I've tried a few of my classes and they are just not fun anymore. The game play doesn't feel satisfying or rewarding anymore. Even though the content drop is good, combat is a total mess. Unfortunately it looks like I'm moving back to ESO again! Although it has its own issues...
Today I take my 14k( 11k in mod15) toon for a spin in prophecy of madness. I played her as a stormwarden archer as usual and its are terrible. Electric shot hit like 600+ per hit
To me that says your character is not built right. What are your offensive stats? Have you Maxed out ArPen? If not, your DPS gets reduced massively. What about your Accuracy, Crit and CA? Which weapon enchant are you using - I mean some build choices that were good before are just not that great any more.
Adapt or die.
That toon just hit 70 a month ago. Got full primal assault gear with vistani bow and feytough 8. If I cant have a normal gameplay with this toon, u can imagine how new and casual player are gonna be like. Unable to make a dent on a mob are just too much even for an unoptimized new toon that fit in the dungeon requirement. The stat scaling are just too off for people to play normally.
Adapt? yeah rite.. tell that to those people that has lost hope in the development team. Die? lol.. Its more like a goodbye. Mod16 started off with a good intention but those monotonous changes just kills it.
Today I take my 14k( 11k in mod15) toon for a spin in prophecy of madness. I played her as a stormwarden archer as usual and its are terrible. Electric shot hit like 600+ per hit
To me that says your character is not built right. What are your offensive stats? Have you Maxed out ArPen? If not, your DPS gets reduced massively. What about your Accuracy, Crit and CA? Which weapon enchant are you using - I mean some build choices that were good before are just not that great any more.
Adapt or die.
That "adapt or die" philosophy cuts both ways. Sure, the players are now forced to relearn everything about the game - but the company
Mod 16 (ie the 71-80 content) is pretty good. There are bugs in it but it feels ok for the most part except the problem with finding mobs as is normal with new mods. However any content that scales you is bad. It doesn't matter if you are lvl 30 being scaled to 20. The lvl 20 mobs hit harder in some cases then the lvl 30 mobs. If you just stay in the lvl 80 content then you will have no worries and lets face it most of the end game players don't need to leave it. It's the rest of us and the up and coming that are going to have the problems.
I really want to buy into the hype, I really do, but to use your exact example:
Neverdeath Cemetary heroic dragon, dead in three seconds. I literally got one shot on it before it was over. It would seem that this myth of "scaling is going to kill the newbies is just that, a myth. Before the update, the dragon took 2-3 minutes to kill, on the outside.
Give a couple of RIQs a spin and talk to me about a 'scaling myth'.
Three days ago low end Epic dungeons like Malabog, Kessel and Valindra were cakewalks. Now they are too much for most PUGs. That's not a myth.
The most awesome part was deleting all my characters, all leg mounts/comp... and move on to a game with developers who actually care about their playerbase.. that was the most awesome part of mod 16
All any one does now-a-days is hate on every new game or big update in any game. Mod16 is freakin awesome. Ill admit the warlock needs a little buff, but the rest is simply great. Every thing feels better.
Moderator edited title to be less aggressive.
Yes the game is more primitive and simple now, no more build diversity nothing interesting at all... even the most stupid player can now play without thinking about how to combine Boons, power, Mounts & Companion passives... Its all even ... My boon turned into "Boon Points" for stats... 250 per point to be exactly... i call it primitive and its no challenge to me anymore to find something interesting because its not possible anymore.
Today I take my 14k( 11k in mod15) toon for a spin in prophecy of madness. I played her as a stormwarden archer as usual and its are terrible. Electric shot hit like 600+ per hit
To me that says your character is not built right. What are your offensive stats? Have you Maxed out ArPen? If not, your DPS gets reduced massively. What about your Accuracy, Crit and CA? Which weapon enchant are you using - I mean some build choices that were good before are just not that great any more.
Adapt or die.
That "adapt or die" philosophy cuts both ways. Sure, the players are now forced to relearn everything about the game - but the company
Mod 16 (ie the 71-80 content) is pretty good. There are bugs in it but it feels ok for the most part except the problem with finding mobs as is normal with new mods. However any content that scales you is bad. It doesn't matter if you are lvl 30 being scaled to 20. The lvl 20 mobs hit harder in some cases then the lvl 30 mobs. If you just stay in the lvl 80 content then you will have no worries and lets face it most of the end game players don't need to leave it. It's the rest of us and the up and coming that are going to have the problems.
