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Chat restrictions on new players

micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 3,011Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
edited July 2019 in Player Feedback (PC)
I know the gold sellers were/are an issue. But the current system is worse.

The Zone chat is dead. Not kinda dead, or slow, nope. Very dead. Necromancers gave up on it, deemed too dead.
Even the flat earthers and crazies not posting anymore.

Trade and the PE LFG don't look better either, there are probably several millennia old Egyptian mummies with more life in them.

The problem is that if I was a new player, and I've seen that lively chat, my conclusion would be that the game is also dead, 100% dead.
There is a lot of effort in "new player experience" but it all looks moot if the new player can't enable chat on their own (they need to finish half the leveling process first), so they can't ask anything, and the global chat is so dead I needed to check if I had it enabled.

No solution is perfect, but many free service companies battle the same battle and most solved it in better means. For example Valve games, and Google use phone attachment to account. It works well because people usually have a finite number of phone numbers - create account, get SMS with verification number put number in - you are assumed human. Ban = ban the phone number too.
If world wide SMSs are an issue, two factor authentication phone app. Takes probably a week to make one, same idea and no SMS costs.

ofc other means can stay in place, like buying any amount of ZEN, or the current system of getting some quest chains done. But it should be very clearly explained.

A chat full of crazy idiots that most of us disable is better than the dead desert there is now.
Guild: The Imaginary Friends
If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
;)
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Comments

  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,749Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019
    1. I personally would not like to attach my phone number to most web site except the big one.
    2. I don't know if the world wide SMS is an issue but the one week to make one will not stop gold sellers because they don't need to make one after the last one was banned. They just need to keep making a new one everyday. When one is banned, another 10 are already ready to use.
    3. I suggest for the new players, until they can have full access to chat. Give them temp access for (say) 10 minutes. When they want to use chat, pop up a graphic and asked them to type the text. If that matches, give them 10 minutes. After that expires and they still want to chat, pop up another one.

    If typing to get through is too much, give them multiple choice.

    Show them a picture, ask them to choose:

    1. it is a dog
    2. it is a cat
    3. it is a dragon
    4. if you choose this, you will be banned for an hour
    5. if you choose this, you will be banned for a day
    6. it is an orc
    7. if you choose this, you will be banned forever.
    8. it is a mimic
    9. No, I don't want to play this game, please get rid of my account.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 3,011Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    1. I personally would not like to attach my phone number to most web site except the big one.
    2. I don't know if the world wide SMS is an issue but the one week to make one will not stop gold sellers because they don't need to make one after the last one was banned. They just need to keep making a new one everyday. When one is banned, another 10 are already ready to use.
    3. I suggest for the new players, until they can have full access to chat. Give them temp access for (say) 10 minutes. When they want to use chat, pop up a graphic and asked them to type the text. If that matches, give them 10 minutes. After that expires and they still want to chat, pop up another one.
    ....

    1. Valid concern, but at the same time today it's common practice for unique account identification so people are more open to it (This is how blizzard and Valve reduced smurfing and botting, not eliminated thought). And I would assume that enough people willing to give Cryptic / PWE their credit card with full address, so a phone number is much less.
    Yet for those that do not want, the current method should still remain (or any others added that fit those category)

    2. What you mean by one week to make one? I've meant a phone app, that used as an identifier instead if sending SMSs. If you ban the account you ban the associated phone ID, and you can't use it to create an account again. This is why real life identifier like phone works well. Bots need to trash and recreate crapton of accounts, it's not feasible for all of them to have so many phones and sim cards.

    3. Valid idea, but many of the captcha can be overcome by bots today, and the harder the captcha it's also harder for people to. But this can be another option too, anything is better than what is today I think.
    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
    ;)
  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,393Member Arc User
    IMO the new player chat restrictions should be changed so that the requirement is to make a post on these forums. Such post
    should state one of the following:

    * The game is too easy/hard
    * Request a buff for your class
    * Demand a nerf to another class
    * Demand that a core mechanic of the game be labeled a bug.

    This will serve as evidence that a player is real and not a bot.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • auron#6793 auron Posts: 256Member Arc User
    I personaly do not feel comfortable giving my cellphone number out willy nilly because of privacy issues and bot callers and stuff most people I know personaly also feel this way. Not everybody has a texting service either (some landlines offer text to speech but i'm not sure all do).

