The problem isn't injury immunity. There really aren't all that many traps in dungeons, and once you've run them enough times you've memorized where they are.
The problem is with *uncertainty*, or rather the lack thereof. There is little to no randomness in dungeons. A speedrunner can run ahead because he's run the dungeon enough times that he knows *exactly* what lies ahead. He knows exactly where the traps are, how many enemies there are, and exactly what type. He knows exactly what it will take to defeat them. In short, he knows that there will be no nasty surprises.
This is the problem. Dungeons should always have an air of uncertainty. What danger lurks around the next corner? For that matter, *is* there a next corner, or has a cave-in taken place that will force you to take an alternate route? Dungeons have denizens and should be somewhat dynamic. This is one reason why I have railed (and railed and railed and RAILED) against the closure of side areas. The enemies in dungeons don't just sit around waiting for the next batch of adventurers to annihilate them. Enemies are in that dungeon for their own reasons, doing their own thing. For that matter, if a dungeon is large enough not every enemy might be on the same page so to speak. A random event that forces players to take alternate action might put them in contact with an entirely different group of occupants with their own agenda (which -- *gasp* -- might even include some dialogue!).
Good dungeon design requires thinking about why it was originally built, why the current occupants are there and what their agenda(s) are. If you've played my first Foundry (Cap Snatchers) before it was taken down you know a little of what I'm talking about. The final map was a dungeon map with multiple ways to reach the end, multiple roaming patrols, enemies behind murder holes at strategic positions, and multiple gates where you actually had to find and fight your way to the opening mechanism before you could enter. The map was built with thought put into what it required for its occupants to actually live there -- rooms for sleeping, eating, gathering water, disposing of trash, combat practice, weapon and armor smithing, supplies, guarding prisoners, magical research, and rooms dedicated to defending the dungeon from intruders (e.g. with murder holes). Players had to *find* what they needed to advance, which meant putting their exploration hats on. Rarely if ever do we see this sort of thing in queued dungeons, and this is a problem.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
After previous big patch a lot of technical issues were fixed. Overall now game by itself is very good and we appreciate this.
Do not presume to speak for anyone other than yourself here. Unless you have a friend in your pocket that gave you the right to speak for them your opinions are yours and yours alone.
Stop trolling the players.
1
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
Hard to say, I am thinking maybe @dolrey is trolling? I don't do dungeons often, but what "level" of dungeons? Why would you title this "Increase Death Penalty Please" and not even talk about the death penalty all that much to begin with? I foresee this thread heading for the Lower Depths very quick once a moderator has read it. This is either, not well thought out or you are trolling? You do know they use to make us wait 3 minutes and not just 30 seconds per injury correct? Also Injury Kits cost us 70 silver or 0.7 gold, the only ones sold for AD are in the Auction sold by players.
He is not trolling, he just really likes being nerfed. Has been asking for changes to make things more difficult for years, but mostly it has been specific to GF (the class he appears to play most).
Maybe if someone dies, the penalty should be the loss of your main hand weapon, then off hand . . . . . . then randomly loose the rest of your gear. All enchants is said piece of gear lost as well . . . . . . .
Neverwinter is not broken! There is no problem with players who are simply good at playing this game! Good players do not offend me or ruin the game for me. I appreciate having good players on my team! If you are good enough to "Zerg", go for it! Clearly, you've taken your character build seriously enough to build them up, equip them and get all of your refinements up to 14! Awesome! You've earned it! Zerg away!
Now look at these trolls who typically wear nothing but green armors, with white or green companions, white or green mounts, no enchantments and absolutely nothing refined. If you aren't willing to put in the effort to build up your character, you forfeit your right to complain about anything let alone about another player "Zerging". You literally epitomise what it means to be an MMO troll, and deeply resent those who have what you are not willing to work hard and earn for yourself!
I have been playing Neverwinter and enjoying it immensely for the most part (prior to mod 16 which is still a dumpster-fire). The issue here are the blasted nit-picking trolls who just can't (or won't) carry their own weight but who are not happy until they have found something (anything) to make life miserable for every other player in this game! This is what MMO trolls live for and this is what has killed off many an MMO in times past.
Seriously, either play Neverwinter for what it is or just go play Dark Souls!
