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OFFICIAL M16: Rewards

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  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,945Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    bobo#5090 said:

    adinosii said:


    This is HAMSTER. We are all gonna be the same.

    I think that is actually a part of the design. By making sure that two characters of the same class and similar IL have the same stats, same boons, same feats and use the same encounters, they become interchangable and it doesn't matter who you are playing with..

    Who knows, maybe things are designed like this to cut down on "elitism" ?

    How very socialistic of them LOL
    On second thought, there is perhaps another reason. Some of the upcoming changes make the "catching-up" process a lot shorter. Consider Power points for example. You used to have to play quite a lot to get all 124 points, but now you get all your powers to max rank right away. There is a considerable grind if you want to get all your boons to maximum rank, but quite frankly, the bonuses from the boons are not really a gamechanger - just a welcome addition.

    In some ways this is fine - it makes it easier to get into the game - however, there is another side to that.

    What this means is that it is now much, much easier to buy your way to the end-game. Level to 80 in a week, buy a ton of Zen and buy top-notch gear. You will be "interchangable" with any veteran - no need to grind for months or years to get everything. (Never mind that you may not really know how to play your character....I assume that's considered irrelevant).

    It is almost as if the changes were meant to appeal to a new crowd of players, who wants to get to the top ASAP and is willing to spend money to get there.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • malheur2080malheur2080 Posts: 110Member Arc User
    On the other side 13 maps becomes useless, like all the pre 70 leveling locations, except you will walk to this locations twice a year for MW materials. We all will run in the same uniform like many Mods ago. I really can't see where the longlivity of this game will come from, when they make all lv. 70 content obsolete. Doing quests weekly for 15 companion Upgrade tokens isn't a thing what will keep me playing this game. Mod 13 and Mod 14 with the hunt system and diversity of gear have been awesome compared to this what we are getting now. New players will skip all this content, because they will reach lv. 80 before they have finished the sharandar campaign and will have better gear as something you could get from playing any other pre lv. 80 content. I don't even know, what's the point to go on upgrading Echantments, if they wont do any big difference in stats for the time/money investment you have spend. With the scaling they wont even benefit you in lv. 70 content.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    On the other side 13 maps becomes useless, like all the pre 70 leveling locations, except you will walk to this locations twice a year for MW materials. We all will run in the same uniform like many Mods ago. I really can't see where the longlivity of this game will come from, when they make all lv. 70 content obsolete. Doing quests weekly for 15 companion Upgrade tokens isn't a thing what will keep me playing this game. Mod 13 and Mod 14 with the hunt system and diversity of gear have been awesome compared to this what we are getting now. New players will skip all this content, because they will reach lv. 80 before they have finished the sharandar campaign and will have better gear as something you could get from playing any other pre lv. 80 content. I don't even know, what's the point to go on upgrading Echantments, if they wont do any big difference in stats for the time/money investment you have spend. With the scaling they wont even benefit you in lv. 70 content.

    The game worked just fine back in mod 0. It'll be fine in mod 16+ without much of the content from mods 1-15 being absolutely relevant. What matters is that new content is being added and is high quality, not that everyone has the need to run 5 years worth of talent form loading the game.

    You know what's a good way to turn away new players? "Ugh, there is WAY too much here for me to ever do." It's the same reason why people don't pick up manga that have 800 chapters!
  • malheur2080malheur2080 Posts: 110Member Arc User

    The game worked just fine back in mod 0. It'll be fine in mod 16+ without much of the content from mods 1-15 being absolutely relevant. What matters is that new content is being added and is high quality, not that everyone has the need to run 5 years worth of talent form loading the game.

    You know what's a good way to turn away new players? "Ugh, there is WAY too much here for me to ever do." It's the same reason why people don't pick up manga that have 800 chapters!

    In Mod 0 there was no obsolete content. Very bad comparison from your side. What is a high quality for you? Skipping 99% of the content after 2-3 weeks in a game? I have quit at mod 3 release, joined between mod 8 to mod 9 and went all the way to be now finished with all modules on 2 avatars. Bought only SKT and CTA campaign on the second avatar. No way you have to do them over 5 years. What's the point to play a game once a while and always only the endgame without any achievements by skipping 99% of the game?

