OP, GWF control too long

superstevenshu · June 2019

3-5 seconds control from some power of OP anf GWF. This definitely need a fix in pvp. Also gwf stun ignores dodge, which is ridiculous.

just want to make complement, the gwf punishing charge, and OP stun power also ignores elven, as well as cc stacks, meaning that they can still control you 3-5 seconds even you have 3 stacks of cc and elven on you. it's like stun, popcorn, stun, popcorn .......

alfalolz · June 2019

Yep, thats like 3-4 seconds stun which can not be dodged with a shift. You still get a stun even if you try to dodge it.

Has to be looked at for sure.

Unknown · June 2019

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alfalolz · June 2019

pariswinters#7118 said:
Smite....900 magnitude,no cooldown "added effect: stun" 50' range....Paladin is a ranged dps class now. My hardest hitting encounter is forgemasters flame....650 magnitude....and this is AS dps.

Very true indeed. Smite stuns even if you shift or dodge no matter what you get stunned too.

alfalolz · June 2019

superstevenshu said:
3-5 seconds control from some power of OP anf GWF. Whats is the name for those powers? This definitely need a fix in pvp.

GFW and GF stuns are shield throw.

Unknown · June 2019

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alfalolz · June 2019

pariswinters#7118 said:
Forgemasters Flame needs to do an unavoidable stun for 3 seconds for pvp to be balanced for Arbiter xD

(Adding Prone would be nice also)

You must be joking right? FF is the skill that uses divinity, stun would be too op i must guess. We should have a control on Geas that has a 20 sec cd. Would be more fair then spaming FFs everywhere.

Unknown · June 2019

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trgluestickz · June 2019

When fighting paladins, I end up spending most of the fight running around the outskirts with the daze symbol above my head unable to cast anything. They can apply dazes and stuns often and they each last a long time. Barbarians also have some nasty stuns of their own.

When multiple tank classes are present, they often manage to lock me down for 10 seconds or more, you can't even move when this happens and the only viable defense I've found is build tanky and hope and pray for a gap in their rotation before your HP runs out.

trgluestickz · June 2019

In general, control effects are out of hand gamewide, everything lasts too long in mod 16 and elven battle doesn't seem to be an adequate defense against it, though it does help a tiny bit. Rogue's cooldown for impossible to catch is too long for it to be worth slotting and you would only be able to use an ogma's token of free movement once every 60 seconds.

trgluestickz · June 2019

pariswinters#7118 said:
Smite....900 magnitude,no cooldown "added effect: stun" 50' range....Paladin is a ranged dps class now. My hardest hitting encounter is forgemasters flame....650 magnitude....and this is AS dps.

My rogue's hardest hitting encounter power, the one literally called assassinate, is 650 magnitude as well. It casts fast, its melee range, and comes with a small interrupt effect. Its cooldown is around 14 - 13 secs depending on your cooldown reduction. Still a very good power but compared to 900 with a stronger CC effect, an even shorter cast time, and ranged 80 feet, it looks lacking.

kangkeok · June 2019

I hope the developer don't do any changes that affect pve because in pve, it is those stun that save peoples life.

schietindebux · June 2019

If I run oathkeeper setup and pop circle of power with a feat called Spirit of Austerity, I can spam smite at 450 mag 20 times in a row without draining Divinity

Unknown · June 2019

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alfalolz · June 2019

barbie#2808 said:
can we get some recordings of those stuns that everyone talks about? Also name them powers that you guys consider long stun duration, because all i see from this thread for now are just learn to play issues.

shield throw is one of the most op ones. GF and GWF.

you can always watch my pvp stream on Twitch. twitch.tv/alfalolz

( ive got LOADS of videos, and you can take a look at those tanks that stun in my shift )

Unknown · June 2019

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alfalolz · June 2019

barbie#2808 said:

alfalolz said:

barbie#2808 said:
can we get some recordings of those stuns that everyone talks about? Also name them powers that you guys consider long stun duration, because all i see from this thread for now are just learn to play issues.
shield throw is one of the most op ones. GF and GWF.

you can always watch my pvp stream on Twitch. twitch.tv/alfalolz

( ive got LOADS of videos, and you can take a look at those tanks that stun in my shift )

When you say GWF, u mean Barbarian, i never heard of a Shield Throw on Barbarian?