I really want to buy into the hype, I really do, but to use your exact example:
Neverdeath Cemetary heroic dragon, dead in three seconds. I literally got one shot on it before it was over. It would seem that this myth of "scaling is going to kill the newbies is just that, a myth. Before the update, the dragon took 2-3 minutes to kill, on the outside.
Give a couple of RIQs a spin and talk to me about a 'scaling myth'.
Three days ago low end Epic dungeons like Malabog, Kessel and Valindra were cakewalks. Now they are too much for most PUGs. That's not a myth.
I based that on someone stating that this system was going to kill lowbies trying to do their thing. So far, that hasn't been my experience, being scaled from 70 to 61, or from 45ish to 30. It's ironic that you point to pugs, since in the history of MMOs pugs have always had a reputation for being notoriously bad, or notoriously potentially bad. Why is it, do you suppose that even prior to the update, people weren't hitting the queue for dungeon runs, but were using the LFG channel to form them? Do you suppose it was to avoid having to pug it? If so, why do you think that is? Sadly, the system that we played under prior to this update was bone numbingly easy, to the point where players ignore mechanics in end game content and then get confused when they die.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Today I take my 14k( 11k in mod15) toon for a spin in prophecy of madness. I played her as a stormwarden archer as usual and its are terrible. Electric shot hit like 600+ per hit
To me that says your character is not built right. What are your offensive stats? Have you Maxed out ArPen? If not, your DPS gets reduced massively. What about your Accuracy, Crit and CA? Which weapon enchant are you using - I mean some build choices that were good before are just not that great any more.
Adapt or die or leave.
fixed it for ya
I thought you already left? Just spamming how you're gonna so you can drum up some sympathy or something?
and you you think that you are a Forum Controller now or what? why do you even care what he or others write or think ? Dont you have better things to do than to remember who posted what or when here ? go play , chain death´s at Demagorgon are FOM right now ..
0
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
> @jakeesan said: > All any one does now-a-days is hate on every new game or big update in any game. Mod16 is freakin awesome. Ill admit the warlock needs a little buff, but the rest is simply great. Every thing feels better. > > Moderator edited title to be less aggressive.
You were just 30 short of the Arc "LOL" badge? If so, well played.
Show us the video of your happy, smiling Warlock breezing through CN, ToNG and nDemo. Now THAT would be "freaking awesome".
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
so okay, real talk. how were any of you happy with the state of the game pre mod 16? how is a less than 15 min run of ToNG fun? how is killing everything with out the risk of getting killed fun? (and at that point its becomes the lowest grade of grinding) I liked the feat/boon selection and how you could tailor your class to your liking but...looking back I always picked the same skills over and over again with my alts and never touching certain moves and skills and min/maxed everything else...
and what would have happened if they didn't do this and kept chugging along with the same old method? bad enough pre 16 dungeons (aside from the k-team) were garbage and the devs had to boost the mobs attack just so there's an "challenge" (which made it "either full health or not")
1
rickcase276Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,404Arc User
It all comes down to what a person finds fun. Not everyone is going to feel or think the same, but if the majority feels one way that is a good indicator that something is not working as envisioned. As for me I am sort of in the middle, some of the mod is okay, some of it is frustrating.
2
dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
My main is already level 80.
No way was this worth totally redesigning the game.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
Just a FRIENDLY reminder to all those that thought pre-MOD 16 was just to easy, well now, there were a whole lot of us that still struggled with eSoT, Tiamat, and even Prophecy of Madness due to NOT having an IL over 12K . What you found EASY, we found hard, now that is EVERYTHING is harder, as some now like it, just put EVERYTHING in the DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT category for a lot of us, which now means IN REALITY, very LIMITED game play. Is it really that hard to understand?
Today I take my 14k( 11k in mod15) toon for a spin in prophecy of madness. I played her as a stormwarden archer as usual and its are terrible. Electric shot hit like 600+ per hit
To me that says your character is not built right. What are your offensive stats? Have you Maxed out ArPen? If not, your DPS gets reduced massively. What about your Accuracy, Crit and CA? Which weapon enchant are you using - I mean some build choices that were good before are just not that great any more.
Adapt or die or leave.
fixed it for ya
I thought you already left? Just spamming how you're gonna so you can drum up some sympathy or something?
and you you think that you are a Forum Controller now or what? why do you even care what he or others write or think ? Dont you have better things to do than to remember who posted what or when here ? go play , chain death´s at Demagorgon are FOM right now ..
