Please excuse my ignorance on the subject but I need a little help. I am running Win 64 bit OS but when I launch my game it says Arc 32 bit, is it just the OS that is affected or do I have to update the Arc launcher as well?
the exact question I asked! =p how can you not support a 32bit version of windows if the client is still 32bit ;p
My husband fired it up on the 32 bit client to show you what to look for on your launcher.
If you see this warning, then you are currently running 32 bit OS. If your PC can support 64 bit OS, then it is in need of a software upgrade.
Question: What does 64 bit do? Answer: Apparently it handles memory better. It does not change or improve graphics. It will not reduce network latency (aka lag).
Please excuse my ignorance on the subject but I need a little help. I am running Win 64 bit OS but when I launch my game it says Arc 32 bit, is it just the OS that is affected or do I have to update the Arc launcher as well?
the exact question I asked! =p how can you not support a 32bit version of windows if the client is still 32bit ;p
64 bit OS is backwards compatible to 32 bit applications. My husband's question once again, what 64 bit kernel optimizations are being implemented on July 18th? Users deserve to know, if this is an actual use of their 64 bit OS, or just filter out the minority 2%?
Has anyone here tried running Neverwinter on a Mac using Wine or VMWare Fusion?
My work is considering forcing me onto an 8-core Macbook Pro i9 (I've been using top-end HP zbooks for years now). If they do, I'll be able to install a Windows 10 image under VMWare Fusion, but in my experience Fusion is good to a point (especially when using anything related to MS Office), but gets clunky and runs into driver conflicts on graphics intensive programs. I have plenty of experience with Linux, but I'm only marginally familiar with the MacOS X Unix implementation.
64 bit OS is backwards compatible to 32 bit applications.
32-bit applications, yes, but if I understood this correctly, the idea is to switch entirely over to a single 64-bit client, and for that you need a 64-bit OS. The ARC software may remain 32-bit, so it can run on either a 32 or 64-bit platform - I'm only talking about the actual game client).
The savings from only having to test/develop a single Windows client, instead of a 32 and a 64-bit one probably outweigh the expected loss from losing customers with a 32-bit OS.
Hoping for improvements...
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,419Arc User
64 bit OS is backwards compatible to 32 bit applications.
32-bit applications, yes, but if I understood this correctly, the idea is to switch entirely over to a single 64-bit client, and for that you need a 64-bit OS. The ARC software may remain 32-bit, so it can run on either a 32 or 64-bit platform - I'm only talking about the actual game client).
The savings from only having to test/develop a single Windows client, instead of a 32 and a 64-bit one probably outweigh the expected loss from losing customers with a 32-bit OS.
If they keep 32bit application and do proper testing, they need to test on at least 3 platforms. 64bit application on Windows 64bit OS. 32bit application on Windows 32bit OS. 32bit application on Windows 64bit OS.
Getting rid of 32bit application eliminates 2 of them.
Then, there is installation complication.
64bit application installs under "Program Files". 32bit application installs under "Program Files (x86)" in 64bit OS. 32bit application installs under "Program Files" in 32bit OS.
Then, there is Registry complication.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
64 bit OS is backwards compatible to 32 bit applications.
32-bit applications, yes, but if I understood this correctly, the idea is to switch entirely over to a single 64-bit client, and for that you need a 64-bit OS. The ARC software may remain 32-bit, so it can run on either a 32 or 64-bit platform - I'm only talking about the actual game client).
The savings from only having to test/develop a single Windows client, instead of a 32 and a 64-bit one probably outweigh the expected loss from losing customers with a 32-bit OS.
If they keep 32bit application and do proper testing, they need to test on at least 3 platforms. 64bit application on Windows 64bit OS. 32bit application on Windows 32bit OS. 32bit application on Windows 64bit OS.
Getting rid of 32bit application eliminates 2 of them.
Then, there is installation complication.
64bit application installs under "Program Files". 32bit application installs under "Program Files (x86)" in 64bit OS. 32bit application installs under "Program Files" in 32bit OS.
Then, there is Registry complication.
Well not really, once more there is no real need to run Arc at all. Neverwinter is just called by the Arc catalog program. Arc does nothing during the game. Neverwinter.exe is the real game launcher then after the Client.exe starts the Neverwinter.exe shuts down. I can also install Neverwinter to any directory (folder) and Linux doesn't even use drive letters or a system registry.
