Mob=single enemy? Just to be sure I'm correctly understanding. Thank you for testing that.
1. yeah, it's single enemy 2. np :-) 3. Join me in testing those, if you want: it's easy to check Split shot, Constricting, Hindering, Volley, Ambush (they all should cap at 5, but who knows)
> @artifleur said: > Aspect of the Pack > > Against bosses enabling CA usually isn't an issue expect for a few notable exceptions such as : > - the dragon turtle in FBI > - the atropal in CoDG > - Withers in ToNG > - the last boss in regular spellplague caverns > - and the list goes on > > Please bring back Aspect of the Pack or replace it by something useful.
I agree with this. The loss of the permanent CA makes it extremely difficult for a ranged play style to achieve it. At a distance of 25' with Aspect of the Falcon a player would have to spend a lot of time positioning themselves to achieve CA. If we are running around because of a mobile boss or a bad tank instead of attacking, we are not doing damage. Its a DPS loss for Archer players.
Another boss fight where CA cannot be gained is the heads of Tiamat!
<font color=cyan> The loss of the permanent CA makes it extremely difficult for a ranged play style to achieve it. At a distance of 25' with Aspect of the Falcon a player would have to spend a lot of time positioning themselves to achieve CA. If we are running around because of a mobile boss or a bad tank instead of attacking, we are not doing damage. Its a DPS loss for Archer players.
<font color=cyan> Binding Arrow should be made available to Hunter instead of Warden. This power would not be used effectively as is. I suggest exchanging Ambush from the Hunter path with Binding Arrow from the Warden path for the following reasons:
1. The synergy added by this swap would be very efficient due to the fact Warden has class features that favor close ranged combat. Ambush can be used effectively to mitigate aggro and the Bear Trap offers more utility at melee range.
2. The 5 second self buff balances the low damage done by At-Wills and adds another viable option to Warden builds.
3. Hunter path gains the Thorned Roots dmg buff on Binding Arrow.
4. Hunter has a group heal added to its group support capabilities. With Hawk Eye, Enemy Rooting, Hunter's Teamwork and Stag Heart the Hunter paragon offers a lot of options to the class and players.
Please swap these powers for the overall improvement of Rangers and add diversity to class builds.
Also consider returning permanent Combat Advantage to Aspect of the Pack. I hope a Developer reads this because i cant figure out how to change the text to cyan.
Recently played TR on preview, good job on the class changes, even though the TR I had on preview has 8K IL, it was fun to play. Fast recharging stealth bar, self combat advantage, feats that actually define play style, high movement speed, effective at-wills that is useful and additive to the encounter damage.
Please consider Aspect of the Pack as a self combat advantage enabler for the solo purposes of the class,or at least give the HR combat advantage against dazed by roots(a.k.a class feature) enemies, and do whatever you did for TR to HR.
We dont want encounter cooldown reducers, we already have 6 encounters. We want a defined playstyle. Otherwise we are just underpowered button smashers. Before this mod it actually had some sense, you needed to hit some encounters before the others to increase DPS output, right now it doesnt make any sense because it really is not worth timing for 6% more damage at best. Also consider giving us feats like TR has to its Tab mechanism, like for every stance change + encounter you hit, you get a 3% damage and movement speed bonus that stacks upto 5 times.
1
minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
Recently played TR on preview, good job on the class changes, even though the TR I had on preview has 8K IL, it was fun to play. Fast recharging stealth bar, self combat advantage, feats that actually define play style, high movement speed, effective at-wills that is useful and additive to the encounter damage.
Please consider Aspect of the Pack as a self combat advantage enabler for the solo purposes of the class,or at least give the HR combat advantage against dazed by roots(a.k.a class feature) enemies, and do whatever you did for TR to HR.
We dont want encounter cooldown reducers, we already have 6 encounters. We want a defined playstyle. Otherwise we are just underpowered button smashers. Before this mod it actually had some sense, you needed to hit some encounters before the others to increase DPS output, right now it doesnt make any sense because it really is not worth timing for 6% more damage at best. Also consider giving us feats like TR has to its Tab mechanism, like for every stance change + encounter you hit, you get a 3% damage and movement speed bonus that stacks upto 5 times.
Speak for yourself, not everybody likes stance switching so not everybody really has 6 encounters and the requirement to move like crazy in and out, I'd much rather be able to play my combat ranger with the bow basically as a fashion accessory, and have as many cooldown reducers as I can get to facilitate this.
I know a number of pure archers that feel similarly.
....We dont want encounter cooldown reducers, we already have 6 encounters....
please speak only for yourself, not others and not me. I personally love the "storm recovery" feat on warden. It allows me to hit 5 melee encounters real quick.
Inquisitor..... Dev's have said the ranger is getting changes done in a future patch. We are still waiting for it for it has not come yet. Be patient. And ty for the feedback.
Sorry Cryptic developers, even the players dont understand the class, after seeing those last comments, I decided not to provide any feedback on this thread.
I see now this is why you cant provide a good class to HRs. Some wants a good archer, some wants a good combatter. Imho, having 6 encounters and 2 different stances say a lot about the intention of the creation about this class, yet some disagrees clearly that they even describe a whole stance as a damn fashion.
I totally apologize for blaming you for not giving us what we want because it seems like we dont know what we want and it is impossible to satisfy us under these circumstances.
Give us what you want, I will adapt to it anyway kind of situation is the way to go here, for ME ( stating personal idea here...).
Thats what happens when you could get so many different playstyles out of one class. God beware it gave people the idea to actually use them and grow attached to them. For all it's worth, I actually think we are not at all that away from wanting the same for HR, a smooth playstyle. If you can achieve that by utilising both stances and 6 encounters, thats fine and all, I play trapper so I wouldn't want it any differently. But I still have to run around waiting for my encounters to come off cooldown even tho I have 6, because using my at-wills is so pointless it hurts. In the time I have to use them for what little dmg they dish out I might be dead before my encounters are up again. And well - I have 6. So if I have to wait on my 6, whats a pure ranged archer gonna say to that... Using feats on cooldown reduction to be able to kill mobs the same lvl as my char without breaking my fingers from running around for 20 min and using 10 stones in the same time span is just not what I have signed up for
inquisitors point/post is actually why I liked HR. I could play trapper/combat/archer/hybrids/buffs if I wanted, and I actually had to use my brain a bit to make them all work as intended. I don't see why reduction of build options is the prime way to nerf not just us, but classes in general.
e: It's simplification of a class that nobody asked for, at least thats what it looks like to me. If I only cared about my dmg output and nothing else I would've probably switched to combat at a point, but I didn't want to because trapper WAS fun. I ran a archer hybrid for the same reason too, for a while. And because combat felt strange to me, I didn't do it. If I can't get any fun out of it anymore its pointless to do it, imo. It's a game, it should be fun.
