyr tem mate alive was also much easyer for less well geared Pallys to work in hearder content, the way the thing where balanced killed the mid geared healers for hard stuff...
It shows that you don't have enough playtime to enjoy any fruit of your grind and farm or don't balance well between farm/grind and fun.
Or maybe you actual realjob is chinese farmer ?
About the initial topic :
Though i can understand why a large majority of players are complaining about the increasing waiting time, personnally "waiting" for a RQ to start doesn't really bother me too much because it's never an idle time. Obviously the reason is the way i play neverwinter, how i am involved in my guild/ally, and how i have "build" my account.
I never had any problem to make my daily 100k rAD, never really had to think about it since this limitation was implemented, and would likely stockpile massive rAD in excess "by accident" (allowing me to do some extended kind of "connect-vip bag-refine 100k rAD-pray once-disconnect" long breaks).
By the way, it's also not an issue for players who were new in december/january and who have since followed advices about "build your account", "make as much multipurpose as possible the tasks you start", "diversify", "play collectively with the ally" : after the jubilée, usually no problem for them to max their 100k rAD. Will be the same for "march-april-may" new players once we get past the black friday.
Patience, consistency and planning ahead to get to a good condition are keys. Or $€£.
Whenever i want to play any of my toon in a RQ without a premade party (i don't premade everyday : going in RQ solo is also a potential way to meet new nice people), i know it will take some time before the system will find me a 3-1-1 party, especially if i'm on a dps.
But i can have plenty to do during the waiting time :
- guildstuff (influence, guildquests, check if the ressource buildings should be collected)
- the 4500rAD weeklies combined with sybella's legacy quests combined with support stronghold quests
- craft/gather MW ressources (i don't care not being in x2 professions)
- campaigns if i'm on a toon i'm interested in and he hasn't finished everything yet
- check the calendar to plan 1-2 months ahead for events in order to milk them the more I can
- gather infos/economy/tips/strat/build/meta and compile those on discord/guild mail to help others
- check the prices of various items and consummables on the AH, buy/sell things, store in common bank what i want to sell later.
- probe for or prepare documents/rules/overviews/rewards for my inside ally semi-RP events (simili-olympiads, Miss&Mister elections, etc)
- simply talk with people (guild/ally chat, discord, friendlist)
- etc
And when "bong" the RQ can start, i accept right away. After all, the activities listed above can be droped unfinished (even in the middle of biggrin for exemple), and delayed for later today, tomorrow, next week... doesn't matter as they are fillers to avoid idle time.
If all my filler activities are done on the toon, and i'm still waiting, then i switch to another character and go premade.
I will never understand why and how a wide part of the players get to the idea that a MMORPG = game has to bring players to me so I can play.
Socialization has always been the real core of a MMORPG.
Is it so difficult to meet, bond, and get premade parties with guild/ally/friends most of the time ?
I didn't realize, but the people have become so socially disabled ?
I'm laughing as I'm trying to type this. I agree with most of what was said about how healing is this game has turned into a chore and, based on a few posts in other forum threads, almost completely unneccesary at endgame. When I see things like that, I'm left scratching my head and asking what is the point for any new players to create and play a healing character from beginning to end? When in two healer content, one is sufficient the response will be to swing Mjölnerf again and adjust them down even further until two are needed. Having a rippling effect from BiS on down for a role that's already fairly tedious to play. Then, they impose the 3-1-1 set up on events that really don't require them. Just priceless!
Change the queues back, Devs. No need to expose the new players and levelers to the hold up of the queues. They can taste that troll waste once they get to endgame and trying to grind their toon to BiS status. My two coppers.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
I think MPF and Bank Heist would be a bit easier if the devs actually did stat clamping vs. scaling. Clamping would cap us us if our stats exceed the maximum. Using Bank Heist as an example you need 57K for armor pen, crit, and accuracy. If I have say 68K but with scaling it drops down to 40K I'm not all that effective compared to a player who may have his or her stats lowered to say 53K.
Many players running the RLQ and RIQ simply don't have the bonding runestones or legendary companions to make up for the scaling of their stats. It is why I think the devs need to adjust scaling a bit if they remove the requirements for support roles for skirmishes.
The other thing I want to point is that RAD isn't what the bonus should be, it should be just Astral Diamond and there would be no cap when you run a random Q for that bonus. If the devs did that we would see more healers and tanks qing up for content.