Also arent you guys a bit to quick to judge these CC effects.. i mean they last for 2-3 seconds. I dont find them a issue. Obviously if there is a power that Controls while we have immunity Frames wouldn't be good.
I haven't seen anything overpowered with the Barbarian control, especially we are talkin Barbarian that is a Class that requires you to land your Power on enemy, so its not like other classes that can CC you with a passive buff.

LE: i have watched your stream, i find these accusations pointless, based on your stream i could only see you gettin angry, there aren't enough proofs for Developers to change anything just because of a whim... You playing a Cleric, which has its own good points in PVP, and someone else plays another class, just bcuz they kill you, doesn't mean they are overpowered...
Anyway if there is a bug with any CC power that goes into immunity, that should be fixed. But currently when you say GWF aka Barbarian, i really do not know what Power does that, as there is no Shield Throw on this Class.

There is almost no class that kills me pvp wise 1v1. Im not saying that you have to nerf it. Im trying to say that it STUNs whenever i shift it. Basically GF can throw a shield for a 3.4 sec stun and it goes through my SHIFT. Shift is made to dodge attacks and not get into control effect. But as of now, its broken. Watch more of my videos and you will understand what im trying to say. Thx.

P.S. And im sorry i have miss typed I meant to say that GF has a undodgable stun which is 3.4 sec.

Unknown · June 2019

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trgluestickz · June 2019

barbie#2808 said:

alfalolz said:

barbie#2808 said:
can we get some recordings of those stuns that everyone talks about? Also name them powers that you guys consider long stun duration, because all i see from this thread for now are just learn to play issues.
shield throw is one of the most op ones. GF and GWF.

you can always watch my pvp stream on Twitch. twitch.tv/alfalolz

( ive got LOADS of videos, and you can take a look at those tanks that stun in my shift )

Also arent you guys a bit to quick to judge these CC effects.. i mean they last for 2-3 seconds. I dont find them a issue.

By any chance, would you happen to have any class that isn't a tank that you actually use regularly in PVP? If you are playing a non-tank class, you don't have anywhere close to the CC immunity frames that all 3 tank classes currently have. My rogue for example, has very limited defenses against CCs this mod. Our only CC immunity frames that don't gimp us too much to use are duelist's flurry's short CC immunity frame and our dodges. The dodges don't work against all CCs anymore, some just go right through. The same is true of DF's immunity frame.

Also, I'd like to mention that 2 to 3 seconds is a very long CC effect, and that is the new normal for control effects in this game. In most mods previously, most CCs in PVP were very short, around 0.2 through 1.2 secs after average CC resist and tenacity is applied. Both then and now, there are a lot of CC effects avalable in PVP and you get hit with CCs back to back regularly. If I get hit with just two 3 second CCs as an example, that is up to 6 seconds where I can't attack at best. Factor in procs, artifacts, AOE stuns/dazes, more players, ect. and you end up locked down for 10+ seconds easily.

Unknown · June 2019

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alfalolz · June 2019

barbie#2808 said:
> @trgluestickz said:

> can we get some recordings of those stuns that everyone talks about? Also name them powers that you guys consider long stun duration, because all i see from this thread for now are just learn to play issues.

>

> shield throw is one of the most op ones. GF and GWF.

>

> you can always watch my pvp stream on Twitch. twitch.tv/alfalolz

>

> ( ive got LOADS of videos, and you can take a look at those tanks that stun in my shift )

>

>

>

> Also arent you guys a bit to quick to judge these CC effects.. i mean they last for 2-3 seconds. I dont find them a issue.

>

> By any chance, would you happen to have any class that isn't a tank that you actually use regularly in PVP? If you are playing a non-tank class, you don't have anywhere close to the CC immunity frames that all 3 tank classes currently have. My rogue for example, has very limited defenses against CCs this mod. Our only CC immunity frames that don't gimp us too much to use are duelist's flurry's short CC immunity frame and our dodges. The dodges don't work against all CCs anymore, some just go right through. The same is true of DF's immunity frame.

>

> Also, I'd like to mention that 2 to 3 seconds is a very long CC effect, and that is the new normal for control effects in this game. In most mods previously, most CCs in PVP were very short, around 0.2 through 1.2 secs after average CC resist and tenacity is applied. Both then and now, there are a lot of CC effects avalable in PVP and you get hit with CCs back to back regularly. If I get hit with just two 3 second CCs as an example, that is up to 6 seconds where I can't attack at best. Factor in procs, artifacts, AOE stuns/dazes, more players, ect. and you end up locked down for 10+ seconds easily.