    I get that scammers flooding the chat are a problem so some restriction for new players is needed but I also think they shouldn't be choked by the leash either.
    Maybe a puzzle of some sort would help like have people assemble a jigsaw puzzle screenshot.
    <div align="center"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/YH9QCXK.png" alt="" /></div></img>
    .....____
    ..../ __ \_________ ______
    .../ / / / ___/ __ `/ ___/
    ../ /_/ / / / /_/ / /__
    /_____/_/ \__'_/\___/
    There is supposed to be an image here, but the hamsters took it.
    <div align="center">AKA Draconis of Luskan</div>

    Maybe it is stupid, but it's also dumb! ~ Patrick Star

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  • fyrstigorfyrstigor Posts: 281Member Arc User
    Most players are in the Yawning portal and using those channels. When mod 17 comes out im sure everyone will move over to the Stardock instead.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,749Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    fyrstigor said:

    Most players are in the Yawning portal and using those channels. When mod 17 comes out im sure everyone will move over to the Stardock instead.

    Those are in Yawning portal are not new players.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 3,011Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    A separate 'campaign center' is not new, there was caer konig in IWD, Port can't-spell-its -name-yazarusomthing in chult, underdark has a mini town, and maybe something I forgot.
    In all those cases, PE still remained PE and the center of NW coming and going. Especially for newer players whom are the main issue and their impression.
    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
    ;)
  • robai#6206 robai Posts: 239Member Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    The Zone chat is dead. Not kinda dead, or slow, nope. Very dead. Necromancers gave up on it, deemed too dead.
    Even the flat earthers and crazies not posting anymore.

    The main reason is U16 for that.

  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Posts: 582Member Arc User
    Zone chat is dead because there are many less players. Last night I was in the only instance of Sharander and Dreadring and there was five people in one and three in the other. It's tumble weed city.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,749Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019

    Zone chat is dead because there are many less players. Last night I was in the only instance of Sharander and Dreadring and there was five people in one and three in the other. It's tumble weed city.

    I am in Dread Ring at 4:25pm EST on a Tuesday. There are 13 people in my instance. There are 7 instances with 77 players in total.
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Posts: 304Member Arc User

    Zone chat is dead because there are many less players. Last night I was in the only instance of Sharander and Dreadring and there was five people in one and three in the other. It's tumble weed city.

    I believe that part of the reason for less players is that in the move to Mod 16 all of the dungeons have been so much more difficult for them when it is a full group of new players in it. So much so that the first 90 days of the new player experience is getting carried by players until you can afford your mounts and companions. That 90 days starts when you start doing randoms. You also can't talk until about 5 hours of game time happens which is what it takes to get through Neverdeath.
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  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,451Member Arc User

    Zone chat is dead because there are many less players. Last night I was in the only instance of Sharander and Dreadring and there was five people in one and three in the other. It's tumble weed city.

    I play at night and early mornings. PE always has 25 - 35 instances, with many to most maxxed out at 20 players each.
  • fyrstigorfyrstigor Posts: 281Member Arc User

    fyrstigor said:

    Most players are in the Yawning portal and using those channels. When mod 17 comes out im sure everyone will move over to the Stardock instead.

    Those are in Yawning portal are not new players.
    And new players are not the ones talking. So if all the ones using LFG are no longer in PE cause they are in the portal, PE will look dead. And more players are concerned with running MEs than they are dungeons so less need to go to PE for using LFG.
  • fyrstigorfyrstigor Posts: 281Member Arc User

    Zone chat is dead because there are many less players. Last night I was in the only instance of Sharander and Dreadring and there was five people in one and three in the other. It's tumble weed city.

    I believe that part of the reason for less players is that in the move to Mod 16 all of the dungeons have been so much more difficult for them when it is a full group of new players in it. So much so that the first 90 days of the new player experience is getting carried by players until you can afford your mounts and companions. That 90 days starts when you start doing randoms. You also can't talk until about 5 hours of game time happens which is what it takes to get through Neverdeath.
    Nothing really changed for a new player. Before new players couldnt do much of anything in dungeons. Now they cant do anything either, but thats because of player error not because of dungeon mechanics.

    I believe a reason for less players in mod 16 is all the elite crybabies who insists the game is broken and impossible. They are actively trying to scare away as many people as they can, because cryptic took away their 1 shot bosses playstyle. Hopefully in time all these kiddos will be gone and the game can start to recover their player base.

    I think Cryptic should add some sort of tutorial giving a short explanation ingame on stats, counter stats, and that all dungeons have enemy ratings + 50k in stats. This would make it easier to new players to understand the key mechanic of the game faster.

    Problem isnt that dungeons are to hard, and ur 90 days number isnt real. Its just something u throw out there. Dungeons arent to hard, not for new players either. But the reason to do dungeons is less. Many campaigns to focus on so most new players dont feel the need to do dungeons. Once there was 2x daily quests from SH to do dungeons. It gave everyone a reason to. A task to complete. And it felt more like part of a daily routine. Now dungeons are optional and something most do when they have nothing else left.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,749Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019
    fyrstigor said:

    fyrstigor said:

    Most players are in the Yawning portal and using those channels. When mod 17 comes out im sure everyone will move over to the Stardock instead.

