Will future campaigns after Mod 16 start to offer other rewards than boons? It's just that by the time you get to the point we are currently at, each new earned reward on that boon tree becomes the lesser of several bad options.
Currently you progress through a campaign and pick up 3 or 4 standard boons and 1 capstone boon. With the new system, depending on how far up the boon tree you are, you are likely to get the best one first, then lesser ones as the campaign progresses.
I know this system might make sense in a short term evaluation and on paper, but are people going to even vaguely enjoy grinding more weeklies after they got the boon they want to get something they're not that bothered about?
The ONLY reason I'm still running Aqc Inc is because the tree boons of Power and Defence are always useful, and +3 Crit Sev, Life Steal and Recovery are currently pretty good for my characters on Live.
If, instead, I'm down to choosing to add a couple of pips on bonus damage to cultists or dinosuars, sorry.. that balloon ship can go fly itself and that wanker Jim Darkmagic can go swing from a gibbet. The campaign content is not enough to make me repeat the same quests over and over for diminishing returns.
Every new campaign is just going to mean harder choices between stuff we don't really want.
Attritional rewards systems are less enticing in the long run than unique rewards per campaign.
(P.S, anyone who is concerned about taking +XYZ% Incoming Healing... don't be. I know it won't help you rise up the paingiver chart, but it will be a big help in M16.)
I think everything has been said by previous posters. -The boons are straightforward, no real choice. No challenge in the pick (except the top tier), which makes me think my toons are not "customizable". I do hope this list is the minimum list and will expand before the module launch. -More fancy boons are welcomed: "control / control resistance, out/ingoing healing, increased threat / reduction of aggro, stamina" etc, even defense, AP gain and more movement pleaseeee. -of course, no need to resurrect boons like elvish fury that enabled to stack power, as you don't want power creep anymore.
I am going to post in mechanics/stats section for the loss of armor class.
3
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
the way the campaign boons are it makes zen campaign packs useless to buy at all, beter save my money for something better maybe a new haircut ? new companion;)
0
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
I think everything has been said by previous posters. -The boons are straightforward, no real choice. No challenge in the pick (except the top tier), which makes me think my toons are not "customizable". I do hope this list is the minimum list and will expand before the module launch. -More fancy boons are welcomed: "control / control resistance, out/ingoing healing, increased threat / reduction of aggro, stamina" etc, even defense, AP gain and more movement pleaseeee. -of course, no need to resurrect boons like elvish fury that enabled to stack power, as you don't want power creep anymore.
I am going to post in mechanics/stats section for the loss of armor class.
@sgrantdev elvish fury/dread ring capstone power buff boon and the skt last boons for damage would be a bis for dps role for sure, @werdandi#8366 the powercreep was from powershare mechanics applied to player and companion and then the bonding buffed even more from that powershare to the player, so player would get the normal power share and the companion power share x the percentage of the 3 bonding runes it was never related to boons giving us power.
I think everything has been said by previous posters. -The boons are straightforward, no real choice. No challenge in the pick (except the top tier), which makes me think my toons are not "customizable". I do hope this list is the minimum list and will expand before the module launch. -More fancy boons are welcomed: "control / control resistance, out/ingoing healing, increased threat / reduction of aggro, stamina" etc, even defense, AP gain and more movement pleaseeee. -of course, no need to resurrect boons like elvish fury that enabled to stack power, as you don't want power creep anymore.
I am going to post in mechanics/stats section for the loss of armor class.
@sgrantdev elvish fury/dread ring capstone power buff boon and the skt last boons for damage would be a bis for dps role for sure, @werdandi#8366 the powercreep was from powershare mechanics applied to player and companion and then the bonding buffed even more from that powershare to the player, so player would get the normal power share and the companion power share x the percentage of the 3 bonding runes it was never related to boons giving us power.
I mean the 4000 more power in module 16 could be considered as overpowered by the devs But yes of course, I like these boons.
It used to be easy to choose which boon to take now not so much.
You got that backwards. There used to be "hard" choices, where you had to pick one of two "good" boons. Now, you just pick something like this:
The top 2 tiers depend on role/class, lower 4 tiers will be pretty much the same for everyone - no thinking required.
