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Barbarian serious feedback
dyukiller
Member Posts: 89 Arc User
Playing as a gwf since game launch, i see myself in a dilema, either i keep farming and accepting my fate as weak dps or give up of my stuff and turn into a god dam tank.
barbarians are slower than others classes, most of end games players simply gave up about mount bonus, as soon as they reach the caps, assasin convenat, combatent manevour, and cavaly warning became useless, so is pretty easy to find them using gladiators guile x3 and x2 no bonus with the cheapest dominance\brutality insignias on AH, it means the they are 90% with gladiators active while Barbie drain his stamina fast as hell, in the end they are able to be faster than a barbie even tho barbie can run, to complete the package, braverly was change to speed buff works only in combat and battle fury no longer give us stamina refil.
barbarians are weaker than others classes, An half orc, brute, and dragon born, full str and con, str and dex, hold a giant sword, a massive axe or a goddam hammer should ripe enemies in half, at wills doesn't seems to hurt enemies, encounters have long animations, ridiculous magnitude and the best encounter hurt your self (jesus ),
paragons is nonsense, not so fast... combo with trample of fallen... ok,but does not build rage enough, roar build rage actvate TOF, but does not have any parago to buff it, myght leap is a complete joke.
choose between bloodspliter ans IBS almost the only ones that worth use, decent magnitude and cooldown, means only one gets buffed.
avalanche of steel and spin is bullsh*t, AOS cant hit hard in AOE but why but 2 AOE dailies? why not crescendo? 1 aoe and 1 single target, and the last feat ahahahaha got stuned or lose 5% dmg, i reather do not choose any.
Barbie can not TANK, many bosses and enemies have aoe skills, like second and the last boss on lomm, paladins and gf have dailies that protect allies, and theres no such skill\ daily on barbie talents, and the only good buff that could be used: enemies take 10% more dmg what barbie hit it with takedown WHILE in rage, is on the same colum of not so fast speed buff, enduring shout has 27 seconds of cooldown and have no propose once healers have 40% + out going heal and can heal a full health in a single bow, this could at least give party members CA for few seconds like daring shout used to do.
companions
Im in thouch with a great numbers of barbarians by telegram\whatsapp and discord, and all of then can't understand why we have 3 defese and 1 utility and only 1 offence, what in name of god dev were thinking about when they create this?
It should be changed when you choose your paragon, tank 3 defences, Dps 3 offences.
what the devs are trying to create is an OFF tank, a character middle thats help the gf\op and help the dps buffing\ debuffing, THAT NEVER GONNA WORK MY FRIEND,
ONLY BECAUSE NW DOESN'T HAVE PLACE TO SUCH CHAR.
They will pick up a tank GF \ OP - a healer DC\op and 1 hr that probably will be the paingiver, and 2 cw.
TR if there's no cw avaible, SW never and barbie if they need some one to complete the queue requiriment.
imo, if you change the companions slots and barbarian will match the level of others dsp
barbarians are slower than others classes, most of end games players simply gave up about mount bonus, as soon as they reach the caps, assasin convenat, combatent manevour, and cavaly warning became useless, so is pretty easy to find them using gladiators guile x3 and x2 no bonus with the cheapest dominance\brutality insignias on AH, it means the they are 90% with gladiators active while Barbie drain his stamina fast as hell, in the end they are able to be faster than a barbie even tho barbie can run, to complete the package, braverly was change to speed buff works only in combat and battle fury no longer give us stamina refil.
barbarians are weaker than others classes, An half orc, brute, and dragon born, full str and con, str and dex, hold a giant sword, a massive axe or a goddam hammer should ripe enemies in half, at wills doesn't seems to hurt enemies, encounters have long animations, ridiculous magnitude and the best encounter hurt your self (jesus ),
paragons is nonsense, not so fast... combo with trample of fallen... ok,but does not build rage enough, roar build rage actvate TOF, but does not have any parago to buff it, myght leap is a complete joke.
choose between bloodspliter ans IBS almost the only ones that worth use, decent magnitude and cooldown, means only one gets buffed.
avalanche of steel and spin is bullsh*t, AOS cant hit hard in AOE but why but 2 AOE dailies? why not crescendo? 1 aoe and 1 single target, and the last feat ahahahaha got stuned or lose 5% dmg, i reather do not choose any.