  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    The game worked just fine back in mod 0. It'll be fine in mod 16+ without much of the content from mods 1-15 being absolutely relevant. What matters is that new content is being added and is high quality, not that everyone has the need to run 5 years worth of talent form loading the game.

    You know what's a good way to turn away new players? "Ugh, there is WAY too much here for me to ever do." It's the same reason why people don't pick up manga that have 800 chapters!

    In Mod 0 there was no obsolete content. Very bad comparison from your side. What is a high quality for you? Skipping 99% of the content after 2-3 weeks in a game? I have quit at mod 3 release, joined between mod 8 to mod 9 and went all the way to be now finished with all modules on 2 avatars. Bought only SKT and CTA campaign on the second avatar. No way you have to do them over 5 years. What's the point to play a game once a while and always only the endgame without any achievements by skipping 99% of the game?

    Mod 16 is 100% of the game, not 1% of the game: it is what the Dev team is spending time working on. It is 100% of their advertising budget. It is what they are balancing for.

    Past modules set the context that Mod 16 interacts with and can be an asset to Neverwinter-but the moment past modules instead become shackles around the current game's legs, that becomes a *problem.* When you have a game that has so much content that new players feel like they can't catch up, and therefore do not continue playing, that is a problem.

    Obviously, you can quibble at the margin about how best to address that issue. But it shouldn't take months of gameplay just to fully experience the primary advertised content of the game. Maybe in a subscription model that makes sense, and it makes sense in a single player RPG context (though "months" is off-more that in order to use the new content you go through all the old content), but in the kind of free to play marketing oriented framework of NWO, you need to make sure that newcomers feel like they can participate.

    After all-all of the level 5-60 content is absolutely useless, but no one complains about that. This whole thing is just a sense of misaligned expectations.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 436Member Arc User
    edited March 2019

    On the other side 13 maps becomes useless, like all the pre 70 leveling locations, except you will walk to this locations twice a year for MW materials. We all will run in the same uniform like many Mods ago. I really can't see where the longlivity of this game will come from, when they make all lv. 70 content obsolete. Doing quests weekly for 15 companion Upgrade tokens isn't a thing what will keep me playing this game. Mod 13 and Mod 14 with the hunt system and diversity of gear have been awesome compared to this what we are getting now. New players will skip all this content, because they will reach lv. 80 before they have finished the sharandar campaign and will have better gear as something you could get from playing any other pre lv. 80 content. I don't even know, what's the point to go on upgrading Echantments, if they wont do any big difference in stats for the time/money investment you have spend. With the scaling they wont even benefit you in lv. 70 content.

    I completely empathize with your dismay over the elimination of campaign relevancy. I hope, in the future, they come up with a system to upgrade old gear, so that it can be competitive with the new gear if the player puts the time & effort into upgrading it. Also, who is gonna want to run Cradle of the Death God now? Its ampules only upgrade obsolete gear. Now.. if they made it so that one ampule could be exchanged for a Major Garment upgrade which, when applied to any pants or shirt in the game, gave +1000 power/+4000 health, players would run it to upgrade their Undermountain clothing, or to sell those upgrades.
  • malheur2080malheur2080 Posts: 110Member Arc User
    @theycallmetomu
    I will not argue with you, because we have an absolut different view of the things, which makes us wanna stay in this game. I like to play it daily and have thing to do not only in one location of the game. You, how i see prefer to play only for a month and then pause till the next Module arrives or be able to skip years of game content and still be able to play the newest content without any affort needed. But if the developers decide to do it this way, they have to deal with all the things that will follow. 1-2 monthes full servers and then 4 monthes dead game.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    @theycallmetomu
    I will not argue with you, because we have an absolut different view of the things, which makes us wanna stay in this game. I like to play it daily and have thing to do not only in one location of the game. You, how i see prefer to play only for a month and then pause till the next Module arrives or be able to skip years of game content and still be able to play the newest content without any affort needed. But if the developers decide to do it this way, they have to deal with all the things that will follow. 1-2 monthes full servers and then 4 monthes dead game.

