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Is The Zen Exchange (ZAX) Going From bad to worse?

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  • wowmiledi#8665 wowmiledi Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    > But that's just my take on it.

    That is not a problem, problem is that game have unstopble praying bots, that focus 90% stones on players who use this bug ! this player allways on line for Zen! One step from administration with this problem can save this game!
  • wowmiledi#8665 wowmiledi Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    > @greywynd said:
    > Wards gained from invoking are BtA.

    yes and that is not a problem, stones that make from this catalist are going for sale! so i wana say that catalist is BtA but the stone that you UP by this catal is not BtA and going for sale.

    Sorry for my English.
    Post edited by wowmiledi#8665 on
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,244 Arc User
    Take a long look at Star Trek and Champions please. The AH is gold based, the only way to make the gold is playing the game. The gold is NOT directly linked to the cash zen. The zen is not backlogged in their Zax. Raising the AH cap just creates inflation and items cost more.

    Simple answer; convert the AH to gold base. Problem solved.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • wowmiledi#8665 wowmiledi Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    > @sandukutupu said:
    > Simple answer; convert the AH to gold base. Problem solved.


    The problem is a huge line for zen! This line for the most part consists from prayer bots! who use prayer from thousands accounts and than make stones from catalis for sale by AD in market. First part of AD go fo for sale, second part go in line for Zen! from this Zen Thousands account buy premium for year !!! and open boxes!!! profit !!!
    That is all what you all must know what the trouble is with Zen market !
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,997 Arc User
    The only "problem" with the zen exchange is people aren't feeding zen into it. Zen in the exchange only comes from other players.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • wowmiledi#8665 wowmiledi Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    > @greywynd said:
    > The only "problem" with the zen exchange is people aren't feeding zen into it. Zen in the exchange only comes from other players.

    this is also true, but this is the second reason, and this is the reason for the actions that I described above! 14 lvl of stone on the black market is 3-4 times cheaper than to collect it by buying a catalyst in a game store. And no one from the administration reacts to this, there is free trade.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,087 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Too much demand to exchange AD for zen. With each account able to make 100K AD a day, the demand is constant.

    Not enough supply of zen. There is little reason now to buy zen for cash and convert to AD. Mod 16 should alleviate the problem.

    Introducing new products takes time and planning. Don't think there is much devs can do now other than injecting zen into the system, if they even do it at all.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,196 Arc User
    Before mod 12b, people were advised to run 2 dungeons, 2 skirmishes and try to get 24k AF refined a day. Some used an alt to get more. Now, people are advised to refine 100k a day. The changes negatively affected a small number of people with multiple chars (myself included) but increased the earnings of a much larger group of people, resulting in far more AD being created than was previously the case. These changes were intended to curb people running multiple characters without hurting those with more typical playstyles... but they worked too well.

    All of this is on top of an economy already bloated by past issues and lacking decent AD sinks. Sinks that would be used repeatedly by the majority, rather than occasionally and by a select few.

    The ZAX is also traditionally sluggish in the months before Jubilee and just prior to the release of a new mod. The coming module has so many sweeping changes, people are exercising caution in buying or even unsure if they will continue.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    Take a long look at Star Trek and Champions please. The AH is gold based, the only way to make the gold is playing the game. The gold is NOT directly linked to the cash zen. The zen is not backlogged in their Zax. Raising the AH cap just creates inflation and items cost more.

    Simple answer; convert the AH to gold base. Problem solved.

    The zen IS backlogged in Star Trek Online. The reason the trading there is healthier is because ships are different than mounts. Many star trek fans want new ships and are willing to spend cash to get them. This doesn't work in NW because mounts are pretty useless outside stat bonus, that's it. In STO the ship is half of your playing and impacts your bridge officer loadouts. Also dillithum is required in STO for end game content so it has a very healthy sink in place for advancement. NW does not have this and the sinks that are currently in place are easily worked around with far cheaper results.

    Raising the rough AD refinement cap would cause inflation. However raising the ZAX cap would not. If you think raising the ZAX cap would cause inflation then you don't understand anything about economics.

  • cherryman1cherryman1 Member Posts: 338 Arc User

    exgardian said:

    I like that suggestion above, making all items purchased in Zen Store plus items purchased by vouchers/discounts/events with BoA status, except items acquired by opening lockboxes.

    This would be a good first step.

    The consequence of this would be:
    The availability of pwards and coals for AD on AH would drop sharply, and likely the prices for those would increase significantly. This would in particular hit the new and casual players and make the game way less accessible to them.

    And lessened pward/coal sales would directly hit Cryptic's income too.