Post edited by caldochaud#4880 on
"Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
Neverwinter is not broken! There is no problem with players who are simply good at playing this game! Good players do not offend me or ruin the game for me. I appreciate having good players on my team! If you are good enough to "Zerg", go for it! Clearly, you've taken your character build seriously enough to build them up, equip them and get all of your refinements up to 14! Awesome! You've earned it! Zerg away!
Now look at these trolls who typically wear nothing but green armors, with white or green companions, white or green mounts, no enchantments and absolutely nothing refined. If you aren't willing to put in the effort to build up your character, you forfeit your right to complain about anything let alone about another player "Zerging". You literally epitomise what it means to be an MMO troll, and deeply resent those who have what you are not willing to work hard and earn for yourself!
I have been playing Neverwinter and enjoying it immensely for the most part (prior to mod 16 which is still a dumpster-fire). The issue here are the blasted nit-picking trolls who just can't (or won't) carry their own weight but who are not happy until they have found something (anything) to make life miserable for every other player in this game! This is what MMO trolls live for and this is what has killed off many an MMO in times past.
Seriously, either play Neverwinter for what it is or just go play Dark Souls!
Not all people dislike zerger out of jealousy as u said. Some people dislike them because they usually disrespect teamplay. Its that leeroy case all over again.
Granted, this game should not be a cake-walk, but punishing good players with stiffer death penalties is not an answer either. And I'm curious if you are sure that you're not running into bots?
In spite of the changes made in mod 16, there are still numerous bots appearing in the queue that have not been changed to meet mod 16. These bots who are identical in build and gearing generally rush ahead past mobs - die - respawn - repeat. Although I have also seen bad bots that just run in circles and do nothing. Also, while a Zerg who is running ahead, or anybody lagging behind you will talk to you in chat, bots do not respond and they won't rez another player that has fallen.
The easy fix would be either join a guild (or make your own) with a focus on regular daily guild-queues to eliminate the hassle of a bad queue with strangers.
Mod 16 is a step in the wrong direction. Neverwinter has suffered changes that have served no purplose but to hurt the overall gameplay and long-time players are leaving as a result. Speaking for myself, I really do not want to see Neverwinter go the way of Star Wars Galaxies or WildStar, but it will unless good players are no longer punished for being good players... Neverwinter will not see 2020.
"Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
i pretty sure this a cry baby post , did someone shame your healing or dps or you aggro holding as tank ? or what ? cuz that's what i make out from what i read .
Neverwinter is not broken! There is no problem with players who are simply good at playing this game! Good players do not offend me or ruin the game for me. I appreciate having good players on my team! If you are good enough to "Zerg", go for it! Clearly, you've taken your character build seriously enough to build them up, equip them and get all of your refinements up to 14! Awesome! You've earned it! Zerg away!
Now look at these trolls who typically wear nothing but green armors, with white or green companions, white or green mounts, no enchantments and absolutely nothing refined. If you aren't willing to put in the effort to build up your character, you forfeit your right to complain about anything let alone about another player "Zerging". You literally epitomise what it means to be an MMO troll, and deeply resent those who have what you are not willing to work hard and earn for yourself!
I have been playing Neverwinter and enjoying it immensely for the most part (prior to mod 16 which is still a dumpster-fire). The issue here are the blasted nit-picking trolls who just can't (or won't) carry their own weight but who are not happy until they have found something (anything) to make life miserable for every other player in this game! This is what MMO trolls live for and this is what has killed off many an MMO in times past.
Seriously, either play Neverwinter for what it is or just go play Dark Souls!
Not all people dislike zerger out of jealousy as u said. Some people dislike them because they usually disrespect teamplay. Its that leeroy case all over again.
And developers should do something with this. Because all these broken things and something what was popular joke in one legendary mmo in NWO is normal playstile (from the point of view of many players). It is just..
Its not a problem that neverwinter alone are facing. Most MMO has that problem. The way how dungeons & dragon online MMO handle this are more appropriate and practical. Like Robai said earlier, they simply punish the player with different level of debuffs in any zerg attempt. The more aggro the player pull without thinning the number, the heavier the debuffs the whole party are gonna get. In the end even the most BIS player or group will be overwhelm if not carefull. That solved a lot of zerg issue. Although zerger in that game usually avoid getting aggro by sneaking around or play with the level of debuff so it maintain at an acceptable level. People couldn't hard zerg the dungeon but minor zerg is still doable. That makes both the zerger and anti zerger happy since non zerger could catch up and support the zerger while zerger are still able to zerg but at the pace they could handle.