    For whatever it's worth, I'm *not* encouraging *my* play style.

    I actually dislike Neverwinter pretty intensely for not being NWN3 and have deep seething rage. The only thing I like about the game, aside from the new content of each module, is the professions system, which is more of an economy simulation aspect. But A.) Mod 16 has NONE of that and actively invalidates that part and B.) I don't think that part of the game is particularly compelling in terms of bringing in new players.

    My point is, I actively argue against my own personal preferences in many cases, because I don't think my personal preferences are good for the bottom line of the game.

    That being said, you could make the argument that maybe I'm encouraging a certain course of action because I WANT dead servers, because that means that Neverwinter'll be shut down, thus freeing up the IP for a NWN3 type game, and therefore I should not be trusted! I sometimes wonder if that's subconsciously true.

    But at least on a conscious level, I try and avoid being disingenuous or actively recommending bad ideas.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 436Member Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Here is a way to spice up character creation, add some diversity, and reward frequent online play. Each of the patron god/dieties confers a unique blessing bonus, earned through invocation:


    Amaunator - 10% Glory-Exp Gain , 1% AP gain
    Chauntea - 4000 Health , 4% Heal potion boost
    Correllion - 1% Accuracy , 3% companion power
    Kelemvor - 1% armor penetration , 1% Health Steal *
    Moradin - 1% Defense , 3% companion HP
    Oghma - 1% Awareness , 1% recovery
    Selune - 2% movement , 2% Stamina
    Silvanus - 1% combat advantage , 2% control resist
    Sune - 1% critical resist , 2% incoming healing
    Tempus - 1% critical strike , 1% critical severity
    Torm - 1% Power , 2% Control
    Tymora - 1% deflection , 10% Gold Gain



    HOW THE INVOCATION SYSTEM WORKS:

    Patron deity is chosen at character creation, and each character begins play with 10 invocation points. Whenever a character invokes, they gain 1 invocation point. A character loses one invocation point at the start of each day. If they did not invoke the day before, they lose an additional invocation point. The maximum number of points is capped at 15. Invocation points measure favor with the patron deity and determine the blessings they bestow upon your character:

    At 5 points, the character begins receiving Ardent coins each time they invoke.
    At 10 points the character gains the 1st blessing in the list above.
    At 15 points the character also receives the 2nd blessing in the list above.


    Patron deity can be changed at any time by donating 5 gold to Aralynn at the campfire in Protector's Enclave. After switching, invocation points are set to zero. NOTE: The current items in the Ardent coin store should have their costs cut in half. A new range of top end items should be added to it.


    * HEALTH STEAL: Whenever an At-Will power does damage, the percent chance of dealing an extra 50% damage. An amount equal to the extra damage transfers to the damage-dealer as health gain.
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • wisper2048wisper2048 Posts: 181Member Arc User

    Here is a way to spice up character creation, add some diversity, and reward frequent online play. Each of the patron god/dieties confers a unique blessing bonus, earned through invocation:

    ...

    IMHO bad idea right now, since deity choice has been purely cosmetic, so it is chosen to fit characters story. There will be need for something like Zen faith change token required to min/max build.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,945Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Here is a way to spice up character creation, add some diversity, and reward frequent online play. Each of the patron god/dieties confers a unique blessing bonus, earned through invocation:

    I like the idea, as such - however, I cannot see it fitting in with the current model of removing choices that introduce significant variability and makes the spreadsheets more complicated.

    Now, if something like this ever got implemented, we should be able to which god we pray to...however, I would add something like "the full bonus will not kick in until you have invoked 100 times since your last god switch.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    adinosii said:

    Here is a way to spice up character creation, add some diversity, and reward frequent online play. Each of the patron god/dieties confers a unique blessing bonus, earned through invocation:

    I like the idea, as such - however, I cannot see it fitting in with the current model of removing choices that introduce significant variability and makes the spreadsheets more complicated.