Are you attempting to moderate me? If you'd read two more posts, you'd have the answer to your attempt. I asked a question, he answered it. Is he your son or something that you feel like you have to go on full on attack mode to "save" him from some evil man on the forum?
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
is that Good? Just Curious as I only ran it once and cannot remember how long it took.
2
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
40-50 minutes longer than a good team used to be able to run it.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
1
klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited April 2019
I just pugged Valindra earlier today and it felt like an achievement, despite the rewards being a damn joke. I had to use Ress scrolls because those shadows now have a turbo speed and it seems impossible to outrun them. Mod 16 Valindra > Mod 15 Ras Nsi
The inevitable conclusion of giving too much weight to the feedback of the people who said that the game was way too easy (yeah for characters who overgeared the instances by 5k+). Disregarding the position of mid-low players is a mistake that Cryptic will regret, unless they fix this mess asap.
The unforgivable thing is that certain bugs from Preview are still live, some of which were reported on the FIRST build of preview nearly 2 months ago! Into The Fray still gives super AP generation lol and they somehow managed to break Fighter's at-wills while blocking JUST in time for Release. /facepalm
Into The Fray still gives super AP generation lol and they somehow managed to break Fighter's at-wills while blocking JUST in time for Release. /facepalm
In the patch notes, both of these are being addressed according to them. However; they have stated in patch notes in the past things that were suppose to be solved which in fact were not solved. But anyways they both appear to be "solved" in the patch tomorrow.
The comments are a mess of complaints over widely different causes:
1: Yes, game is harder now. Frankly, it was way too easy to be challenging pre mod-16. People were solo-running GROUP content like CN. Something had to happen. Adapt or leave.
2: Yes, you have to use proper group tactics now. Tanks tank, healers heal and dps do their thing and try stay out of the way of the mobs. No more solo-running ahead in group instances. No more attacking mobs from the front. No more reckless aggro-grabbing. Adapt or leave.
3: Yes, the game is full of bugs. Scaling effects oneshotting people all over the place, bad group builds in RQ's etc etc. Mod 16 obviously was pushed to live a few weeks too early. But this is going to be fixed, I would assume the most glaring problems will be fixed in next Thursdays patch. (Probably no time to fix nontrivial issues in time for todays patch). Over the next 3-4 weeks these bugs will be fixed, so just calm down and be patient.
4: Yes, killing stuff is slower now. It had to be so that healing would matter again. The very rapid playstyle we had before did not support much beyond full hp or dead. Slower killing was required so the healers got time to react. I wish they had made the encounters recover a bit faster through.. lower damage with faster recovery would have been a better recipe. The combat system in NW used to be the best around, and I am not sure it is that any more. Adapt or leave.
5. Yes, game is less complex now. Barely any feats, barely any boons, very little configuration freedom. While I can see arguments related to casual friendliness and maintenance complexity, maybe they did go a bit too far on this. Anyways, adapt or leave.
If you hate the game now for reasons 1, 2, 4 or 5, these are design decisions that won't go away so it is time to find a new game.
If you hate the game now for reason 3 just be patient, they will fix the bugs just give them some time. The Undermountain campaign seems to work fairly well and with little bugs/problems, so play Undermountain content while the rest of the world is brought back from insanity.
I agree. I like if things become more difficult or challenging. But right now after checking out most of the dungeons. I was only able to complete one, eTos. I tried VT but was unable to finish it because the shadows with the DoT are too fast, I couldn't out run them. If you get caught by one, you can't get a way. The trash mobs weren't too bad, we did have lots of deaths getting to the boss but it was fun. Some of that can be solved through learning the proper mechanics for it. However nDemo and eDemo are totally broken. Characters take WAY too much damage just entering the field. There is no adjusting to mechanics to win it as it currently is.
Just a FRIENDLY reminder to all those that thought pre-MOD 16 was just to easy, well now, there were a whole lot of us that still struggled with eSoT, Tiamat, and even Prophecy of Madness due to NOT having an IL over 12K . What you found EASY, we found hard, now that is EVERYTHING is harder, as some now like it, just put EVERYTHING in the DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT category for a lot of us, which now means IN REALITY, very LIMITED game play. Is it really that hard to understand?
Did you struggle in zones you were the right IL for? did you even struggle once when leveling?
only time group content makes you struggle in pre 16 is either A) you running it with the MINIMUM IL or you run off and pull a mob in a crazy attempt to be top dps (and we all know most pre-16 dungeon mobs hit like Godzilla on steroids to any non tank or those lacking any real def... which the devs only did because lifesteal was way too powerful)
0
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
edited April 2019
"Don't listen to negative feedback." Start a company , follow that advice. See how long you stay in business.