    The cure probably would be way worse for the game than the original problem.

    That wouldn't be true. People would be forced to use the exchange for their AD purchases unless they were buying items for themselves. This would stop all of the people who are using the exchange to flip items for others and make the exchange backlog pretty much disappear over night. New players that want items would be able to get them with the exchange. Who would want to get wards to upgrade enchantments to sell for AD when enchantments sell for less than what you can buy on the market. This one thing would make it so that market manipulation by exchanging AD to Zen to Items that sell for higher AD than the exchange would stop. This would fix the backlog and then you would have players able to exchange AD for Zen to get their VIP or wards.
    Guild Leader: Under the Influence
    Yule (Barb): 54k : Siren (TR): 54k : Torun (DC): 50k : Siren OP (OP): 54k : Siren SW (SW): 52k : Modern (F): 53k : Cherry1 (CW) : 42k Siren HR (HR): 51k
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Member Posts: 338 Arc User

    Take a long look at Star Trek and Champions please. The AH is gold based, the only way to make the gold is playing the game. The gold is NOT directly linked to the cash zen. The zen is not backlogged in their Zax. Raising the AH cap just creates inflation and items cost more.

    Simple answer; convert the AH to gold base. Problem solved.

    They have items in each side with equal want for both players that pay and those that put time into the game. That is why they have a balance. We have an inbalance because players can in an infinite loop make more AD through exchanging AD to Zen. That is the issue and won't be fixed until that is addressed.
    Guild Leader: Under the Influence
    Yule (Barb): 54k : Siren (TR): 54k : Torun (DC): 50k : Siren OP (OP): 54k : Siren SW (SW): 52k : Modern (F): 53k : Cherry1 (CW) : 42k Siren HR (HR): 51k
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Member Posts: 338 Arc User

    > But that's just my take on it.



    That is not a problem, problem is that game have unstopble praying bots, that focus 90% stones on players who use this bug ! this player allways on line for Zen! One step from administration with this problem can save this game!

    That isn't the issue. That accounts for so few of those that a player who does that still has to get wards from the auction house or Zen store. All of the items from the Auction house are from the Zen store so that is the issue. Forcing more people to get wards from the zen store will just make the exchange worse since it will drive up want for the wards and push more people to exchange AD for Zen. If they lowered the wards value or want in game they would help the issue with the exchange.
    Guild Leader: Under the Influence
    Yule (Barb): 54k : Siren (TR): 54k : Torun (DC): 50k : Siren OP (OP): 54k : Siren SW (SW): 52k : Modern (F): 53k : Cherry1 (CW) : 42k Siren HR (HR): 51k
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,541 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    > But that's just my take on it.



    That is not a problem, problem is that game have unstopble praying bots, that focus 90% stones on players who use this bug ! this player allways on line for Zen! One step from administration with this problem can save this game!

    That isn't the issue. That accounts for so few of those that a player who does that still has to get wards from the auction house or Zen store. All of the items from the Auction house are from the Zen store so that is the issue. Forcing more people to get wards from the zen store will just make the exchange worse since it will drive up want for the wards and push more people to exchange AD for Zen. If they lowered the wards value or want in game they would help the issue with the exchange.
    There are people who do not go for Zen store to get ward because it takes too long. (Group A)
    There are people who line up in Zax to get Zen for their personal use (Group B ).
    There are people who line up in Zax to get Zen so that they can re-sell stuff to AH. (Group C)
    If there is no/low incentive for the Group C to buy stuff from Zen store to re-sell, the theory is the Group C people will not try to line up in Zax at all.

    If the amount of Zax offer of Group C is greater than Group A, Zax wait time will be improved.
    If the amount of Zax offer of Group C is significantly greater than Group A + Group B, Zax can be below 500.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Wards gained from invoking are BtA.

    The wards are BtA, yes, but if they are used to make high-rank enchants those enchants are unbound and can be sold.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,244 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    greywynd said:

    Wards gained from invoking are BtA.

    The wards are BtA, yes, but if they are used to make high-rank enchants those enchants are unbound and can be sold.

    But the lesser enchants never sell for much more than 150K AD. The coalescent ward sells between 500K and 650K. Even if you double up the wards they would get you a moderate at best 250K AD. With the direction the game is heading on these enchantments, I imagine these prices will be dropping a bit.

    wb-cenders.gif
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User

    Take a long look at Star Trek and Champions please. The AH is gold based, the only way to make the gold is playing the game. The gold is NOT directly linked to the cash zen. The zen is not backlogged in their Zax. Raising the AH cap just creates inflation and items cost more.