I watched this alfaguy stream, and i noticed his Cleric was facing situations of 1 v2, he was winning, and guess what with all of those stuns he managed to get through that situation, obviously he wont be able to do that all of the times, but just because he cant do it doesnt mean "hey nerf the cc so i wont hv a problem" , now goin back on your problem with youe Rogue, you are also describing situations in which you are facing 1 v 2/v3 , so i kno Trickster Rogue was a god class, but then again what is the problem if 3 classes stun you for 10s? I read more and more and Fighter and Barbarian have Single Target CC powers, so obviously what you encounter from these 2 classes are scenarions of 1v2 or 1v3... may i add that CC, healing, damage etc. Are part of the game, i dont agree with them powers to ignore immune to CC powers, but didnt we had Courage Breaker that done the same thing ?

Even though i got through those stuns and i can play 1v2 most of the time and manage to survive ( yea im maxed out pvp toon of 26k) its pretty silly to get a FULL stun in a shift mechanic. (and stun feels like 4 sec more then 3) elven battle DOES not reduce its effect too for some reason.

trgluestickz · June 2019

barbie#2808 said:
> @trgluestickz said:

> can we get some recordings of those stuns that everyone talks about? Also name them powers that you guys consider long stun duration, because all i see from this thread for now are just learn to play issues.

>

> shield throw is one of the most op ones. GF and GWF.

>

> you can always watch my pvp stream on Twitch. twitch.tv/alfalolz

>

> ( ive got LOADS of videos, and you can take a look at those tanks that stun in my shift )

>

>

>

> Also arent you guys a bit to quick to judge these CC effects.. i mean they last for 2-3 seconds. I dont find them a issue.

>

> By any chance, would you happen to have any class that isn't a tank that you actually use regularly in PVP? If you are playing a non-tank class, you don't have anywhere close to the CC immunity frames that all 3 tank classes currently have. My rogue for example, has very limited defenses against CCs this mod. Our only CC immunity frames that don't gimp us too much to use are duelist's flurry's short CC immunity frame and our dodges. The dodges don't work against all CCs anymore, some just go right through. The same is true of DF's immunity frame.

>

> Also, I'd like to mention that 2 to 3 seconds is a very long CC effect, and that is the new normal for control effects in this game. In most mods previously, most CCs in PVP were very short, around 0.2 through 1.2 secs after average CC resist and tenacity is applied. Both then and now, there are a lot of CC effects avalable in PVP and you get hit with CCs back to back regularly. If I get hit with just two 3 second CCs as an example, that is up to 6 seconds where I can't attack at best. Factor in procs, artifacts, AOE stuns/dazes, more players, ect. and you end up locked down for 10+ seconds easily.

I watched this alfaguy stream, and i noticed his Cleric was facing situations of 1 v2, he was winning, and guess what with all of those stuns he managed to get through that situation, obviously he wont be able to do that all of the times, but just because he cant do it doesnt mean "hey nerf the cc so i wont hv a problem" , now goin back on your problem with youe Rogue, you are also describing situations in which you are facing 1 v 2/v3 , so i kno Trickster Rogue was a god class, but then again what is the problem if 3 classes stun you for 10s? I read more and more and Fighter and Barbarian have Single Target CC powers, so obviously what you encounter from these 2 classes are scenarions of 1v2 or 1v3... may i add that CC, healing, damage etc. Are part of the game, i dont agree with them powers to ignore immune to CC powers, but didnt we had Courage Breaker that done the same thing ?

I am not your average rogue and I am not saying I can't hold my own. Just because I can perform well doesn't mean tank classes don't have a clear cut advantage over the damage only classes in just about every category, including damage. Paladin and barbarian stick out the most but fighter is also stronger.

Also, its not just 3vs1s where I get locked down for very long time. Single paladins can easily have me CCed for around 10 seconds. Barbarians also have long CCs and if you end up in 2vs1 with them and anyone else with CCs, they can lock you down for 10+ seconds as well.

