Although I am not happy with the reduction from 500 to 250, in particular when combined with the change from 500:1% to 1000:1%, it is at least positive to see the changes to the boons ... like combining the most useless boons (just a singe dinosur-related etc. now) and more useful boons actually mean that wa can do a tinty bit of tuning of our stats through the boons.
Emphasis on "tiny" though - adding 1250 points does not really make much of a difference. Personally I would have quadrupled the points given by the boons, and drastically cut the "combined" stats of gear to compensate. I like minmaxing, and getting the stats I want is just next to impossible now.
This.
In short - on live you were pursuing a campaigns to get that extra statistics, HP or much more important additional mechanics to improve or customize your toon? My first advice to any new player was - try to get as many campaign boons as you can and rank up your bondings first.
Now I can scratch first part, cos entire boon tree is offering less ratings and HP then piece of gear and in fact do not provide any really usfull bonus for a toon to be bother with it. @noworries#8859 you really belive any1 would grind SOMI for 2 months of daylies to get 1 more point worth 250 power?
Merging species related boon was ok, adding new options was ok. But with 1000:1 ratio nerfing boons to 250 was too much to boons be relevent any more
Put lot of "combined rating" choices there - those can be left on 250 points. At least doing campaigs will somehow increase overall toons rating (getting experience sort of thingy)
There seems to be a few possible ways to handle getting boons: - Follow the Elemental Evil and Undermountain Model for all campaigns, don’t change any of their levels. - Adjust some campaigns to be Level 80 (All the IWD content, Tiamat, Chult, Barovia), make all the other campaigns “levelling campaigns” like EE and Undermountain without changing their level. - Don’t change any of the old campaigns and add new ones that will allow new players to progress more smoothly with the logic that over time they can slowly pick up the old campaigns, or buy completion tokens.
(Guess which one seems likely now, and seems the worst from a customer perspective....)
The effectiveness of boons, or lack thereof is all the more stark when you have a “naked” toon that is getting a larger return per Boon point. Once you have all the boon points available now, the impact of a Boon is tiny, making them irrelevant other than for completion sake and minor tweaks. But when they matter most, when you get your first one, (likely at level 72) it’s so small it is irrelevant. 250 power is 0.25%, but all a new player is going to see is 30 to 40k power on their character sheet and a tiny gain. Going back and getting nerfed into a terrible experience by the scaling system to do old campaigns is just not worth it.
1 Boon point should give 1% point to a stat, that makes them worth either time and effort or $$.
Or the time and effort or $$ needed to get them needs a significant reduction.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
1 Boon point should give 1% point to a stat, that makes them worth either time and effort or $$.
That's exactly what I was saying about quadrupling above. The bottom line is basically that grinding for all the boons is hardly worth the effort any more, which kind-of works against the whole idea of Challenge Campaigns.
Why should I go through those challenges and get bonus currency for a selected campaign if the boons they give are next to worthless?
A part of the problem is also that the boons become less relevant as you increase your stats more. 1000 Points in power is a big deal if your total power is 20.000 - but for an end-game character with 100.000+ Power, it is not exactly game-changing.
Is it possible that Boons are being phased out? Or at the very least reduced as an ongoing part of future development?
1) We now have a fairly finite list of Boons. You get the ones you want as soon as you can, and then you are left with the lesser options you either don't need, or don't really want. If we carry on it will only be completionists who give a toss about ticking them all off. Like Titles, or Achievements.
2) Boon Stat Bonuses are being halved at the same time as the transfer rate doubles. So what DID give say, +4%, now gives +1%. That is a BIG reduction in effectiveness. And it is by design.
We don't get new Boons with each new campaign, (unless we do... in which case light the blue touch paper and retire while the screams for re-rolls with every new Boon drop ensue.)
I get that they want new players to catch up to L80 efficiency quicker than if they had to slog their guts out to run every L70 campaign to earn the Boons needed to hit par with old timers, but it does stick in the craw some that all that work seems to be regarded as "Well... that was then. THIS is now..."
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
1) We now have a fairly finite list of Boons. You get the ones you want as soon as you can, and then you are left with the lesser options you either don't need, or don't really want.
Eh, that was the case, but it changed last Friday, with some boons now able to be selceted more often than before. This means that you cannot just select all the "good" boons - you have to let some of them wait - presumably until you get more boon points to spend in M17 and other future mods.
The bad thing though is that the amount of stats you can tweak through the boons is somewhat irrelevant for "end-game" characters.
1) We now have a fairly finite list of Boons. You get the ones you want as soon as you can, and then you are left with the lesser options you either don't need, or don't really want.
Eh, that was the case, but it changed last Friday, with some boons now able to be selceted more often than before. This means that you cannot just select all the "good" boons - you have to let some of them wait - presumably until you get more boon points to spend in M17 and other future mods.
The bad thing though is that the amount of stats you can tweak through the boons is somewhat irrelevant for "end-game" characters.
Yeah, sorry, that was a bit vague and not exactly what I meant to say, though close. I knew about the extra slots, but hadn't had time to check them. What I was trying to do was simplify the attritional nature of Boons once you reach a certain point. Yeah, they upped the availability of some Boons, and halved the point to point value (effectively quartered when taking into account the 1000:1 change) but that's not the point in this instance. Unless they are going to introduce new Boons, it will come to the point where Boons won't be a sufficient incentive for campaign completion.
1 Boon point should give 1% point to a stat, that makes them worth either time and effort or $$.
That's exactly what I was saying about quadrupling above. The bottom line is basically that grinding for all the boons is hardly worth the effort any more, which kind-of works against the whole idea of Challenge Campaigns.