I cant resist myself from typing these, really really last comments, look at the other classes, they have similar cooldowns on encounters. We have 6. Most classes have 3, some has 4, and you never ever wait for the 6 of them to be up at the same time. You hit a daily, use an artifact, run away etc.
The cooldowns are fast enough, ok. The problem is, other classes have at-wills to do something at the cooldown time frames, and surprise surprise we simply dont. That is the main problem. Have you ever seen a Barbarian complaining about cooldowns? No because Sure Strike does well enough. Have you seen a TR complaining about Duelist's Flurry? No because it is good, for god's sake it gives you insane amount of DPS and invincibility frames, time it right and voila, you DPS as well as you dont get damaged. This is an at-will they could give a class that has stealth mechanism if you look at it survivability wise. All we get is a penetrating arrow and a slow azz combat version of it that we will never use as an at-will as it currently seems, rapid shot that has no synergy what so ever, rapid strike, that has buggy animation since module 3. This class basically has no at-will to use except for the combat meta that they threw us as a sugar into mouth. Anyway, I am kinda losing my nerve here, so have fun providing info to the devs, adios! ^^
Recently played TR on preview, good job on the class changes, even though the TR I had on preview has 8K IL, it was fun to play. Fast recharging stealth bar, self combat advantage, feats that actually define play style, high movement speed, effective at-wills that is useful and additive to the encounter damage.
Please consider Aspect of the Pack as a self combat advantage enabler for the solo purposes of the class,or at least give the HR combat advantage against dazed by roots(a.k.a class feature) enemies, and do whatever you did for TR to HR.
We dont want encounter cooldown reducers, we already have 6 encounters. We want a defined playstyle. Otherwise we are just underpowered button smashers. Before this mod it actually had some sense, you needed to hit some encounters before the others to increase DPS output, right now it doesnt make any sense because it really is not worth timing for 6% more damage at best. Also consider giving us feats like TR has to its Tab mechanism, like for every stance change + encounter you hit, you get a 3% damage and movement speed bonus that stacks upto 5 times.
Speak for yourself. I really like the CD reduction as a possible path. I also play rogue, and appreciate that Ranger is different. Ranger has definite playstyles. 3 actually. And we already have what you're looking for in terms of damage buff, it's called AotS. And since it's a feature, you can choose to use it, or not. Over all, if you ignore the bugs which need to be fixed, the design for the ranger isn't bad. It limits us more than M15, but honestly it's less limiting than most of the other classes got. All 3 playstyles are still there. There's room for improvement, and there are some features and powers better suited in different places, the damage needs to be looked at once everything is fixed, but the Ranger came out of the redesign phase better than I expected.
If it's already good then there is no point in discussing it so wildly. Just because some people have opinion a it won't stop other people from having opinion b. None of the 3 playstyles can compete with my 12k TR, and thats just it for me. I have been playing trapper for months and months and my gwf and tr for a bit of influence running mostly. I didn't have an initial bad response to HR because I thought: Okay, maybe if this gets changed, that gets adjusted, then it's fine. Basically what happened for half the classes already. Then I tested other classes and those were good in some spots and get adjusted, while we are here discussing with ourselves, and thats it. Every week that passes is a week you cannot test HR properly. I could ignore bugs which need to be fixed if I wanted to, while checking out preview. But then again, bugs that need to be fixed is a constant HR issue, and I don't expect they will be completely fixed before it goes live. If this HR is something you wanna play it's completely fine, but then I don't understand the argument.
e: On the at-will/3-playstyle topic, because trapper is still my thing: trapper will finally go. I doubt roots get fixed, and running around firing at-wills waiting for anything really is not trapper, and there is no mechanic behind it. You slot a few encounters that are not too bad in both stances and fire them off however they come. Don't stand in the red. Rapid shot until anything happens. I can play anything else then, too, anything that really works, just not trapper anymore. "Oh you can fire 6 encounters, you don't need that much dmg to at-wills" might also be a thing, huh?
> @kythelion#3210 said: > A few addition: > > > > Recently played TR on preview, good job on the class changes, even though the TR I had on preview has 8K IL, it was fun to play. Fast recharging stealth bar, self combat advantage, feats that actually define play style, high movement speed, effective at-wills that is useful and additive to the encounter damage. > > > > Please consider Aspect of the Pack as a self combat advantage enabler for the solo purposes of the class,or at least give the HR combat advantage against dazed by roots(a.k.a class feature) enemies, and do whatever you did for TR to HR. > > > > We dont want encounter cooldown reducers, we already have 6 encounters. We want a defined playstyle. Otherwise we are just underpowered button smashers. Before this mod it actually had some sense, you needed to hit some encounters before the others to increase DPS output, right now it doesnt make any sense because it really is not worth timing for 6% more damage at best. Also consider giving us feats like TR has to its Tab mechanism, like for every stance change + encounter you hit, you get a 3% damage and movement speed bonus that stacks upto 5 times. > > Speak for yourself. I really like the CD reduction as a possible path. I also play rogue, and appreciate that Ranger is different. Ranger has definite playstyles. 3 actually. And we already have what you're looking for in terms of damage buff, it's called AotS. And since it's a feature, you can choose to use it, or not. Over all, if you ignore the bugs which need to be fixed, the design for the ranger isn't bad. It limits us more than M15, but honestly it's less limiting than most of the other classes got. All 3 playstyles are still there. There's room for improvement, and there are some features and powers better suited in different places, the damage needs to be looked at once everything is fixed, but the Ranger came out of the redesign phase better than I expected.
Do you people even read? Do you think Aspect of the Serpent which gives us 2% damage buff for each stack, which gives us an average of 4% damage buff when used utopically right, define a playstyle?
You say we still have those 3 playstyle right?