As for the courage breaker thing, rogues could use it too often before mod 16 dropped owing to recovery being out of control. The power itself is a daily power and rogues now have to wait 2 to 3 minutes to get their daily back. We also tend to use higher damage dailies a lot more than we do courage breaker now. Depending on how they are built, how much they are getting CCed by their opponent, and what artifact they use, it can be as long as 5 minutes wait.

trgluestickz · June 2019

Also to be clear, I'm not the sort of player who thinks nerfs are always the way to go. Buffing weaker classes and other changes to PVP is also an option. I think it will need to be mix of multiple things; bugfixes, buffs to weaker classes, other changes to PVP, and nerfs to anything that isn't reasonable to try and fix other ways.

The devs are almost certainly going to shorten CCs gamewide in some way and/or grant better defenses against them since they are aware that its out of hand. I do hope they make CCs a little bit longer than they were last mod since encounters and dailies do have longer cooldowns now.

As for tanks, the devs have said multiple times that they are keeping an eye on the tanks in PVP. Its less clear what actions they will take since it seems they are still waiting to see how things pan out this mod.

Unknown · June 2019

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Unknown · June 2019

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trgluestickz · June 2019

barbie#2808 said:

trgluestickz said:
Also to be clear, I'm not the sort of player who thinks nerfs are always the way to go. Buffing weaker classes and other changes to PVP is also an option. I think it will need to be mix of multiple things; bugfixes, buffs to weaker classes, other changes to PVP, and nerfs to anything that isn't reasonable to try and fix other ways.

The devs are almost certainly going to shorten CCs gamewide in some way and/or grant better defenses against them since they are aware that its out of hand. I do hope they make CCs a little bit longer than they were last mod since encounters and dailies do have longer cooldowns now.

As for tanks, the devs have said multiple times that they are keeping an eye on the tanks in PVP. Its less clear what actions they will take since it seems they are still waiting to see how things pan out this mod.
I really do not see a point into nerfing anything on Fighter and Barbarian, and i also do not see a point of buffing weaker classes, which in your terms the weaker classes are the ones that do not have 3s Control power. It's so stupid, and all is about learn to play.

I did not say anywhere that weaker classes are weaker because we don't have 3 second CCs, that is a total strawman or you didn't pay attention. We do have good CC albeit not the best, my example of a weakpoint was CC immunity frames. Also, tank classes don't just do CC and Cc immunity frames better, they also do damage, tankyness, and self healing better than dps classes. Fighter isn't included for the self healing bit or CC bit (except for the one that goes through dodge) but everything else applies.

Obviously the tankyness and self healing bits are what they are supposed to be the best at but they can have this and equal or better damage than classes with damage only roles at the same time. Along with the best CC.

As for what I'd suggest for buffing weaker classes in PVP like ranger and rogue, they could all use more damage and some improvements made to their CC immunity frames. Scourge warlock while it does have healer role, needs the same thing on its dps role. Wizard and cleric are a little bit better than the other 3 and I know less about what they need if anything.

Another thing that would help is the devs to adjust player tankyness in general, especially healing. Its too easy to reach an immortal state on all classes though tanks do it the best by far and away.

Unknown · June 2019

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Unknown · June 2019

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Unknown · June 2019

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alfalolz · June 2019

superstevenshu said:
just want to make complement, the gwf punishing charge, and OP stun power both ignores dodge, and also their stun ignores elven, ignores cc stack, meaning that they can still control you 3-5 seconds even you have 3 stacks of cc and elven on you

@nitocris83
please have a look of this thread, this definitely need a fast fix, ty!

yea, they are ignoring dodge!

alfalolz · June 2019

superstevenshu said:

pariswinters#7118 said:
> @superstevenshu said:

> just want to make complement, the gwf punishing charge, and OP stun power both ignores dodge, and also their stun ignores elven, ignores cc stack, meaning that they can still control you 3-5 seconds even you have 3 stacks of cc and elven on you

>

> @nitocris83

> please have a look of this thread, this definitely need a fast fix, ty!

you stunlock me in pvp and have the nerve to complain about OP and GWF control!? ROFL thats rich steven, even from you
GF always same control since mod 1, no change this mod, and GF control respect cc stacks and elven, not like op/gwf control, which is a bug

GF's thield throw - DOES ignore dodge and it does NOT respect cc stacks and elven. Totally broken.

OP, GWF control too long

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