Why should I go through those challenges and get bonus currency for a selected campaign if the boons they give are next to worthless?
A part of the problem is also that the boons become less relevant as you increase your stats more. 1000 Points in power is a big deal if your total power is 20.000 - but for an end-game character with 100.000+ Power, it is not exactly game-changing.
From the time I have played MOD16 and watched others, the whole things seems to suffer from lacklustre accomplishments. Get a new mount? So what. Get a new boon? So what... It never seems to make a difference, esp boons and enchants. The only thing that does seem to give you drive to play is new weapons/armour but how the hell are they going to sell more zen if boons, enchants are so underwhelming. IDK? Maybe they will sell new "cool down" enchants that lower your cool down times. It all seems a mystery.
Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
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lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
Put lot of "combined rating" choices there - those can be left on 250 points. At least doing campaigs will somehow increase overall toons rating (getting experience sort of thingy)
That's an excellent idea! it would be awesome to have at leat 1 boon with "combined rating" with, let's say, 5 levels, each one increasing it by, I don't know, maybe 500 points?
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
with the recent changes in stat values from 500 to 1000, the boons are for the most part not even worth working towards for new to game, or veteran players... 5 points in a single boon amounts to a whopping 1.25%... the average player would not be able to tell the difference pre and post boon game play... which makes the content less rewarding. this is easy to test, make two identical loadouts on a character, one with boons, and one without boons, and see if you "feel" the difference during game play...
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
with the recent changes in stat values from 500 to 1000, the boons are for the most part not even worth working towards for new to game, or veteran players... 5 points in a single boon amounts to a whopping 1.25%... the average player would not be able to tell the difference pre and post boon game play... which makes the content less rewarding. this is easy to test, make two identical loadouts on a character, one with boons, and one without boons, and see if you "feel" the difference during game play...
You are correct but what makes this so odd is that one of the new mantras coming from the devs is that many of the changes are to encourage people to play together but of one the very most basic ways people gather to play together is by joining guilds. That is almost the very definition of what a guild is. A place that people come together to play NW. But one of, if not the, major motivations of both creating and joining a guild is to gain boons. If guild boons become of little worth then what is the motivation behind creating and joining a guild?
Yes, I get that guilds still provide a home base for players to come together to play in general, but with today’s social media and other gathering places like Discord the need for Guilds (less boons) is almost nil.
So, how is these nerfs to boons helping foster togetherness?
Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Yes, I get that guilds still provide a home base for players to come together to play in general, but with today’s social media and other gathering places like Discord the need for Guilds (less boons) is almost nil.
So, how is these nerfs to boons helping foster togetherness?
Well, guild boons (up to 8000 points) are at least big enough to be worthwhile. The same cannot be said for many of the regular boons.
I would like to be able to select or reject boons to help "tuning" my character to get the overall stat distribution I want, but that's just not feasible. For example I upgraded the gear of my character on Preview, until I had an IL of around 23K. I had way too many points in some stats - 83000 in Crit chance, for example. Rearranging my boons to not select the Crit% boons did not really make a significant difference. Even switching out enchants did not really bring the stat down to where I wanted it - I was simply getting so much through the gear and the "combined" stats.
I have said it before - personally I would like the points given by boons increased considerably and the points given by gear (in particular the "combined" stats decreased to compensate. This would actually encourage people to improve their characters through playing, instead of being able to buy their way to the top.
Post edited by adinosii on
Hoping for improvements...
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
with the recent changes in stat values from 500 to 1000, the boons are for the most part not even worth working towards for new to game, or veteran players... 5 points in a single boon amounts to a whopping 1.25%... the average player would not be able to tell the difference pre and post boon game play... which makes the content less rewarding. this is easy to test, make two identical loadouts on a character, one with boons, and one without boons, and see if you "feel" the difference during game play...
You are correct but what makes this so odd is that one of the new mantras coming from the devs is that many of the changes are to encourage people to play together but of one the very most basic ways people gather to play together is by joining guilds. That is almost the very definition of what a guild is. A place that people come together to play NW. But one of, if not the, major motivations of both creating and joining a guild is to gain boons. If guild boons become of little worth then what is the motivation behind creating and joining a guild?
Yes, I get that guilds still provide a home base for players to come together to play in general, but with today’s social media and other gathering places like Discord the need for Guilds (less boons) is almost nil.
So, how is these nerfs to boons helping foster togetherness?
It's not even as complex as that. It's a straight up return on investment calculation. Guild boons have a return on investment right now, although statistically smaller than before due to stat changes... whereas campaign boons in total actually have very little return on investment, therefore have little incentive to complete. Campaigns like Ravenloft or Omu now really only have an incentive to unlock the dungeon, and then quit playing the zone because the small handful of boons gained add very little to you or the group you are playing with. Generally it's finishing boons, unlocking dungeons and grinding gear that keeps players in a zone, once there is no need for either, those zones typically die.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Yes, I get that guilds still provide a home base for players to come together to play in general, but with today’s social media and other gathering places like Discord the need for Guilds (less boons) is almost nil.
So, how is these nerfs to boons helping foster togetherness?
Well, guild boons (up to 8000 points) are at least big enough to be worthwhile. The same cannot be said for many of the regular boons.
