If you cant duscuss without any derailing or insulting, take your own advice : "if you dont like it, just leave" Thx
Show me where I've been insulting. Thx.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
They did what they felt was best for the majority of the population, rather than a very small minority.
So let me ask you, if its all for the majority: Why no overhaul at the ZEN Shop? Why do we have still so many overpriced useless items in ZEN Shop? Do you think the last "great offered package" for 15K was made for the majority? Really?
MOD16 was made with the majority in mind. That's all Kreatyve was referring to. Got nothing to do with the Zen shop.
Besides, what overhaul do they need to make for the zen shop anyways. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy zen, or buy stuff from the zen shop. Who the hell knows what they are thinking when they make zen packs. There is little reason to buy them aside from the pay to win Dragonborn pack. And that's only because its got that ridiculously great value "30 slot bag for every character on your account" bonus. There seems to be a real schizophrenic mentality on value there.
MOD16 was made with the majority in mind. That's all Kreatyve was referring to. Got nothing to do with the Zen shop.
Mod 16 was made for casual, bc they bring the most money ( refering to Kreatyve). I disagree with that, but....if this was the intention to make mod 16 with all theese changes, why no overhaul for ZEN Shop? ZEN shop brings money. So if a modul is made for new players and casuals, bc they bring the money, why does ZEN shop nothing to do with it? Makes no sense, does it? Has nothing to do with "schizphrenic mentality on value". Its just a simple question, bc kreatyve said its was made for casuals/new players and casuals bringing the most money.
Spidey
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
Because, if they make changes to the zen shop, that will come later. First comes the overhaul of the core game mechanics and characters.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Because, if they make changes to the zen shop, that will come later. First comes the overhaul of the core game mechanics and characters.
For leveling enchants you dont need any change ingame mechanics.....but you need wards....so i dont see any reason why the prices still the same at wards ( for example...) in ZEN shop. Even if we are getting level 15 enchants.
You do know that people setting up the prices and such on the Zen Store are certainly NOT the same people working at changing the ingame mechanics right? The two can totally be done in parrallel. It took YEARS to remove the insane scam that was the blood rubies pack on the Zen Store. Now that that the stones of health are the trash drop of lockboxes, look at their prices on the Zen Store. 500/1500 Zen, that's absolutly ridiculous. 1 and 1/2 coalescent for a 30k item that drop on the low tiers of lockboxes rewards. I'm not even sure they have a clue of how much of a scam some items are on the Zen Store, based on the time they took to remove the Blood Rubies. Or maybe is it intended? :thinking:
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
MOD16 was made with the majority in mind. That's all Kreatyve was referring to. Got nothing to do with the Zen shop.
Mod 16 was made for casual, bc they bring the most money ( refering to Kreatyve). I disagree with that, but....if this was the intention to make mod 16 with all theese changes, why no overhaul for ZEN Shop? ZEN shop brings money. So if a modul is made for new players and casuals, bc they bring the money, why does ZEN shop nothing to do with it? Makes no sense, does it? Has nothing to do with "schizphrenic mentality on value". Its just a simple question, bc kreatyve said its was made for casuals/new players and casuals bringing the most money.
Spidey
You don't think the "majority" of players are casuals?
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
You don't think the "majority" of players are casuals?
Ofc they are. Never said otherwise. But i disagree that casuals spend the most money in NW. There are some nice studies outta there. A casual will get to the point where he thinks about to spend money ( fancy stuff mostly). But a casual will never spend 15k or 20k for a package. NW is not Fortnite. I believe we still have the pareto principle in NW. You wanna make money with casuals? Overhaul your ZEN shop. Lower your prices. Bring more fancy stuff ( customs, fancy mounts etc.) for a reasonable price. Atm and even with the new module there is no reason to believe that casuals will spend a good ammount of money in this game. Maybe im wrong. We will see how your marketing guys are working in mod 16 and what they offering in the future.
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
You don't think the "majority" of players are casuals?
