That is definiteIy something that needs to be Iooked into, I've never seen my at wiIIs deaIing that amount of dmg. My best criticaI was from daiIy ICE KNIFE and was around 700k
nice, my best crit from a daily was about the same ~800k maybe chilling cloud is bugged? i dont like wizard...it was my 1st character and i sucked at it (on ps4) so i don't play mine much but from doing many runs this module i definately feel like class balance is not right
See? now, we are understanding each other I understand if there are some situations sync with other items/ buffs that make wizard overperform and that shouId be addressed. But, for this thread, caIIing for nerfs isn't the soIution, some cIasses need to have their mechanics rechecked and that incIudes cIeric, my main is a cIeric and i miss pIaying with him, i just cannot stand divinity.
In the next preview patch, scaIings seem to be "improved", that shouId make cIasses better, they didn't touch wizards, maybe they think they are in a good spot; didnt touch criticaI chances, which are the source of wizard's dps, so everyones damage wiII see a difference for better we hope.
I do not know how it works, but I constantly see an explosion of cold damage in the logs of wizards. Cloud 2-5 mio, Icy Rays 1-3 mio, Conduit of Ice 1 mio every hit.
I do not know how it works, but I constantly see an explosion of cold damage in the logs of wizards. Cloud 2-5 mio, Icy Rays 1-3 mio, Conduit of Ice 1 mio every hit.
So weird, those are coId based, maybe its the feat "rimefire weaving" fire damage increases dmg of next coId power by 10% and viceversa, that is overperforming with a buff or an item?
In the next preview patch, scaIings seem to be "improved", that shouId make cIasses better, they didn't touch wizards, maybe they think they are in a good spot; didnt touch criticaI chances, which are the source of wizard's dps, so everyones damage wiII see a difference for better we hope.
thats some high level pandering there. we all have crit chance and all depend on crits for max dmg.
Barbs; rogues, arbiters, rangers have between 200-2000 magnitud damage and daiIies beyond 1500, rogues, barbs and rangers, speciaIIy rangers with 5-10 CD on them, and some of the best, no more than 15CD WhiIe cIeric and wizards with 15-20 CD, and our best encounter is 475 dmg If we remove criticaI from the game, which cIass do u think wiII top? a wizard doing 475 magnitude? or a rogue deaIing 700; ranger with 500 mg every 3-5 secs, or a barb with 600, or an arbiter with 1000 ?
but sometimes i will try to run a dungeon...but i can't ever finish them.....class balance for this module makes me so angry i just abandon the instance.
Uh, completing dungeons in normal groups is no problem at all. Are you trying to solo it? It was one of the objectives of mod 16 to bring things back to 'normal'.. which means no soloing of content that is intended for groups.
Yes, you have been heavily nerfed in power wrt. dungeons, so have we all. And that is a good thing, this is not a solo game.
wizards and rangers deal a disproportionate amount of damage compared to any other dps class. it makes me so mad to see some wizard or ranger with lower IL and crappier gear dealing 2-3-4 times my dps....this happens nearly anytime i get in a group with them.....if theres not a wizard or ranger in the team...i'm always top dps, by a pretty good amount too. classes are not balanced at all. fighter and barbarian dps are consistently the lowest on the charts, while rangers and wizards are always on top i'm really starting to hate this game
I understand from this that you play a Barbarian. Let me remind you that GWF were allowed to rule alone on the dps top for at least the last 2-3 years. We heard no complaints from you then...
But on a more serious note: The dps-paths for tanks(Fighters and Barbarians) get to keep a good portion of their tank defenses even when in dps mode. That actually is quite valuable.
So to compensate and make total class value balanced, I do not find it unreasonable that they are a bit below the pure dps classes in dps. If the tank dps paths were to match the pure dps classes, the tank classes would be seriously overpowered.
The Barbarians probably are the class that got the biggest change in class role/class concept with mod 16 - maybe matched by the healers that had to start healing
Someone remarked the other day that there are few Barbarians playing tank.. and that probably is because of the pure-dps mindset of those that chose Barabarian as their class pre-mod 16. And this change might not sit well with them.