    Those are in Yawning portal are not new players.
    And new players are not the ones talking. So if all the ones using LFG are no longer in PE cause they are in the portal, PE will look dead. And more players are concerned with running MEs than they are dungeons so less need to go to PE for using LFG.
    The title of this thread is about new players and their restriction of using chat. It is not about they are not talking. It is about they are not allowed to talk.
  • fyrstigorfyrstigor Posts: 281Member Arc User

    fyrstigor said:

    fyrstigor said:

    Most players are in the Yawning portal and using those channels. When mod 17 comes out im sure everyone will move over to the Stardock instead.

    Those are in Yawning portal are not new players.
    And new players are not the ones talking. So if all the ones using LFG are no longer in PE cause they are in the portal, PE will look dead. And more players are concerned with running MEs than they are dungeons so less need to go to PE for using LFG.
    The title of this thread is about new players and their restriction of using chat. It is not about they are not talking. It is about they are not allowed to talk.
    Maybe so. But my reply is to OPs post about PE zone being dead. So its still relevant. Anyway, ive never seen the new players being big part of the talking in PE chats anyway. For restrictions they have to do the leveling areas until lvl 30. Thats what, 4 hours gameplay if u just follow the quest line?

    When i was a new player myself i didnt sit around chatting in PE when the game was new to me. I did quests, learned the game, tried to figure out if i liked it or not.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,749Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019
    fyrstigor said:

    fyrstigor said:

    fyrstigor said:

    Most players are in the Yawning portal and using those channels. When mod 17 comes out im sure everyone will move over to the Stardock instead.

    Those are in Yawning portal are not new players.
    And new players are not the ones talking. So if all the ones using LFG are no longer in PE cause they are in the portal, PE will look dead. And more players are concerned with running MEs than they are dungeons so less need to go to PE for using LFG.
    The title of this thread is about new players and their restriction of using chat. It is not about they are not talking. It is about they are not allowed to talk.
    Maybe so. But my reply is to OPs post about PE zone being dead. So its still relevant. Anyway, ive never seen the new players being big part of the talking in PE chats anyway. For restrictions they have to do the leveling areas until lvl 30. Thats what, 4 hours gameplay if u just follow the quest line?

    When i was a new player myself i didnt sit around chatting in PE when the game was new to me. I did quests, learned the game, tried to figure out if i liked it or not.

    OP is a veteran. He knows very well where the people are and how to chat. He knows very well how the new player can get chat ability. His concern is about the very new player's impression that Neverwinter is a dead game and give up because PE looks dead in chat. Right now, new player cannot even ask any simple question at all or say hi at all.
  • tebtengri#5279 tebtengri Posts: 24Member Arc User
    Even blocking numbers won't work. I can just call 611 and change my number any time I want. It's either free or a nominal charge.
  • tesvik#3337 tesvik Posts: 3Member Arc User
    As a new player myself I want use of the chat function so I can ask questions that aren't explained well in game instead of leaving game constantly to google an answer.

    When I try to use chat it tells me I have to complete 5 quest chains but google hasn't been helpful on what exactly those are. So in this regard more information would be helpful. I am enjoying the game myself so plan to continue however I can see many players getting frustrated and leaving before getting very far.

    That was my rant now my suggestion

    Have a beginners chat, that experienced players can qualify to participate in and be helpful. The need to be qualified would reduce what I suspect was spam in chat. Not sure how guilds work yet but I am sure if lower level players can join then guilds will want to have qualified members in beginners chat.

    Now question for those phone authenticate folks above. What is to prevent someone from using an internet based number on thier smart phone? This would allow for phone auntication and still be transferrable to others.
  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,393Member Arc User
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • tesvik#3337 tesvik Posts: 3Member Arc User
    Thanx pitshade for the link

    that information should be posted into the forums here and stickied IMO. Whole lot less quests then I was starting to think now to see where I really am on that list and focus. Instead of trying to test the chat as I finish quest chains that aren't part of that list.
  • oldtimer#7525 oldtimer Posts: 108Member Arc User
    edited October 2019
    *BUT THE GOLD SELLERS*

    You can easily make an argument that seeing gold spammers constantly is also a measure of a healthy game and it is still better than a dead chat.

    The ability to chat / whisper / join a guild should be unlocked as soon as the introduction quest line in P.E is complete and you are given the quest to go to Blacklake. The fact that this is how it works should also be made crystal clear to any new player.