The trapper style has gotten worse than what it was on live, The archer became use your encounters and spam rapid shot class, The combat? Oh well, try using storms recovery with only encounters and none of that combat at-wills for flurry. You will see that it outperforms normal combat playstyle HR used to have. Even only using ranged powers will outperform usual combat style, do you know what is the core reason? At freaking wills. We basically do not use them for 10 modules, and we will keep not using them when module 16 hits live.
Do you think this is defined playstyle? Cool. Oh and, I was here when the developer amenar was around here from module 5 to module 6. It was the only module we were listened to and we were being interacted by developers. Even at that time, amenar moved on to another project and we remained un-complete. Bro, once a developer's or designer team's mind is set, it wont change by a huge margin. Simply because of time issues. You really believe they will change this class drastically? Let me laugh at that because if they would they should have started from week 1 of the mod 16 preview, March 1st. Noworries even stated this class as balanced, I wouldnt hope for any improvement over what we have on preview. Man, they cant even solve all the bugs we have, let alone improving the class.
Look at Barbarian posts, and look how interactive they are. Look how much they changed it over the course of preview. Week by week, improvement. Not drastic maybe but improvement and interaction. Simply because majority of the players are guess what, Barbarian.
If it's already good then there is no point in discussing it so wildly. Just because some people have opinion a it won't stop other people from having opinion b. None of the 3 playstyles can compete with my 12k TR, and thats just it for me. I have been playing trapper for months and months and my gwf and tr for a bit of influence running mostly. I didn't have an initial bad response to HR because I thought: Okay, maybe if this gets changed, that gets adjusted, then it's fine. Basically what happened for half the classes already. Then I tested other classes and those were good in some spots and get adjusted, while we are here discussing with ourselves, and thats it. Every week that passes is a week you cannot test HR properly. I could ignore bugs which need to be fixed if I wanted to, while checking out preview. But then again, bugs that need to be fixed is a constant HR issue, and I don't expect they will be completely fixed before it goes live. If this HR is something you wanna play it's completely fine, but then I don't understand the argument.
e: On the at-will/3-playstyle topic, because trapper is still my thing: trapper will finally go. I doubt roots get fixed, and running around firing at-wills waiting for anything really is not trapper, and there is no mechanic behind it. You slot a few encounters that are not too bad in both stances and fire them off however they come. Don't stand in the red. Rapid shot until anything happens. I can play anything else then, too, anything that really works, just not trapper anymore. "Oh you can fire 6 encounters, you don't need that much dmg to at-wills" might also be a thing, huh?
I get your point. I do. And I agree that it still needs work. My point is that the basic redesign isn't as bad as it could have been. When I saw that we were being limited to two paths with one set of feats each I was sure that Ranger was being reduced to archer vs melee. It wasn't. What we have isn't as full of options as M15, but compared to my DC and my rogue at least there ARE options. While Asterdahl is doing an exemplary job of interacting and iterating changes on DC to make DPS and heals balanced, pretty much everything is on lockdown. Everything from your atwills to encounters to daily is locked into place by the feats. With TR, it's pretty much the same deal. It deals better damage than Ranger right now, inarguably so. But realistically only one of the paths works at all, and only like 4 of the encounters do enough damage to even be close to worth the extreme cooldowns. I will still probably play them because this is what M16 is -reduction. I'm not saying Ranger is "good". It needs fixes and tweaks. What I'm saying is that I think the basic design choices are as good as we could have gotten given that the point of M16 is to streamline and reduce. If the bug fixes get done, there are still all three playstyles to choose from.
Speak for yourself, not everybody likes stance switching so not everybody really has 6 encounters and the requirement to move like crazy in and out, I'd much rather be able to play my combat ranger with the bow basically as a fashion accessory, and have as many cooldown reducers as I can get to facilitate this.
I know a number of pure archers that feel similarly.
Right. Not everybody loves stance switching. Not every DC loves divinity. Not every TR loves stealth. Not every CW loves spell mastery slot. Not every GF loves mark, etc.
First problem is that even if they do not love it, they still have it. What is even worse is that everybody in the party knows that they have it.
And second problem is that people in the party can start calling names in the party chat at some point when they realize that their teammate, having extreme hate for the class mechanic, is not using it and therefore his performance (and therefore the performance of the party) is HAMSTER.
Speak for yourself, not everybody likes stance switching so not everybody really has 6 encounters and the requirement to move like crazy in and out, I'd much rather be able to play my combat ranger with the bow basically as a fashion accessory, and have as many cooldown reducers as I can get to facilitate this.
I know a number of pure archers that feel similarly.
Right. Not everybody loves stance switching. Not every DC loves divinity. Not every TR loves stealth. Not every CW loves spell mastery slot. Not every GF loves mark, etc.
First problem is that even if they do not love it, they still have it. What is even worse is that everybody in the party knows that they have it.
And second problem is that people in the party can start calling names in the party chat at some point when they realize that their teammate, having extreme hate for the class mechanic, is not using it and therefore his performance (and therefore the performance of the party) is HAMSTER.
:-)
Ah, the good old days when Fighters had a tab mechanic that was useful...
3
minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
Recently played TR on preview, good job on the class changes, even though the TR I had on preview has 8K IL, it was fun to play. Fast recharging stealth bar, self combat advantage, feats that actually define play style, high movement speed, effective at-wills that is useful and additive to the encounter damage.
Please consider Aspect of the Pack as a self combat advantage enabler for the solo purposes of the class,or at least give the HR combat advantage against dazed by roots(a.k.a class feature) enemies, and do whatever you did for TR to HR.
We dont want encounter cooldown reducers, we already have 6 encounters. We want a defined playstyle. Otherwise we are just underpowered button smashers. Before this mod it actually had some sense, you needed to hit some encounters before the others to increase DPS output, right now it doesnt make any sense because it really is not worth timing for 6% more damage at best. Also consider giving us feats like TR has to its Tab mechanism, like for every stance change + encounter you hit, you get a 3% damage and movement speed bonus that stacks upto 5 times.
Speak for yourself, not everybody likes stance switching so not everybody really has 6 encounters, I'd much rather be able to play my combat ranger with the bow basically as a fashion accessory, and have as many cooldown reducers as I can get to facilitate this.
Speak for yourself, not everybody likes stance switching so not everybody really has 6 encounters and the requirement to move like crazy in and out, I'd much rather be able to play my combat ranger with the bow basically as a fashion accessory, and have as many cooldown reducers as I can get to facilitate this.