I would like to be able to select or reject boons to help "tuning" my character to get the overall stat distribution I want, but that's just not feasible. For example I upgraded the gear of my character on Preview, until I had an IL of around 23K. I had way too many points in some stats - 83000 in Crit chance, for example. Rearranging my boons to not select the Crit% boons did not really make a significant difference. Even switching out enchants did not really bring the stat down to where I wanted it - I was simply getting so much through the gear and the "combined" stats.
I have said it before - personally I would like the points given by boons increased considerably and the points given by gear (in particular the "combined" stats decreased to compensate. This would actually encourage people to improve their characters through playing, instead of being able to buy their way to the top.
I will never not be in favor of character power resting more in the character than the gear.
I have been considering boons as part of various discussions and the reality is each boon pick needs to be significant.
Boons, and Feats are the 2 things available to every character, and inside a paragon they are identical for every character. So each choice needs to be significant to make the choices matter.
As it stands now, the majority of boons are neither significant, nor interesting to choose. Picking up less than 2% of Power doesn’t have a notable impact, isn’t interesting, and is always the best choice for the first 5 picks on each of the first 3 tiers.
Consider a Boon like Healing Warmth from the Storm Kings Campaign on Live. It has multiple tiers and offers interesting choices that can be utilised by different builds in different ways. It’s a meaningful choice to invest points in it and helps distinguish your character from others (eg I have it slotted on my OP tank because I have feats that count as heal powers and trigger it when I’m in a party - it’s something that makes my tank mine). Perhaps that Boon is too effective for the targets for Mod16, but it’s an example of a significant, interesting and meaningful choice that can be put to players.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
...but it’s an example of a significant, interesting and meaningful choice that can be put to players.
But...but...but...we cannot have that. That would mean *shudder* that players would actually be different! It would also make the spreadsheets a total mess! Also, people might then actually make a bad choice ... oh, the horror!
All boons with damage bonus have been redeemed by HP. Poorly changed. There are no more attractions that make a new player want to conquer them and somehow sadden who suffered to get it.
> @admiralwarlord#3792 said: > All boons with damage bonus have been redeemed by HP. Poorly changed. There are no more attractions that make a new player want to conquer them and somehow sadden who suffered to get it. > > Error? https://imgur.com/Xv5UYUw > The only Boon released for this third choice is Constant Control.
Ahm Power >>> specific critter damage. The later only works if the enemy is present the former always works, and HP is the same compared to specific critter defences.
The new Boons are better, as in less of a trap, but still don’t really offer a choice or a significant enough improvement to justify grinding the old campaigns or buying completion tokens.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
> All boons with damage bonus have been redeemed by HP. Poorly changed. There are no more attractions that make a new player want to conquer them and somehow sadden who suffered to get it.
> The only Boon released for this third choice is Constant Control.
Ahm Power >>> specific critter damage. The later only works if the enemy is present the former always works, and HP is the same compared to specific critter defences.
The new Boons are better, as in less of a trap, but still don’t really offer a choice or a significant enough improvement to justify grinding the old campaigns or buying completion tokens.
I do not believe it was a trap, as I mentioned earlier in most dungeons there would be one of the types of enemies already mentioned. Except the dinosaur that was incredibly bizarre.
The bad thing though is that the amount of stats you can tweak through the boons is somewhat irrelevant for "end-game" characters.
this - and this is just wrong. The boons should be much stronger - give much more statpoints. If you play alot unlock alot of boons you are stronger. If you buy campaign tokens get alot of boons you are stronger.
Many people wrote there is no difference of having boons or not. If this is the case the whole game is dead - for what you are playing?
Here is the thing. Imagine a new player looking at boons and deciding how to spend their time and money. I can't ever imagine them to be incentivized to complete old campaigns on behalf of the boon rewards. That includes them never buying completion tokens from the store. Generic and weak.
The lobotomization of boons is going to be another straw on the camels back.
Agree with pretty much all the above. I don't understand the rational for the new Boon system. For me the two biggest issues are firstly choice - in that there isn't any really. Having completed Undermountain on all 8 classes, you basically pick exactly the same boons for every single class, other than maybe the top two tiers which are just generic for role. Everyone will pick all the boons that have universal effects then, if they have anything left over will start to fill in the ones specific to certain types of creatures, starting with undead, then cultists and so on. It not choice, there is no sacrifice I far preferred the old system.
The 2nd issue is even worse, the stats you get from the boons are insignificant. Baring in mind that maxed out stats in the new mod might need to be in in the 60,000 region, a couple of thousand from the boons is a drop in the ocean, the grind to complete campaigns to earn boons just becomes a complete waste of effort. I can't comprehend why you would disincentivise players from completing your own content. Will anybody bother running Storm Kings Thunder or the Maze Engine once Mod 16 drops? You're going to have completely empty zones purely due to the effort v reward of running them.
I'd far prefer it if boons offered significantly more to your stats than equipment did, you work harder to earn them and they're a sign your adventurer is experienced and put the time in (especially if you scrap buy outs), whereas anyone can pick up gear close to BIS just by completing the Undermountain Campaign.
everyone but the dev's seem to be agreeing that order of relevancy should be similar to character class, ability scores, class feat choice, boons.
gear and artifacts should be the cherry on top that gives us some really cool options.
otherwise what is the point of gaining experience to increase our level. I understand that it easier to maintain the game with combined rating giving us the necessary statistics to play. But man. that's boring.
character classes in dnd gain different fighting ability and gear choices as they level. this combined rating interpretation of that is just weird.
I don't think anyone is gonna take the "Dinosaur" boon unless they are in Chult... recommend changing it to Dinosaurs & Dragons if having competitive and viable choices is important. Alternately, it could be changed to read "Giant-sized creatures", and then also include vs Giants.