(sarcasticly) noOoOoOoOoOooo PROB NOT just keep ecplaining and "justifying" these changes.....
lol smh ring around the rosey anybody
People with an army of alts could do RLQ (or even before the random queues was implemented, cloak tower/ToS and eToS/eSoT multiple times) for hours, digging a HUGE gap in AD wealth between players with massive amount of playtime and casual players with no daily regularity or less than 1-2h of playtime + very high prices on AH (i can remember myself selling a lot of 99xblack perls for 8k to 10k AD, glorious legendary mount pack was something around 25M to 30M AD) + huge issues with boting/AD sellers on external websites.
Back to this time, 2hours/day in RLQ (half of my playtime), jumping from an alt to another (and before random queues had appeared, 2 hours of eToS/Cloak tower) for me was between 500k to 800k AD/day. And it was not the most efficient way to farm rAD/AD... only one of the easiest.
Someone who was only able to do 50k AD/day before mod14 should be able to be the same amount nowdays (if he doesn't wait for ages the start of the random queues xD), but back then he was seeing things in AH 3x or 4x more expensive than today.
When the 100k limit was implemented i was not fond of it obviously, but i also aknowledge the fact that it has help my ally getting more populated, casual players (can't play much per day or can play only 2 days per week for exemple) were not droping the game as fast as they were before (because low hope without k$€£ to really one day be able to more or less catch up).
Make the role bonus direct AD, even once per toon, and yep, though it doesn't seem very efficient, i would probably throw some of my tanks (12 in my army) or some of my healers (10 in my alt army) a bit in RLQ and maybe sometimes RIQ (as they all have enough of basic equipment to do a reasonnable job), especially if VIP 15% bonus and 50% bonus from praying applied on the role AD. But we also may go back to dig a gap between casual and hardcore (on a more little scale though) and probably see prices rising a bit in general on AH.
If it is once per account per queue, that should maybe help a little bit to fluidify the RLQ and RIQ while not being a game breaker between harcore and casual, although with that i already see myself organizing rotations between me and ally/guildmates to share profits in RIQ/RAQ/REQ (so not really helping external people)
So I switch to my Fighter and figure what the hell I play this (a class I hate...and no, if theirs a class I hate more than tank its healer)...only to be informed that the Tokens are character bound...so all my previous work is null and void...f'ing brilliant.
@asterdahl i understand this above post about the Random queues but this does not help at all for non random queues. I have just read that this change is now affecting the new CTA event as well and that is game breaking.
Let say it is a 30 minute wait for the queue, that means to get 10 runs in i need to have 300 minutes of waiting time just to get my tokens. That means that for each day i need to be online for a minimum of 5 hours (as a dps) toon to get a single days token. While that might be feasible for me during the weekend it is definately not feasible during the week which means i am 100% unable to get all the available tokens.
Not to mention what happens when all the heals/tanks run out? I dont know what the actual numbers are but say the numbers thrown around like 70% dps, 20% tank, and 10% heals is accurate then that means after only 10% of the population gets their daily token the other 90% of the population is now unable to progress at all. The rewards for running the skirmish directly are underwhelming so i dont see a lot of people just continually running for the fun of it. If even some do it is still not nearly enough. Even if every single healer class ran this twice as many times as need that still means 80% of the population is unable to progress.
I am sure the entire population would rather seem the random failure than not being able to progress at all.
The wait times have also been trending downward as more players are playing tank and healer. As the role bonus was not yet implemented, there was no information given about what the in demand role was, and so far the number of tanks has increased significantly, resulting in tanks actually overpopulating the queue right now. With role bonuses we expect the number of healers to increase and the number of tanks to stabilize, as those willing to switch will now be able to switch to more accurately fill in the queue's current needs.
We are continuing to monitor the situation, if we were seeing averages anywhere close to 30 minutes, we would absolutely be taking more drastic measures. Please continue to send your feedback, and any exceptionally long wait times you may experience.
Our current data shows that the average DPS wait time for the random leveling queue has stabilized at around 5 minutes. It tends to trend around 2 minutes during peak times, 3-4 minutes most of the rest of the day, with a few low periods around 6-8 minutes.
Dont know what game is this wonderful times , but my waiting time as DPS in Neverwinter -RLQ-20+ min. RIQ-30+ min.