@kvet Using a program called WineBottler and Play on Mac, Windows programs run on Mac. It is important to note, these programs are not emulation, as they don't pretend to be Windows, but instead just point at which programs should be used in place of the ones called by the application. These programs are open sourced but they do sell a commercial packages with support as well.
When my husband was testing the 32 bit OS he has found that Champions has no such warning posted and runs smoothly on Windows 32 bit OS with DirectX 9. This made him question; Since Windows 32 bit only represents 2% of the total online population of just about every online game, how long before Champions is declared "dead weight"? They represent only 4% of the total online Cryptic community but soon they will be 100% of the 32 bit OS gaming. Arc launcher is probably staying 32 bit for that one game.
I'm not trolling when I say that no video game on Earth is worth throwing out a perfectly good and functional computer. In all seriousness, who even has the money to put out on a new 64-bit computer just to play your game?
Likewise, punishing your customers for using a 32-Bit OS is not a smart move considering that Microsoft's 64-bit OSes have outstanding issues that apparently are not being fixed. For example, why is it that every single update of 64-bit Windows 10 breaks the previous installation, but the 32-bit version doesn't appear to have this problem... or at least not as often?
In all seriousness, this is an even worse move than all of the game-breaking Mod 16 changes, and not a little inconsiderate on Cryptic's part when it comes to what your customers are using.
Here is a simple truth: A good company takes it upon themselves to meet the customers where they are at; not expect the customer to make changes to suit the company.
"Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
Should it be decided to discontinue support on Windows 7, would you please delay that. Windows 10 in its current state is rubbish.
"Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Not that Im playing because i am not, but i still stroll the threads..
they have shown they do not care about marginal player bases, I am sure there are some good, paying 32 bit users, but there were good paying foundry users as well.
Which still perplexes the mind to the utmost that for some reason they still stated the mod 16 changes were in part directed to a marginal amount of players in PVP.
But of course its cryptic so who knows what they think..
All I know is probably 15-20% of the player base has been shredded, so whats another 2-3% if they can honestly save 5-6% more time.. seems reasonable in the end.
Not that Im playing because i am not, but i still stroll the threads..
they have shown they do not care about marginal player bases, I am sure there are some good, paying 32 bit users, but there were good paying foundry users as well.
Which still perplexes the mind to the utmost that for some reason they still stated the mod 16 changes were in part directed to a marginal amount of players in PVP.
But of course its cryptic so who knows what they think..
All I know is probably 15-20% of the player base has been shredded, so whats another 2-3% if they can honestly save 5-6% more time.. seems reasonable in the end.
@silverkelt cutting 32 bit support actually makes some sense, it is just that there is little to no explanation for it given. Path of Exile recently cut support for windows xp and windows vista, as well as directx 9, but they also took the time to explain why and that the number of people playing on those versions made up close to 0.1% of the player base and it just didn't make sense for them to continue supporting them. I imagine this decision was made with similar things in mind.
Please excuse my ignorance on the subject but I need a little help. I am running Win 64 bit OS but when I launch my game it says Arc 32 bit, is it just the OS that is affected or do I have to update the Arc launcher as well?
the exact question I asked! =p how can you not support a 32bit version of windows if the client is still 32bit ;p
Are you running the post-July 18 client? If they're only using one client for both 32-bit and 64-bit machines, it has to be 32-bit. They can only transition to a single 64-bit client after dropping the 32-bit one.
Question: What does 64 bit do? Answer: Apparently it handles memory better. It does not change or improve graphics. It will not reduce network latency (aka lag).
It doesn't just handle memory "better" - it allows for much more memory. 32-bit Windows is limited to between 2GB and 3.5GB (2GB in most pre-Windows 10 installs, 3.1GB in most Windows 10 installs). 64-bit Windows 10 can handle 128GB (or even much more - that's the home version). A decent computer right now should have 8GB or more...a lot of halfway-decent computers have only 4GB (and share their memory with the GPU!). With more memory, more programs can be "in memory" at the same time and each program can handle more information more quickly.
A good portion of the graphics capability is handled by the CPU, not the GPU. This means more memory = more graphics capability. Also, being able to offload more of the game's processing to the client-side can improve "network" (server) latency. Not knowing the architecture of the game, it's not possible to say how much the current state of the client software affects the performance of the server and how much better it can be with more memory on the clients.