All of these contents will continue to run. Players need to win AD, and they are all in the randoms. Even though the search for boons is still demotivating, players will still need to campaign to get the keys, and all those quoted would help in some way. But be content with the new HP Boon that is useful in everything. But as someone quoted, it was a trap everyone uses on the live server
everyone but the dev's seem to be agreeing that order of relevancy should be similar to character class, ability scores, class feat choice, boons.
gear and artifacts should be the cherry on top that gives us some really cool options.
otherwise what is the point of gaining experience to increase our level. I understand that it easier to maintain the game with combined rating giving us the necessary statistics to play. But man. that's boring.
character classes in dnd gain different fighting ability and gear choices as they level. this combined rating interpretation of that is just weird.
I'm honestly surprised we don't get at least a little "combined rating" just for leveling up; it's a problem a lot of MMOs have, wherein right after an increase in level cap, characters start feeling a little weaker with every level they gain until they hit max level and start gearing up again.
It's not a dealbreaker for most players, but it does make you have to psych yourself up a bit more to level your alts.
There is a fair amount of disparity between the boon values. The top tier is especially hard to determine, because chance is unknown and the words "an amount" is used numerous times. I converted all of the boons to Item Level value to show this. For the master tier I assumed 100% proc if the conditions were correct, with no recharge timer.
60 Squire's Training - 2 . . . Power +1250 60 Armor Penetration - 2 . . . Armor Penetration +1250 60 Defense - 2 . . . Defense +1250 60 Demonic Bulwark - 2 . . . Health +5000 100 Demonic Mastery - 2 . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus demons 200 Marathon Runner - 2 . . . Movement +10% 40 Lingering Medicine - 2 . . . 5% extra healing from potions + chance of bonus heal over time
60 Knight's Training - 3 . . . Power +1250 60 Combat Advantage - 3 . . . Combat Advantage +1250 60 Awareness - 3 . . . Awareness +1250 60 Dino Bulwark - 3 . . . Health +5000 25 Dino Power - 3 . . . 5% extra damage vs Dinosaurs . . . recommend change to "Giant Creatures" (Dino, Dragon, and Giants) 150 Simple Support - 3 . . . 10% increased companion influence 40 Lingering Resistance - 3 . . . 5% extra healing from potions + chance of extra health 2 minutes
60 Captain's Training - 4 . . . Power +1250 60 Accuracy - 4 . . . Accuracy +1250 60 Deflect - 4 . . . Deflection +1250 60 Necrotic Bulwark - 4 . . . Health +5000 100 Necrotic Mastery - 4 . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus undead 100 Disenchanting Aura - 4 . . . 5% extra control resistance 40 Lingering Power - 4 . . . 5% extra healing from potions + chance of extra power 2 minutes
100 Welcome Blessings - 5 . . . 5% extra incoming healing bonus 100 Focused Precision - 5 . . . 4% extra critical severity 100 Second Wind - 5 . . . 4% extra stamina gain 200 Blessed Touch - 5 . . . 4% extra outgoing healing 150 Call of Power - 5 . . . 4% extra Action Point gain 200 Quick Turnaround - 5 . . . 4% extra Recovery speed 100 Constant Control - 5 . . . 4% extra Control Bonus
25 Deathly Rage 1 - 6 . . . Combat Advantage +500 25 Death's Bulwark 1 - 6 . . . Defense +500 20 Blood Lust 1 - 6 . . . Encounters decrease target's Awareness by 500 per rank (10 seconds) 20 Focused Retaliation 1 - 6 . . . Encounters decrease target's Armor Pen by 500 per rank (15 seconds) 5 Life Lessons 1 - 6 . . . Damage over TIme added to target in unknown amount (assuming 1000 per second) 100 Enhanced Application 1 - 6 . . . Applies Heal over Time (assuming 2,000 health per second) 150 Blessed Advantage 1 - 6 . . . Apply Heal over Time effect (assuming 2,000 health per second) 150 Blessed Resilience 1 - 6 . . . Apply Heal over Time effect (assuming 2,000 health per second)
225 Deathly Rage 2 - 6 . . . Combat Advantage +500, damage +4% 60 Death's Bulwark 2 - 6 . . . Defense +500 more, Critical Avoidance +750 370 Blood Lust 2 - 6 . . . Awareness effect -500 more, second attack on encounter for 140% weapon damage 40 Focused Retaliation 2 - 6 . . . ArmorPen effect -500 more, also reducing accuracy -500 10 Life Lessons 2 - 6 . . . Additional damage added to your attacks (assuming 5000 damage) 100 Enhanced Application 2 - 6 . . . Self-Heal added to attack (assuming this is 5000 health) 20 Blessed Advantage 2 - 6 . . . Power +1000 10 Blessed Resilience 2 - 6 . . . Max Health +2000
775 Deathly Rage 3 - 6 . . . Combat Advantage +500, damage +2%, +4000 damage/attack 25 Death's Bulwark 3 - 6 . . . Defense +500 more, +2% of HP as temporary HP while in combat 50 Blood Lust 3 - 6 . . . Awareness effect -500 more, second attack on encounter 10% more weapon damage 400 Focused Retaliation 3 - 6 . . . ArmorPen effect -500 more, 250 accuracy debuff, damage mirrored to attacker (15 sec) 10 Life Lessons 3 - 6 . . . Chance of Lifesteal on target (assuming 10% lifesteal for 50% damage to health) 150 Enhanced Application 3 - 6 . . . 30% damage resistance to next attack (assuming this is independent from defense) 50 Blessed Advantage 3 - 6 . . . Power +500, +2% recharge 15 Blessed Resilience 3 - 6 . . . Max Health +1000, refreshes 12% of stamina
My takeaway from this is that Master Boons need to be fully defined and balanced, 'vs Dinosaurs' is a lamer, and the flat stat boosts are a bit low, especially if they will get scaled, but the powers and debuffs do not.