I'm continuing to give it a chance. But it hasn't improved much since preview in terms of ergonomics of the new mechanics.
Scaling/capping aside, combat is slower, less complicated... frankly boring imho.
Assuming the cap issues are fixed, I plan to finish campaign on my 5 main Tooks. I don't plan on any loud dramatic rage-quitting.
If it continues to bore or fruatrate me I'll do the same as with anything else boring. Just lose interest. We will see.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
The reason we don't have square wheels on our cars is because the masses agreed that square wheels are stupid, the criticism was accepted and round wheel was invented. It will be interesting to see how far they will push the car on square wheels.
I read all of the comments, both positive and negative. My read is that generally those of you who are more on the hard core gamer side like a lot of the changes in Mod 16, but those that are more casual players are not so happy. I have issues mainly with the scaling, if starting and progressing new characters is to difficult they will start the game and end up getting frustrated and quit.....no new players, the game will eventually die. To increase the demise of the game, those casual players who will not invest cash and/or personal time struggling to progress, will move on to a game less challenging to invest their time and money resulting in less players ($$$). So ARC Neverwinter development team has to decide which type of customer they need to have to survive. In the twenty plus years of online gaming, I have only invested my resources in three games, Neverwinter being the most recent and if it doesn't remain fun in the future it will make me look elsewhere.
I read all of the comments, both positive and negative. My read is that generally those of you who are more on the hard core gamer side like a lot of the changes in Mod 16, but those that are more casual players are not so happy.
I think almost everyone dislikes the scaling.
Idk if I'm "harcore", but I played a lot, got my main maxed out, with 3 leg mounts for different aspects, one mount power for pvp, another for stats for pvp, and another for pve. But I really don't like the changes to mechanics (too simple, not interesting), and I really really don't like the changed to feat and power model, not enough build variation possible.
If they simply left powers like before (w/o power points), and feats with 3-4 rows, with one row changes based on paragon path, and the others are available to both paragon paths, without adding or removing any feats that m16 currently has. (Hope that makes sense) there would be much more build customization than there currently is. I think a picture would do better to show what I mean, I'll work on that.
Just a FRIENDLY reminder to all those that thought pre-MOD 16 was just to easy, well now, there were a whole lot of us that still struggled with eSoT, Tiamat, and even Prophecy of Madness due to NOT having an IL over 12K . What you found EASY, we found hard, now that is EVERYTHING is harder, as some now like it, just put EVERYTHING in the DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT category for a lot of us, which now means IN REALITY, very LIMITED game play. Is it really that hard to understand?
I think your point gets overlooked (intentionally) by some very vocal veteran players with very specific personal needs from the game.
There's more than a whiff of the "What's wrong with YOU?" mentality in many comments. If you haven't earned every possible doodad and widget necessary to conquer the latest Mount BanderSnot zone and boss Grogfart the Magnificent - the implication is that your opinion doesn't matter, and you really should just let the 'grown ups'...ahem...make all the important decisions.
Comments
By the time they fix this game again it will already be dead.
Adapt? yeah rite.. tell that to those people that has lost hope in the development team. Die? lol.. Its more like a goodbye. Mod16 started off with a good intention but those monotonous changes just kills it.
Three days ago low end Epic dungeons like Malabog, Kessel and Valindra were cakewalks. Now they are too much for most PUGs. That's not a myth.
even the most stupid player can now play without thinking about how to combine Boons, power, Mounts & Companion passives...
Its all even ... My boon turned into "Boon Points" for stats... 250 per point to be exactly...
i call it primitive and its no challenge to me anymore to find something interesting because its not possible anymore.
> All any one does now-a-days is hate on every new game or big update in any game. Mod16 is freakin awesome. Ill admit the warlock needs a little buff, but the rest is simply great. Every thing feels better.
>
> Moderator edited title to be less aggressive.
You were just 30 short of the Arc "LOL" badge?
If so, well played.
Show us the video of your happy, smiling Warlock breezing through CN, ToNG and nDemo.
Now THAT would be "freaking awesome".
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
and what would have happened if they didn't do this and kept chugging along with the same old method? bad enough pre 16 dungeons (aside from the k-team) were garbage and the devs had to boost the mobs attack just so there's an "challenge" (which made it "either full health or not")
No way was this worth totally redesigning the game.
I laughed at this. Then I ran my hubby’s lvl 80, 23k OP in NORMAL DEMO and got one shot by a demon...through the shield.