Bottom line though, a 64-bit program can just do more.
FYI - if you have a licensed copy of Windows 10 32-bit you can upgrade it to 64-bit for free. I would strongly recommend linking it to a Microsoft account first so that the license is stored there.
The problem for a lot of people is you actually *can't* upgrade a 32-bit copy of Windows to 64-bit. You have to do a clean re-install. This causes you to have to re-install all of your programs. Some people can't do that, whether because the program explicitly won't allow an install in Windows 10, because it doesn't allow an install in a 64-bit OS, or because the installer is no longer available to the user for whatever reason (lost the original install media and can't obtain a replacement, for example).
I mean, optimization of the game be damned, but like, not all of us have the opportunity to upgrade their machines.
If this affects you: you're running an operating system FROM 2003 that reached end of life in April 2015.
And they're still supporting the version *after* the one you're running, which also is well past end of life.
It's not unreasonable to ask people to use computers manufactured "sometime in the previous decade and a half" to play your online game.
Do you want a gold star sticker for being way off the mark? Windows 10 Home is an x86 (32 bit) compatible operating system, which is what I have been using since 2014.
There is a 32-bit version of Windows 10. It's for people who were running the 32-bit version of Win7
Why not just admit you were wrong, and move on? Windows 10 32-bit is *not* from 2003. Neither is 32-bit Windows 7. People running a 32-bit OS are not necessarily then running an OS from 2003, nor even one that is past its end-of-life.
for people running XP who still needed to run *16-bit* programs on hardware long into obsolescence.
Unless you're still running stuff written for Win95, or running a computer from before 64-bit processors became standard (so, *2004*)
There are plenty of 32-bit programs that don't run, or don't run well, in a 64-bit environment. Usually this is due to incompatibilities with 64-bit drivers. In some cases, though, like Symantec's Ghost 11, the 32-bit program simply doesn't work in a 64-bit environment at all.
you should just apply the free upgrade to Win10 x64 using the assistant (In fact, you should have done that years ago).
The "upgrade" from 32-bit to 64-bit is a clean re-install. You lose all your programs and settings, and must re-install and reconfigure everything. From scratch. So there's more reason for some to still use 32-bit than just "Win95 programs or 32-bit hardware".
There is a 32-bit version of Windows 10. It's for people who were running the 32-bit version of Win7
Why not just admit you were wrong, and move on? Windows 10 32-bit is *not* from 2003. Neither is 32-bit Windows 7. People running a 32-bit OS are not necessarily then running an OS from 2003, nor even one that is past its end-of-life.
Holy HAMSTER, thread necro.
32-bit 10 is for people who needed 32-bit 7. 32-bit 7 is for people who still needed 16-bit programs after XP stopped being current and didn't mind being limited to 4GB of RAM.
32-bit XP, from 2003, was a normal desktop OS.
32-bit 7, and 32-bit 10, are not normal desktop OSes. They are weird niche cases, nonstandard, not something anyone should run without knowing exactly *why* they're running them, and not normal.
for people running XP who still needed to run *16-bit* programs on hardware long into obsolescence.
Unless you're still running stuff written for Win95, or running a computer from before 64-bit processors became standard (so, *2004*)
There are plenty of 32-bit programs that don't run, or don't run well, in a 64-bit environment. Usually this is due to incompatibilities with 64-bit drivers. In some cases, though, like Symantec's Ghost 11, the 32-bit program simply doesn't work in a 64-bit environment at all.
Ghost 11, a specialised tool and not a standard application in any sense of the word, released 2006. 64-bit OSes became the desktop standard, Windows *and* Mac: 2009.
Ghost versions higher than 11: Work just fine in 64-bit environments, according to the specs. I don't know anyone who's used Ghost since 2008, maybe the new versions are trash? I don't know.
If your enterprise bought software once in 2006 and refuses to update it, you probably shouldn't be playing an mmo on their computer.
If your personal computer relies on a copy of Ghost from 2006 for.... some reason.... you should probably just stop doing that, whatever it is, or update Ghost. That's like saying "I use Netscape Communicator 4 for my email, there's no reason to change, it's just email!"
you should just apply the free upgrade to Win10 x64 using the assistant (In fact, you should have done that years ago).