Here is a way they could be balanced and re-arranged. Pick limits per tier are removed. All boons have 5 levels. Master boons have two levels. A cost of 1 gold to place or remove a point, and 10 gold to remove or place a master point would make swapping affordable and provide a gold dump. The full boon tree below requires 180 boon points to fill out, plus 16 master boon points. Players will want them all... but they wont have nearly enough points. The choice will wrack their brains... cause they are all good. The total effects are shown below:
2 - Recruits Training . . . Power +1500 2 - Recruits Inspiration . . . Health +6000 2 - Cultist Power . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus cultists 2 - Demonic Mastery . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus demons 2 - Gigantic Power . . . 5% extra damage vs Dinosaurs, Dragons, and Giants 2 - Necrotic Mastery . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus undead 2 - Lucky . . . +5% Gold Gain, 5% chance to avoid death-dealing damage
3 - Squire's Training . . . Power +1500 3 - Squire's Inspiration . . . Health +6000 3 - Lingering Medicine . . . Consumable use also heals 1% of Health each second for 12 seconds 3 - Disenchanting Aura . . . 10% extra control resistance 3 - Second Wind . . . 10% extra stamina gain 3 - Constant Control . . . 10% extra Control Bonus 3 - Resourceful . . . 5% extra experience gain, 5% chance to avoid death-dealing damage
4 - Captain's Training . . . Power +1500 4 - Captain's Inspiration . . . Health +6000 4 - Incoming Healing . . . 10% Incoming Heal Bonus 4 - Simple Support . . . 10% increased companion influence 4 - Marathon Runner . . . Movement +10% 4 - Lingering Influence . . . Consumable use also gives +250 combined rating for 45 seconds 4 - Nimble . . . 25% less falling damage, 5% chance to avoid death-dealing damage
5 - Knight's Valor . . . +375 to Power, Critical Hit, Combat Advantage, Accuracy, and Armor Penetration 5 - Knight's Last Stand . . . Health +1500, +375 to Defense, Deflect, Awareness, and Critical Avoidance 5 - Vampiric Weapon . . . 5% chance on at-will use to deal 50% extra damage, also healing for the amount of the increase 5 - Focused Precision . . . 5% extra critical severity 5 - Call of Power . . . 5% extra Action Point gain 5 - Quick Turnaround . . . 5% extra Recovery speed 5 - Blessed Touch . . . 5% extra outgoing healing
6 - Deathly Rage 1 . . . Combat Advantage +2000. All attacks deal an extra 20% of base weapon damage 6 - Deathly Rage 2 . . . Damage +5%
6 - Death's Bulwark 1 . . . Awareness, Critical avoidance, Defense, & Deflect +1000. Double bonus under 50% health 6 - Death's Bulwark 2 . . . Gain temp health at start of combat equal to 10% of your maximum health
6 - Blood Lust 1 . . . Targets of your encounters have their awareness reduced by 1500 points for 15 seconds 6 - Blood Lust 2 . . . Encounter skills which target a foe deal an extra 75% of base weapon damage
6 - Focused Retaliations 1 . . . Targets of your encounters have ArmorPen and Accuracy reduced by 1000 for 10 seconds 6 - Focused Retaliations 2 . . . Reflect 100% of all incoming damage for 1 second after each Encounter skill activation
6 - Adaptation 1 . . . On Daily use, enemies at full health within 50' become marked for 15 seconds 6 - Adaptation 2 . . . AoE skills deal 10% more damage when in combat with one enemy, else single target skills deal 10% extra
6 - Die Hard 1** . . . Regenerate 1% of Health each second. Stamina regenerates 20% faster 6 - Die Hard 2** . . . Deal 20% more damage. Receive 20% less damage
6 - Blessed Advantage 1* . . . Healed targets gain +3000 power and +3% recharge speed for 8 seconds 6 - Blessed Advantage 2* . . . enemies within 15' are burned for 50% of base weapon damage each second for 4 seconds
6 - Blessed Resilience 1* . . . Target is also healed for 1% of their health each second for 8 seconds 6 - Blessed Resilience 2* . . . Healed targets gain 12% of their health as Temporary Health and +50% stamina gain for 4 seconds
* Only triggers on 5% or more health healed. ** Only triggers when below 40% Health.
Comments
In short - on live you were pursuing a campaigns to get that extra statistics, HP or much more important additional mechanics to improve or customize your toon? My first advice to any new player was - try to get as many campaign boons as you can and rank up your bondings first.
Now I can scratch first part, cos entire boon tree is offering less ratings and HP then piece of gear and in fact do not provide any really usfull bonus for a toon to be bother with it. @noworries#8859 you really belive any1 would grind SOMI for 2 months of daylies to get 1 more point worth 250 power?
Merging species related boon was ok, adding new options was ok. But with 1000:1 ratio nerfing boons to 250 was too much to boons be relevent any more
Wanna make boons meaningful again?
Put lot of "combined rating" choices there - those can be left on 250 points. At least doing campaigs will somehow increase overall toons rating (getting experience sort of thingy)
- Follow the Elemental Evil and Undermountain Model for all campaigns, don’t change any of their levels.