Scaling isn’t just broken...it’s HAMSTER* broke.
And I believe we reported this over and over and over and over and over...well you get the drift.
No more running ques until this HAMSTER is fixed..waste of time and resources.
But hey, the minimal lvl 80 content was a breeze...
Mod 16 Valindra > Mod 15 Ras Nsi
The inevitable conclusion of giving too much weight to the feedback of the people who said that the game was way too easy (yeah for characters who overgeared the instances by 5k+).
Disregarding the position of mid-low players is a mistake that Cryptic will regret, unless they fix this mess asap.
The unforgivable thing is that certain bugs from Preview are still live, some of which were reported on the FIRST build of preview nearly 2 months ago!
Into The Fray still gives super AP generation lol and they somehow managed to break Fighter's at-wills while blocking JUST in time for Release. /facepalm
1: Yes, game is harder now. Frankly, it was way too easy to be challenging pre mod-16. People were solo-running GROUP content like CN. Something had to happen. Adapt or leave.
2: Yes, you have to use proper group tactics now. Tanks tank, healers heal and dps do their thing and try stay out of the way of the mobs. No more solo-running ahead in group instances. No more attacking mobs from the front. No more reckless aggro-grabbing. Adapt or leave.
3: Yes, the game is full of bugs. Scaling effects oneshotting people all over the place, bad group builds in RQ's etc etc. Mod 16 obviously was pushed to live a few weeks too early. But this is going to be fixed, I would assume the most glaring problems will be fixed in next Thursdays patch. (Probably no time to fix nontrivial issues in time for todays patch). Over the next 3-4 weeks these bugs will be fixed, so just calm down and be patient.
4: Yes, killing stuff is slower now. It had to be so that healing would matter again. The very rapid playstyle we had before did not support much beyond full hp or dead. Slower killing was required so the healers got time to react. I wish they had made the encounters recover a bit faster through.. lower damage with faster recovery would have been a better recipe. The combat system in NW used to be the best around, and I am not sure it is that any more. Adapt or leave.
5. Yes, game is less complex now. Barely any feats, barely any boons, very little configuration freedom. While I can see arguments related to casual friendliness and maintenance complexity, maybe they did go a bit too far on this. Anyways, adapt or leave.
If you hate the game now for reasons 1, 2, 4 or 5, these are design decisions that won't go away so it is time to find a new game.
If you hate the game now for reason 3 just be patient, they will fix the bugs just give them some time.
The Undermountain campaign seems to work fairly well and with little bugs/problems, so play Undermountain content while the rest of the world is brought back from insanity.
only time group content makes you struggle in pre 16 is either A) you running it with the MINIMUM IL or you run off and pull a mob in a crazy attempt to be top dps (and we all know most pre-16 dungeon mobs hit like Godzilla on steroids to any non tank or those lacking any real def... which the devs only did because lifesteal was way too powerful)
Start a company , follow that advice.
See how long you stay in business.
I'm continuing to give it a chance.
But it hasn't improved much since preview in terms of ergonomics of the new mechanics.
Scaling/capping aside, combat is slower, less complicated... frankly boring imho.
Assuming the cap issues are fixed, I plan to finish campaign on my 5 main Tooks.
I don't plan on any loud dramatic rage-quitting.
If it continues to bore or fruatrate me I'll do the same as with anything else boring. Just lose interest. We will see.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
The reason we don't have square wheels on our cars is because the masses agreed that square wheels are stupid, the criticism was accepted and round wheel was invented.
It will be interesting to see how far they will push the car on square wheels.
Idk if I'm "harcore", but I played a lot, got my main maxed out, with 3 leg mounts for different aspects, one mount power for pvp, another for stats for pvp, and another for pve. But I really don't like the changes to mechanics (too simple, not interesting), and I really really don't like the changed to feat and power model, not enough build variation possible.
If they simply left powers like before (w/o power points), and feats with 3-4 rows, with one row changes based on paragon path, and the others are available to both paragon paths, without adding or removing any feats that m16 currently has. (Hope that makes sense) there would be much more build customization than there currently is. I think a picture would do better to show what I mean, I'll work on that.
There's more than a whiff of the "What's wrong with YOU?" mentality in many comments. If you haven't earned every possible doodad and widget necessary to conquer the latest Mount BanderSnot zone and boss Grogfart the Magnificent - the implication is that your opinion doesn't matter, and you really should just let the 'grown ups'...ahem...make all the important decisions.