My point was when choosing between 2 good boons there is no completely wrong choice, now there is plenty of opportunity to waste boon points. The more points you accumulate the less of a problem it is but with a character early in the boon gathering phase of play this could get rather annoying. When there is only one right way of specking boons it means the other boons really should be replaced with viable ones. (I phrased my original complaint badly.)
I think it would be more fun if they make these changes:
Suggested Changes to Tree: o replace the monster boost boons o stagger each row so they are not lined up with one another o allow the tree to scroll left and right as if the boons are on a Christmas tree
Boon Path Progression Rules: o require a pathway of picks from the bottom upward o require that every lower row must have more picks taken than the row above it. o remove the limits on picks on top two tiers o tier 5 costs 2 points per pick o master tier costs 3 points per pick
Extra Boon Point Accquisition: o give 1 extra boon point for each 100% campaign completion o remove the automatic bonus picks
For "Achievements" and for "Collections"... a boon point is earned for reaching these thresholds: o 100 points o 300 points o 600 points o 1,000 points o 1,500 points o 2,100 points o 2,800 points o 3,600 points o 4,500 points o 5,500 points
Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Other possible thing to do with boons:
+1 to an ability score. Then cap all ability scores at 30. Boom: customization!
Given the ire on the Companions thread right now, how about a Boon that allows you to swap Companion Powers slots... Swap a Defence out and allow an Offence in its place, for example.
+1 to an ability score. Then cap all ability scores at 30. Boom: customization!
I don't know what the physical damage boost 0% would be useful ...
In another thread, someone confirmed that 0% for STR & INT is just a typo in the tooltips. They are supposedly working and giving .25% damage per point of their respective ability score.
Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
1
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
+1 to an ability score. Then cap all ability scores at 30. Boom: customization!
I don't know what the physical damage boost 0% would be useful ...
Tooltip is wrong, it's +.25% damage.
Endgame of Neverwinter should be getting all our ability scores up to 30. Then you should earn the Demigod achievement. Make it feel oldschool like that.
Or not, who cares. The only reason we need boons in the game at all is as an incentive to run new content.
Honestly, I have mixed feelings for this idea. This is further uniformization of players. Again, this promote the creation an army of clones. Do you really want to look the same, deal the same damage, use the same companions, the same bonuses, boons ... have everything the same? It scares me ...
I definitely prefer the idea of boons appropriate for class roles. Heal, control, aggro, movement ...etc.
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
3
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Honestly, I have mixed feelings for this idea. This is further uniformization of players. Again, this promote the creation an army of clones. Do you really want to look the same, deal the same damage, use the same companions, the same bonuses, boons ... have everything the same? It scares me ...
I definitely prefer the idea of boons appropriate for class roles. Heal, control, aggro, movement ...etc.
I don't care in the slightest if everyone is the same mathematically. Class difference is based on the shape of powers, what they look like, etc. As long as the classes feel like their respective role, it's fine.
And I don't care in mathematical combinations. Since math are devs, not me and you.
However, I want a useful boons, not HAMSTER-boons "dmg vs dinosaur", or "30 STR."
30 strength is pretty good man, I dunno what you're complaining about. That's 20 points at .25% each, or +5%. That's 2500 points of power worth, more than a max rank enchant!
... or one weak companion. Not for me. I don't get this bonus, because I don't play Barbie. And yes. I checked if I would receive this power. It has not increased. Unfortunately, I still prefer outgoing heal, and bonuses to control. I do not play Barbie, Tank or Pally.
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
1
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
... or one weak companion. Not for me. I don't get this bonus, because I don't play Barbie. And yes. I checked if I would receive this power. It has not increased. Unfortunately, I still prefer outgoing heal, and bonuses to control. I do not play Barbie, Tank or Pally.
One weak companion *that doesn't use up a companion slot.*
I'm always amazed at how little people understand opportunity costs-or, in the case of boons, lack thereof.
And I'm always amazed how few people care about playing a team. For example, by controlling or healing, you give something for the whole pt..
Your proposal is egotistical, good only for you. So that you could be the No. 1 on the idiotic paingiver list.