- Adjust some campaigns to be Level 80 (All the IWD content, Tiamat, Chult, Barovia), make all the other campaigns “levelling campaigns” like EE and Undermountain without changing their level.
- Don’t change any of the old campaigns and add new ones that will allow new players to progress more smoothly with the logic that over time they can slowly pick up the old campaigns, or buy completion tokens.
(Guess which one seems likely now, and seems the worst from a customer perspective....)
The effectiveness of boons, or lack thereof is all the more stark when you have a “naked” toon that is getting a larger return per Boon point. Once you have all the boon points available now, the impact of a Boon is tiny, making them irrelevant other than for completion sake and minor tweaks. But when they matter most, when you get your first one, (likely at level 72) it’s so small it is irrelevant. 250 power is 0.25%, but all a new player is going to see is 30 to 40k power on their character sheet and a tiny gain. Going back and getting nerfed into a terrible experience by the scaling system to do old campaigns is just not worth it.
1 Boon point should give 1% point to a stat, that makes them worth either time and effort or $$.
Or the time and effort or $$ needed to get them needs a significant reduction.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Why should I go through those challenges and get bonus currency for a selected campaign if the boons they give are next to worthless?
A part of the problem is also that the boons become less relevant as you increase your stats more. 1000 Points in power is a big deal if your total power is 20.000 - but for an end-game character with 100.000+ Power, it is not exactly game-changing.
Or at the very least reduced as an ongoing part of future development?
1) We now have a fairly finite list of Boons. You get the ones you want as soon as you can, and then you are left with the lesser options you either don't need, or don't really want. If we carry on it will only be completionists who give a toss about ticking them all off. Like Titles, or Achievements.
2) Boon Stat Bonuses are being halved at the same time as the transfer rate doubles. So what DID give say, +4%, now gives +1%. That is a BIG reduction in effectiveness.
And it is by design.
We don't get new Boons with each new campaign, (unless we do... in which case light the blue touch paper and retire while the screams for re-rolls with every new Boon drop ensue.)
I get that they want new players to catch up to L80 efficiency quicker than if they had to slog their guts out to run every L70 campaign to earn the Boons needed to hit par with old timers, but it does stick in the craw some that all that work seems to be regarded as "Well... that was then. THIS is now..."
The bad thing though is that the amount of stats you can tweak through the boons is somewhat irrelevant for "end-game" characters.
What I was trying to do was simplify the attritional nature of Boons once you reach a certain point.
Yeah, they upped the availability of some Boons, and halved the point to point value (effectively quartered when taking into account the 1000:1 change) but that's not the point in this instance.
Unless they are going to introduce new Boons, it will come to the point where Boons won't be a sufficient incentive for campaign completion.
Image is not showing so here is the link to it:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m9FTyg-1IqeOf1iiRVB1llUh7NjplNjh/view?usp=sharing
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Yes, I get that guilds still provide a home base for players to come together to play in general, but with today’s social media and other gathering places like Discord the need for Guilds (less boons) is almost nil.
So, how is these nerfs to boons helping foster togetherness?
I would like to be able to select or reject boons to help "tuning" my character to get the overall stat distribution I want, but that's just not feasible. For example I upgraded the gear of my character on Preview, until I had an IL of around 23K. I had way too many points in some stats - 83000 in Crit chance, for example. Rearranging my boons to not select the Crit% boons did not really make a significant difference. Even switching out enchants did not really bring the stat down to where I wanted it - I was simply getting so much through the gear and the "combined" stats.
I have said it before - personally I would like the points given by boons increased considerably and the points given by gear (in particular the "combined" stats decreased to compensate. This would actually encourage people to improve their characters through playing, instead of being able to buy their way to the top.
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Boons, and Feats are the 2 things available to every character, and inside a paragon they are identical for every character. So each choice needs to be significant to make the choices matter.
As it stands now, the majority of boons are neither significant, nor interesting to choose. Picking up less than 2% of Power doesn’t have a notable impact, isn’t interesting, and is always the best choice for the first 5 picks on each of the first 3 tiers.
Consider a Boon like Healing Warmth from the Storm Kings Campaign on Live. It has multiple tiers and offers interesting choices that can be utilised by different builds in different ways. It’s a meaningful choice to invest points in it and helps distinguish your character from others (eg I have it slotted on my OP tank because I have feats that count as heal powers and trigger it when I’m in a party - it’s something that makes my tank mine). Perhaps that Boon is too effective for the targets for Mod16, but it’s an example of a significant, interesting and meaningful choice that can be put to players.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
You have to follow Janteloven! (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante if you have no idea what I am talking about)
Error? https://imgur.com/Xv5UYUw
The only Boon released for this third choice is Constant Control.
> All boons with damage bonus have been redeemed by HP. Poorly changed. There are no more attractions that make a new player want to conquer them and somehow sadden who suffered to get it.
>
> Error? https://imgur.com/Xv5UYUw
> The only Boon released for this third choice is Constant Control.
Ahm Power >>> specific critter damage. The later only works if the enemy is present the former always works, and HP is the same compared to specific critter defences.
The new Boons are better, as in less of a trap, but still don’t really offer a choice or a significant enough improvement to justify grinding the old campaigns or buying completion tokens.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I do not believe it was a trap, as I mentioned earlier in most dungeons there would be one of the types of enemies already mentioned. Except the dinosaur that was incredibly bizarre.
The lobotomization of boons is going to be another straw on the camels back.