Hard to say, I am thinking maybe @dolrey is trolling? I don't do dungeons often, but what "level" of dungeons? Why would you title this "Increase Death Penalty Please" and not even talk about the death penalty all that much to begin with? I foresee this thread heading for the Lower Depths very quick once a moderator has read it. This is either, not well thought out or you are trolling? You do know they use to make us wait 3 minutes and not just 30 seconds per injury correct? Also Injury Kits cost us 70 silver or 0.7 gold, the only ones sold for AD are in the Auction sold by players.
He is not trolling, he just really likes being nerfed. Has been asking for changes to make things more difficult for years, but mostly it has been specific to GF (the class he appears to play most).
Maybe if someone dies, the penalty should be the loss of your main hand weapon, then off hand . . . . . . then randomly loose the rest of your gear. All enchants is said piece of gear lost as well . . . . . . .
We call that Everquest where you have to get to your corpse before a time limit or lose all your gear. That's one reason why I'm here and not there.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
What problem exactly are you having with the fact that people dying in dungeons still have rewards from it? The game is supposed to reward you for finishing a dungeon, and that's exactly what it's doing. It should not matter if you failed 1, 5, 10 times you still are supposed to have at least a gain for finishing it.
This post is non-sense for several reasons for me: - It's already the case when you use scrolls of mass life, you spend more than you'll earn from the dungeon. - VIP players are not impacted at all by that since they don't have injuries (thanks Cryptic for that btw, really appreciated). - People buying kits don't buy them with AD, or else they don't know better, because who would spend AD on it when you can spend gold. Dungeons reward you AD, and you farm gold elsewhere, so the two are not linked. (can be converted of course, but rewards are not directly linked to what death costs you). - If you make kits costs 10-20 gold (emphasis), then you'll have all the low/medium-geared players without VIP that have difficulties with dungeons not doing them anymore since it'll cost them more than it'll reward them.
The game is supposed to be fun. It won't be for all these players if running a dungeon costs them more than they'll earn from it.
"more info" i just read your precedent thread, all I see is some troll or just extremely biased elements. You didn't and still don't provide any decent argument to support your idea.
What problem exactly are you having with the fact that people dying in dungeons still have rewards from it? The game is supposed to reward you for finishing a dungeon, and that's exactly what it's doing. It should not matter if you failed 1, 5, 10 times you still are supposed to have at least a gain for finishing it.
This post is non-sense for several reasons for me: - It's already the case when you use scrolls of mass life, you spend more than you'll earn from the dungeon. - VIP players are not impacted at all by that since they don't have injuries (thanks Cryptic for that btw, really appreciated). - People buying kits don't buy them with AD, or else they don't know better, because who would spend AD on it when you can spend gold. Dungeons reward you AD, and you farm gold elsewhere, so the two are not linked. (can be converted of course, but rewards are not directly linked to what death costs you). - If you make kits costs 10-20 gold (emphasis), then you'll have all the low/medium-geared players without VIP that have difficulties with dungeons not doing them anymore since it'll cost them more than it'll reward them.
The game is supposed to be fun. It won't be for all these players if running a dungeon costs them more than they'll earn from it.
This thread is addition to previous one. There is more info.
how about u make a post in the other thread then instead of spamming new ones?
Comments
The problem is with *uncertainty*, or rather the lack thereof. There is little to no randomness in dungeons. A speedrunner can run ahead because he's run the dungeon enough times that he knows *exactly* what lies ahead. He knows exactly where the traps are, how many enemies there are, and exactly what type. He knows exactly what it will take to defeat them. In short, he knows that there will be no nasty surprises.
This is the problem. Dungeons should always have an air of uncertainty. What danger lurks around the next corner? For that matter, *is* there a next corner, or has a cave-in taken place that will force you to take an alternate route? Dungeons have denizens and should be somewhat dynamic. This is one reason why I have railed (and railed and railed and RAILED) against the closure of side areas. The enemies in dungeons don't just sit around waiting for the next batch of adventurers to annihilate them. Enemies are in that dungeon for their own reasons, doing their own thing. For that matter, if a dungeon is large enough not every enemy might be on the same page so to speak. A random event that forces players to take alternate action might put them in contact with an entirely different group of occupants with their own agenda (which -- *gasp* -- might even include some dialogue!).