You're fixating on strength, when their suggestion applies to any ability score. Strength was just the example. I think it's a genuine comprehension issue, but there's no call to be nasty about it. You are in the wrong, here.
If we could get more info on the top tier boons, do you get all the effects when you spend 3 ranks or just the third. It would help if they would get all the current boons working, it is hard to determine how useful a nonworking boon might be if it worked. A list of current bugged boons would be nice as well.
And I'm always amazed how few people care about playing a team. For example, by controlling or healing, you give something for the whole pt..
Your proposal is egotistical, good only for you. So that you could be the No. 1 on the idiotic paingiver list.
You're fixating on strength, when their suggestion applies to any ability score. Strength was just the example. I think it's a genuine comprehension issue, but there's no call to be nasty about it. You are in the wrong, here.
I know STR is just an example. However, I don't support this idea, for other reasons. I prefer boons affecting the entire team.
edit:
If I will control mobs, I will make it easier for DPS to be on the paingiver list. If I will heal him, he will not die and he will be able to do his job. Who has comprehension issue?
My English is bad, I know. This doesn't mean, however, that I have problems understanding content ...
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
2
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
And I'm always amazed how few people care about playing a team. For example, by controlling or healing, you give something for the whole pt..
Your proposal is egotistical, good only for you. So that you could be the No. 1 on the idiotic paingiver list.
You're fixating on strength, when their suggestion applies to any ability score. Strength was just the example. I think it's a genuine comprehension issue, but there's no call to be nasty about it. You are in the wrong, here.
I know STR is just an example. However, I don't support this idea, for other reasons. I prefer boons affecting the entire team.
What the heck are you talking about?
My proposal is every boon point lets you boost 1 ability score. Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, or Cha. Each score has a max of 30, so you can't put points beyond that. But if you're a healer, boost the ability score that boosts outgoing healing. Or maybe you want to boost something that gives a defensive stat. Or maybe you want to boost something for one of the very rare +Recovery mechanisms in the game. Ability scores have a *small* effect, but they have an effect.
It's just an alternative to having boons give +500 power and +X HP or whatever; to make them feel different. In practice, +1 to a ability score is worth roughly 125 stat points. The only reason I recommended ability scores rather than stat points (which actually I did recommend earlier) was because A.) It's easier to cap and B.) It helps make the characters look/feel more epic in a way that directly ties to D&D. In 5E for instance, Epic Boons can be earned once you're past the level cap to boost your ability scores (again, up to 30). It's just a helpful tie in, to make the game feel more like the related IP, that wouldn't require introducing an entirely new system, has a *finite* cap on how broken you can get by putting points in the wrong spot (yeah, a Wizard buffing strength is going to be suboptimal, but there's a mathematical limit to how suboptimal they can get), etc.
It's intended to match all of the Dev team's stated goals, while also matching other stated goals. Your rejection to the idea is downright perplexing.
The one issue I have with my own proposal is that each individual point wouldn't be that impactful. But that's easily fixed by just having some tasks award more than one point; there's no real need to split hairs in the brainstorming stage.
I'm fine with the +DMG / +DMG Resist boons - but I think they should be moved into their own tier. Put all the stats on row 1, for instance. All the +DMG / DR boons on row two. Utility on row 3. A variety pack on row 4.
I'd also second the idea of a "campaign specific" boon - say finishing Sharandar gives you a boon that gives "+5% dmg, +5% Dmg Resist vs. Fey creatures (red caps, fomorians, elves etc)", finishing Well of Dragons gives the same bonuses vs Dragons and cultists, Underdark would give the bonuses to Demons, etc etc. It's limited enough to not be overpowering (there aren't many creatures that would fit multiple types, right?), but still significant enough if you are still working in the zone.
Dunno if this has been said before. I feel that all the racial damage types should only be available to the hr. With 80 levels of character growth to work through, we need more opportunities than our paragon feats and boon points to make choices with. Too many of our stat points are tied up into the combined ratings on our gear when it should be earned by us when we level. Some of those points should be assigned as a general buff and others we get to make choices on. Such as adding more defense or more accuracy.
Please put less stat power into our gear and more into our level ups and stat growth. Gear should give us something unique like a flaming sword or a ring that adds a paralysis effect. They aren't called boots of haste because they add a little bit of health and strength and more accurate swordsmanship.