Ofc they are. Never said otherwise. But i disagree that casuals spend the most money in NW. There are some nice studies outta there. A casual will get to the point where he thinks about to spend money ( fancy stuff mostly). But a casual will never spend 15k or 20k for a package. NW is not Fortnite. I believe we still have the pareto principle in NW. You wanna make money with casuals? Overhaul your ZEN shop. Lower your prices. Bring more fancy stuff ( customs, fancy mounts etc.) for a reasonable price. Atm and even with the new module there is no reason to believe that casuals will spend a good ammount of money in this game. Maybe im wrong. We will see how your marketing guys are working in mod 16 and what they offering in the future.
Took Translate Bot: The Pareto principle states that roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes. Can be used to estimate the distribution of income and wealth among the population.
Beep Boop
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
You don't think the "majority" of players are casuals?
Ofc they are. Never said otherwise. But i disagree that casuals spend the most money in NW. There are some nice studies outta there. A casual will get to the point where he thinks about to spend money ( fancy stuff mostly). But a casual will never spend 15k or 20k for a package. NW is not Fortnite. I believe we still have the pareto principle in NW. You wanna make money with casuals? Overhaul your ZEN shop. Lower your prices. Bring more fancy stuff ( customs, fancy mounts etc.) for a reasonable price. Atm and even with the new module there is no reason to believe that casuals will spend a good ammount of money in this game. Maybe im wrong. We will see how your marketing guys are working in mod 16 and what they offering in the future.
Yes to this.
I am a casual player.
I am prepared to spend real life money on Neverwinter.
I have disposable income.
Currently there is NOTHING I would buy from the Zen market - I am your demographic and a potential customer.
I have walked into your shop of my own volition and walked out without buying anything - this should tell you something
It's incredible how many opinions there are about the prices in Zen market and the economy in the game overall. But I say now, as I have said earlier, that 15-20k for a package in Zen-market is outside the frame for most of us "casual" players, as many have stated are not going to spend this amount of real money on this. As someone said earlier, the prices in Zen-market must go down if Cryptic wants us to buy from there, that's just my opinion on this. As it is now, I enjoy the game, I buy nothing and progress really slowly with my 1 character and it's okay for now. when the day comes that I see, that the prices overall are to my favor, then I will decide if I'm willing to spend my money but I'm realistic, I think that day may never come .
If I'm insulting anyone with those words then I apologize that was not my intentsion.
But decissions like enchants BtA and the answers from @noworries#8859 about this change?
I agree 100% on ur first post... I dont like mod 16 a single bit (i played hours upon hours on preview and i hate my cw and TR, and i play for 3plus years)
BUT the BTA enchantments are actually a good thing..(if u think about it) If they would be unbound, the AH would be crushed.. In the first hour after mod 16 releases People bought a ton of ench allready low price, on ps4 for them to sell for huge amounts of AD in mod 16...
I can dislike it, but its a change that i can at least understand WHY they did that
The class changes etc i can not understand… UGH!.. ;(
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
I just cannot believe ANYBODY thinks this mod is for the casual player. The only people I know that like it are the "I have one BiS character and it's the only thing I care about" types, "Waaah this game is too easy and I'm bored".
These types are exactly the ones massively overrepresented in the forum population which itself is a tiny fraction of the playing population, and these seem to be the people the devs listen to.
If you're a casual and have been for a decent time, this mod is an utter disaster. Everything you've played for 6 years for becomes utterly useless, levelling up and regearing all your characters when the game is less fun by about 90% just doesn't appeal. The dishonest false flagging of "we don't want players to mess themselves up with bad builds" while nerfing everybody back to what would be a really bad build in M15 and claiming to increase build diversity while actually reducing the number of viable builds (in some cases to zero) is just obscene. Bear in mind some people don't like some playstyles, so if you force that playstyle on a class or path, that can completely eliminate your options.
How it will play out for new players who haven't seen M15 I'm not sure.
Everything you've played for 6 years for becomes utterly useless,
Not really true.