Today I try CTA and I waited 30+ min. to get in , and in the forum everybody or most have the same time to get into RQ's
I only do these 2 RQ's , because it take too long to get in
I'm having a hard time believing that's actually happening.
I'll take my main through and probably help my girlfriend get tokens. All the pugs out there trying to get their CTA completed, I wish you the best of luck.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
As I wrote elsewhere, asking for a Minimum Stats requirement instead of Minimum Item Level requirement is an utopia. But there are simple solutions that can be done:
- When a queue, dungeon or trial is selected must be wrote in a CLEAR and HIGHLIGHTED way the minimum stats required per role, in order to make a player aware of the stats he/she needs to that queue, dungeon or trial;
- Tank and Healer roles are not needed in every skirmish. The real needed thing is to balance some of them, like the ManyCoin Bank where adds can deal too many damage able to one-shot players;
- As @oremonger#9999 said, levelling a Tank it's hard do to, especially if it's well built (for group content) and he/she needs to do the campaigns. To do a daily campaign quest can get lot of time because the Divinity and the lack of offensive stats (indeed a good tank well built for group content is focused on defensive stats and HP). End-Gamer players can switch a bit enough things like enchantments and/or companion gears and companion bonuses to do new campaigns, but a new player can't;
- Must be added, at least for old dungeons and trials, a tooltip that explain their mechanics;
- The suggestions in the L menu should be upgraded and must be HIGHLIGHTED the importance of BONDING RUNESTONES and Companion as well as the main stats needed per role. Normally happens that a new player get lost in the game, wasting lots of AD for not needed stuff and so on and not everyone check on Google, that's why they should be able to find all the informations they need IN the game.
and then I looked up the forums and found what was going on.
I generally play my main which is (now) a cleric arbiter. While I was waiting for the queue, I decided to set up the second loadout to a devout healer cleric (which I have never played). After setting that up, I tried the CTA queue and instantly got notification to join.
Each subsequent queue was almost instantaneous... it was sort of fun playing a healer, although I felt really bad, because I do not think I was very good and was learning along the way to the detriment of the fellow party members. honestly, I can now see the benefit though of having a healer in the party as opposed to 5 x dps (I remember running the last CTA garrandur and the instances with 5 x dps were either super quick or punishingly long and death-filled). it sort of annoys me that in order to get the CTA's done, I have to sacrifice playing the way that I am used to, but in a way, it is a good learning experience for me to play in a healing role.
one odd thing that happened was that after a few runs, someone invited me to their private queue to continue running the CTA. The queue's seemed to fill quickly, I am assuming because the cleric role was already satisfied?
I was wondering: could you join a queue in a healer role, but then use the campfire at entrance to switch loadout to dps?
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
There would need to be a lot of incentive to end up with more healers. Not sure about OP, but DC heals has got to be the least amount of fun I have ever had playing a game. It is just god awful boring. I have a 24K DC and I have zero interest in making it end game worthy.
Fix the game play and maybe more people will play heals.
Tank is less HAMSTER but still.
> Looks like they are trying to provide incentives for more tanks and healers at end game, and forcing those requirements into the lower Random Queues to enforce it and then hoping people will progress through to end game.
>
> There would need to be a lot of incentive to end up with more healers. Not sure about OP, but DC heals has got to be the least amount of fun I have ever had playing a game. It is just god awful boring. I have a 24K DC and I have zero interest in making it end game worthy.
>
> Fix the game play and maybe more people will play heals.
>
> Tank is less <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> but still.
NW post-Mod 15
DC Heal experience:
Pray.
Watch bars.
Nothing?
Okay. Pray. Pray.
Tank is hurt! HEAL!
Oh. He took a potion.
Nevermind.
He's fine.
Pray.
Watch HP bars.
Ooh. Big AoE coming.
DPS isn't dodging?
YES! Finally.
Boom! He's hurt!
HEAL! HEAL!
Alriiight... he's fine now...
Pray. Pray...
Rinse and repeat.
zzzzzzzzzz
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Pray.
OK divinity bar is full. Okay use crappy at-will for a while
. . . . . . . .
Watch HP bars.
Ooh. Big AoE coming.
DPS isn't dodging?
YES! Finally.
Boom! He's dead!
better go Rez
Pray.
Jokes aside tho, Took's description just brilliantly sums up how boring it is