I know a number of pure archers that feel similarly.
Right. Not everybody loves stance switching. Not every DC loves divinity. Not every TR loves stealth. Not every CW loves spell mastery slot. Not every GF loves mark, etc.
First problem is that even if they do not love it, they still have it. What is even worse is that everybody in the party knows that they have it.
And second problem is that people in the party can start calling names in the party chat at some point when they realize that their teammate, having extreme hate for the class mechanic, is not using it and therefore his performance (and therefore the performance of the party) is HAMSTER.
:-)
Missing the point completely. The other class mechanics are key parts of playing the class, in Mod 15 you could play very acceptably without stance switching (or at least without using any powers in one stance), and after they screwed up the targeting on one of the ranged powers it became best to play combat. Early in HR's existence, trapper wasn't even a thing.
Rangers are different, in the core 4E D&D (and in earlier editions) most rangers chose one of bow or double handing, rather than doing the mad movement stuff. Quite a few people here play their tabletop characters. I have a friend who plays his PnP dual handing ranger and (also being a halfling where most bow models drag 6 inches under the ground) never uses the bow.
0
feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
So it looks like no fixes and more bugs since the last dev input. Big surprise.
In general, I think it bears repeating that if you're asking for cooldown reductions in feats, you're thinking about it wrong. Cooldowns are too long, so they should be shortened. That doesn't mean we should have to waste feat points, unlike every other class, on reducing cooldown times that make the class awkward and ineffective to play.
Our cooldowns are too long, our animations are too long, our damage is too low, our movement is too slow, our stealth, tanking and healing powers are laughably ineffective, our dodge is too small, our at-will are hopelessly underpowered, our class features have been nerfed to the point of uselessness and all these things should be changed outside of feat points. It's that simple.
My apologies for my last post. It was 3 a.m when i wrote it. truthfully I want the ranger to be a good class. but I have some questions for that. With that being said, I would like to ask @noworries for a 1 on 1 conversation. Maybe I could bridge the gap between the mindsets of the developers and the players( I have experience in doing just that). If that is possible, please let me know.
At this point, I prefer the developer to ignore player suggestion and pleas. There are too many suggestion that favors to individual playstyle instead of focus on the real balance. Everyone is coming out with their own best "synergy" idea which ultimately end up with a cookie cutting class build once again. If its not in favor of idea A then its idea B or C, D E.. etc. It will never end.
Its best to listen to bugs report and feedback on which power is still underperforming instead of suggestion that suggest a specific synergy. Although player are free to give feedback and suggestion, I hope the developer are able to recognize and filter those that will bring imbalance to the game. Even with that, Developer should prioritize their own idea over player suggestion. As a player, I rather play a game that is design by the professional than risk a bias game designed by some random dude in the forum. A player should not be designing the game anyway. Its kinda conflict of interest.
& Look at Barbarian posts, and look how interactive they are. Look how much they changed it over the course of preview. Week by week, improvement. Not drastic maybe but improvement and interaction. Simply because majority of the players are guess what, Barbarian.
Actually the changes went 2 steps forward but 5 steps backward First week had almost no changes, everything was messy Second week got changes and the majority is bad Third week there were nerfs But I won't blame you for not reading correctly.
> @c3rb3r3 said: > & > Look at Barbarian posts, and look how interactive they are. Look how much they changed it over the course of preview. Week by week, improvement. Not drastic maybe but improvement and interaction. Simply because majority of the players are guess what, Barbarian. > > Actually the changes went 2 steps forward but 5 steps backward > First week had almost no changes, everything was messy > Second week got changes and the majority is bad > Third week there were nerfs > But I won't blame you for not reading correctly.
Did you ever see me writing nerf to this thread? A nerf if needed is an improvement buddy. What I am saying is, backward or forward, a step is a step. Rangers didnt even crawl since the beginning of the mod 16 on preview, that is the point.
Though, I am not really kind like you, I blame you for not being able to read correctly.
I myself find it rather funny that the one dev that take care of the Rangers said that it is so balanced that not much need to be done and his name is NOWORRIES .
Played to 80 the first couple of days not much to try out being the most bugged class on preveiw and absolute ZERO responce be it that they do other stuff but when you look at barb gf op thread and the changes made and compare it to Rangers it is hard to not become a bit (no)WORRIED ......
> Look at Barbarian posts, and look how interactive they are. Look how much they changed it over the course of preview. Week by week, improvement. Not drastic maybe but improvement and interaction. Simply because majority of the players are guess what, Barbarian.
>
> Actually the changes went 2 steps forward but 5 steps backward
> First week had almost no changes, everything was messy
> Second week got changes and the majority is bad
> Third week there were nerfs
> But I won't blame you for not reading correctly.
Did you ever see me writing nerf to this thread? A nerf if needed is an improvement buddy. What I am saying is, backward or forward, a step is a step. Rangers didnt even crawl since the beginning of the mod 16 on preview, that is the point.
Though, I am not really kind like you, I blame you for not being able to read correctly.
I don't give a HAMSTER about your rant on rangers that's not the reason i quoted this part of your post
I specifically quoted this part because there are people like you spreading false information saying clownesque things such as "oh well x got listened, they got changes so they're fine". I'm not saying a nerf by itself isn't an improvement, but that week was following 2 previous weeks with pretty bad implementations therefore no changes
If a step backward is an improvement then what kind of world are you living in
some small update on power caps and another bug :-)
BUG: Plant Growth is not giving Action Points repro: check your AP proc Plant Growth and check AP bar actual: AP is the same expected: AP increased note: no appropriate row in combatlog.txt as well (screen below under spoiler)
target caps: 15 for Hindering Strike, Plant Growth, Steel Breeze 5 for Split Shot Ambush either has no cap (fully depending on the proccing power cap) or has cap 15 Constricting is single target (shame on me :-))
The same goes for Binding arrow. Without thorn root feat, they are all single target damage power with aoe CC function. That is why your suggestion on swapping RoA for Binding isn't fair for anyone that spec into non root based hunter. Its basically swapping away an aoe power for a single target. If its an improvement as suggested by kythelion, it should benefit all build and not by gimping one build while pushing the benefit to all other build. There are a lot of things to consider other than numerical value and personal taste during a swap. I believe the developer arrange all those power as it is now for a good reason.