The "upgrade" from 32-bit to 64-bit is a clean re-install. You lose all your programs and settings, and must re-install and reconfigure everything. From scratch. So there's more reason for some to still use 32-bit than just "Win95 programs or 32-bit hardware".
No, there isn't. If your workflow depends on software that doesn't work on 2009+ computers, you should change your workflow, update your software, or accept that you cannot run a 2019 MMO on the same computer and consider picking up a different computer for your MMO. Pick one.
(And you should have done that years ago, but now's better than never.)
you should probably just accept that you can't run a 2019 MMO on the same computer.
The 32-bit architecture is obsolete, antiquated, rare, and only for hobbyists and specialised applications.
Agreed, but you're still being very judgmental for someone who doesn't get his facts right the first time around.
I was ignoring weird nonstandard edge cases where the users of those edge cases should already understand the issues, not "wrong" in any general sense.
I sympathise with people stuck using Embedded XP in a giant powersaw or whose company-provided PC is Win10 Enterprise x86 because they need ie6 to run natively to talk to the billion-dollar ERP the company built using ActiveX in the 1990s, or whose business depends on a Watcom Pascal program with assembler drop-ins. At the same time, those people *should not be playing Neverwinter on that work PC*.
If your personal PC doesn't have a 64-bit OS, that means your personal PC was not consumer COTS-current any time in the last decade. And at that point I sympathise with Cryptic et al who are like "if your PC was off-the-shelf new, not even top of the line but just new-off-the-shelf, THIS DECADE, you can play, but not otherwise"
This has now been completed. Support of 32-bit Windows OS has ended of of today, July 18.
Greetings Adventurers,
As of July 18th, 2019, Neverwinter will no longer support any 32-Bit Microsoft Windows Operating System. This decision was made in order to improve game performance and to optimize the player experience. In order to make this transition as smooth as possible, we have put together a quick FAQ.
What is the timeline for these changes? You will have plenty of time to upgrade! After May 21st, 2019, if you are running on any 32-bit Microsoft Windows Operating System, the launcher will inform you of that fact. As of July 18th, 2019, Neverwinter will no longer support any 32-Bit Microsoft Windows Operating System.
What Operating System should I be upgrading to? For the best play experience, Cryptic Studios recommends Windows 10.
The game will run on Windows Vista Service Pack 2 64-Bit or better, or Windows 7 or 8 as well. Be aware that Microsoft has discontinued support for Windows Vista as of April 2017, although we continue to support it, for now.
Please feel free to discuss this change in this thread, and let us know any further questions. We will be updating this thread with any additional notices or clarifications as needed.
Comments
My husband fired it up on the 32 bit client to show you what to look for on your launcher.
If you see this warning, then you are currently running 32 bit OS. If your PC can support 64 bit OS, then it is in need of a software upgrade.
Question: What does 64 bit do?
Answer: Apparently it handles memory better. It does not change or improve graphics. It will not reduce network latency (aka lag). 64 bit OS is backwards compatible to 32 bit applications. My husband's question once again, what 64 bit kernel optimizations are being implemented on July 18th? Users deserve to know, if this is an actual use of their 64 bit OS, or just filter out the minority 2%?
My work is considering forcing me onto an 8-core Macbook Pro i9 (I've been using top-end HP zbooks for years now). If they do, I'll be able to install a Windows 10 image under VMWare Fusion, but in my experience Fusion is good to a point (especially when using anything related to MS Office), but gets clunky and runs into driver conflicts on graphics intensive programs. I have plenty of experience with Linux, but I'm only marginally familiar with the MacOS X Unix implementation.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
The savings from only having to test/develop a single Windows client, instead of a 32 and a 64-bit one probably outweigh the expected loss from losing customers with a 32-bit OS.
64bit application on Windows 64bit OS.
32bit application on Windows 32bit OS.
32bit application on Windows 64bit OS.
Getting rid of 32bit application eliminates 2 of them.
Then, there is installation complication.
64bit application installs under "Program Files".
32bit application installs under "Program Files (x86)" in 64bit OS.
32bit application installs under "Program Files" in 32bit OS.
Then, there is Registry complication.