> @foxxycleopatra said: > its funny all you wizards jump in with all this "we're endgame players and we played on preview so we had time to build right" > i was on preview day 1, and I've built my cleric accordingly, classes are not balanced. > > Arbiters are not pure dps cIasses and i own a cIeric too, i think the judgement mechanic is a faiI, aIso Iike wizards, they have Iong cd, so i give u that, but dont caII for nerfs if what ur cIass needs is a adjustment and a boost to CD and that annoying mechanic aIong divinity. > > > > Arbiters are supposed to be equally competitive with other DPS paths. > > Maybe if they finally remove Bastion of Health from Arbiter like they should have done in the beginning, players will stop making so many references to "pure" DPS vs. not. > > I even see players saying that Wizard shouldn't deal as much damage as other DPS because they aren't "pure". I think a lot of people missed the memo that Wizards haven't been desirable for their control functions for years. > > > I read somewhere that they indeed shouId be equaIIy matched to other dps cIasses, but there are 3 cIasses that are pure dps, i beIieve they shound stand over not pure ones Now, as I mentioned before, if we put aII cIasses in a run with not criticaI chance at aII, u wiII see wizard at the Iast tier You want us nerfed? ok, then ask to devs to adjust "criticaI based feat and passives for Iower vaIues" and in compensation, give us most of our encounters between 8-12 secs CD and with 600-700 magnitudes each, just Iike happen with the rest of dps cIasses, except warIocks, IoI.
Each path should be considered on its own merits. If we start to say that Arbiter deserves to be less effective than Rogue, Wizard, or Ranger paths because its base class also has a healing path, why would anyone want to invest in it? It’s tantamount to saying that the aforementioned three classes are the only ones you should play if you’re serious about doing well as DPS.
I’m not making suggestions for nerfing Wizard at the moment; that’s a conversation you’re having with other posters.
On a side note, my problem with Bastion being granted to Arbiter is that players point to junk like that and declare that it must not be a real DPS class.
@asterdahl Please take Bastion away from Arbiter; it doesn’t belong in a DPS kit. Maybe replace it with a damaging AoE non-spender that isn’t Sunburst...?
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
> @pariswinters#7118 said: > Anyway, just Iet devs do what they beIieve they shouId with baIancing. It's hard to pIease everyone, IoI. > > no. i'm gonna speak up, something needs to change > i've spent over $2000 on my cleric and i cannot perform as well as other classes, not to mention she has been BIS for years and has every boon
So this is all the data you are using to call for nerfs. "I spent 2000$ and I dont top paingiver". And that you couldnt play a CW propely. I bet you played GWF for years.
For me you could be one of these smashing keyboard guys that doesnt know what is doing but until mod 15 copies a build, put lots of $$$ and be top dps.
Not enough. Wait for a good guide on your class. But still there are people that even with all the info is bad at playing.
Short comment from my side. I never saw any of those 2mio At-Will procs till now. CW deals heavy amounts with rimefire smolder 35%, that's all I know. But no call for any nerf from my side, maybe fixes yes. And all classes with a dps tree should be competitive imo. I think Codg is no good place to match dps anyway. You need at least a bossfight lasting 2min+ I think.
but sometimes i will try to run a dungeon...but i can't ever finish them.....class balance for this module makes me so angry i just abandon the instance.
Uh, completing dungeons in normal groups is no problem at all. Are you trying to solo it? It was one of the objectives of mod 16 to bring things back to 'normal'.. which means no soloing of content that is intended for groups.
Yes, you have been heavily nerfed in power wrt. dungeons, so have we all. And that is a good thing, this is not a solo game.
wizards and rangers deal a disproportionate amount of damage compared to any other dps class. it makes me so mad to see some wizard or ranger with lower IL and crappier gear dealing 2-3-4 times my dps....this happens nearly anytime i get in a group with them.....if theres not a wizard or ranger in the team...i'm always top dps, by a pretty good amount too. classes are not balanced at all. fighter and barbarian dps are consistently the lowest on the charts, while rangers and wizards are always on top i'm really starting to hate this game
I understand from this that you play a Barbarian. Let me remind you that GWF were allowed to rule alone on the dps top for at least the last 2-3 years. We heard no complaints from you then...
But on a more serious note: The dps-paths for tanks(Fighters and Barbarians) get to keep a good portion of their tank defenses even when in dps mode. That actually is quite valuable.
