Wtf is all this sh** about pure dps and not?? If you have a dps path you are a dps period. It doesn't matter if you have a path that allows you to go healer or tank.
Their entire purpose of balancing classes was that all dps given the same stats/gear should do the same ammount of dmg at least to me thats the definition of balance.
Now clearly there are classes that are outperforming others and that needs to be adressed. Haven't touched on my sw since mod 11/12 for obvious reasons, my paladin does way more dmg than my fighter and i'm left with the cleric that i hate because of these stupid divinity peeps that i have to fill to do dmg
so this mod has been live for like a month now.... been doing a few group dungeons here and there.... i play every class as well...
My general consensus is that wizard is overpowered, and is top dps now...... warlock is #2 ranger is #3 rogue is #4 arbiter cleric is #5 Paladin tank is #6 and both fighter and barbarian are tied for lowest dps
i don't feel any class needs nerfs but it does seem that wizard is disproportionately more powerful then all the other classes....and paladin tank has some strange ability to constantly spam daily powers at will in PVE or they wouldn't even be in my DPS classes list
I base these assumptions on runs i have done with players in the 20-25k range with about the same gear as i run on my 22k cleric. just did 10 or so codg with a few different players being swapped around between runs.....a few times i was top dps....but mostly a wizard with nearly the same gear as me was doing 2x my dps or more....same with ranger and rogue....there are definitely some balance issues going on that need to be looked into with scrutiny by someone who is qualified to do this kind of thing.
thoughts?
Wrong. TR is #1. HR #2. Quit trying to axe the CW. If you look you will find that a good TR or HR will outDPS any CW anytime. Take a good, long look, and tell me I'm lying. Because I am not. Do CW's have good control effects? Yes. Well, more so than the TR's and HR's. But when it comes down to DPS, someone actually tested all the classes at the same iLevel, and CW was #3. We do about 10% less damage than the HR and the HR does about 5% less damage than the TR.
Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
did the devs state there was even such a thing as pure dps and non pure dps? if they did i must have missed it, and I've followed the forums and participated in testing since the day module 16 went on preview
No, but it's not a coincidence that the top DPS classes are those with two "pure DPS" paths.
either nerf wizard and ranger to do 1/2 damage or bring all the other classes up to par....thx (i dont care about nerfing warlock because almost nobody can play dps warlock correct)
you are really being harmful imo. all this would do is make this game that much harder to do. the tr hr and cw are all 100 percent dps classes. the othes have dual roles. they have an advantage of another sort. it is BALANCED that the dps classes do more damage. all three are pretty equal. it's where it should be. going nerf nerf nerf just drives more nails into the coffin of this game....
either nerf wizard and ranger to do 1/2 damage or bring all the other classes up to par....thx (i dont care about nerfing warlock because almost nobody can play dps warlock correct)
you are really being harmful imo. all this would do is make this game that much harder to do. the tr hr and cw are all 100 percent dps classes. the othes have dual roles. they have an advantage of another sort. it is BALANCED that the dps classes do more damage. all three are pretty equal. it's where it should be. going nerf nerf nerf just drives more nails into the coffin of this game....
honestly for shame..
It's that hard for you to understand that not everyone enjoys to play the "other role"? I'm a DPS Warlock for ages, i don't care about the healing path, i want my DPS path viable like any other DPS class. Devs said that classes with one DPS path should be the same as efficient as any other class with two DPS paths. Deal with that, balance means that all DPS paths should be good for any content.
the tr hr and cw are all 100 percent dps classes. the othes have dual roles. they have an advantage of another sort. it is BALANCED that the dps classes do more damage.
As I said before, this doesn't work. No one wants a half-hamstered DPS class, and hybrid roles aren't truly a thing in this new state of the game. Handicapped DPS works as a trade-off only when the class/path combo brings the value of two roles or a powerful buffing/support utility along with their DPS function, and that's not what we have here. Simply being able to switch roles at a campfire shouldn't be the factor here, not when the majority of classes in the game work like that.
If you are running a DPS path, you are a DPS and should be comparable to any other class' DPS path.
and the ONLY class with no DPS path?... ? yep Paladin. Kinda weird when you compare the Paladin to classic Dungeons & Dragons. Its OK though. It does decent DPS if you set it up that way. Not gonna out-DPS the best, but its more than half the best DPS. I think its fine, since you are normally gonna specialize in Tank or Healer. Its nice to be able to 'customize' how much DPS you want to add to this mix and what can be sacrificed for it without making a weak link.
the tr hr and cw are all 100 percent dps classes. the othes have dual roles. they have an advantage of another sort. it is BALANCED that the dps classes do more damage.