@kvet Using a program called WineBottler and Play on Mac, Windows programs run on Mac. It is important to note, these programs are not emulation, as they don't pretend to be Windows, but instead just point at which programs should be used in place of the ones called by the application. These programs are open sourced but they do sell a commercial packages with support as well.
When my husband was testing the 32 bit OS he has found that Champions has no such warning posted and runs smoothly on Windows 32 bit OS with DirectX 9. This made him question; Since Windows 32 bit only represents 2% of the total online population of just about every online game, how long before Champions is declared "dead weight"? They represent only 4% of the total online Cryptic community but soon they will be 100% of the 32 bit OS gaming. Arc launcher is probably staying 32 bit for that one game.
I'm not trolling when I say that no video game on Earth is worth throwing out a perfectly good and functional computer. In all seriousness, who even has the money to put out on a new 64-bit computer just to play your game?
Likewise, punishing your customers for using a 32-Bit OS is not a smart move considering that Microsoft's 64-bit OSes have outstanding issues that apparently are not being fixed. For example, why is it that every single update of 64-bit Windows 10 breaks the previous installation, but the 32-bit version doesn't appear to have this problem... or at least not as often?
In all seriousness, this is an even worse move than all of the game-breaking Mod 16 changes, and not a little inconsiderate on Cryptic's part when it comes to what your customers are using.
Here is a simple truth: A good company takes it upon themselves to meet the customers where they are at; not expect the customer to make changes to suit the company.
they have shown they do not care about marginal player bases, I am sure there are some good, paying 32 bit users, but there were good paying foundry users as well.
Which still perplexes the mind to the utmost that for some reason they still stated the mod 16 changes were in part directed to a marginal amount of players in PVP.
But of course its cryptic so who knows what they think..
All I know is probably 15-20% of the player base has been shredded, so whats another 2-3% if they can honestly save 5-6% more time.. seems reasonable in the end.
A good portion of the graphics capability is handled by the CPU, not the GPU. This means more memory = more graphics capability. Also, being able to offload more of the game's processing to the client-side can improve "network" (server) latency. Not knowing the architecture of the game, it's not possible to say how much the current state of the client software affects the performance of the server and how much better it can be with more memory on the clients.
Bottom line though, a 64-bit program can just do more.
32-bit 10 is for people who needed 32-bit 7. 32-bit 7 is for people who still needed 16-bit programs after XP stopped being current and didn't mind being limited to 4GB of RAM.
32-bit XP, from 2003, was a normal desktop OS.
32-bit 7, and 32-bit 10, are not normal desktop OSes. They are weird niche cases, nonstandard, not something anyone should run without knowing exactly *why* they're running them, and not normal. Ghost 11, a specialised tool and not a standard application in any sense of the word, released 2006. 64-bit OSes became the desktop standard, Windows *and* Mac: 2009.
Ghost versions higher than 11: Work just fine in 64-bit environments, according to the specs. I don't know anyone who's used Ghost since 2008, maybe the new versions are trash? I don't know.
If your enterprise bought software once in 2006 and refuses to update it, you probably shouldn't be playing an mmo on their computer.
If your personal computer relies on a copy of Ghost from 2006 for.... some reason.... you should probably just stop doing that, whatever it is, or update Ghost. That's like saying "I use Netscape Communicator 4 for my email, there's no reason to change, it's just email!"
No, there isn't. If your workflow depends on software that doesn't work on 2009+ computers, you should change your workflow, update your software, or accept that you cannot run a 2019 MMO on the same computer and consider picking up a different computer for your MMO. Pick one.
(And you should have done that years ago, but now's better than never.) I was ignoring weird nonstandard edge cases where the users of those edge cases should already understand the issues, not "wrong" in any general sense.
I sympathise with people stuck using Embedded XP in a giant powersaw or whose company-provided PC is Win10 Enterprise x86 because they need ie6 to run natively to talk to the billion-dollar ERP the company built using ActiveX in the 1990s, or whose business depends on a Watcom Pascal program with assembler drop-ins. At the same time, those people *should not be playing Neverwinter on that work PC*.
If your personal PC doesn't have a 64-bit OS, that means your personal PC was not consumer COTS-current any time in the last decade. And at that point I sympathise with Cryptic et al who are like "if your PC was off-the-shelf new, not even top of the line but just new-off-the-shelf, THIS DECADE, you can play, but not otherwise"