    If they want to add extra account verification while signing up for an account or logging in that is fine, IN GAME such hurdles should not exist.
  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,393Member Arc User
    There was a stickied thread in the forums but I couldn't find it yesterday.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • akemnosakemnos Posts: 581Member Arc User
    I agree with the OP that PE is a fairly dead zone now. During the last CTA, i popped in there on Friday night (North American time) and tried to form a team from LFG. waited 5 minutes before just duoing with a guild mate. During that time i think i saw one other person say something in zone.

    And to comment about everyone moving to the yawning portal, that doesn't seem right as I dont tend to see the random talk that used to go on 24/7 in pe.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,749Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    akemnos said:

    I agree with the OP that PE is a fairly dead zone now. During the last CTA, i popped in there on Friday night (North American time) and tried to form a team from LFG. waited 5 minutes before just duoing with a guild mate. During that time i think i saw one other person say something in zone.

    And to comment about everyone moving to the yawning portal, that doesn't seem right as I dont tend to see the random talk that used to go on 24/7 in pe.

    Well, what is the need to go to PE these days?
    If you want to park your toon, there are better places which load faster.
    If you want random talk, well, god forbidden, there is Moonstone mask. There are a lot of "random" talk. :)
    If you have VIP, you probably have no need to go to PE except once a long while.
    If you don't have VIP, there are Yawning and Port that give you the 'services' and close to your quest givers.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,137Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    PE Zone chat is dead because player volumes are way down and there isn't much to do in PE anyway.

    If you have VIP, almost zero reason to go to PE except for a random quest or special event vendor.

    As for the new player chat restrictions... meh.

    Silence is a far better first impression than the former racist, homophobic, politically inflammatory, knuckledragging flatearth vomit that usually fills PE zone chat.

    New players want conversation and comradre? Great.
    Get in an active guild with a big alliance.
    Turn on Guild/Alliance chat.
    These chats tend to be more regulated, positive and supportive anyway.

    I don't think anyone misses the toxic bile stream that was PE zone chat.
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  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,749Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2019

    PE Zone chat is dead because player volumes are way down and there isn't much to do in PE anyway.



    If you have VIP, almost zero reason to go to PE except for a random quest or special event vendor.



    As for the new player chat restrictions... meh.



    Silence is a far better first impression than the former racist, homophobic, politically inflammatory, knuckledragging flatearth vomit that usually fills PE zone chat.



    New players want conversation and comradre? Great.

    Get in an active guild with a big alliance.

    Turn on Guild/Alliance chat.

    These chats tend to be more regulated, positive and supportive anyway.



    I don't think anyone misses the toxic bile stream that was PE zone chat.

    Except they can't talk to anyone to join the guild (unless they are somehow connected through a 3rd party communication faculties).
    I assume no decent size guild would actively recruit random players they happen to see walking in PE, invite them into the guild with 0 communication such as asking "are you a bot?"
  • akemnosakemnos Posts: 581Member Arc User
    Except up until recently PE was a spot where you would constantly see LFG requests. Now it is very silent comparatively. Lower geared players are not going to the portal to try to get lower dungeon teams filled if they dont want to straight pug.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Posts: 9,988Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    pitshade said:

    There was a stickied thread in the forums but I couldn't find it yesterday.

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1222015/pc-combating-gold-spammers/p1 Here ya go.
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  • tesvik#3337 tesvik Posts: 3Member Arc User

    PE Zone chat is dead because player volumes are way down and there isn't much to do in PE anyway.



    If you have VIP, almost zero reason to go to PE except for a random quest or special event vendor.



    As for the new player chat restrictions... meh.



    Silence is a far better first impression than the former racist, homophobic, politically inflammatory, knuckledragging flatearth vomit that usually fills PE zone chat.



    New players want conversation and comradre? Great.

    Get in an active guild with a big alliance.

    Turn on Guild/Alliance chat.

    These chats tend to be more regulated, positive and supportive anyway.



    I don't think anyone misses the toxic bile stream that was PE zone chat.

    Except they can't talk to anyone to join the guild (unless they are somehow connected through a 3rd party communication faculties).
    I assume no decent size guild would actively recruit random players they happen to see walking in PE, invite them into the guild with 0 communication such as asking "are you a bot?"

    Don't need a 3rd party app to join a guild the /tell function works for noobs. In fact I joined a guild just so that I could use some limited chat function to ask questions in. As a noob I could still see zone chat saw someone recruiting for thier guild and sent a /tell praying it would work. Of course that is yet something else that should be posted and stickied for noobs like me to know about.

    Once I got that list of needed quests it only took me a couple of hours to open up chat/AH/etc. But without that information readily available to new players I suspect PE loses 80+% of players wanting to try out the game. All above are valid concerns but making the information for unlocking chat etc. easy to find. Would solve the biggest ones IMO.
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