It only is your weapons and armor and jewelry that probably will be completely replaced due to level 80. Those are more or less up for replacement each mod anyways, so nothing new there.
They did add more growth room on top of insignias, enchantments and companions, but most of what you have already gained retains its value.
MOD16 was made with the majority in mind. That's all Kreatyve was referring to. Got nothing to do with the Zen shop.
Mod 16 was made for casual, bc they bring the most money ( refering to Kreatyve). I disagree with that, but....if this was the intention to make mod 16 with all theese changes, why no overhaul for ZEN Shop? ZEN shop brings money. So if a modul is made for new players and casuals, bc they bring the money, why does ZEN shop nothing to do with it? Makes no sense, does it? Has nothing to do with "schizphrenic mentality on value". Its just a simple question, bc kreatyve said its was made for casuals/new players and casuals bringing the most money.
Spidey
You don't think the "majority" of players are casuals?
In looking at some market research on games the majority of the money comes not from casuals but from whales. The person that has a lot of money and has to have the best things first. That is the group you will get the most money out of. There is a curve to it in where you place your price points in which will give the highest yields of return. The same is true with casuals in that they purchase different things. The prices for what you get for a casual would be in the lower money range if they were marketing towards them. Since you get very little in game for what you pay they are already gearing their prices towards the whales right now. To get a high end toon that is close to BiS would cost about $10,000+ dollars. That is the current trend in games as you look at mobile games and how other game designers are looking to emulate their design. If they wanted to get more casuals spending money they would lower their price point. This is why I think they have their marketing off since the design of the game is drifting towards new players and casuals while pushing out the end game players or whales in the game. If you make a whale mad are they going to spend as much or anything on your game? I see it as losing a lot of revenue. The question will be are any of the new and casual players going to turn into whales in the future?
Guild Leader: Under the Influence Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I just cannot believe ANYBODY thinks this mod is for the casual player. The only people I know that like it are the "I have one BiS character and it's the only thing I care about" types, "Waaah this game is too easy and I'm bored".
I would strongly disagree with that. I mean... I pretty much fall into the "I have one BiS character and it's the only thing I care about" (got my 19K IL DC, which I created way back on the first day of open beta, and that character has more playtime than my other 15 characters combined. I also would agree that "Waaah this game is too easy and I'm bored" to a degree. OK, K-Team is not "too easy", but the rest is, well...a bit boring.
But no, I do not "like" M16. There are bits and pieces I think are OK, or even an improvement, but overall, it is not a good Module as far as I am concerned, and it certainly is not aimed at me, or other people with BiS characters.
The people I know who really like Mod 16 fall into one of the following three categories:
People who like playing Clerics and have been disappointed that their primary role has not been to heal.
Impatient "New" players who have been discouraged by the effort and grinding required to reach the "end-game". With Power points gone, and boons being devalued, it is now much, much easier to just to spend a bit of money and reach "end-game" in a very short time.
Players who have been discouraged by the complexity of the game - all the different stats, paragon, boons, feats and gear choices, and the problem of being told they are essentially useless if they make the wrong choices. By limiting the number of options, and making those that remain all equally ineffective, so it really does not matter what you do, this problem goes away.
Hoping for improvements...
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
I just cannot believe ANYBODY thinks this mod is for the casual player. The only people I know that like it are the "I have one BiS character and it's the only thing I care about" types, "Waaah this game is too easy and I'm bored".
I would strongly disagree with that. I mean... I pretty much fall into the "I have one BiS character and it's the only thing I care about" (got my 19K IL DC, which I created way back on the first day of open beta, and that character has more playtime than my other 15 characters combined. I also would agree that "Waaah this game is too easy and I'm bored" to a degree. OK, K-Team is not "too easy", but the rest is, well...a bit boring.
But no, I do not "like" M16. There are bits and pieces I think are OK, or even an improvement, but overall, it is not a good Module as far as I am concerned, and it certainly is not aimed at me, or other people with BiS characters.