So to compensate and make total class value balanced, I do not find it unreasonable that they are a bit below the pure dps classes in dps. If the tank dps paths were to match the pure dps classes, the tank classes would be seriously overpowered.
The Barbarians probably are the class that got the biggest change in class role/class concept with mod 16 - maybe matched by the healers that had to start healing
Someone remarked the other day that there are few Barbarians playing tank.. and that probably is because of the pure-dps mindset of those that chose Barabarian as their class pre-mod 16. And this change might not sit well with them.
I totally agreed with the reaction of mentinmindmaker on a everlasting stream of complains we had on forum prior mod 16. Dev's finally got rid of the endless (downwards) spiral of complains, fixes, adjustments and followed up with even more complains. Be aware that the classbalances prior mod16 was out of balance and the Dev's brought it back to where it should be…
Wizards and Rangers are true DPS classes to start with. Other classes have a main path (depending on their setup) and a support (in my case as OP, my build is totally a pure tank related and have a heal build as support) Main path of a Cleric was prior mod16 an healer, but swapped to buffer/debuffer due the fact that players decided that they didn't need a healer anymore due that insane LS (glad they got rid of it) Now the main role of a Cleric is brought back to healer and instead of buffer/debuffer they got a DPS support role.
Hence, I started this game as a GF tank, and was a bloody good one till players decided that they didnt needed a tank in their groups caused by their DPS output combined with that (in my eyes) hated LS. It even affecting their playstyle because they where able to just keep standing in an red spot a boss placed and live trough it... It caused me to leave the game for a year and a half... I returned in game and created a OP for the sole reason to find my fun back in game (yes, even a tank can have fun to be able to control the mobs so squishies don't get pounded)… Personally I get a thrill by pulling big clusters of mobs and keep them controlled… This is my fun But prior mod16 it became for me quickly boring for the simple fact I couldn't die in battle (caused by the same class balances).. I even went to kitchen to make myself a cup of coffee while Orcus (TonG) was pounding my dwarven head because i became nothing more than a buffer…
Dev's brought the importance of Healers and Tanks back to the game, and i can finally say that I am able again to die in Battle... I sincerely hope that Dev's doesn't bite the bait again about DPS output, which is totally BS. So, cut the HAMSTER and deal with the new situation and adopt to it (as we all had to do when Mod16 came alive)
ps. Tank rule #101. You pull mobs, you deal with it .
What about gwf he is also dps but wizard or ranger can make 2~3x more dmg with lower power. Gwf with 160k power deal less dmg then others dps with 100k power, dont mention he is full contact dps and got lower hp then wizard or ranger
I understand from this that you play a Barbarian. Let me remind you that GWF were allowed to rule alone on the dps top for at least the last 2-3 years. We heard no complaints from you then...
But on a more serious note: The dps-paths for tanks(Fighters and Barbarians) get to keep a good portion of their tank defenses even when in dps mode. That actually is quite valuable.
So to compensate and make total class value balanced, I do not find it unreasonable that they are a bit below the pure dps classes in dps. If the tank dps paths were to match the pure dps classes, the tank classes would be seriously overpowered.
The Barbarians probably are the class that got the biggest change in class role/class concept with mod 16 - maybe matched by the healers that had to start healing
Someone remarked the other day that there are few Barbarians playing tank.. and that probably is because of the pure-dps mindset of those that chose Barabarian as their class pre-mod 16. And this change might not sit well with them.
Nice speech indeed...There's philosophy, global point of view, everything. But you miss the big point: NO ONE WILL GROUP YOU FOR LOMM AS A BLADEMASTER BARBARIAN BECAUSE YOU WILL BE BY FAR THE WORST DPS. This is a sad truth, and the only thing the game developers should take into account. Cheers.
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
What about gwf he is also dps but wizard or ranger can make 2~3x more dmg with lower power. Gwf with 160k power deal less dmg then others dps with 100k power, dont mention he is full contact dps and got lower hp then wizard or ranger
From what I see, it just depends on the player skills... Hr, GWF, SW, CW can all be top dps depending on crit luck.
but sometimes i will try to run a dungeon...but i can't ever finish them.....class balance for this module makes me so angry i just abandon the instance.