If people are not satisfied or feel out of place regarding having Binding arrow in warden path because of its root mechanic, it can be solved without even messing with the power arrangement initially setup by the developer by just changing Binding arrow into something similar with CC function. In my opinion, its way better and simpler compare to power swapping. To nip a bud we doesn't have to cut down the whole tree.
0
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
I am not going to comment on the changes to at-wills, encounters, dailies or any of the other stat changes you made today. My only concern with today is the announcement of MoD 16 going live. This tells me that you are prepared to go live with most of the changes to classes you have made with regards to balance. This concerns me to such a degree that for the first time in over 5 years I am considering leaving, the Ranger my first and primary Class, the one that I hold dear despite its lack of attention and concern over the years may have finally died. I have posted below 2 runs, 1 run with my Justicar and a Cleric on heal spec, the second with my Warden Ranger with the same Cleric and spec. The times of both runs were nearly identical.
So the reason for this post is simply to ask why? Why is my Justicar able to do the same amount of damage as my Warden? The Cleric does 18M over 2 runs, so 9M a run, so the Justicar looks pretty good, running a dps type loadout and not built to tank at 12.8M, 58% of the damage seems legit when the cleric is running a Heal spec. When I look at my Warden's 12.1M that ends up at 57% of the damage, except ... the Warden is supposed to be dps. Any other dps class I would expect to see between 75-90% of the damage on the run. If the expectations were by yourself and the other Devs to see number break downs on classes in the range of a party of 5, 25% of the damage from each dps class, then combined 25% from Healer and Tank on the damage chart, then on the healer chart see Healer at 75%, tank 25%, damage taken chart Tank 80-90%. If these were the number you were expecting to see ... so was I. The Ranger currently has no role going into the new Mod, its not a dps if a tank can match it, and don't tell me your going to hamster the tank. You just dialed every class down on dps, time to forget all the HAMSTER and bugs going on with this class and turn the dps hamster up.
> @hastur905 said: > @noworries@astradahl > > I am not going to comment on the changes to at-wills, encounters, dailies or any of the other stat changes you made today. My only concern with today is the announcement of MoD 16 going live. This tells me that you are prepared to go live with most of the changes to classes you have made with regards to balance. This concerns me to such a degree that for the first time in over 5 years I am considering leaving, the Ranger my first and primary Class, the one that I hold dear despite its lack of attention and concern over the years may have finally died. I have posted below 2 runs, 1 run with my Justicar and a Cleric on heal spec, the second with my Warden Ranger with the same Cleric and spec. The times of both runs were nearly identical. > > Justicar > Warden > Cleric Heal > > > So the reason for this post is simply to ask why? Why is my Justicar able to do the same amount of damage as my Warden? The Cleric does 18M over 2 runs, so 9M a run, so the Justicar looks pretty good, running a dps type loadout and not built to tank at 12.8M, 58% of the damage seems legit when the cleric is running a Heal spec. When I look at my Warden's 12.1M that ends up at 57% of the damage, except ... the Warden is supposed to be dps. Any other dps class I would expect to see between 75-90% of the damage on the run. If the expectations were by yourself and the other Devs to see number break downs on classes in the range of a party of 5, 25% of the damage from each dps class, then combined 25% from Healer and Tank on the damage chart, then on the healer chart see Healer at 75%, tank 25%, damage taken chart Tank 80-90%. If these were the number you were expecting to see ... so was I. The Ranger currently has no role going into the new Mod, its not a dps if a tank can match it, and don't tell me your going to hamster the tank. You just dialed every class down on dps, time to forget all the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and bugs going on with this class and turn the dps hamster up.
Dudeeee, dont tell me that, we are buffer/debuffers!
We have thorn ward, we have commanding shot, we have hawk eye and most importantly, we have a level 77 class feature that makes our buffs stronger from 1% to a whole another world of 2%. Dont ever tell me we dont have a place in this mod. We dont even need longstrider's buff to be buffer, no we certainly did not need something like 10 percent self buff and 5 percent to allies on it. We certainly did not need it's movement speed buff, no. We are the hidden striker in a soccer pitch, ok. People will think we are dps, but we will buff and debuff instead by huuuuge percentages.
Man, I remember mod 6 conversations. They told us, yeah you are underperforming DPS wise, then they just buffed some unused powers to a mediocre level and told us to get along with it. I cant even imagine what will happen to us when mod 16 hits, especially thinking that developers see us as overbalanced.
I cant believe they are making us use Split the Sky as the most effective DPS provider. 125 per strike for a total of 5 hits is actually one of our best damager in terms of DPS. This is a power everyone has been complaining about. Dude, at least try to decrease its casting time.
Also, take a look at warden as a path. What are our wards? Yeah sure, we have thorn ward, that does nothing except 10% debuff. Thorn strike, nerfed to the ground. Lets say Split the Sky and Rain of Arrows are other wards. So the assumption is, hit them on the enemies, go back to combat, use melee encounters and hit some at wills empowered with flurry. There are 2 problems about that. One, if you just use some other encounter setup and just use encounters without any at will, you will deal better damage and the mobs wont be dead when you are trying to pop StS. Two, you are so slow and you have to be so precise with your so called wards, it is impossible to be a true warden with the current state of the game. If you want to have warden class,
Thorn ward should be a multiple hitter, meaning it should hit each enemy in its range. StS cast time should be lowered by 1 second, and rain of arrows should be considered as a single target hitter, even lower its range but give it a very high damage comsidering it is so hard to use it effectively besides some bosses. It was only effective because of Longshot feat of archery pre mod16 now it ticks so little damage that it only tickles the enemy.
By the way, to the ones that says, ok shut up so they can develop something good, we did shut up and this is what they gave us. I am 100% sure that no good/old HR will play this boring class if this hits live. I am not saying effective or strong, I am saying boring and meaningless. I myself started thinking about a TR or SW or completely leaving, already. So, my whining is only to be able to play the class I loved before all this mod 16 chaos.
Comments
2. np :-)
3. Join me in testing those, if you want: it's easy to check Split shot, Constricting, Hindering, Volley, Ambush (they all should cap at 5, but who knows)
> Aspect of the Pack
>
> Against bosses enabling CA usually isn't an issue expect for a few notable exceptions such as :
> - the dragon turtle in FBI
> - the atropal in CoDG
> - Withers in ToNG
> - the last boss in regular spellplague caverns
> - and the list goes on
>
> Please bring back Aspect of the Pack or replace it by something useful.