Good dungeon design requires thinking about why it was originally built, why the current occupants are there and what their agenda(s) are. If you've played my first Foundry (Cap Snatchers) before it was taken down you know a little of what I'm talking about. The final map was a dungeon map with multiple ways to reach the end, multiple roaming patrols, enemies behind murder holes at strategic positions, and multiple gates where you actually had to find and fight your way to the opening mechanism before you could enter. The map was built with thought put into what it required for its occupants to actually live there -- rooms for sleeping, eating, gathering water, disposing of trash, combat practice, weapon and armor smithing, supplies, guarding prisoners, magical research, and rooms dedicated to defending the dungeon from intruders (e.g. with murder holes). Players had to *find* what they needed to advance, which meant putting their exploration hats on. Rarely if ever do we see this sort of thing in queued dungeons, and this is a problem.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Stop trolling the players.
Maybe if someone dies, the penalty should be the loss of your main hand weapon, then off hand . . . . . . then randomly loose the rest of your gear. All enchants is said piece of gear lost as well . . . . . . .
Neverwinter is not broken! There is no problem with players who are simply good at playing this game! Good players do not offend me or ruin the game for me. I appreciate having good players on my team! If you are good enough to "Zerg", go for it! Clearly, you've taken your character build seriously enough to build them up, equip them and get all of your refinements up to 14! Awesome! You've earned it! Zerg away!
Now look at these trolls who typically wear nothing but green armors, with white or green companions, white or green mounts, no enchantments and absolutely nothing refined. If you aren't willing to put in the effort to build up your character, you forfeit your right to complain about anything let alone about another player "Zerging". You literally epitomise what it means to be an MMO troll, and deeply resent those who have what you are not willing to work hard and earn for yourself!
I have been playing Neverwinter and enjoying it immensely for the most part (prior to mod 16 which is still a dumpster-fire). The issue here are the blasted nit-picking trolls who just can't (or won't) carry their own weight but who are not happy until they have found something (anything) to make life miserable for every other player in this game! This is what MMO trolls live for and this is what has killed off many an MMO in times past.
Seriously, either play Neverwinter for what it is or just go play Dark Souls!
In spite of the changes made in mod 16, there are still numerous bots appearing in the queue that have not been changed to meet mod 16. These bots who are identical in build and gearing generally rush ahead past mobs - die - respawn - repeat. Although I have also seen bad bots that just run in circles and do nothing. Also, while a Zerg who is running ahead, or anybody lagging behind you will talk to you in chat, bots do not respond and they won't rez another player that has fallen.
The easy fix would be either join a guild (or make your own) with a focus on regular daily guild-queues to eliminate the hassle of a bad queue with strangers.
Mod 16 is a step in the wrong direction. Neverwinter has suffered changes that have served no purplose but to hurt the overall gameplay and long-time players are leaving as a result. Speaking for myself, I really do not want to see Neverwinter go the way of Star Wars Galaxies or WildStar, but it will unless good players are no longer punished for being good players... Neverwinter will not see 2020.
cuz that's what i make out from what i read .
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
The game is supposed to reward you for finishing a dungeon, and that's exactly what it's doing. It should not matter if you failed 1, 5, 10 times you still are supposed to have at least a gain for finishing it.
This post is non-sense for several reasons for me:
- It's already the case when you use scrolls of mass life, you spend more than you'll earn from the dungeon.
- VIP players are not impacted at all by that since they don't have injuries (thanks Cryptic for that btw, really appreciated).
- People buying kits don't buy them with AD, or else they don't know better, because who would spend AD on it when you can spend gold. Dungeons reward you AD, and you farm gold elsewhere, so the two are not linked. (can be converted of course, but rewards are not directly linked to what death costs you).
- If you make kits costs 10-20 gold (emphasis), then you'll have all the low/medium-geared players without VIP that have difficulties with dungeons not doing them anymore since it'll cost them more than it'll reward them.
The game is supposed to be fun. It won't be for all these players if running a dungeon costs them more than they'll earn from it.