Barbie can not TANK, many bosses and enemies have aoe skills, like second and the last boss on lomm, paladins and gf have dailies that protect allies, and theres no such skill\ daily on barbie talents, and the only good buff that could be used: enemies take 10% more dmg what barbie hit it with takedown WHILE in rage, is on the same colum of not so fast speed buff, enduring shout has 27 seconds of cooldown and have no propose once healers have 40% + out going heal and can heal a full health in a single bow, this could at least give party members CA for few seconds like daring shout used to do.
companions
Im in thouch with a great numbers of barbarians by telegram\whatsapp and discord, and all of then can't understand why we have 3 defese and 1 utility and only 1 offence, what in name of god dev were thinking about when they create this?
It should be changed when you choose your paragon, tank 3 defences, Dps 3 offences.
what the devs are trying to create is an OFF tank, a character middle thats help the gf\op and help the dps buffing\ debuffing, THAT NEVER GONNA WORK MY FRIEND,
ONLY BECAUSE NW DOESN'T HAVE PLACE TO SUCH CHAR.
They will pick up a tank GF \ OP - a healer DC\op and 1 hr that probably will be the paingiver, and 2 cw.
TR if there's no cw avaible, SW never and barbie if they need some one to complete the queue requiriment.
imo, if you change the companions slots and barbarian will match the level of others dsp
5
Comments
They also will need more changes to improve than the companion slots. They will need to make all of the feats viable at all times like other classes and some improvements to damage or movement in the future to make them viable again.
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
I run guile and have 5 points in the movement boon also. I have no problems keeping up with the group...
The only reason that punishing charge is good is cause you are using a skill to reposition yourself. Your essentially giving up 1 of your encounters to be next to things. It also sounds like your also attacking before the tank initiates as well.
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
As for the mechanics for each class and its damage potential; this was the first pass to fix the long time issues of class balance. It is a step in the right direction and will take time to fix and balance out the game. IMO though striving for class balance is a waste as balancing occurs at a sparring target and never in content do to variables in content that can alter how a class actually performs.
For instance longer fights Clerics take a damage loss trying to maintain divinity but a warlock will have an easier time with soul sparks. These mechanics are added to each class and IMO we would hear less on the warlock front if enemies health were not adjusted downward as they would have had the time to build the sparks to do more damage and clerics would produce less damage do to maintaining divinity making these two classes closer in damage.
The problem I see with balancing ATM is that the devs have nerfed enemies health and that has made classes less balanced. More health for enemies would have given barbarian, warlock, etc.. extra time to do their fair share in damage.
At this point just play another class
Can we dps? Sure, but 3 classes at least do it better (by far).
Can we tank? Sure, but 2 classes do it better.
Better stamina would be a step at the right direction, same as 3 offense companion slots.
Would that be enough? No idea. But would give us a fighting chance at least.
So far i wouldnt recommend making a new barbarian or keeping barb as main and investing much in it.
There are much better choices and who knows when and if any fix is on a way. Could be mods till we see any changes.
> At this point we are mediocre dps at best and 3rd choice for tank. I dont really have an idea any more what build to try or what changes are needed to make us come close to wanted dps for end game groups.
> Can we dps? Sure, but 3 classes at least do it better (by far).
> Can we tank? Sure, but 2 classes do it better.
> Better stamina would be a step at the right direction, same as 3 offense companion slots.
> Would that be enough? No idea. But would give us a fighting chance at least.
> So far i wouldnt recommend making a new barbarian or keeping barb as main and investing much in it.
> There are much better choices and who knows when and if any fix is on a way. Could be mods till we see any changes.
I have been a GF main since early beta (may 2013 I think) and I always wanted to build a proper tank GWF. In its current form, the barbarian sentinel is 100% awesome.
I find it very strange that you think that the Fighter is a better tank than Barbarian in content currently available to us, as I find the Barbarian faster and more "fun" to play than the Fighter.
> I made a long -barb feedback comment- here the other day, and I quoted the guy (not gonna name him again) who made the changes to barb for m16, the comment was deleted after a few mins. I'm done with this
>
> At this point just play another class
If you were editing your post at the time, it was a bug with the forum software. Contact a mod to get it restored.
"oh, but i dont have problems to active battle rage", yes, using encounters. now you can save your encounters to use when battle rage is active, dealing more damage.
You can build rage attacking air (at least for now). So if you're going into boss fights without it, thats on you..
I PC into the biggest enemy, not so fast the henchmen, relentless strike and end with bloodletter. If I get to relentless, it's over pretty much.
However I still think having additional offensive slots will increase our damage. E.g. Nearly every Barbarian is running Deepcrow for the +8000 power. But what does that have us missing out on? The % damage increase in atwills from Siege Master? What about the Batri's bonus against bosses? Wizards and Rouges can make use of them all whereas we can only have one.