I agree with this. The loss of the permanent CA makes it extremely difficult for a ranged play style to achieve it. At a distance of 25' with Aspect of the Falcon a player would have to spend a lot of time positioning themselves to achieve CA. If we are running around because of a mobile boss or a bad tank instead of attacking, we are not doing damage. Its a DPS loss for Archer players.
Another boss fight where CA cannot be gained is the heads of Tiamat!
1. The synergy added by this swap would be very efficient due to the fact Warden has class features that favor close ranged combat. Ambush can be used effectively to mitigate aggro and the Bear Trap offers more utility at melee range.
2. The 5 second self buff balances the low damage done by At-Wills and adds another viable option to Warden builds.
3. Hunter path gains the Thorned Roots dmg buff on Binding Arrow.
4. Hunter has a group heal added to its group support capabilities. With Hawk Eye, Enemy Rooting, Hunter's Teamwork and Stag Heart the Hunter paragon offers a lot of options to the class and players.
Please swap these powers for the overall improvement of Rangers and add diversity to class builds.
Also consider returning permanent Combat Advantage to Aspect of the Pack. I hope a Developer reads this because i cant figure out how to change the text to cyan.
Recently played TR on preview, good job on the class changes, even though the TR I had on preview has 8K IL, it was fun to play. Fast recharging stealth bar, self combat advantage, feats that actually define play style, high movement speed, effective at-wills that is useful and additive to the encounter damage.
Please consider Aspect of the Pack as a self combat advantage enabler for the solo purposes of the class,or at least give the HR combat advantage against dazed by roots(a.k.a class feature) enemies, and do whatever you did for TR to HR.
We dont want encounter cooldown reducers, we already have 6 encounters. We want a defined playstyle. Otherwise we are just underpowered button smashers. Before this mod it actually had some sense, you needed to hit some encounters before the others to increase DPS output, right now it doesnt make any sense because it really is not worth timing for 6% more damage at best. Also consider giving us feats like TR has to its Tab mechanism, like for every stance change + encounter you hit, you get a 3% damage and movement speed bonus that stacks upto 5 times.
I know a number of pure archers that feel similarly.
Inquisitor..... Dev's have said the ranger is getting changes done in a future patch. We are still waiting for it for it has not come yet. Be patient. And ty for the feedback.
I see now this is why you cant provide a good class to HRs. Some wants a good archer, some wants a good combatter. Imho, having 6 encounters and 2 different stances say a lot about the intention of the creation about this class, yet some disagrees clearly that they even describe a whole stance as a damn fashion.
I totally apologize for blaming you for not giving us what we want because it seems like we dont know what we want and it is impossible to satisfy us under these circumstances.
Give us what you want, I will adapt to it anyway kind of situation is the way to go here, for ME ( stating personal idea here...).
For all it's worth, I actually think we are not at all that away from wanting the same for HR, a smooth playstyle. If you can achieve that by utilising both stances and 6 encounters, thats fine and all, I play trapper so I wouldn't want it any differently. But I still have to run around waiting for my encounters to come off cooldown even tho I have 6, because using my at-wills is so pointless it hurts. In the time I have to use them for what little dmg they dish out I might be dead before my encounters are up again. And well - I have 6. So if I have to wait on my 6, whats a pure ranged archer gonna say to that...
Using feats on cooldown reduction to be able to kill mobs the same lvl as my char without breaking my fingers from running around for 20 min and using 10 stones in the same time span is just not what I have signed up for
inquisitors point/post is actually why I liked HR. I could play trapper/combat/archer/hybrids/buffs if I wanted, and I actually had to use my brain a bit to make them all work as intended. I don't see why reduction of build options is the prime way to nerf not just us, but classes in general.
e: It's simplification of a class that nobody asked for, at least thats what it looks like to me. If I only cared about my dmg output and nothing else I would've probably switched to combat at a point, but I didn't want to because trapper WAS fun. I ran a archer hybrid for the same reason too, for a while. And because combat felt strange to me, I didn't do it.
If I can't get any fun out of it anymore its pointless to do it, imo. It's a game, it should be fun.
The cooldowns are fast enough, ok. The problem is, other classes have at-wills to do something at the cooldown time frames, and surprise surprise we simply dont. That is the main problem. Have you ever seen a Barbarian complaining about cooldowns? No because Sure Strike does well enough. Have you seen a TR complaining about Duelist's Flurry? No because it is good, for god's sake it gives you insane amount of DPS and invincibility frames, time it right and voila, you DPS as well as you dont get damaged. This is an at-will they could give a class that has stealth mechanism if you look at it survivability wise. All we get is a penetrating arrow and a slow azz combat version of it that we will never use as an at-will as it currently seems, rapid shot that has no synergy what so ever, rapid strike, that has buggy animation since module 3. This class basically has no at-will to use except for the combat meta that they threw us as a sugar into mouth. Anyway, I am kinda losing my nerve here, so have fun providing info to the devs, adios! ^^
None of the 3 playstyles can compete with my 12k TR, and thats just it for me. I have been playing trapper for months and months and my gwf and tr for a bit of influence running mostly.
I didn't have an initial bad response to HR because I thought: Okay, maybe if this gets changed, that gets adjusted, then it's fine.
Basically what happened for half the classes already. Then I tested other classes and those were good in some spots and get adjusted, while we are here discussing with ourselves, and thats it.
Every week that passes is a week you cannot test HR properly.
I could ignore bugs which need to be fixed if I wanted to, while checking out preview. But then again, bugs that need to be fixed is a constant HR issue, and I don't expect they will be completely fixed before it goes live.
If this HR is something you wanna play it's completely fine, but then I don't understand the argument.
e: On the at-will/3-playstyle topic, because trapper is still my thing: trapper will finally go. I doubt roots get fixed, and running around firing at-wills waiting for anything really is not trapper, and there is no mechanic behind it. You slot a few encounters that are not too bad in both stances and fire them off however they come. Don't stand in the red. Rapid shot until anything happens. I can play anything else then, too, anything that really works, just not trapper anymore.