Uh, completing dungeons in normal groups is no problem at all. Are you trying to solo it? It was one of the objectives of mod 16 to bring things back to 'normal'.. which means no soloing of content that is intended for groups.
Yes, you have been heavily nerfed in power wrt. dungeons, so have we all. And that is a good thing, this is not a solo game.
wizards and rangers deal a disproportionate amount of damage compared to any other dps class. it makes me so mad to see some wizard or ranger with lower IL and crappier gear dealing 2-3-4 times my dps....this happens nearly anytime i get in a group with them.....if theres not a wizard or ranger in the team...i'm always top dps, by a pretty good amount too. classes are not balanced at all. fighter and barbarian dps are consistently the lowest on the charts, while rangers and wizards are always on top i'm really starting to hate this game
I understand from this that you play a Barbarian. Let me remind you that GWF were allowed to rule alone on the dps top for at least the last 2-3 years. We heard no complaints from you then...
But on a more serious note: The dps-paths for tanks(Fighters and Barbarians) get to keep a good portion of their tank defenses even when in dps mode. That actually is quite valuable.
So to compensate and make total class value balanced, I do not find it unreasonable that they are a bit below the pure dps classes in dps. If the tank dps paths were to match the pure dps classes, the tank classes would be seriously overpowered.
The Barbarians probably are the class that got the biggest change in class role/class concept with mod 16 - maybe matched by the healers that had to start healing
Someone remarked the other day that there are few Barbarians playing tank.. and that probably is because of the pure-dps mindset of those that chose Barabarian as their class pre-mod 16. And this change might not sit well with them.
I totally agreed with the reaction of mentinmindmaker on a everlasting stream of complains we had on forum prior mod 16. Dev's finally got rid of the endless (downwards) spiral of complains, fixes, adjustments and followed up with even more complains. Be aware that the classbalances prior mod16 was out of balance and the Dev's brought it back to where it should be… Try ESO..
We have a compareable situation as before, bossfights last a bit longer, classbalance is similar as mod 15, only other classes are a bit on top. GWF did not rule for the last mods imo, Hunter, TR for short periods, GF were doing good as well.
Wizards and Rangers are true DPS classes to start with. Now the main role of a Cleric is brought back to healer and instead of buffer/debuffer they got a DPS support role.
Sry to nitpick a bit I don´t main a DC but I run one with moderate gear, competetive in mod 15, needs to be build up again. Where did you find any comment about Arbiter is supposed to be a support/dps role in mod 16 and what kind of support do you expect that class to come up with ? Popping a Bastion, Hollowed ground here and there or cc mobs by spamming a knockback encounter maybe? All that an Arbiter can support with are heals and some low mitigation tools, noone would ask for in a run, except switching to Devout-loadout and support by heals and some mitigation.
TR : One Smoke bomb is more support in terms of dps than a DC can come up with, spending aoe-CA and by that near doubleing a crit from damagefactor about 3 to factor 5 for the hole party, dazing mobs on top.
Ranger: ...where to start? You say pure dps, right? Hunter path: CC: Root, Slow, Daze, interrupt Debuff: 5% to mob At Will: Hunters Teamwork (just read it-HP, stamina , AP buff) Aspect of the pack: up to +5000 CA bonus for party members Slasher Expertise: 5% damagebuff to the party Warden: CC: Roots, Slow, Daze, interrupt, Knockback Split the Sky: passive dps buff for the group Boar Hide: Thik Skin spends 5 stacks = a 20000 defense buff... not that much, esp runnning 70 dungeon? Fox Cunnings: Party wide dodge for 8 seconds Oak skin: heals allies for 4,5%of their max hitpoints and increase incoming healing for 9 seconds
Wizard: Thaumaturg CC: Stun, Root, Hold, Daze 2.5 as effective as other classes Freeze, Knockdown, Push not to forget Controled momentum 2% party dps buff
Blademaster: cc abilities Battle fury: party dps buff
So from all those classes Hunter has by far the best support options: Heal, cc, 5% debuff, 5k CA-buff, 5% dps-buff, HP, AP, Stamina-buff, Defensebuff 20k !, Dodgeability, Crowd Control. About all others you cn discuss, 2% dps-partybuff is maybe the best from all those, in case you pretend having CA bonus all time, if not TR is the better one , using Smokebomb and applying CA for all member.