    Now, if something like this ever got implemented, we should be able to which god we pray to...however, I would add something like "the full bonus will not kick in until you have invoked 100 times since your last god switch.
    For Mod 17 (or some half-way module), they should have a whole plotline revolving around the assorted deities. Each god has its own questline, you can change gods. But I strongly discourage increasing the importance of invoking: while encouraging people to log on and actually play is good, encouraging people to have an army of toons and log on just to invoke then log off or character switch basically does nothing but add to server load. Then again, a character specific buff (as opposed to RP et al) isn't going to encourage people to NOT play the characters.

    But one other thing to remember is that before, invoking was "invoke every day-oops your missed it there go all your celestial tokens" and people were understandably distraught! So the "It gives a bonus, but it decays when you don't invoke" might be the wrong direction to go in either way.
  • dressrobadressroba Posts: 70Member Arc User
    not sure if this is the right spot to report this !!!

    the protege head gear piece buff is bugged !!!

    https://imgur.com/a/bVWf1j6
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,945Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Can this enchantment and the Anniversary one PLEASE be made refinable from R14 to R15?


    Make NWO great again, please....
  • juergeng123juergeng123 Posts: 160Member Arc User
    adinosii said:

    Can this enchantment and the Anniversary one PLEASE be made refinable from R14 to R15?


    Yes please make thees enchantments upgradable
    Schließe dich meiner Gilde Valindras Fear an Gildenhalle 20 Marktplatz 9 Stall 9 Kasserne 9, Entdeckergilde 9
    Join my guild Valindras Fear GH20 Marketplace 9 Stable 9 Barracs 9 Explorer Guild 9
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited March 2019
    With the shift of stats with this patch the stat distributions on gear seems off, especially given that you can proceed straight from level 1 to level 70.

    There are several quests that provide main and offhand items, but at level 70 Neverember gives you an artifact set which should always be superior to these, making these items essentially cosmetic and thus poor quest rewards.

    When completing HEs blue gear that is level appropriate to the zone drops randomly, but the HEs are most needed by level 80 toons. This blue gear includes weapons that are even more useless at level 80, they would be far better as free transmutes and boosted RP (making them a valuable drop).


    I guess this is as good a sport for this as any:
    When modifying my Titansteel (MW2) shield I got the message you can see in the picture, which is also clearly wrong from the picture:

    Post edited by obsidiancran3 on
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 436Member Arc User
    edited March 2019
    SUGGESTION FOR EXPERIENCE BALANCING

    Problem: Any fresh level 70 character can run any of the lower level 70 campaigns and get to level 80 before ever hitting Undermountain. Conversely, they can skip all of the newly 'optional' content and complete Undermountain without much more difficulty than a veteran player.

    Recommended Solution:
    o - Increase the experience required to advance beyond level 70 to 1 million experience per level.
    o - Have each boon point give a +1% experience boost
    o - Have all 'non-repeatable' quests level 70+ award triple EXP
    o - Double the campaign completion point generation for optional campaigns to reduce their grind.
    o - Increase the 70+ Level-Up reward to 10,000 AD plus 5,000 RP with one special item awarded from this list

    Companion Training Token
    Greater Companion Experience Treatise
    Preservation Ward
    Cube of Augmentation
    Scroll of Mass Life
    10 Gold


    Making this change is possible since Power Points are no longer required. Undermountain lower levels will be immediately playable by fresh level 70 players but it will get harder faster. This will encourage "but not force" them to complete a campaign or two before completing the storyline. Players will gain some added reward for playing campaigns from the EXP they give. It will provide a sense of progression and accomplishment. note: since many end-game players have no content left to play and are stuck at level 70 when mod 16 launches, it would be adviseable to co-incide launch with a "Double EXP" event.
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    SUGGESTION FOR EXPERIENCE BALANCING

    Problem: Any fresh level 70 character can run any of the lower level 70 campaigns and get to level 80 before ever hitting Undermountain. Conversely, they can skip all of the newly 'optional' content and complete Undermountain without much more difficulty than a veteran player.