    Simple answer; convert the AH to gold base. Problem solved.

    They have items in each side with equal want for both players that pay and those that put time into the game. That is why they have a balance. We have an inbalance because players can in an infinite loop make more AD through exchanging AD to Zen. That is the issue and won't be fixed until that is addressed.
    I think you're agreeing.

    There are two fundamental issues

    1) while the AH uses AD, people can get the turn-to-Zen currency in massive amounts compared to the daily refining limit, with a lucky drop or a good lockbox open.

    2) People turn Zen into items, and the items into *more zen-currency than the items cost*, and then back into Zen. Making a profit at every stage.

    STO (and Champions I assume, but I don't play Champions) get around this by making the AH currency one that you *cannot* turn into Zen, and by making the turn-to-Zen currency one limited by playing the game and daily conversions.

    Basically, anyone who has Zen can turn it into a valuable in-game currency but not an AH-viable currency. If they want AH-currency, they buy sellable items in the Zen store and sell them for AH currency.... and then they *can't* turn that back into Zen at a profit.

    Neverwinter's "that lockbox drop got me something I can sell for $200 worth of Zen" model is a problem. So is "I can spend $6 of Zen and sell an item for $10 of Zen if I just wait"
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    38 million backlogged AD. New record. I bet it will hit 100 million in the next 3 to 4 months. I wish I would be proven wrong but lets wait and see..
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,218 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Queue probably will drop a bit with mod 16.
    * There will be a big rush for new stuff, which should lead to more Zen being committed to the system and a part of that will go to the ZAX
    * The exceptional situation we have now where people dare not put money into the game because of worries about what mod 16 will bring is gone. Some will leave and some will stay, and those staying can spend money on game again.
    * AD income per hour will be reduced with mod 16

    Whether such a drop will make the queue significantly shorter, or whether it will stay short remains to see.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    Queue probably will drop a bit with mod 16.
    * There will be a big rush for new stuff, which should lead to more Zen being committed to the system and a part of that will go to the ZAX
    * The exceptional situation we have now where people dare not put money into the game because of worries about what mod 16 will bring is gone. Some will leave and some will stay, and those staying can spend money on game again.
    * AD income per hour will be reduced with mod 16

    Whether such a drop will make the queue significantly shorter, or whether it will stay short remains to see.

    You are right that the backlog tends to drop a little when ever there is a new mod going live. However; there is another factor involved. I believe that sometimes the drop isn't due to zen being traded but instead players are pulling their AD back off the exchange to spend on AH. So it isn't that players are all of a sudden dropping cash into the game, sure some might be but I don't think its as significant as it might seem.

  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User


    * There will be a big rush for new stuff, which should lead to more Zen being committed to the system and a part of that will go to the ZAX

    Sure, there will be some increase, but I'm not really seeing a "big rush".
    • People with R14 bonding runestones will want to upgrade those to R15. This will mean an increase in demand for the new MoP (rank 7). You can earn those through the Challenge campaigns or buy them in the Bazaar, so that might mean quite a bit of AD spent, and perhaps some of that will be pulled from the queue. This will also mean an increased demand for Preservation wards, so that might mean some Zen sales.
    • Weapon enchants, armor enchants, regular enchants and non-bonding runestones. While some players will spend AD, RP and wards on upgrading those, others will consider it not worth the effort, partly because of the 1%:500 to 1%:1000 change, so I am not expecting a "rush" to upgrade those.
    • There might be some new additions to the Zen store, like a new BiS companion, so again some Zen sales.
    • New lockbox probably means some key sales, but those who open a ton of boxes presumably bought their keys during the last discount event and are just waiting.
    • Companion upgrades are a big one - many players will want to switch out their companions and upgrade from Rare to Epic or Epic to Legendary. Opening lockboxes will give some players tokens - others will spend AD, which might shrink the queue.

    Quite frankly, I suspect that in a couple of months someone at Cryptic will ask "Why did we not see the expected big jump in Zen sales with the release of the Undermountain module?"
    Hoping for improvements...
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    Well the wait for me was pretty much exactly 2 months, got my zen today that I put the purchase order for Feb 12, too long.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,997 Arc User
    If waiting on other players takes to long, buy direct.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    If waiting on other players takes to long, buy direct.

    Not giving them a penny atm, they're wrecking the game with M16 as far as I'm concerned, I'm not paying them to do it.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,541 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    greywynd said:

    If waiting on other players takes to long, buy direct.