The 2nd issue is even worse, the stats you get from the boons are insignificant. Baring in mind that maxed out stats in the new mod might need to be in in the 60,000 region, a couple of thousand from the boons is a drop in the ocean, the grind to complete campaigns to earn boons just becomes a complete waste of effort. I can't comprehend why you would disincentivise players from completing your own content. Will anybody bother running Storm Kings Thunder or the Maze Engine once Mod 16 drops? You're going to have completely empty zones purely due to the effort v reward of running them.
I'd far prefer it if boons offered significantly more to your stats than equipment did, you work harder to earn them and they're a sign your adventurer is experienced and put the time in (especially if you scrap buy outs), whereas anyone can pick up gear close to BIS just by completing the Undermountain Campaign.
gear and artifacts should be the cherry on top that gives us some really cool options.
otherwise what is the point of gaining experience to increase our level. I understand that it easier to maintain the game with combined rating giving us the necessary statistics to play. But man. that's boring.
character classes in dnd gain different fighting ability and gear choices as they level. this combined rating interpretation of that is just weird.
Potion boons give 1% instead of 2%.
Some potion boon extra effect (3rd point) puts your character in combat stance every few seconds.
Cultist: SoT, LoL, Tiamat, eToS, MBH
Undead: Kessel, VT, eCC, CN, Folly *, ToNG, CoDG, CR
Demons: nDEMO, eDEMO, CN, ToNG (Orcus)
All of these contents will continue to run. Players need to win AD, and they are all in the randoms. Even though the search for boons is still demotivating, players will still need to campaign to get the keys, and all those quoted would help in some way. But be content with the new HP Boon that is useful in everything. But as someone quoted, it was a trap everyone uses on the live server
It's not a dealbreaker for most players, but it does make you have to psych yourself up a bit more to level your alts.
ILvalue Boon - Tier . . . EFFECT
60 Recruits Training - 1 . . . Power +1250
60 Critical Strike - 1 . . . Critical Strike +1250
60 Critical Avoidance - 1 . . . Critical Avoidance +1250
60 Cultist Bulwark - 1 . . . Health +5000
100 Cultist Power - 1 . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus cultists
10 Gold Gain - 1 . . . 5% boost
60 Squire's Training - 2 . . . Power +1250
60 Armor Penetration - 2 . . . Armor Penetration +1250
60 Defense - 2 . . . Defense +1250
60 Demonic Bulwark - 2 . . . Health +5000
100 Demonic Mastery - 2 . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus demons
200 Marathon Runner - 2 . . . Movement +10%
40 Lingering Medicine - 2 . . . 5% extra healing from potions + chance of bonus heal over time
60 Knight's Training - 3 . . . Power +1250
60 Combat Advantage - 3 . . . Combat Advantage +1250
60 Awareness - 3 . . . Awareness +1250
60 Dino Bulwark - 3 . . . Health +5000
25 Dino Power - 3 . . . 5% extra damage vs Dinosaurs . . . recommend change to "Giant Creatures" (Dino, Dragon, and Giants)
150 Simple Support - 3 . . . 10% increased companion influence
40 Lingering Resistance - 3 . . . 5% extra healing from potions + chance of extra health 2 minutes
60 Captain's Training - 4 . . . Power +1250
60 Accuracy - 4 . . . Accuracy +1250
60 Deflect - 4 . . . Deflection +1250
60 Necrotic Bulwark - 4 . . . Health +5000
100 Necrotic Mastery - 4 . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus undead
100 Disenchanting Aura - 4 . . . 5% extra control resistance
40 Lingering Power - 4 . . . 5% extra healing from potions + chance of extra power 2 minutes
100 Welcome Blessings - 5 . . . 5% extra incoming healing bonus
100 Focused Precision - 5 . . . 4% extra critical severity
100 Second Wind - 5 . . . 4% extra stamina gain
200 Blessed Touch - 5 . . . 4% extra outgoing healing
150 Call of Power - 5 . . . 4% extra Action Point gain
200 Quick Turnaround - 5 . . . 4% extra Recovery speed
100 Constant Control - 5 . . . 4% extra Control Bonus
25 Deathly Rage 1 - 6 . . . Combat Advantage +500
25 Death's Bulwark 1 - 6 . . . Defense +500
20 Blood Lust 1 - 6 . . . Encounters decrease target's Awareness by 500 per rank (10 seconds)
20 Focused Retaliation 1 - 6 . . . Encounters decrease target's Armor Pen by 500 per rank (15 seconds)
5 Life Lessons 1 - 6 . . . Damage over TIme added to target in unknown amount (assuming 1000 per second)
100 Enhanced Application 1 - 6 . . . Applies Heal over Time (assuming 2,000 health per second)
150 Blessed Advantage 1 - 6 . . . Apply Heal over Time effect (assuming 2,000 health per second)
150 Blessed Resilience 1 - 6 . . . Apply Heal over Time effect (assuming 2,000 health per second)
225 Deathly Rage 2 - 6 . . . Combat Advantage +500, damage +4%
60 Death's Bulwark 2 - 6 . . . Defense +500 more, Critical Avoidance +750
370 Blood Lust 2 - 6 . . . Awareness effect -500 more, second attack on encounter for 140% weapon damage
40 Focused Retaliation 2 - 6 . . . ArmorPen effect -500 more, also reducing accuracy -500
10 Life Lessons 2 - 6 . . . Additional damage added to your attacks (assuming 5000 damage)
100 Enhanced Application 2 - 6 . . . Self-Heal added to attack (assuming this is 5000 health)
20 Blessed Advantage 2 - 6 . . . Power +1000
10 Blessed Resilience 2 - 6 . . . Max Health +2000
775 Deathly Rage 3 - 6 . . . Combat Advantage +500, damage +2%, +4000 damage/attack
25 Death's Bulwark 3 - 6 . . . Defense +500 more, +2% of HP as temporary HP while in combat
50 Blood Lust 3 - 6 . . . Awareness effect -500 more, second attack on encounter 10% more weapon damage
400 Focused Retaliation 3 - 6 . . . ArmorPen effect -500 more, 250 accuracy debuff, damage mirrored to attacker (15 sec)
10 Life Lessons 3 - 6 . . . Chance of Lifesteal on target (assuming 10% lifesteal for 50% damage to health)
150 Enhanced Application 3 - 6 . . . 30% damage resistance to next attack (assuming this is independent from defense)
50 Blessed Advantage 3 - 6 . . . Power +500, +2% recharge
15 Blessed Resilience 3 - 6 . . . Max Health +1000, refreshes 12% of stamina
My takeaway from this is that Master Boons need to be fully defined and balanced, 'vs Dinosaurs' is a lamer, and the flat stat boosts are a bit low, especially if they will get scaled, but the powers and debuffs do not.