The people I know who really like Mod 16 fall into one of the following three categories:
People who like playing Clerics and have been disappointed that their primary role has not been to heal.
Impatient "New" players who have been discouraged by the effort and grinding required to reach the "end-game". With Power points gone, and boons being devalued, it is now much, much easier to just to spend a bit of money and reach "end-game" in a very short time.
Players who have been discouraged by the complexity of the game - all the different stats, paragon, boons, feats and gear choices, and the problem of being told they are essentially useless if they make the wrong choices. By limiting the number of options, and making those that remain all equally ineffective, so it really does not matter what you do, this problem goes away.
I don't know anybody in any of these categories you list who likes this from 2 basically full alliances. Power points were irrelevant, getting to the 80 or 85 you actually need was trivial (I have 16x124 I think, my last char might be 1 short). All the clerics I knew enjoyed buffing rather than healing, and if the complexity was a problem you looked a build up on the net.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I don't know anybody in any of these categories you list who likes this from 2 basically full alliances.
Don't twist my words. I did not say that people in those categories like the mod - I said that the people I know who liked the mod (and that's a really small number of people) fell into one of those categories. Not the same thing.
Most people I know either hate it, or dislike most of it, although they may think it has some good aspects. There are some who really like the general idea behind the changes, but dislike the implementation. Some them are cautiously optimistic that the worst flaws will get fixed within the next few months, similar to what happened back with Mod 6, but as for actually liking most of Mod 16? Nah....not most of the people I know.
One thing I never understood about most of these developers in the last 10 years maybe longer is that they don't view the players as their boss. The players are the ones paying for the pay checks yet they take huge dumps on their player base and give false information or out right lie.
Now I understand that players typically don't understand all the details of what goes into making a game or what it takes to run an MMO but seriously you can't ignore 90% of them and only listen to a few fan boys who will always say positive things when they know things are really not all that positive.
The way I'm looking at this new mod is Cryptic needs to win the players over.. Sure new players who don't know anything will come in after mod 16 goes live and will play it completely unaware that there were even changes. But as far as the cash cow veterans go, taking a huge HAMSTER on them is not doing anything to get them to want to put some more cash down. With all the competition out there what keeps a cash cow player in NW when there are other games competing for their money? A player with lots of disposable cash isn't going to stick around because its loosely based on dnd.
Cryptic needs to convince me that I should spend more money. I have spent quite a bit over the years and don't regret it but they really need to convince me that its still worth doing. So far I don't see it with how things have been going.
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
One thing I never understood about most of these developers in the last 10 years maybe longer is that they don't view the players as their boss. The players are the ones paying for the pay checks yet they take huge dumps on their player base and give false information or out right lie.
Now I understand that players typically don't understand all the details of what goes into making a game or what it takes to run an MMO but seriously you can't ignore 90% of them and only listen to a few fan boys who will always say positive things when they know things are really not all that positive.
The way I'm looking at this new mod is Cryptic needs to win the players over.. Sure new players who don't know anything will come in after mod 16 goes live and will play it completely unaware that there were even changes. But as far as the cash cow veterans go, taking a huge HAMSTER on them is not doing anything to get them to want to put some more cash down. With all the competition out there what keeps a cash cow player in NW when there are other games competing for their money? A player with lots of disposable cash isn't going to stick around because its loosely based on dnd.
Cryptic needs to convince me that I should spend more money. I have spent quite a bit over the years and don't regret it but they really need to convince me that its still worth doing. So far I don't see it with how things have been going.
This sums it up pretty well, but there is history with Cryptic and this sort of thing going back to CoH.
In the early days of CoH, one man in Cryptic had the vision of how he wanted the game played. The players had a lot more fun doing it differently so ever more nerfs were introduced to make you play "his way". The game was dying, Cryptic sold it, the devs had more independence and produced a great game for many more years.
What happened to it ? eventually the devs and the publisher fell out and it closed while still profitable.