    Not giving them a penny atm, they're wrecking the game with M16 as far as I'm concerned, I'm not paying them to do it.
    If you don't want to pay, you wait. I always plan it (all these years) as if I won't be able to get it until a year later.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User

    greywynd said:

    If waiting on other players takes to long, buy direct.

    Not giving them a penny atm, they're wrecking the game with M16 as far as I'm concerned, I'm not paying them to do it.
    If you don't want to pay, you wait. I always plan it (all these years) as if I won't be able to get it until a year later.
    I wasn't expecting the wait to go up from one month to two, but I can now afford VIP which I'll need given the upcoming changes.
  • valynstarfirevalynstarfire Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 100 Arc User
    Here is my suggestion. Put Coal Wards, Pres Ward Packs, and 1 Mo. VIP in the Wonderous Bazaar at what would be 550 ad per Zen rate (on my phone and can't check actual prices). That should alleviate a good chunk of the demand, but still give an incentive to use Zen for these items, especially since the Zen market typically has more sales than Wonderous Bazaar.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    Here is my suggestion. Put Coal Wards, Pres Ward Packs, and 1 Mo. VIP in the Wonderous Bazaar at what would be 550 ad per Zen rate (on my phone and can't check actual prices). That should alleviate a good chunk of the demand, but still give an incentive to use Zen for these items, especially since the Zen market typically has more sales than Wonderous Bazaar.

    It ONLY has a high rate because players are able to sell zen packs on the AH for more AD than the ZAX. If you make it where zen packs are BTA then you remove the incentive for players to buy packs. If you put them on the WB at a set price do you remove rewards for invoking or dungeon rewards too? Because if you don't do that players will just undercut the WB prices on the AH. Just look at enchantment stones. You can buy them off the NPC but players sell on AH for cheaper so no one buys from NPC.

    The thing is if you remove the rewards from dungeons then you further reduce the incentive to run dungeons. Your solution is ignoring the reason players are buying zen. You can't just assume they will continue to buy zen if they were to introduce your solution. You have to understand WHY players are buying zen, which is selling packs on the AH.

    In other words your solution isn't a solution.
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Currently there's a "Spring Currency Sale" for Zen in Neverwinter I believe this is the first time I've not been tempted, even at "up to 25% more", to purchase Zen...

    For me there are just too many unknowns pertaining to the roll out of Mod16 for me to continue to invest in the game at this point. If this is the last "up to 20% more" sale, ever offered by PWE so be it... at this point the only question for me is whether or not I'll continue to regularly play (and invest in) Neverwinter or whether all of the pending changes are going to alter the game so drastically that I can no longer continue to enjoy playing.

    My 2¢
    DD~
  • havlockehavlocke Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    dionchi said:

    Currently there's a "Spring Currency Sale" for Zen in Neverwinter I believe this is the first time I've not been tempted, even at "up to 25% more", to purchase Zen...

    For me there are just too many unknowns pertaining to the roll out of Mod16 for me to continue to invest in the game at this point. If this is the last "up to 20% more" sale, ever offered by PWE so be it... at this point the only question for me is whether or not I'll continue to regularly play (and invest in) Neverwinter or whether all of the pending changes are going to alter the game so drastically that I can no longer continue to enjoy playing.

    My 2¢

    I wouldn't worry about it. There will always be another special. That's about the only constant with Cryptic. And I can't recommend to anybody to buy or convert or invest in any NWO atm. There is too much up in the air with this Mod. I'm really really hoping it works but I suspect a bug ridden mess.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    havlocke said:

    dionchi said:

    Currently there's a "Spring Currency Sale" for Zen in Neverwinter I believe this is the first time I've not been tempted, even at "up to 25% more", to purchase Zen...

    For me there are just too many unknowns pertaining to the roll out of Mod16 for me to continue to invest in the game at this point. If this is the last "up to 20% more" sale, ever offered by PWE so be it... at this point the only question for me is whether or not I'll continue to regularly play (and invest in) Neverwinter or whether all of the pending changes are going to alter the game so drastically that I can no longer continue to enjoy playing.

    My 2¢

    I wouldn't worry about it. There will always be another special. That's about the only constant with Cryptic. And I can't recommend to anybody to buy or convert or invest in any NWO atm. There is too much up in the air with this Mod. I'm really really hoping it works but I suspect a bug ridden mess.
    I don't think they really care if things are broken or lots of bugs are still in the mod when it goes live. They know players who love the game will put up with it. Even those who complain that have attachments to the game will put up with it. There have been bugs in dungeons for years that were never resolved. I think this has given them confidence that player will put up with broken powers and bugs because they are not ready to break up with the game yet. They hold out hope that things will work out.
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