"Oh you can fire 6 encounters, you don't need that much dmg to at-wills" might also be a thing, huh?
> A few addition:
>
>
>
> Recently played TR on preview, good job on the class changes, even though the TR I had on preview has 8K IL, it was fun to play. Fast recharging stealth bar, self combat advantage, feats that actually define play style, high movement speed, effective at-wills that is useful and additive to the encounter damage.
>
>
>
> Please consider Aspect of the Pack as a self combat advantage enabler for the solo purposes of the class,or at least give the HR combat advantage against dazed by roots(a.k.a class feature) enemies, and do whatever you did for TR to HR.
>
>
>
> We dont want encounter cooldown reducers, we already have 6 encounters. We want a defined playstyle. Otherwise we are just underpowered button smashers. Before this mod it actually had some sense, you needed to hit some encounters before the others to increase DPS output, right now it doesnt make any sense because it really is not worth timing for 6% more damage at best. Also consider giving us feats like TR has to its Tab mechanism, like for every stance change + encounter you hit, you get a 3% damage and movement speed bonus that stacks upto 5 times.
>
> Speak for yourself. I really like the CD reduction as a possible path. I also play rogue, and appreciate that Ranger is different. Ranger has definite playstyles. 3 actually. And we already have what you're looking for in terms of damage buff, it's called AotS. And since it's a feature, you can choose to use it, or not. Over all, if you ignore the bugs which need to be fixed, the design for the ranger isn't bad. It limits us more than M15, but honestly it's less limiting than most of the other classes got. All 3 playstyles are still there. There's room for improvement, and there are some features and powers better suited in different places, the damage needs to be looked at once everything is fixed, but the Ranger came out of the redesign phase better than I expected.
Do you people even read? Do you think Aspect of the Serpent which gives us 2% damage buff for each stack, which gives us an average of 4% damage buff when used utopically right, define a playstyle?
You say we still have those 3 playstyle right?
The trapper style has gotten worse than what it was on live,
The archer became use your encounters and spam rapid shot class,
The combat? Oh well, try using storms recovery with only encounters and none of that combat at-wills for flurry. You will see that it outperforms normal combat playstyle HR used to have. Even only using ranged powers will outperform usual combat style, do you know what is the core reason? At freaking wills. We basically do not use them for 10 modules, and we will keep not using them when module 16 hits live.
Do you think this is defined playstyle? Cool. Oh and, I was here when the developer amenar was around here from module 5 to module 6. It was the only module we were listened to and we were being interacted by developers. Even at that time, amenar moved on to another project and we remained un-complete. Bro, once a developer's or designer team's mind is set, it wont change by a huge margin. Simply because of time issues. You really believe they will change this class drastically? Let me laugh at that because if they would they should have started from week 1 of the mod 16 preview, March 1st. Noworries even stated this class as balanced, I wouldnt hope for any improvement over what we have on preview. Man, they cant even solve all the bugs we have, let alone improving the class.
Look at Barbarian posts, and look how interactive they are. Look how much they changed it over the course of preview. Week by week, improvement. Not drastic maybe but improvement and interaction. Simply because majority of the players are guess what, Barbarian.
Simple as that.
First problem is that even if they do not love it, they still have it.
What is even worse is that everybody in the party knows that they have it.
And second problem is that people in the party can start calling names in the party chat at some point when they realize that their teammate, having extreme hate for the class mechanic, is not using it and therefore his performance (and therefore the performance of the party) is HAMSTER.
:-)
Rangers are different, in the core 4E D&D (and in earlier editions) most rangers chose one of bow or double handing, rather than doing the mad movement stuff. Quite a few people here play their tabletop characters. I have a friend who plays his PnP dual handing ranger and (also being a halfling where most bow models drag 6 inches under the ground) never uses the bow.
In general, I think it bears repeating that if you're asking for cooldown reductions in feats, you're thinking about it wrong. Cooldowns are too long, so they should be shortened. That doesn't mean we should have to waste feat points, unlike every other class, on reducing cooldown times that make the class awkward and ineffective to play.
Our cooldowns are too long, our animations are too long, our damage is too low, our movement is too slow, our stealth, tanking and healing powers are laughably ineffective, our dodge is too small, our at-will are hopelessly underpowered, our class features have been nerfed to the point of uselessness and all these things should be changed outside of feat points. It's that simple.
Its best to listen to bugs report and feedback on which power is still underperforming instead of suggestion that suggest a specific synergy. Although player are free to give feedback and suggestion, I hope the developer are able to recognize and filter those that will bring imbalance to the game. Even with that, Developer should prioritize their own idea over player suggestion. As a player, I rather play a game that is design by the professional than risk a bias game designed by some random dude in the forum. A player should not be designing the game anyway. Its kinda conflict of interest.
First week had almost no changes, everything was messy
Second week got changes and the majority is bad
Third week there were nerfs
But I won't blame you for not reading correctly.
> &
> Look at Barbarian posts, and look how interactive they are. Look how much they changed it over the course of preview. Week by week, improvement. Not drastic maybe but improvement and interaction. Simply because majority of the players are guess what, Barbarian.
>
> Actually the changes went 2 steps forward but 5 steps backward
> First week had almost no changes, everything was messy
> Second week got changes and the majority is bad
> Third week there were nerfs
> But I won't blame you for not reading correctly.
Did you ever see me writing nerf to this thread? A nerf if needed is an improvement buddy. What I am saying is, backward or forward, a step is a step. Rangers didnt even crawl since the beginning of the mod 16 on preview, that is the point.
Though, I am not really kind like you, I blame you for not being able to read correctly.
Played to 80 the first couple of days not much to try out being the most bugged class on preveiw and absolute ZERO responce be it that they do other stuff but when you look at barb gf op thread and the changes made and compare it to Rangers it is hard to not become a bit (no)WORRIED ......
I specifically quoted this part because there are people like you spreading false information saying clownesque things such as "oh well x got listened, they got changes so they're fine". I'm not saying a nerf by itself isn't an improvement, but that week was following 2 previous weeks with pretty bad implementations therefore no changes
If a step backward is an improvement then what kind of world are you living in
BUG: Plant Growth is not giving Action Points
repro:
check your AP
proc Plant Growth and check AP bar
actual: AP is the same
expected: AP increased
note: no appropriate row in combatlog.txt as well (screen below under spoiler)
target caps:
15 for Hindering Strike, Plant Growth, Steel Breeze
5 for Split Shot
Ambush either has no cap (fully depending on the proccing power cap) or has cap 15
Constricting is single target (shame on me :-))
Plant Growth. Here you can check the bug as well.