As I said before, this doesn't work. No one wants a half-hamstered DPS class, and hybrid roles aren't truly a thing in this new state of the game. Handicapped DPS works as a trade-off only when the class/path combo brings the value of two roles or a powerful buffing/support utility along with their DPS function, and that's not what we have here. Simply being able to switch roles at a campfire shouldn't be the factor here, not when the majority of classes in the game work like that.
If you are running a DPS path, you are a DPS and should be comparable to any other class' DPS path.
then rally on that instead of saying nerf the other classes into the ground. it is what it is now and I'm happy to go with that. if others are unhappy with their class not being strong enough then ask for particular feats or encounters to be buffed not for other classes to be nerfed to the ground. as it is you do still have a choice in the matter you can play as a tank or healer and probably have an easier time finding a match than as a dps in general
either nerf wizard and ranger to do 1/2 damage or bring all the other classes up to par....thx (i dont care about nerfing warlock because almost nobody can play dps warlock correct)
you are really being harmful imo. all this would do is make this game that much harder to do. the tr hr and cw are all 100 percent dps classes. the othes have dual roles. they have an advantage of another sort. it is BALANCED that the dps classes do more damage. all three are pretty equal. it's where it should be. going nerf nerf nerf just drives more nails into the coffin of this game....
honestly for shame..
It's that hard for you to understand that not everyone enjoys to play the "other role"? I'm a DPS Warlock for ages, i don't care about the healing path, i want my DPS path viable like any other DPS class. Devs said that classes with one DPS path should be the same as efficient as any other class with two DPS paths. Deal with that, balance means that all DPS paths should be good for any content.
no it's not hard for me to understand that. I've hung my dc out to dry for that reason. in the past few years I've created more than one viable class to play because of the devs flavor of the month tendencies. but it is what it is. it's been balanced this way. and from that perspective it's pretty darned balanced. you may not like having the other paths but you do have a flexibility to get runs you wouldn' thave otherwise. it's an advantage over pure dps thus the trade off is not maybe being as strong. (I guess). it is what it is. if you're unhappy about it complain about it. I don't care. what I do care about is going wahh nerf everyone to be as miserable as I am. balance means if I'm not happy no one else can be either!!!!
because that's part of the problem with this game.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
You cant really compare dps class vs class on dummy targets. Why?
Dummy targets dont move and you both engage in the single target at the same time.
In game this is not how things work. You start off at far range always then move to closer range must sometimes dodge and divert attacks to other targets to stay alive.
I dont want wizard to be nerfed they are at a good place right now.
Ranger may need a few tweaks to improve dps and uncap on aoe skills
Rogue should have dazing strike range increases a bit, also gloaming strike should have its damage increased by at least 50 magnitude and each hit should grant stealth bar. Activation for lashing blade should be shortened a bit.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
I dont want wizard to be nerfed they are at a good place right now.
Ranger may need a few tweaks to improve dps and uncap on aoe skills
Rogue should have dazing strike range increases a bit, also gloaming strike should have its damage increased by at least 50 magnitude and each hit should grant stealth bar.
Activation for lashing blade should be shortened a bit.
''I don't want wizard nerfed'' lol not biased at all.
Buff tr and hr - you are delusional if you think they still need dmg buffs.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited May 2019
An at will needs a boost yes... and some encounters need tweaking And the animation time needs to be shortened on lashing blade.
That's not a damage buff to lashing blade... just press it and it works instead of a huge delay.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
the tr hr and cw are all 100 percent dps classes. the othes have dual roles. they have an advantage of another sort. it is BALANCED that the dps classes do more damage.
As I said before, this doesn't work. No one wants a half-hamstered DPS class, and hybrid roles aren't truly a thing in this new state of the game. Handicapped DPS works as a trade-off only when the class/path combo brings the value of two roles or a powerful buffing/support utility along with their DPS function, and that's not what we have here. Simply being able to switch roles at a campfire shouldn't be the factor here, not when the majority of classes in the game work like that.