And I'm always amazed how few people care about playing a team. For example, by controlling or healing, you give something for the whole pt..
Your proposal is egotistical, good only for you. So that you could be the No. 1 on the idiotic paingiver list.
You're fixating on strength, when their suggestion applies to any ability score. Strength was just the example. I think it's a genuine comprehension issue, but there's no call to be nasty about it. You are in the wrong, here.
I know STR is just an example. However, I don't support this idea, for other reasons. I prefer boons affecting the entire team.
edit:
If I will control mobs, I will make it easier for DPS to be on the paingiver list. If I will heal him, he will not die and he will be able to do his job. Who has comprehension issue?
My English is bad, I know. This doesn't mean, however, that I have problems understanding content ...
I would say you, in fact, have comprehension issues. There's an attribute for control strength, there's an attribute for outgoing heals.
I mean, you're either misunderstanding or deliberately trolling; I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Comments
It's just that by the time you get to the point we are currently at, each new earned reward on that boon tree becomes the lesser of several bad options.
Currently you progress through a campaign and pick up 3 or 4 standard boons and 1 capstone boon.
With the new system, depending on how far up the boon tree you are, you are likely to get the best one first, then lesser ones as the campaign progresses.
I know this system might make sense in a short term evaluation and on paper, but are people going to even vaguely enjoy grinding more weeklies after they got the boon they want to get something they're not that bothered about?
The ONLY reason I'm still running Aqc Inc is because the tree boons of Power and Defence are always useful, and +3 Crit Sev, Life Steal and Recovery are currently pretty good for my characters on Live.
If, instead, I'm down to choosing to add a couple of pips on bonus damage to cultists or dinosuars, sorry.. that balloon ship can go fly itself and that wanker Jim Darkmagic can go swing from a gibbet. The campaign content is not enough to make me repeat the same quests over and over for diminishing returns.
Every new campaign is just going to mean harder choices between stuff we don't really want.
Attritional rewards systems are less enticing in the long run than unique rewards per campaign.
(P.S, anyone who is concerned about taking +XYZ% Incoming Healing... don't be. I know it won't help you rise up the paingiver chart, but it will be a big help in M16.)
-The boons are straightforward, no real choice. No challenge in the pick (except the top tier), which makes me think my toons are not "customizable". I do hope this list is the minimum list and will expand before the module launch.
-More fancy boons are welcomed: "control / control resistance, out/ingoing healing, increased threat / reduction of aggro, stamina" etc, even defense, AP gain and more movement pleaseeee.
-of course, no need to resurrect boons like elvish fury that enabled to stack power, as you don't want power creep anymore.
I am going to post in mechanics/stats section for the loss of armor class.
elvish fury/dread ring capstone power buff boon and the skt last boons for damage would be a bis for dps role for sure,
@werdandi#8366 the powercreep was from powershare mechanics applied to player and companion and then the bonding buffed even more from that powershare to the player, so player would get the normal power share and the companion power share x the percentage of the 3 bonding runes it was never related to boons giving us power.
But yes of course, I like these boons.
Suggested Changes to Tree:
o replace the monster boost boons
o stagger each row so they are not lined up with one another
o allow the tree to scroll left and right as if the boons are on a Christmas tree
Boon Path Progression Rules:
o require a pathway of picks from the bottom upward
o require that every lower row must have more picks taken than the row above it.
o remove the limits on picks on top two tiers
o tier 5 costs 2 points per pick
o master tier costs 3 points per pick
Extra Boon Point Accquisition:
o give 1 extra boon point for each 100% campaign completion
o remove the automatic bonus picks
For "Achievements" and for "Collections"... a boon point is earned for reaching these thresholds:
o 100 points
o 300 points
o 600 points
o 1,000 points
o 1,500 points
o 2,100 points
o 2,800 points
o 3,600 points
o 4,500 points
o 5,500 points
+1 to an ability score. Then cap all ability scores at 30. Boom: customization!
Swap a Defence out and allow an Offence in its place, for example.
(I'm only half joking with that idea.)