Hindering Strike
Steel Breeze
Split Shot
Ambush
If people are not satisfied or feel out of place regarding having Binding arrow in warden path because of its root mechanic, it can be solved without even messing with the power arrangement initially setup by the developer by just changing Binding arrow into something similar with CC function. In my opinion, its way better and simpler compare to power swapping. To nip a bud we doesn't have to cut down the whole tree.
I am not going to comment on the changes to at-wills, encounters, dailies or any of the other stat changes you made today. My only concern with today is the announcement of MoD 16 going live. This tells me that you are prepared to go live with most of the changes to classes you have made with regards to balance. This concerns me to such a degree that for the first time in over 5 years I am considering leaving, the Ranger my first and primary Class, the one that I hold dear despite its lack of attention and concern over the years may have finally died. I have posted below 2 runs, 1 run with my Justicar and a Cleric on heal spec, the second with my Warden Ranger with the same Cleric and spec. The times of both runs were nearly identical.
Justicar
Warden
Cleric Heal
So the reason for this post is simply to ask why? Why is my Justicar able to do the same amount of damage as my Warden? The Cleric does 18M over 2 runs, so 9M a run, so the Justicar looks pretty good, running a dps type loadout and not built to tank at 12.8M, 58% of the damage seems legit when the cleric is running a Heal spec. When I look at my Warden's 12.1M that ends up at 57% of the damage, except ... the Warden is supposed to be dps. Any other dps class I would expect to see between 75-90% of the damage on the run. If the expectations were by yourself and the other Devs to see number break downs on classes in the range of a party of 5, 25% of the damage from each dps class, then combined 25% from Healer and Tank on the damage chart, then on the healer chart see Healer at 75%, tank 25%, damage taken chart Tank 80-90%. If these were the number you were expecting to see ... so was I. The Ranger currently has no role going into the new Mod, its not a dps if a tank can match it, and don't tell me your going to hamster the tank. You just dialed every class down on dps, time to forget all the HAMSTER and bugs going on with this class and turn the dps hamster up.
> @noworries @astradahl
>
> I am not going to comment on the changes to at-wills, encounters, dailies or any of the other stat changes you made today. My only concern with today is the announcement of MoD 16 going live. This tells me that you are prepared to go live with most of the changes to classes you have made with regards to balance. This concerns me to such a degree that for the first time in over 5 years I am considering leaving, the Ranger my first and primary Class, the one that I hold dear despite its lack of attention and concern over the years may have finally died. I have posted below 2 runs, 1 run with my Justicar and a Cleric on heal spec, the second with my Warden Ranger with the same Cleric and spec. The times of both runs were nearly identical.
>
> Justicar
> Warden
> Cleric Heal
>
>
> So the reason for this post is simply to ask why? Why is my Justicar able to do the same amount of damage as my Warden? The Cleric does 18M over 2 runs, so 9M a run, so the Justicar looks pretty good, running a dps type loadout and not built to tank at 12.8M, 58% of the damage seems legit when the cleric is running a Heal spec. When I look at my Warden's 12.1M that ends up at 57% of the damage, except ... the Warden is supposed to be dps. Any other dps class I would expect to see between 75-90% of the damage on the run. If the expectations were by yourself and the other Devs to see number break downs on classes in the range of a party of 5, 25% of the damage from each dps class, then combined 25% from Healer and Tank on the damage chart, then on the healer chart see Healer at 75%, tank 25%, damage taken chart Tank 80-90%. If these were the number you were expecting to see ... so was I. The Ranger currently has no role going into the new Mod, its not a dps if a tank can match it, and don't tell me your going to hamster the tank. You just dialed every class down on dps, time to forget all the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and bugs going on with this class and turn the dps hamster up.
Dudeeee, dont tell me that, we are buffer/debuffers!
We have thorn ward, we have commanding shot, we have hawk eye and most importantly, we have a level 77 class feature that makes our buffs stronger from 1% to a whole another world of 2%. Dont ever tell me we dont have a place in this mod. We dont even need longstrider's buff to be buffer, no we certainly did not need something like 10 percent self buff and 5 percent to allies on it. We certainly did not need it's movement speed buff, no. We are the hidden striker in a soccer pitch, ok. People will think we are dps, but we will buff and debuff instead by huuuuge percentages.
Man, I remember mod 6 conversations. They told us, yeah you are underperforming DPS wise, then they just buffed some unused powers to a mediocre level and told us to get along with it. I cant even imagine what will happen to us when mod 16 hits, especially thinking that developers see us as overbalanced.
I cant believe they are making us use Split the Sky as the most effective DPS provider. 125 per strike for a total of 5 hits is actually one of our best damager in terms of DPS. This is a power everyone has been complaining about. Dude, at least try to decrease its casting time.
Also, take a look at warden as a path. What are our wards? Yeah sure, we have thorn ward, that does nothing except 10% debuff. Thorn strike, nerfed to the ground. Lets say Split the Sky and Rain of Arrows are other wards. So the assumption is, hit them on the enemies, go back to combat, use melee encounters and hit some at wills empowered with flurry.
There are 2 problems about that. One, if you just use some other encounter setup and just use encounters without any at will, you will deal better damage and the mobs wont be dead when you are trying to pop StS. Two, you are so slow and you have to be so precise with your so called wards, it is impossible to be a true warden with the current state of the game. If you want to have warden class,
Thorn ward should be a multiple hitter, meaning it should hit each enemy in its range. StS cast time should be lowered by 1 second, and rain of arrows should be considered as a single target hitter, even lower its range but give it a very high damage comsidering it is so hard to use it effectively besides some bosses. It was only effective because of Longshot feat of archery pre mod16 now it ticks so little damage that it only tickles the enemy.
By the way, to the ones that says, ok shut up so they can develop something good, we did shut up and this is what they gave us. I am 100% sure that no good/old HR will play this boring class if this hits live. I am not saying effective or strong, I am saying boring and meaningless. I myself started thinking about a TR or SW or completely leaving, already. So, my whining is only to be able to play the class I loved before all this mod 16 chaos.