If you are running a DPS path, you are a DPS and should be comparable to any other class' DPS path.
then rally on that instead of saying nerf the other classes into the ground. it is what it is now and I'm happy to go with that. if others are unhappy with their class not being strong enough then ask for particular feats or encounters to be buffed not for other classes to be nerfed to the ground. as it is you do still have a choice in the matter you can play as a tank or healer and probably have an easier time finding a match than as a dps in general
I've said not one thing about nerfing other classes. Direct your suggestion elsewhere.
the tr hr and cw are all 100 percent dps classes. the othes have dual roles. they have an advantage of another sort. it is BALANCED that the dps classes do more damage.
As I said before, this doesn't work. No one wants a half-hamstered DPS class, and hybrid roles aren't truly a thing in this new state of the game. Handicapped DPS works as a trade-off only when the class/path combo brings the value of two roles or a powerful buffing/support utility along with their DPS function, and that's not what we have here. Simply being able to switch roles at a campfire shouldn't be the factor here, not when the majority of classes in the game work like that.
If you are running a DPS path, you are a DPS and should be comparable to any other class' DPS path.
then rally on that instead of saying nerf the other classes into the ground. it is what it is now and I'm happy to go with that. if others are unhappy with their class not being strong enough then ask for particular feats or encounters to be buffed not for other classes to be nerfed to the ground. as it is you do still have a choice in the matter you can play as a tank or healer and probably have an easier time finding a match than as a dps in general
I've said not one thing about nerfing other classes. Direct your suggestion elsewhere.
i was the one who said nerf em....i said nerf wiz and ranger or bring all the other dps onto an equal playing field actually....but the details get lost when you focus on one word (nerf)
People are triggered by the word "nerf" and lose their minds.
I look at nerfing things as a last resort, because you usually make fewer people dissatisfied by bringing the playing field up instead of knocking down the thing that was too strong.
It does happen now and then that nerfing really is the best option, though. If the current and past development teams had taken appropriate steps to arrest the massive (and obvious) power creep in the game design a few years ago, such an extreme overhaul might not have been necessary in M16. But what's done is done.
I haven't bothered comparing numbers from ACT or anything, but I main a DC, and I've had exactly no issue providing solid DPS to a group. It's all about proper resource management. If you're just firing off spells without max. pips, or not channeling divinity to refill the tank somewhere in your rotation, you're gonna be left in the dust. If you're casting with full pips, though, and keeping your divinity topped up, though, you can keep bringing the hurt for a long time.
That being said, the Wizards 2M+ at-will hits are likely a bug from somewhere, and that will hopefully be looked into and corrected (with much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I'm sure).
i just want some doggone class balance like we were promised, all through preview @asterdahl had me believing that cleric would be on par with other dps, he assured us over and over that in module 16 all dps paths would be equal in damage (eventually, because he admitted it wasn't, then did a few minor magnitude boosts and feat tweaks and declared it in a good place when it clearly is not) the envenomed journal isn't helping things either, it makes doing dps comparison almost useless because i don't have one and every other dps in the game does, and that thing counts for 75% of their AP gain and 30-40% of their damage. Honestly i wasn't even aware of how OP the darn thing was until i saw some ACT logs that @lardeson posted and some comments by other forum users who ran ACT
Thats one of the reasons we should be more careful with dps comparison for nerfs I guess? If you really wanted to compare dps-ers, you would need to run them all butt naked on preview with training weaps. People that have a LoMM-ready cw now actually went through frustrating times in the past and still kept their cw around, so they really know it inside-out. If you only compared the best TR/HR/CW-players out there in unscaled content it might be more interesting...
I haven't bothered comparing numbers from ACT or anything, but I main a DC, and I've had exactly no issue providing solid DPS to a group. It's all about proper resource management. If you're just firing off spells without max. pips, or not channeling divinity to refill the tank somewhere in your rotation, you're gonna be left in the dust. If you're casting with full pips, though, and keeping your divinity topped up, though, you can keep bringing the hurt for a long time.
That being said, the Wizards 2M+ at-will hits are likely a bug from somewhere, and that will hopefully be looked into and corrected (with much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I'm sure).
Arbiter technically works and is viable, but it's slow compared to other DPS of equivalent skill and gear. It brings big hits and high burst, but the slow pace of the rotation coupled with lack of proc damage limits its potential compared to most other DPS.
ok im not going to read all the comments, but well, first of all, i dont know a single good cw that uses chilling cloud over ray of frost, i personally have never used it so cant tell if its broken or not or whether ur test is in a place with broken scaling.