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Since this discussion is about the damage dealer side let's talk about that. First I hear about the impact the companion bonus has. As I already pointed out that the barbarian does have a slight power loss, which equates to some damage loss when compared to four of the five other damage dealer classes. The cleric is in the same boat as the barbarian as it also doesn't have 3 offensive companion bonuses. The extra power that is gained is around 4-8K. This can have a marginal impact to overall damage. If you are over 100K power, and most I imagine are at that or well over that, that 4-8K extra power is less impactful than if you had under 100K power.
The bigger issue is getting into melee range and being able to build up rage to get those bigger harder hits. If that is a concern lets talk about adding a slight speed boost to the class at the start of combat for 10 seconds, similar to the Orc speed boost. The other thing is modifying how quickly you get your into rage or whatever its called to get the harder hits. Now with a quicker build up to rage your rage hits will do less damage if you can activate it more often. This is similar to how encounters work with cool downs; if you want faster cool downs your encounters will do less damage.
The one item that I think many players are forgetting is that the each class when balancing was being done was done when enemies had more health. That is why I made my comment that if enemies health were not adjusted to be lower I think the issue between each class wouldn't be as serve as it is now. Do to how enemies health have been lowered it has negatively impacted a few class. I believe the classes that were most negatively impacted are the barbarian, warlock and fighter.
IMO mod 16 class fixes didn't need to happen. What we did need was some adjustments to the game; however, what we got seriously broke the game IMO. It is less fun and engaging now for me as wizard. To me the wizards now are easier to play than previously. The wizard class to me is just as boring right now as a GWF was in mod 15 and other earlier mods. In older mods GWF was stupid easy and boring for me and that is how I'm viewing wizards, rangers, and rogues ATM. The only classes I'm enjoying are the ones that produce less damage and have some type of mechanic you need to use to ensure maximum damage such as the cleric divinity.
I hope the devs can give you want seem to want; to be top damage dealer again because that is what I'm hearing more than a list of items that need to be fixed that can make the class better. I just see complaints and not solutions to the problem. In the future include a solution to the problem so the devs can at least consider it as a probable fix when they decide to tweak the class.
For instance we need to get in range to do our damage please provide the Barbarian Swordmaster a speed boost at the start of combat for 10 seconds. It takes a while to build up rage, please double how fast rage builds up and to counter how often we get rage please reduce the damage of our attacks to offset the quicker build up of rage.
What may help also is that there are unresolved code issues with other classes allowing them to be stronger than they are; if those get fixed that may help balancing out as well.
As for balancing please keep in mind it is done at a sparring target and when you run content when you see at a sparring target may not be what actually happens in a dungeon do to variables.
so what about a encounter that damage you too? we have a lot of class features/feats that ignore this rule.
letme give a total picture to solve bladmasters.
1 - what i said about rage per atwill for bladmasters/sentinels
2 - that can solve a lot of problems in this thread: give to battle rage, not a general damage buff, but a flat damage bonus for your next encounter, expiring our battle rage like happens to sentinels using primal fury (feated).
example: like daggers, battle rage improve your next encounter damage by, lets say, 250 magnitude. for a aoe power, like axes(350 magnitude) that is more than 70% of the value, for a full ibs, only 31% (but still a buff).
now, lets put that: change one bad class feature/feat by a extra stack of that flat bonus. that means, instead to hit one encounter by extra 250 magnitude, 2. or instead of that, your encounters no longer expire battle rage, but that battle rage bonus down to 150 and so on (what justify the extra time using escalating rage/unstoppable spin creating a super combo to relentless speed). ignoring the numbers, but looking the concept, that is the way to fix gwfs.
encounters hitting hard by some conditions, atwills more important than before, but dealing less damage, etc.
Yes, power is more valuable if under 100k power...but you're being very general there and acting like a big diminish. At 100k, 2k power is 1%, at 150k 2.5k is 1 %. Saying most are around 150k, we still lose %. At 100k, 4k would be 2%. At 150k, 4k would be 1.6%. To say that isn't enough to matter, then why are people running the kiuno and heels for the 3%, and lose 5k power, and noticing a diff. And that's saying we lose only 4k. Getting stuck with 3 def comps that have 4k/2k stats on the majority of the 68 offered is a joke. I would like to try combo's with siegemaster and others, but we can't.
Run a few CODG, and you see it. On most groups, the elevator is not bad, we're involved. By tentacles, we might hit 1-2 out of the 8. On the last 2 phases I go from threatening top dps, to getting crushed by top 2, and usually finish 3rd. I agree that enemies need more life, but if that doesn't happen, we are always going to be slower generating our DPS at the beginning of the fights, at least compared to other classes geared the same.