    Recommended Solution:
    o - Increase the experience required to advance beyond level 70 to 1 million experience per level.
    o - Have each boon point give a +1% experience boost
    o - Have all 'non-repeatable' quests level 70+ award triple EXP
    o - Increase the 70+ Level-Up reward to 10,000 AD plus 5,000 RP with one special item awarded from this list

    Companion Training Token
    Greater Companion Experience Treatise
    Preservation Ward
    Cube of Augmentation
    Scroll of Mass Life
    10 Gold


    Making this change is possible since Power Points are no longer required. Undermountain lower levels will be immediately playable by fresh level 70 players but it will get harder faster. This will encourage "but not force" them to complete a campaign or two before completing the storyline. Players will gain some added reward for completing the campaigns from the EXP awards they give. It will provide a sense of progression and accomplishment.

    Any suggestion that discourages players from immediately engaging in Undermountain is working at cross purposes to the module's marketing.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 436Member Arc User
    edited March 2019
    It does not inhibit getting there or playing the first level. It makes it more difficult to complete for players with no other campaigns completed. If a truly new player tries out Undermountain, it will ADD to their experience that it gets difficult quickly... and... OH cool.. there is a giant pile of side-campaigns that can make me stronger, (& a Zen Store too).
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    It does not inhibit getting there or playing the first level. It makes it more difficult to complete for players with no other campaigns completed. If a truly new player tries out Undermountain, it will ADD to their experience that it gets difficult quickly... and... OH cool.. there is a giant pile of side-campaigns that can make me stronger, (& a Zen Store too).

    Well, I don't know NWO's marketing strategy on this. But my guess is if players try out Undermountain, feel they can't complete it because they haven't done, say, Sharandar, then that's contrary to the team's design goals.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 436Member Arc User
    Thats ridiculous. They already have 70 levels to get through first. Marketing by making it 'available' as quickly as possible is good. But to make it easy to master is wildly counter-productive. We should avoid a mentality of spoiling new players by allowing them to rush to the end of the game because we are afraid they might get bored and quit first.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Thats ridiculous. They already have 70 levels to get through first. Marketing by making it 'available' as quickly as possible is good. But to make it easy to master is wildly counter-productive. We should avoid a mentality of spoiling new players by allowing them to rush to the end of the game because we are afraid they might get bored and quit first.

    Why?

    What do you think the goals of the dev team are, exactly? Undermountain is the latest D&D Adventure module (released Nov 2018), and Mod 16 is cross promotion. People are going to be coming to NWO because they want to try out Undermountain, and people are going to be trying out the D&D adventure module because of the game.

    New players playing Undermountain aren't any more "spoiled" than people who played Sharandar for the first time. People need to stop getting it in their head that the only proper way to play the game is to do 100% of the content released for the game.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 436Member Arc User
    I couldn't disagree more. A new player that comes to Neverwinter online because it looks awesome, wants to play a game... a real game, not get escorted directly to the final dungeon. That will make many of the players looking for a 'deeper game' quit.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    I couldn't disagree more. A new player that comes to Neverwinter online because it looks awesome, wants to play a game... a real game, not get escorted directly to the final dungeon. That will make many of the players looking for a 'deeper game' quit.

    The game wasn't lacking depth back in mod 0; going straight to Undermountain isn't lacking depth now.

    I don't have the marketing data available, obviously, so it's hard to empirically check who's right here.
  • lordseth1985lordseth1985 Posts: 301Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    I couldn't disagree more. A new player that comes to Neverwinter online because it looks awesome, wants to play a game... a real game, not get escorted directly to the final dungeon. That will make many of the players looking for a 'deeper game' quit.

    I would agree with you IF and only if this game had a great story and quest-lines, and we all know it doesn't have. Every new mod launched feels like it doesn't connect with previous one, opposed other mmos [like, i.e. Star Wars Old Republic] that with each new mod launched, we can feel and see the connections. The only exception is the basic storyline that everyone does from lvl 1 up to 60: ate least it make some sense, and I could include on that list mods 1 and 2, since we pursued and fought against Valindra [if any of you play the game since the launch, you will remember the "launch event", when we fought against Valindra's hordes trying to invade PE] and finally killed and sent her back to the philactery.

    This game doesn't have a great storyline, and any new player can just start the game, and [if they want] just jump to Undermountain and reach lvl 80 without any problem or lack of understanding the story, cuz... you know.
    Seth QuickHands - Rogue, natural born assassin.
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