Having an (as yet unreleased, but should be soon) MMO as a sort of day job, I have some idea about what it takes to make a game and (the CoH devs published some of the stats) the pitfalls of treating the forum population as representative of the player base.
I can't see myself ever spending any more real money on this game without a massive change in attitude from the devs. I don't feel it is playable in M16 without VIP and if zen is going to take several months to arrive via the ZAX and my VIP runs out, I will have to wait until it comes through (2 months so far).
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Its pure conjecture to state they are doing these changes for any one group or another.. imo , since we are all throwing out casual conjecture.. its not for any one set of type of players.. but basically a streamlining to operate the game with a reduced staff and simply it for consoles.. not stating console players are dumb, but lets be honest, its far easier to do alot of the stuff they are removing (like testing feats, powers, comps ect ect ect) on pc.. in addition, there is a boat load of scroll through stuff with current system, which will be highly streamlined in neverwinter 2.0.
Again.. thats just my conjecture.. its as valid as anyone's I suppose.
I highly doubt they are doing anything for any sort of majority or not.. but to me, with such a small staff, it seems pretty apparent, they cant continue operating this game and make it anywhere near balanced with current staffing levels.. so hence, instead of hiring more staff, they are just reducing what is needed going forward.
Zen market is complete waste of time to dicuss, whatever incentives there would be to make it viable again, will also hurt players as well. Removing items from AH to stop this so called endless looping (which I have my doubts this is as bad as people decribe the problem, as it takes a very long time to recoup the zen now) will make zen just more needed, not less, now everyone and thier grandmother will be posting for it.. and still no reason to sell it. or by reducing AD income by loads (which again hurts new players the most) ect ect.. so many "ways" to fix it , but most of them come at the expense at alot of the player base.
The only way to have fixed in in reality.. was to restart the game and make a neverwinter 2.
Everyone can continue blaming it till they are blue in the face... but most of the "fixes" I hear are just horrendous.. when in reality, those who spend cash are the penalized ones and those who do not spend cash.. seem to come out ahead. That makes no sense to me.
Cash spenders should always come out a bit ahead in any f2p model.. whats the point of spending cash ? In fact this game already bends pretty far over to the other side (more then alot of other mmos ive played) where f2ps get everything , just have to wait it out to get it.
Thats up to you.. so right now, the only incentive to spend cash.. is because of the wait. If there is no wait, what is the incentive?
You get SO little in return for selling zen.. event making it 1k to 1.. wouldnt be worth it to me.
feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
I don't think the devs have any group of players in mind with these changes. Most of the veteran players I know are very disappointed with mod 16. We just want the game to be fun (rather than feeling like a second job), balanced (so we can play the classes we actually like), rewarding (instead of infested with grind and RNG) and intelligible. Apart from the new feat system, which I do like, I don't see any moves toward those directions.
Just the same old power creep, refinement creep, throwing out the old system so people have to invest heavily in all aspects of the new one, the usual failure to address longstanding problems (or large new ones like the complete mess mod 15 made of masterwork by failing to incorporate +1 items properly), and total disregard of what players want. In sum, the wrong answers to the wrong questions. Nice environment design, though.
If new players and casual players and veterans are all displeased....who's left?
I have some experience with organizing on a large scale for a self-important, demanding and - dare I say it - whiny demographic, so I can relate to how the dev team must feel about some of our complaints. But if the play testers' input made mod 16 so much better than it would have been otherwise, I truly cannot imagine how awful it must have been without them.
If you believe the developers have wax in their ears. Then you should talk to the players online. Today several individuals didn't know that the Foundry is shutting down forever tomorrow. One even went as far to blame me for trolling chat. Later during a Dragon Run, many were unaware that speed boosting is all but gone in M16. I asked them, "I suppose when M16 drops on the 23rd we need to call this the Dragon Walk instead." Thinking they would get the joke. Instead they asked me if there was something wrong with the module. Only 1 boon to increase speed, no dark speed boost, and Gladiator's Guile cut to 10%? These are but mere examples of things to come. We few here in the game's forums, will not be the ones complaining as loud in game chat come the 23rd.