Endgame of Neverwinter should be getting all our ability scores up to 30. Then you should earn the Demigod achievement. Make it feel oldschool like that.
Or not, who cares. The only reason we need boons in the game at all is as an incentive to run new content.
This is further uniformization of players. Again, this promote the creation an army of clones. Do you really want to look the same, deal the same damage, use the same companions, the same bonuses, boons ... have everything the same?
It scares me ...
I definitely prefer the idea of boons appropriate for class roles.
Heal, control, aggro, movement ...etc.
However, I want a useful boons, not HAMSTER-boons "dmg vs dinosaur", or "30 STR."
Not for me. I don't get this bonus, because I don't play Barbie.
And yes. I checked if I would receive this power. It has not increased.
Unfortunately, I still prefer outgoing heal, and bonuses to control. I do not play Barbie, Tank or Pally.
I'm always amazed at how little people understand opportunity costs-or, in the case of boons, lack thereof.
For example, by controlling or healing, you give something for the whole pt..
Your proposal is egotistical, good only for you.
So that you could be the No. 1 on the idiotic paingiver list.
I think it's a genuine comprehension issue, but there's no call to be nasty about it. You are in the wrong, here.
It would help if they would get all the current boons working, it is hard to determine how useful a nonworking boon might be if it worked.
A list of current bugged boons would be nice as well.
However, I don't support this idea, for other reasons.
I prefer boons affecting the entire team.
edit:
If I will control mobs, I will make it easier for DPS to be on the paingiver list. If I will heal him, he will not die and he will be able to do his job. Who has comprehension issue?
My English is bad, I know. This doesn't mean, however, that I have problems understanding content ...
My proposal is every boon point lets you boost 1 ability score. Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, or Cha. Each score has a max of 30, so you can't put points beyond that. But if you're a healer, boost the ability score that boosts outgoing healing. Or maybe you want to boost something that gives a defensive stat. Or maybe you want to boost something for one of the very rare +Recovery mechanisms in the game. Ability scores have a *small* effect, but they have an effect.
It's just an alternative to having boons give +500 power and +X HP or whatever; to make them feel different. In practice, +1 to a ability score is worth roughly 125 stat points. The only reason I recommended ability scores rather than stat points (which actually I did recommend earlier) was because A.) It's easier to cap and B.) It helps make the characters look/feel more epic in a way that directly ties to D&D. In 5E for instance, Epic Boons can be earned once you're past the level cap to boost your ability scores (again, up to 30). It's just a helpful tie in, to make the game feel more like the related IP, that wouldn't require introducing an entirely new system, has a *finite* cap on how broken you can get by putting points in the wrong spot (yeah, a Wizard buffing strength is going to be suboptimal, but there's a mathematical limit to how suboptimal they can get), etc.
It's intended to match all of the Dev team's stated goals, while also matching other stated goals. Your rejection to the idea is downright perplexing.
The one issue I have with my own proposal is that each individual point wouldn't be that impactful. But that's easily fixed by just having some tasks award more than one point; there's no real need to split hairs in the brainstorming stage.
I'd also second the idea of a "campaign specific" boon - say finishing Sharandar gives you a boon that gives "+5% dmg, +5% Dmg Resist vs. Fey creatures (red caps, fomorians, elves etc)", finishing Well of Dragons gives the same bonuses vs Dragons and cultists, Underdark would give the bonuses to Demons, etc etc. It's limited enough to not be overpowering (there aren't many creatures that would fit multiple types, right?), but still significant enough if you are still working in the zone.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
https://ibb.co/whsdG1y
40 max hit 16 median. 4% and 1,6%?
it would be correct that it was displayed
stronghold boons : power , def , arm pen at lvl 10 give 9143 /// crit res / inc heals bugged don't work at all
first point give 250 power / 1 k hp
after u get only 250 power
same for all 4 power boons
once u have all 4 5/5 u get the it get fixed and u get the 20 k hp
Please put less stat power into our gear and more into our level ups and stat growth. Gear should give us something unique like a flaming sword or a ring that adds a paralysis effect. They aren't called boots of haste because they add a little bit of health and strength and more accurate swordsmanship.
Thanks a bunch.
I mean, you're either misunderstanding or deliberately trolling; I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.