N°1 in Dps/support in NWO mod 16 ? Hunter followed by TR/Wizard maybe at distance..
So... when a Hunter is a pure dps-class, are those other path liek Blademaster Arbiter, Hellbringer just dps/support classes, where devs forgot to give them any kind of support feature but gave them towards the Hunter accidentally?
And how do you define "true DPS" ? So GF, GWF, Warlock, DC are not ment to be "True DPS" and by that have no arguments for being competetive in mod 16? In other words you want classes like GF, GWF, OP to build for a tank and stay out of "dps segment" and stop asking for being competetive, same as warlock and DC should queue as a healer, even so devs forgot to make Soulweaver competetive in mod 16 ? Sry for nitpicking, I think the discussion about "true-dps" or "untrue-dps" is stupid at best.
I know, there are some pretty good Wizards and Ranger and TR in game same as OP, GF, DC Warlocks. But if I may simply ask those ones, claiming to be top Arbiter, Blademaster or Hellbirnger what they experience in mod 16 actually matching those top CW's and Hunter and TR in Lomm? o/ @tassedethe13 , I think your Ranger is pretty much endgear stuffed ? How many endgeared Hellbringer, Arbiter, Blademaster did you match with actually, talking about optimized % gear, 160k+power etc., ignoring broken artifacts and pocketpets ?
I really can´t tell how things look like exactly and I never met a top performig Blademaster in mod 16, 1-2 good ones by sure.. many bad ones tbh.. My estimation is about yours with overall advantage for CW in the end, and I also don´t think Hunter is top focus dps tbh. (only aoe), I favour TR/CW for focus dps tbh. I also did not match with one Arbiter so far, same as never met one top Hellbringer. Only one, who dealt huge ammounts with Chartilfax Aura + extra daily but even though he lost significant vs a good TR, that had none of those tools active.. but CODG is the worst dungeon to match imo.
Now the main role of a Cleric is brought back to healer and instead of buffer/debuffer they got a DPS support role.
I'm not at all sorry to nitpick this: Please stop right there.
Arbiter is not a supporting DPS.@asterdahl has stated outright that he designed the path to be competitive with DPS paths belonging to other classes.
The fact that we have more than one player in the same thread repeating this incorrect information brings me back to my earlier point that Arbiter needs continued work to ensure not only that its performance is on par but also that the messaging around the path is clear to players.
> its funny all you wizards jump in with all this "we're endgame players and we played on preview so we had time to build right"
> i was on preview day 1, and I've built my cleric accordingly, classes are not balanced.
>
> Arbiters are not pure dps cIasses and i own a cIeric too, i think the judgement mechanic is a faiI, aIso Iike wizards, they have Iong cd, so i give u that, but dont caII for nerfs if what ur cIass needs is a adjustment and a boost to CD and that annoying mechanic aIong divinity.
>
>
>
> Arbiters are supposed to be equally competitive with other DPS paths.
>
> Maybe if they finally remove Bastion of Health from Arbiter like they should have done in the beginning, players will stop making so many references to "pure" DPS vs. not.
>
> I even see players saying that Wizard shouldn't deal as much damage as other DPS because they aren't "pure". I think a lot of people missed the memo that Wizards haven't been desirable for their control functions for years.
>
>
> I read somewhere that they indeed shouId be equaIIy matched to other dps cIasses, but there are 3 cIasses that are pure dps, i beIieve they shound stand over not pure ones Now, as I mentioned before, if we put aII cIasses in a run with not criticaI chance at aII, u wiII see wizard at the Iast tier You want us nerfed? ok, then ask to devs to adjust "criticaI based feat and passives for Iower vaIues" and in compensation, give us most of our encounters between 8-12 secs CD and with 600-700 magnitudes each, just Iike happen with the rest of dps cIasses, except warIocks, IoI.
Each path should be considered on its own merits. If we start to say that Arbiter deserves to be less effective than Rogue, Wizard, or Ranger paths because its base class also has a healing path, why would anyone want to invest in it? It’s tantamount to saying that the aforementioned three classes are the only ones you should play if you’re serious about doing well as DPS.