Module 16 is going to hit that rock so hard, these players are living under, it will break, and they will believe the apocalypse has come. It is their fault for not being part of this community here on the forums. I applaud everyone for being here, yes even the ones I tend to disagree with from time to time.
If you believe the developers have wax in their ears. Then you should talk to the players online. Today several individuals didn't know that the Foundry is shutting down forever tomorrow. One even went as far to blame me for trolling chat. Later during a Dragon Run, many were unaware that speed boosting is all but gone in M16. I asked them, "I suppose when M16 drops on the 23rd we need to call this the Dragon Walk instead." Thinking they would get the joke. Instead they asked me if there was something wrong with the module. Only 1 boon to increase speed, no dark speed boost, and Gladiator's Guile cut to 10%? These are but mere examples of things to come. We few here in the game's forums, will not be the ones complaining as loud in game chat come the 23rd.
Module 16 is going to hit that rock so hard, these players are living under, it will break, and they will believe the apocalypse has come. It is their fault for not being part of this community here on the forums. I applaud everyone for being here, yes even the ones I tend to disagree with from time to time.
I was testing the difference of having all rank 14s vs having all rank 15s and I can see no incentive to upgrade your enchants to 15. Looking at the over all average damage numbers and there is nothing additive to them. The over all stat difference is so little that it essentially does nothing. I saw more of an impact swamping different companions around and using different companion bonuses. But as it currently sits there is no need to go to rank 15 enchants. You would be better off saving all your upgrade materials and selling them to players who haven't figured it out yet and buying or trading for companions that give you better stat feedback.
Why did I respond with this here? Because this is just another thing that players won't be aware of until the day they do and they react by pushing the uninstall button.
This is similar to the upgrades in STO. The differences in a Mark 14 and Mark 15 is marginal in effect, but massive in cost. I don't think this is a bad idea. In fact, I think its great since the crazy people will still go for 15s regardless of cost but the more casual player with lower grade enchants wont be completely outclassed by them. The hardcore can still flash their shiney 15s around and the casuals can do or don't at their own discretion.
...Then you should talk to the players online. Today several individuals didn't know that the Foundry is shutting down forever tomorrow. One even went as far to blame me for trolling chat. Later during a Dragon Run, many were unaware that speed boosting is all but gone in M16...
We few here in the game's forums, will not be the ones complaining as loud in game chat come the 23rd.
Module 16 is going to hit that rock so hard, these players are living under, it will break, and they will believe the apocalypse has come. It is their fault for not being part of this community here on the forums. I applaud everyone for being here, yes even the ones I tend to disagree with from time to time.
This is a magnificent post. [I have edited it down I hope that's ok?]
The point being that what % of the player base know this is happening?
I mean, this would be very apocalyptic if I logged on and suddenly found the game was completely different and I had to redo all my powers, feats, stats, boon, companions, mounts, insignia etc
Comments
I am not covering the YP as much as testing areas that maybe subject to changes like; Well of Dragons, Ravenloft, Chult, etc..
Why no overhaul at the ZEN Shop? Why do we have still so many overpriced useless items in ZEN Shop? Do you think the last "great offered package" for 15K was made for the majority? Really?
Spidey
Besides, what overhaul do they need to make for the zen shop anyways. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy zen, or buy stuff from the zen shop. Who the hell knows what they are thinking when they make zen packs. There is little reason to buy them aside from the pay to win Dragonborn pack. And that's only because its got that ridiculously great value "30 slot bag for every character on your account" bonus. There seems to be a real schizophrenic mentality on value there.
So if a modul is made for new players and casuals, bc they bring the money, why does ZEN shop nothing to do with it? Makes no sense, does it?
Has nothing to do with "schizphrenic mentality on value". Its just a simple question, bc kreatyve said its was made for casuals/new players and casuals bringing the most money.