As for the topic in general, my opinion remains the same, doing tests on dummies and scaled contents where you can 1 shot everything and anyone who drops their daily first wins, you cant do a dps comparing there, cn and codg are the worst place to do dps tests, in cn even an OP can outdps a tr, same applies to cradle, and thats far from the reality of the game, where even if cw has a slight advantage over others mainly due to what i've been insisting on, "our ranged advantage and due to the fact we have aoes with no hit cap", i added an example where "if i hit a group of mob with fireball and conduit from distance and they crit, depending on the group of adds, im already doing 500k to 1mil+ more damage before you even get close to them"
The second aspect i touched had to do with stats, i also adviced u checked the dev stream from silv3ry where we did 1 normal run, then in the other 2 runs we reduced our stats to certain numbers, and those numbers made alot of difference in the dps chart. In the normal run i has 10k more CA and about 30k more power than the second dps who was also a cw, i outdpsed them by 50m. In the last 2 runs i dropped power to 90k cos it was a testrun just to prove that a well balanced 20k can do LMM without too much problem, i also dropped my Ca to 74k. On the other hand, the second cw (dontezz) had 95k power and 94k ca, which was 5k power and 20k More Ca than me. In these 2 runs he outdpses, first by 10m and second by 20m (died on last boss here).
What did you pick from that? its not only the class but stats matter and ofc the right player too, from being outdpsed by 50m to outdpsing me by 10-20m thats 70m difference.
Also i saw @jufes commented here, he's a cw too, with considerably lower stats than mine, about 40k+ power difference, dint check his ca, but pretty sure i had more, i outdpsed him by 50m and thats including the fact he died on arcturia. If you have been reading till now, you'll understand why i say "the same class performs differently in different hands".
The other point is as to what @schietindebux mentioned, pretty much saying everything im repeating, using the envenomed, doohickey helps, envonemed did 6% and doohickey did another 6% from. which is a total of 12% from 120m. It's easy to complain about a class being broken, but are you sure you are running the same stuff as those players? are you taking advantage of whatever your class has to offer over others?
I highly recommend any dps testings you do should be done in LMM and the comparison should be between stats, companions, artifacts, boons, etc and not least important, these tests should be on bosses, taking into consideration factors like, who had more aggro, who was stunned more, who did, who was using potions, food, etc. You can clearly see that there are alot of factors to consider.
Lastly @pariswinters#7118 i do alot of testing and testing and testing, i only main a cw but i run with every class in the game, from what i've seen, Tr is not behind Cw, infact the top 2 dpses right now are both Tr and Cw, if you doubt, invite Radmin and Aerin Sol to a group, run LMM with them, why them? they are the 2 players running Tr and Cw respectively with similar stats. The third place definitely has to be for Sw, they are only slightly below us btw, i only outdps punk because i use stuff like envenomed, doohickey, etc and have more stats than him and he's a SW. On the otherhand, i've only seen 2 good Hrs in this mod, the only one i can remember being Fenrick, but they'd only be ranked as 4th, unless i've been running with a bunch of bad rangers, i'd say they clearly need a boost, then there's the barbarian who's slightly above fighter and ofc fighter is on the bottom of the list as things stand. And again i highly recommend not to do tests anywhere u can kill stuff superfast, those are not tests, anyone who hits first and crits more will always win here.
If i did not mention the Dcs, its because i haven't played a dc in this mod, nor have i ran with any as a dps in LMM, but i do have a lvl 70 i stopped playing just cos i cant bother playing multiples in mod16, but yh seeing how they have super low cds, i can only say that the issue here is with the class itself, lack of dps is most likely due to high divinity requirements and not being able to keep up divinity for all the encounters. I did ask a question regarding this thou. ¿would the dcs be happy to have relatively longer cds, but lower divinity requirements?
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
ok im not going to read all the comments, but well, first of all, i dont know a single good cw that uses chilling cloud over ray of frost, i personally have never used it so cant tell if its broken or not or whether ur test is in a place with broken scaling.