Tier - Boon . . . Effect
1 - Critical Strike . . . Critical Strike +1500
1 - Critical Avoidance . . . Critical Avoidance +1500
1 - Armor Penetration . . . Armor Penetration +1500
1 - Defense . . . Defense +1500
1 - Combat Advantage . . . Combat Advantage +1500
1 - Awareness . . . Awareness +1500
1 - Accuracy . . . Accuracy +1500
1 - Deflect . . . Deflection +1500
2 - Recruits Training . . . Power +1500
2 - Recruits Inspiration . . . Health +6000
2 - Cultist Power . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus cultists
2 - Demonic Mastery . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus demons
2 - Gigantic Power . . . 5% extra damage vs Dinosaurs, Dragons, and Giants
2 - Necrotic Mastery . . . 5% extra damage and defense verus undead
2 - Lucky . . . +5% Gold Gain, 5% chance to avoid death-dealing damage
3 - Squire's Training . . . Power +1500
3 - Squire's Inspiration . . . Health +6000
3 - Lingering Medicine . . . Consumable use also heals 1% of Health each second for 12 seconds
3 - Disenchanting Aura . . . 10% extra control resistance
3 - Second Wind . . . 10% extra stamina gain
3 - Constant Control . . . 10% extra Control Bonus
3 - Resourceful . . . 5% extra experience gain, 5% chance to avoid death-dealing damage
4 - Captain's Training . . . Power +1500
4 - Captain's Inspiration . . . Health +6000
4 - Incoming Healing . . . 10% Incoming Heal Bonus
4 - Simple Support . . . 10% increased companion influence
4 - Marathon Runner . . . Movement +10%
4 - Lingering Influence . . . Consumable use also gives +250 combined rating for 45 seconds
4 - Nimble . . . 25% less falling damage, 5% chance to avoid death-dealing damage
5 - Knight's Valor . . . +375 to Power, Critical Hit, Combat Advantage, Accuracy, and Armor Penetration
5 - Knight's Last Stand . . . Health +1500, +375 to Defense, Deflect, Awareness, and Critical Avoidance
5 - Vampiric Weapon . . . 5% chance on at-will use to deal 50% extra damage, also healing for the amount of the increase
5 - Focused Precision . . . 5% extra critical severity
5 - Call of Power . . . 5% extra Action Point gain
5 - Quick Turnaround . . . 5% extra Recovery speed
5 - Blessed Touch . . . 5% extra outgoing healing
6 - Deathly Rage 1 . . . Combat Advantage +2000. All attacks deal an extra 20% of base weapon damage
6 - Deathly Rage 2 . . . Damage +5%
6 - Death's Bulwark 1 . . . Awareness, Critical avoidance, Defense, & Deflect +1000. Double bonus under 50% health
6 - Death's Bulwark 2 . . . Gain temp health at start of combat equal to 10% of your maximum health
6 - Blood Lust 1 . . . Targets of your encounters have their awareness reduced by 1500 points for 15 seconds
6 - Blood Lust 2 . . . Encounter skills which target a foe deal an extra 75% of base weapon damage
6 - Focused Retaliations 1 . . . Targets of your encounters have ArmorPen and Accuracy reduced by 1000 for 10 seconds
6 - Focused Retaliations 2 . . . Reflect 100% of all incoming damage for 1 second after each Encounter skill activation
6 - Adaptation 1 . . . On Daily use, enemies at full health within 50' become marked for 15 seconds
6 - Adaptation 2 . . . AoE skills deal 10% more damage when in combat with one enemy, else single target skills deal 10% extra
6 - Die Hard 1** . . . Regenerate 1% of Health each second. Stamina regenerates 20% faster
6 - Die Hard 2** . . . Deal 20% more damage. Receive 20% less damage
6 - Blessed Advantage 1* . . . Healed targets gain +3000 power and +3% recharge speed for 8 seconds
6 - Blessed Advantage 2* . . . enemies within 15' are burned for 50% of base weapon damage each second for 4 seconds
6 - Blessed Resilience 1* . . . Target is also healed for 1% of their health each second for 8 seconds
6 - Blessed Resilience 2* . . . Healed targets gain 12% of their health as Temporary Health and +50% stamina gain for 4 seconds
* Only triggers on 5% or more health healed.
** Only triggers when below 40% Health.