Spidey
It took YEARS to remove the insane scam that was the blood rubies pack on the Zen Store. Now that that the stones of health are the trash drop of lockboxes, look at their prices on the Zen Store. 500/1500 Zen, that's absolutly ridiculous. 1 and 1/2 coalescent for a 30k item that drop on the low tiers of lockboxes rewards.
I'm not even sure they have a clue of how much of a scam some items are on the Zen Store, based on the time they took to remove the Blood Rubies. Or maybe is it intended? :thinking:
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
A casual will get to the point where he thinks about to spend money ( fancy stuff mostly). But a casual will never spend 15k or 20k for a package.
NW is not Fortnite. I believe we still have the pareto principle in NW.
You wanna make money with casuals? Overhaul your ZEN shop. Lower your prices. Bring more fancy stuff ( customs, fancy mounts etc.) for a reasonable price.
Atm and even with the new module there is no reason to believe that casuals will spend a good ammount of money in this game. Maybe im wrong. We will see how your marketing guys are working in mod 16 and what they offering in the future.
The Pareto principle states that roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.
Can be used to estimate the distribution of income and wealth among the population.
Beep Boop
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
I am a casual player.
I am prepared to spend real life money on Neverwinter.
I have disposable income.
Currently there is NOTHING I would buy from the Zen market - I am your demographic and a potential customer.
I have walked into your shop of my own volition and walked out without buying anything - this should tell you something
But I say now, as I have said earlier, that 15-20k for a package in Zen-market is outside the frame for most of us "casual" players, as many have stated are not going to spend this amount of real money on this.
As someone said earlier, the prices in Zen-market must go down if Cryptic wants us to buy from there, that's just my opinion on this.
As it is now, I enjoy the game, I buy nothing and progress really slowly with my 1 character and it's okay for now. when the day comes that I see, that the prices overall are to my favor, then I will decide if I'm willing to spend my money but I'm realistic, I think that day may never come
If I'm insulting anyone with those words then I apologize that was not my intentsion.
These types are exactly the ones massively overrepresented in the forum population which itself is a tiny fraction of the playing population, and these seem to be the people the devs listen to.
If you're a casual and have been for a decent time, this mod is an utter disaster. Everything you've played for 6 years for becomes utterly useless, levelling up and regearing all your characters when the game is less fun by about 90% just doesn't appeal. The dishonest false flagging of "we don't want players to mess themselves up with bad builds" while nerfing everybody back to what would be a really bad build in M15 and claiming to increase build diversity while actually reducing the number of viable builds (in some cases to zero) is just obscene. Bear in mind some people don't like some playstyles, so if you force that playstyle on a class or path, that can completely eliminate your options.
How it will play out for new players who haven't seen M15 I'm not sure.
It only is your weapons and armor and jewelry that probably will be completely replaced due to level 80. Those are more or less up for replacement each mod anyways, so nothing new there.
They did add more growth room on top of insignias, enchantments and companions, but most of what you have already gained retains its value.
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
But no, I do not "like" M16. There are bits and pieces I think are OK, or even an improvement, but overall, it is not a good Module as far as I am concerned, and it certainly is not aimed at me, or other people with BiS characters.
The people I know who really like Mod 16 fall into one of the following three categories:
Most people I know either hate it, or dislike most of it, although they may think it has some good aspects. There are some who really like the general idea behind the changes, but dislike the implementation. Some them are cautiously optimistic that the worst flaws will get fixed within the next few months, similar to what happened back with Mod 6, but as for actually liking most of Mod 16? Nah....not most of the people I know.
Now I understand that players typically don't understand all the details of what goes into making a game or what it takes to run an MMO but seriously you can't ignore 90% of them and only listen to a few fan boys who will always say positive things when they know things are really not all that positive.
The way I'm looking at this new mod is Cryptic needs to win the players over.. Sure new players who don't know anything will come in after mod 16 goes live and will play it completely unaware that there were even changes. But as far as the cash cow veterans go, taking a huge HAMSTER on them is not doing anything to get them to want to put some more cash down. With all the competition out there what keeps a cash cow player in NW when there are other games competing for their money? A player with lots of disposable cash isn't going to stick around because its loosely based on dnd.