I’m not making suggestions for nerfing Wizard at the moment; that’s a conversation you’re having with other posters.
On a side note, my problem with Bastion being granted to Arbiter is that players point to junk like that and declare that it must not be a real DPS class.
@asterdahl Please take Bastion away from Arbiter; it doesn’t belong in a DPS kit. Maybe replace it with a damaging AoE non-spender that isn’t Sunburst...?
My bad, that "ask for nerfs" sIipped in that note that wasn't for you.
What about gwf he is also dps but wizard or ranger can make 2~3x more dmg with lower power. Gwf with 160k power deal less dmg then others dps with 100k power, dont mention he is full contact dps and got lower hp then wizard or ranger
Barbarians not pIaying properIy? I have been outdps'ed by barbarians, maybe 2 or 3
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
The only viable support Arbiter gives, is a 5% magic damage buff on one target (BtS) and a 10% enemy damage debuff (Geas). Often times only one will be used, I prefer BtS myself. The rest of our kit is just DPS, ignoring the awful divinity drain that is Bastion. I personally feel that I am competitive against all the other dps classes. The mimic phase for Arcturia is very easy for us. The only time I get left behind on the charts in LoMM is when someone has the ToO artifact and the pocket pet.
Comments
I understand if there are some situations sync with other items/ buffs that make wizard overperform and that shouId be addressed. But, for this thread, caIIing for nerfs isn't the soIution, some cIasses need to have their mechanics rechecked and that incIudes cIeric, my main is a cIeric and i miss pIaying with him, i just cannot stand divinity.
Cloud 2-5 mio, Icy Rays 1-3 mio, Conduit of Ice 1 mio every hit.
Yes, you have been heavily nerfed in power wrt. dungeons, so have we all. And that is a good thing, this is not a solo game. I understand from this that you play a Barbarian. Let me remind you that GWF were allowed to rule alone on the dps top for at least the last 2-3 years. We heard no complaints from you then...
But on a more serious note:
The dps-paths for tanks(Fighters and Barbarians) get to keep a good portion of their tank defenses even when in dps mode.
That actually is quite valuable.
So to compensate and make total class value balanced, I do not find it unreasonable that they are a bit below the pure dps classes in dps. If the tank dps paths were to match the pure dps classes, the tank classes would be seriously overpowered.
The Barbarians probably are the class that got the biggest change in class role/class concept with mod 16 - maybe matched by the healers that had to start healing
Someone remarked the other day that there are few Barbarians playing tank.. and that probably is because of the pure-dps mindset of those that chose Barabarian as their class pre-mod 16. And this change might not sit well with them.
> its funny all you wizards jump in with all this "we're endgame players and we played on preview so we had time to build right"
> i was on preview day 1, and I've built my cleric accordingly, classes are not balanced.
>
> Arbiters are not pure dps cIasses and i own a cIeric too, i think the judgement mechanic is a faiI, aIso Iike wizards, they have Iong cd, so i give u that, but dont caII for nerfs if what ur cIass needs is a adjustment and a boost to CD and that annoying mechanic aIong divinity.
>
>
>
> Arbiters are supposed to be equally competitive with other DPS paths.
>
> Maybe if they finally remove Bastion of Health from Arbiter like they should have done in the beginning, players will stop making so many references to "pure" DPS vs. not.
>
> I even see players saying that Wizard shouldn't deal as much damage as other DPS because they aren't "pure". I think a lot of people missed the memo that Wizards haven't been desirable for their control functions for years.
>
>
> I read somewhere that they indeed shouId be equaIIy matched to other dps cIasses, but there are 3 cIasses that are pure dps, i beIieve they shound stand over not pure ones Now, as I mentioned before, if we put aII cIasses in a run with not criticaI chance at aII, u wiII see wizard at the Iast tier You want us nerfed? ok, then ask to devs to adjust "criticaI based feat and passives for Iower vaIues" and in compensation, give us most of our encounters between 8-12 secs CD and with 600-700 magnitudes each, just Iike happen with the rest of dps cIasses, except warIocks, IoI.
Each path should be considered on its own merits. If we start to say that Arbiter deserves to be less effective than Rogue, Wizard, or Ranger paths because its base class also has a healing path, why would anyone want to invest in it? It’s tantamount to saying that the aforementioned three classes are the only ones you should play if you’re serious about doing well as DPS.