As for the topic in general, my opinion remains the same, doing tests on dummies and scaled contents where you can 1 shot everything and anyone who drops their daily first wins, you cant do a dps comparing there, cn and codg are the worst place to do dps tests, in cn even an OP can outdps a tr, same applies to cradle, and thats far from the reality of the game, where even if cw has a slight advantage over others mainly due to what i've been insisting on, "our ranged advantage and due to the fact we have aoes with no hit cap", i added an example where "if i hit a group of mob with fireball and conduit from distance and they crit, depending on the group of adds, im already doing 500k to 1mil+ more damage before you even get close to them"
The second aspect i touched had to do with stats, i also adviced u checked the dev stream from silv3ry where we did 1 normal run, then in the other 2 runs we reduced our stats to certain numbers, and those numbers made alot of difference in the dps chart. In the normal run i has 10k more CA and about 30k more power than the second dps who was also a cw, i outdpsed them by 50m. In the last 2 runs i dropped power to 90k cos it was a testrun just to prove that a well balanced 20k can do LMM without too much problem, i also dropped my Ca to 74k. On the other hand, the second cw (dontezz) had 95k power and 94k ca, which was 5k power and 20k More Ca than me. In these 2 runs he outdpses, first by 10m and second by 20m (died on last boss here).
What did you pick from that? its not only the class but stats matter and ofc the right player too, from being outdpsed by 50m to outdpsing me by 10-20m thats 70m difference.
Also i saw @jufes commented here, he's a cw too, with considerably lower stats than mine, about 40k+ power difference, dint check his ca, but pretty sure i had more, i outdpsed him by 50m and thats including the fact he died on arcturia. If you have been reading till now, you'll understand why i say "the same class performs differently in different hands".
The other point is as to what @schietindebux mentioned, pretty much saying everything im repeating, using the envenomed, doohickey helps, envonemed did 6% and doohickey did another 6% from. which is a total of 12% from 120m. It's easy to complain about a class being broken, but are you sure you are running the same stuff as those players? are you taking advantage of whatever your class has to offer over others?
I highly recommend any dps testings you do should be done in LMM and the comparison should be between stats, companions, artifacts, boons, etc and not least important, these tests should be on bosses, taking into consideration factors like, who had more aggro, who was stunned more, who did, who was using potions, food, etc. You can clearly see that there are alot of factors to consider.
Lastly @pariswinters#7118 i do alot of testing and testing and testing, i only main a cw but i run with every class in the game, from what i've seen, Tr is not behind Cw, infact the top 2 dpses right now are both Tr and Cw, if you doubt, invite Radmin and Aerin Sol to a group, run LMM with them, why them? they are the 2 players running Tr and Cw respectively with similar stats. The third place definitely has to be for Sw, they are only slightly below us btw, i only outdps punk because i use stuff like envenomed, doohickey, etc and have more stats than him and he's a SW. On the otherhand, i've only seen 2 good Hrs in this mod, the only one i can remember being Fenrick, but they'd only be ranked as 4th, unless i've been running with a bunch of bad rangers, i'd say they clearly need a boost, then there's the barbarian who's slightly above fighter and ofc fighter is on the bottom of the list as things stand. And again i highly recommend not to do tests anywhere u can kill stuff superfast, those are not tests, anyone who hits first and crits more will always win here.
If i did not mention the Dcs, its because i haven't played a dc in this mod, nor have i ran with any as a dps in LMM, but i do have a lvl 70 i stopped playing just cos i cant bother playing multiples in mod16, but yh seeing how they have super low cds, i can only say that the issue here is with the class itself, lack of dps is most likely due to high divinity requirements and not being able to keep up divinity for all the encounters. I did ask a question regarding this thou. ¿would the dcs be happy to have relatively longer cds, but lower divinity requirements?
clerics have a few encounters with cooldowns, and those are the ones that do not cost divinity. I don't know what I want, i just want my cleric to be on par with other dps paths as for stats she is capped for all cappable stats, has 110,000 CA and 120,000 power unbuffed, so its not like I'm making this argument for nothing. I can't do the damage other dps classes do, and I feel like there are balance Issues.
OK let me ask you guys another question. Would you be happy if Dc only had 1 role Dps/heals? would you be happy if same happend with the Sw, Barbarian and Fighter? im asking this cos i see alot of "we dont care about the dual roles, we just want more dps". From what i see, this is only fair if each classes had dual roles or just a single role, this would balance everything in the same concerning viability, cos you like it or not, just like firecat said, if Dual roles classes were to do as much dps as the single role classes, think of where this would leave those single roled classes. It's easy to think for one's self but if you really want change and balance, you have to think more objectively, cos what may be a buff for ur class may end up not only nerfing certain classes but isolate them, just like they did with the tr in previous mods where no one wanted them anywhere but Pvp.
What i actually find funny about this is people complaining "only" about the dps aspect of balance, above the cw and tr, there's clearly the OP, they are viable as tank, heals and if built for, as dps. So you currently take 5 OPs into any dungeon and clear it without an issue. But should they be nerfed? nope, in the other post i suggested all tanks to be able to take damage for the group while all healers should be able to heal+shield like the OP.
What would these changes do? instead of me running with 2 OPs like i currently do, or ppl only looking for tr/cw/sw, i'd only need to go "LFM LMM Dps/tank/heals". thats where we should be trying to reach, not asking for nerfs.
Again this is my opinion, asking for nerfs is easy, but giving solutions to the desired "balanced" is what you should aim for. nerfs only cause an infinite circle of complains, where 1 class gets nerfed, they underperform and no longer viable, which leads to complains resulting in more nerfs and this circle just goes on and on and on forever without ever reaching a balanced point.
Next time it'd be much more better something like " hey cryptic my class is underperforming compared to other classes and this is what i believe should be improved for us to be on the same level as those classes". No hate, no nerfs, just buffs. if classes end up being overpowered compared to the environment, you atleast have the classes balanced, now all you'd need to worry about is making the environment more challenging for them.
Post edited by lardeson on
Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
Comments
Their entire purpose of balancing classes was that all dps given the same stats/gear should do the same ammount of dmg at least to me thats the definition of balance.
Now clearly there are classes that are outperforming others and that needs to be adressed.
Haven't touched on my sw since mod 11/12 for obvious reasons, my paladin does way more dmg than my fighter and i'm left with the cleric that i hate because of these stupid divinity peeps that i have to fill to do dmg
Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
you are really being harmful imo. all this would do is make this game that much harder to do. the tr hr and cw are all 100 percent dps classes. the othes have dual roles. they have an advantage of another sort. it is BALANCED that the dps classes do more damage. all three are pretty equal. it's where it should be. going nerf nerf nerf just drives more nails into the coffin of this game....
honestly for shame..
If you are running a DPS path, you are a DPS and should be comparable to any other class' DPS path.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
because that's part of the problem with this game.
Dummy targets dont move and you both engage in the single target at the same time.
In game this is not how things work.
You start off at far range always then move to closer range must sometimes dodge and divert attacks to other targets to stay alive.
I dont want wizard to be nerfed they are at a good place right now.
Ranger may need a few tweaks to improve dps and uncap on aoe skills
Rogue should have dazing strike range increases a bit, also gloaming strike should have its damage increased by at least 50 magnitude and each hit should grant stealth bar.
Activation for lashing blade should be shortened a bit.
Buff tr and hr - you are delusional if you think they still need dmg buffs.
And the animation time needs to be shortened on lashing blade.
That's not a damage buff to lashing blade... just press it and it works instead of a huge delay.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I look at nerfing things as a last resort, because you usually make fewer people dissatisfied by bringing the playing field up instead of knocking down the thing that was too strong.
It does happen now and then that nerfing really is the best option, though. If the current and past development teams had taken appropriate steps to arrest the massive (and obvious) power creep in the game design a few years ago, such an extreme overhaul might not have been necessary in M16. But what's done is done.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
That being said, the Wizards 2M+ at-will hits are likely a bug from somewhere, and that will hopefully be looked into and corrected (with much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I'm sure).
If you really wanted to compare dps-ers, you would need to run them all butt naked on preview with training weaps.
People that have a LoMM-ready cw now actually went through frustrating times in the past and still kept their cw around, so they really know it inside-out. If you only compared the best TR/HR/CW-players out there in unscaled content it might be more interesting...