Cryptic needs to convince me that I should spend more money. I have spent quite a bit over the years and don't regret it but they really need to convince me that its still worth doing. So far I don't see it with how things have been going.
In the early days of CoH, one man in Cryptic had the vision of how he wanted the game played. The players had a lot more fun doing it differently so ever more nerfs were introduced to make you play "his way". The game was dying, Cryptic sold it, the devs had more independence and produced a great game for many more years.
What happened to it ? eventually the devs and the publisher fell out and it closed while still profitable.
Having an (as yet unreleased, but should be soon) MMO as a sort of day job, I have some idea about what it takes to make a game and (the CoH devs published some of the stats) the pitfalls of treating the forum population as representative of the player base.
I can't see myself ever spending any more real money on this game without a massive change in attitude from the devs. I don't feel it is playable in M16 without VIP and if zen is going to take several months to arrive via the ZAX and my VIP runs out, I will have to wait until it comes through (2 months so far).
Again.. thats just my conjecture.. its as valid as anyone's I suppose.
I highly doubt they are doing anything for any sort of majority or not.. but to me, with such a small staff, it seems pretty apparent, they cant continue operating this game and make it anywhere near balanced with current staffing levels.. so hence, instead of hiring more staff, they are just reducing what is needed going forward.
Zen market is complete waste of time to dicuss, whatever incentives there would be to make it viable again, will also hurt players as well. Removing items from AH to stop this so called endless looping (which I have my doubts this is as bad as people decribe the problem, as it takes a very long time to recoup the zen now) will make zen just more needed, not less, now everyone and thier grandmother will be posting for it.. and still no reason to sell it. or by reducing AD income by loads (which again hurts new players the most) ect ect.. so many "ways" to fix it , but most of them come at the expense at alot of the player base.
The only way to have fixed in in reality.. was to restart the game and make a neverwinter 2.
Everyone can continue blaming it till they are blue in the face... but most of the "fixes" I hear are just horrendous.. when in reality, those who spend cash are the penalized ones and those who do not spend cash.. seem to come out ahead. That makes no sense to me.
Cash spenders should always come out a bit ahead in any f2p model.. whats the point of spending cash ? In fact this game already bends pretty far over to the other side (more then alot of other mmos ive played) where f2ps get everything , just have to wait it out to get it.
Thats up to you.. so right now, the only incentive to spend cash.. is because of the wait. If there is no wait, what is the incentive?
You get SO little in return for selling zen.. event making it 1k to 1.. wouldnt be worth it to me.
Just the same old power creep, refinement creep, throwing out the old system so people have to invest heavily in all aspects of the new one, the usual failure to address longstanding problems (or large new ones like the complete mess mod 15 made of masterwork by failing to incorporate +1 items properly), and total disregard of what players want. In sum, the wrong answers to the wrong questions. Nice environment design, though.
If new players and casual players and veterans are all displeased....who's left?
I have some experience with organizing on a large scale for a self-important, demanding and - dare I say it - whiny demographic, so I can relate to how the dev team must feel about some of our complaints. But if the play testers' input made mod 16 so much better than it would have been otherwise, I truly cannot imagine how awful it must have been without them.
Module 16 is going to hit that rock so hard, these players are living under, it will break, and they will believe the apocalypse has come. It is their fault for not being part of this community here on the forums. I applaud everyone for being here, yes even the ones I tend to disagree with from time to time.
Why did I respond with this here? Because this is just another thing that players won't be aware of until the day they do and they react by pushing the uninstall button.
The point being that what % of the player base know this is happening?
I mean, this would be very apocalyptic if I logged on and suddenly found the game was completely different and I had to redo all my powers, feats, stats, boon, companions, mounts, insignia etc
Thats going to HAMSTER well hurt!