I’m not making suggestions for nerfing Wizard at the moment; that’s a conversation you’re having with other posters.
On a side note, my problem with Bastion being granted to Arbiter is that players point to junk like that and declare that it must not be a real DPS class.
@asterdahl Please take Bastion away from Arbiter; it doesn’t belong in a DPS kit. Maybe replace it with a damaging AoE non-spender that isn’t Sunburst...?
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
> Anyway, just Iet devs do what they beIieve they shouId with baIancing. It's hard to pIease everyone, IoI.
>
> no. i'm gonna speak up, something needs to change
> i've spent over $2000 on my cleric and i cannot perform as well as other classes, not to mention she has been BIS for years and has every boon
So this is all the data you are using to call for nerfs. "I spent 2000$ and I dont top paingiver". And that you couldnt play a CW propely. I bet you played GWF for years.
For me you could be one of these smashing keyboard guys that doesnt know what is doing but until mod 15 copies a build, put lots of $$$ and be top dps.
Not enough. Wait for a good guide on your class. But still there are people that even with all the info is bad at playing.
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I think Codg is no good place to match dps anyway. You need at least a bossfight lasting 2min+ I think.
Dev's finally got rid of the endless (downwards) spiral of complains, fixes, adjustments and followed up with even more complains.
Be aware that the classbalances prior mod16 was out of balance and the Dev's brought it back to where it should be…
Wizards and Rangers are true DPS classes to start with.
Other classes have a main path (depending on their setup) and a support (in my case as OP, my build is totally a pure tank related and have a heal build as support)
Main path of a Cleric was prior mod16 an healer, but swapped to buffer/debuffer due the fact that players decided that they didn't need a healer anymore due that insane LS (glad they got rid of it)
Now the main role of a Cleric is brought back to healer and instead of buffer/debuffer they got a DPS support role.
Hence, I started this game as a GF tank, and was a bloody good one till players decided that they didnt needed a tank in their groups caused by their DPS output combined with that (in my eyes) hated LS. It even affecting their playstyle because they where able to just keep standing in an red spot a boss placed and live trough it... It caused me to leave the game for a year and a half...
I returned in game and created a OP for the sole reason to find my fun back in game (yes, even a tank can have fun to be able to control the mobs so squishies don't get pounded)… Personally I get a thrill by pulling big clusters of mobs and keep them controlled… This is my fun
But prior mod16 it became for me quickly boring for the simple fact I couldn't die in battle (caused by the same class balances).. I even went to kitchen to make myself a cup of coffee while Orcus (TonG) was pounding my dwarven head because i became nothing more than a buffer…
Dev's brought the importance of Healers and Tanks back to the game, and i can finally say that I am able again to die in Battle...
I sincerely hope that Dev's doesn't bite the bait again about DPS output, which is totally BS.
So, cut the HAMSTER and deal with the new situation and adopt to it (as we all had to do when Mod16 came alive)
ps. Tank rule #101.
You pull mobs, you deal with it
Try ESO..
But on a more serious note:
The dps-paths for tanks(Fighters and Barbarians) get to keep a good portion of their tank defenses even when in dps mode.
That actually is quite valuable.
So to compensate and make total class value balanced, I do not find it unreasonable that they are a bit below the pure dps classes in dps. If the tank dps paths were to match the pure dps classes, the tank classes would be seriously overpowered.
The Barbarians probably are the class that got the biggest change in class role/class concept with mod 16 - maybe matched by the healers that had to start healing
Someone remarked the other day that there are few Barbarians playing tank.. and that probably is because of the pure-dps mindset of those that chose Barabarian as their class pre-mod 16. And this change might not sit well with them.
Nice speech indeed...There's philosophy, global point of view, everything.
But you miss the big point:
NO ONE WILL GROUP YOU FOR LOMM AS A BLADEMASTER BARBARIAN BECAUSE YOU WILL BE BY FAR THE WORST DPS.
This is a sad truth, and the only thing the game developers should take into account. Cheers.
GWF did not rule for the last mods imo, Hunter, TR for short periods, GF were doing good as well. Sry to nitpick a bit
I don´t main a DC but I run one with moderate gear, competetive in mod 15, needs to be build up again.