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
As for the topic in general, my opinion remains the same, doing tests on dummies and scaled contents where you can 1 shot everything and anyone who drops their daily first wins, you cant do a dps comparing there, cn and codg are the worst place to do dps tests, in cn even an OP can outdps a tr, same applies to cradle, and thats far from the reality of the game, where even if cw has a slight advantage over others mainly due to what i've been insisting on, "our ranged advantage and due to the fact we have aoes with no hit cap", i added an example where "if i hit a group of mob with fireball and conduit from distance and they crit, depending on the group of adds, im already doing 500k to 1mil+ more damage before you even get close to them"
The second aspect i touched had to do with stats, i also adviced u checked the dev stream from silv3ry where we did 1 normal run, then in the other 2 runs we reduced our stats to certain numbers, and those numbers made alot of difference in the dps chart. In the normal run i has 10k more CA and about 30k more power than the second dps who was also a cw, i outdpsed them by 50m. In the last 2 runs i dropped power to 90k cos it was a testrun just to prove that a well balanced 20k can do LMM without too much problem, i also dropped my Ca to 74k. On the other hand, the second cw (dontezz) had 95k power and 94k ca, which was 5k power and 20k More Ca than me. In these 2 runs he outdpses, first by 10m and second by 20m (died on last boss here).
What did you pick from that? its not only the class but stats matter and ofc the right player too, from being outdpsed by 50m to outdpsing me by 10-20m thats 70m difference.
Also i saw @jufes commented here, he's a cw too, with considerably lower stats than mine, about 40k+ power difference, dint check his ca, but pretty sure i had more, i outdpsed him by 50m and thats including the fact he died on arcturia. If you have been reading till now, you'll understand why i say "the same class performs differently in different hands".
The other point is as to what @schietindebux mentioned, pretty much saying everything im repeating, using the envenomed, doohickey helps, envonemed did 6% and doohickey did another 6% from. which is a total of 12% from 120m. It's easy to complain about a class being broken, but are you sure you are running the same stuff as those players? are you taking advantage of whatever your class has to offer over others?
I highly recommend any dps testings you do should be done in LMM and the comparison should be between stats, companions, artifacts, boons, etc and not least important, these tests should be on bosses, taking into consideration factors like, who had more aggro, who was stunned more, who did, who was using potions, food, etc. You can clearly see that there are alot of factors to consider.
Lastly @pariswinters#7118 i do alot of testing and testing and testing, i only main a cw but i run with every class in the game, from what i've seen, Tr is not behind Cw, infact the top 2 dpses right now are both Tr and Cw, if you doubt, invite Radmin and Aerin Sol to a group, run LMM with them, why them? they are the 2 players running Tr and Cw respectively with similar stats. The third place definitely has to be for Sw, they are only slightly below us btw, i only outdps punk because i use stuff like envenomed, doohickey, etc and have more stats than him and he's a SW. On the otherhand, i've only seen 2 good Hrs in this mod, the only one i can remember being Fenrick, but they'd only be ranked as 4th, unless i've been running with a bunch of bad rangers, i'd say they clearly need a boost, then there's the barbarian who's slightly above fighter and ofc fighter is on the bottom of the list as things stand. And again i highly recommend not to do tests anywhere u can kill stuff superfast, those are not tests, anyone who hits first and crits more will always win here.
If i did not mention the Dcs, its because i haven't played a dc in this mod, nor have i ran with any as a dps in LMM, but i do have a lvl 70 i stopped playing just cos i cant bother playing multiples in mod16, but yh seeing how they have super low cds, i can only say that the issue here is with the class itself, lack of dps is most likely due to high divinity requirements and not being able to keep up divinity for all the encounters. I did ask a question regarding this thou. ¿would the dcs be happy to have relatively longer cds, but lower divinity requirements?
What i actually find funny about this is people complaining "only" about the dps aspect of balance, above the cw and tr, there's clearly the OP, they are viable as tank, heals and if built for, as dps. So you currently take 5 OPs into any dungeon and clear it without an issue. But should they be nerfed? nope, in the other post i suggested all tanks to be able to take damage for the group while all healers should be able to heal+shield like the OP.
What would these changes do? instead of me running with 2 OPs like i currently do, or ppl only looking for tr/cw/sw, i'd only need to go "LFM LMM Dps/tank/heals". thats where we should be trying to reach, not asking for nerfs.
Again this is my opinion, asking for nerfs is easy, but giving solutions to the desired "balanced" is what you should aim for. nerfs only cause an infinite circle of complains, where 1 class gets nerfed, they underperform and no longer viable, which leads to complains resulting in more nerfs and this circle just goes on and on and on forever without ever reaching a balanced point.
Next time it'd be much more better something like " hey cryptic my class is underperforming compared to other classes and this is what i believe should be improved for us to be on the same level as those classes". No hate, no nerfs, just buffs. if classes end up being overpowered compared to the environment, you atleast have the classes balanced, now all you'd need to worry about is making the environment more challenging for them.