Where did you find any comment about Arbiter is supposed to be a support/dps role in mod 16 and what kind of support do you expect that class to come up with ? Popping a Bastion, Hollowed ground here and there or cc mobs by spamming a knockback encounter maybe? All that an Arbiter can support with are heals and some low mitigation tools, noone would ask for in a run, except switching to Devout-loadout and support by heals and some mitigation.
TR : One Smoke bomb is more support in terms of dps than a DC can come up with, spending aoe-CA and by that near doubleing a crit from damagefactor about 3 to factor 5 for the hole party, dazing mobs on top.
Ranger:
...where to start? You say pure dps, right?
Hunter path:
CC: Root, Slow, Daze, interrupt
Debuff: 5% to mob
At Will: Hunters Teamwork (just read it-HP, stamina , AP buff)
Aspect of the pack: up to +5000 CA bonus for party members
Slasher Expertise: 5% damagebuff to the party
Warden:
CC: Roots, Slow, Daze, interrupt, Knockback
Split the Sky: passive dps buff for the group
Boar Hide: Thik Skin spends 5 stacks = a 20000 defense buff... not that much, esp runnning 70 dungeon?
Fox Cunnings: Party wide dodge for 8 seconds
Oak skin: heals allies for 4,5%of their max hitpoints and increase incoming healing for 9 seconds
Wizard:
Thaumaturg
CC: Stun, Root, Hold, Daze 2.5 as effective as other classes
Freeze, Knockdown, Push not to forget
Controled momentum 2% party dps buff
Warlock:
Hellbinger
cc: Hold, Knockdown, Slow,
At Will: HoB damage debuff 4%
Blademaster: cc abilities
Battle fury: party dps buff
So from all those classes Hunter has by far the best support options: Heal, cc, 5% debuff, 5k CA-buff, 5% dps-buff, HP, AP, Stamina-buff, Defensebuff 20k !, Dodgeability, Crowd Control.
About all others you cn discuss, 2% dps-partybuff is maybe the best from all those, in case you pretend having CA bonus all time, if not TR is the better one , using Smokebomb and applying CA for all member.
N°1 in Dps/support in NWO mod 16 ? Hunter followed by TR/Wizard maybe at distance..
So... when a Hunter is a pure dps-class, are those other path liek Blademaster Arbiter, Hellbringer just dps/support classes, where devs forgot to give them any kind of support feature but gave them towards the Hunter accidentally?
And how do you define "true DPS" ?
So GF, GWF, Warlock, DC are not ment to be "True DPS" and by that have no arguments for being competetive in mod 16?
In other words you want classes like GF, GWF, OP to build for a tank and stay out of "dps segment" and stop asking for being competetive, same as warlock and DC should queue as a healer, even so devs forgot to make Soulweaver competetive in mod 16 ?
Sry for nitpicking, I think the discussion about "true-dps" or "untrue-dps" is stupid at best.
But if I may simply ask those ones, claiming to be top Arbiter, Blademaster or Hellbirnger what they experience in mod 16 actually matching those top CW's and Hunter and TR in Lomm?
o/ @tassedethe13 , I think your Ranger is pretty much endgear stuffed ? How many endgeared Hellbringer, Arbiter, Blademaster did you match with actually, talking about optimized % gear, 160k+power etc., ignoring broken artifacts and pocketpets ?
I really can´t tell how things look like exactly and I never met a top performig Blademaster in mod 16, 1-2 good ones by sure.. many bad ones tbh..
My estimation is about yours with overall advantage for CW in the end, and I also don´t think Hunter is top focus dps tbh. (only aoe), I favour TR/CW for focus dps tbh.
I also did not match with one Arbiter so far, same as never met one top Hellbringer. Only one, who dealt huge ammounts with Chartilfax Aura + extra daily but even though he lost significant vs a good TR, that had none of those tools active.. but CODG is the worst dungeon to match imo.
Arbiter is not a supporting DPS. @asterdahl has stated outright that he designed the path to be competitive with DPS paths belonging to other classes.
The fact that we have more than one player in the same thread repeating this incorrect information brings me back to my earlier point that Arbiter needs continued work to ensure not only that its performance is on par but also that the messaging around the path is clear to players.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH