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  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    So, @asterdahl kind of addressed this earlier (I think. I know it was a dev) but the answer was a little vague.

    Is it intended that any item that can be equipped by multiple classes have its appearance be transferred into the same item slot of any item usable by any of those classes, or that "cross class" gear like plate armor, some shields, and some 1handed beatsticks become their own appearance category that cannot by transmuted onto single-class gear of the same type?

    Example being, say, the crafted swords- under design intent, if I want my paladin to use an Iron HAMSTER Sword model, does his equipped weapon have to also be "usable by paladins and fighters," or could he apply that appearance to a paladin-specific mace because he can equip both?
  • jase2cooljase2cool Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 165 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    asterdahl said:

    What is the rationale behind the golden lion's combat power going from 100% of hp shield when summoned to only 30%?

    We've decreased almost all sources of buffs and debuffs, including temporary hit points/shields. Having access to a 100% EHP increase as often as that is an issue if we want to bring content into balance. I apologize if the change is frustrating, I made the golden lion myself!
    @asterdahl
    The Golden Lion is a legendary mount which require to open lockbox to get one.
    The combat power of only 30% is too low(cant do buff much on someone with lower max hp), even a armor enchant barkshield seems far more useful. Do consider giving higher value such as 40-50% hp shield or add some ability to it such as 30% and some defense stats or etc.

    Legendary Mount which supposed to be end game equipment most often best drop from lockbox.
    Now with the rise of companion stats bonus Legendary mount combat /equip power no longer makes much difference( which indirectly makes opening lockbox less rewarding)

    Please do look into this for better balance.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User

    Scaling shouldn't be a thing.

    What's the point of being level 80 with bis or near bis everything, if when the queue puts you in a level 12 dungeon you are level 12 with level 12 stats?

    Scaling negates progression. Period.

    Even if you increase the rewards, it doesn't fix the issue, because there is still no progression. That content will always be the same difficulty.

    So you should be free to go in a level 12 dungeon and ruin it for the level 12s in it with you, at least if it's a challenge you might not pull the whole dungeon while missing a few that proceed to completely nuke the others.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    So, basically every piece of gear (including companions whatever) goes into slots. The opportunity cost of using something is not being able to use something else.

    Legendary mounts give you access to a slot you don't otherwise have. Ergo, to balance a legendary mount, you only have to ensure that the benefit is greater than zero. Greater than zero by enough to justify the cost, of course, but still: greater than zero.

    So what's relevant isn't how legendary mount combat powers stack up against armor enchants, but rather how one legendary mount combat power stacks up against, say, Tenser's Transformation. Which gives 10% power. Compared to 30% HP? Yeah, I think Golden Lion is doing alright.
  • skuallpwskuallpw Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    sorry guys but im sure

    Scaling shouldn't be a thing.

    What's the point of being level 80 with bis or near bis everything, if when the queue puts you in a level 12 dungeon you are level 12 with level 12 stats?

    Scaling negates progression. Period.

    Even if you increase the rewards, it doesn't fix the issue, because there is still no progression. That content will always be the same difficulty.

    imo , private solo queue shouldnt scale u down
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    bpstuart said:

    I am slowly getting used to these changes but it still feels like i am having things taken away instead of given to me. The changes in how information is conveyed contributes to that in some fashion.

    instead of Damage when i hover over powers i don't see damage output i see "Magnitude" but this is utterly meaningless because i have no metric with which to give those numbers meaning. I think Damage estimates/ ranges should be returned to the powers, because right now i just have to shrug and suppose "higher number must be better even if i don't know what it is doing"

    Still raw about loosing half my powers and being railroaded into a style when i had so much fun with my old one. I kinda see what you are going for but the loss of choice is still obnoxious.

    We removed the damage "estimates" because they were barely even estimates, but essentially meaningless hypothetical numbers that would never occur, and it was so much more visually overwhelming to try to compare the information on two tooltips when they each featured a range of two seven digit values with all unique digits.

    With the magnitude system, you can easily compare two powers, and know which one hits harder, and by what ratio. 200 magnitude hits twice as hard as 100, and so on.

    It takes some getting used to, but I think the system is friendlier to both hardcore and casual players alike, and makes comparing things easier and isn't misleading as it doesn't try to provide real damage values.
    If you wanted to simplify the UI visually then a median estimate would have been helpful even if it is just for preview. "Magnitude" is a system that i don't know how it functions and since we preview players are acting as extra QA testers we are unable to give accurate feedback if powers are under or over performing.

    Now i have to wait for someone to say " Magnitude works like X hamster for brains" then do some math ( which i am bad at ) to give accurate feedback if i notice a highlevel power doing next to nothing or a low level power murdering a god other than "X feels too weak"

    I have been giving a lot of "I don't like it" feed back which is pretty unhelpful so if i ( or people better at math ) had an understanding, even a vague one, of how magnitude effected the numbers we could give better quality feed back.

    If it is a " Our mechanic details are being kept private" type of thing say so and i will accept that and go back to complaining about Durnan missing his 3rd nipple or something, like the lowly lorefiend i am.

    ( Also i want to be effective for the time I get to MURDER HAALASTAR IN THE FACE )


    Anyway thanks for putting up with me.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    bpstuart said:

    asterdahl said:

    bpstuart said:

    I am slowly getting used to these changes but it still feels like i am having things taken away instead of given to me. The changes in how information is conveyed contributes to that in some fashion.

    instead of Damage when i hover over powers i don't see damage output i see "Magnitude" but this is utterly meaningless because i have no metric with which to give those numbers meaning. I think Damage estimates/ ranges should be returned to the powers, because right now i just have to shrug and suppose "higher number must be better even if i don't know what it is doing"

    Still raw about loosing half my powers and being railroaded into a style when i had so much fun with my old one. I kinda see what you are going for but the loss of choice is still obnoxious.

    We removed the damage "estimates" because they were barely even estimates, but essentially meaningless hypothetical numbers that would never occur, and it was so much more visually overwhelming to try to compare the information on two tooltips when they each featured a range of two seven digit values with all unique digits.

    With the magnitude system, you can easily compare two powers, and know which one hits harder, and by what ratio. 200 magnitude hits twice as hard as 100, and so on.

    It takes some getting used to, but I think the system is friendlier to both hardcore and casual players alike, and makes comparing things easier and isn't misleading as it doesn't try to provide real damage values.
    If you wanted to simplify the UI visually then a median estimate would have been helpful even if it is just for preview. "Magnitude" is a system that i don't know how it functions and since we preview players are acting as extra QA testers we are unable to give accurate feedback if powers are under or over performing.

    Now i have to wait for someone to say " Magnitude works like X hamster for brains" then do some math ( which i am bad at ) to give accurate feedback if i notice a highlevel power doing next to nothing or a low level power murdering a god other than "X feels too weak"

    I have been giving a lot of "I don't like it" feed back which is pretty unhelpful so if i ( or people better at math ) had an understanding, even a vague one, of how magnitude effected the numbers we could give better quality feed back.

    If it is a " Our mechanic details are being kept private" type of thing say so and i will accept that and go back to complaining about Durnan missing his 3rd nipple or something, like the lowly lorefiend i am.

    ( Also i want to be effective for the time I get to MURDER HAALASTAR IN THE FACE )


    Anyway thanks for putting up with me.
    Am I the only one that likes the magnitude notation? It's very simple.

    Your damage is x*y

    Y is (1 + a + b + c + d + e + etc), which are your +% effects, and 1-etc are +%s

    Magnitude is x. So going from magnitude 100 to 200 will always be going from 100 * y to 200 * y.

    "Base damage" is another word for it.

    Althouuuuuuugh... I guess technically it's x * y * z, where Z is the 1 to etc stuff, and y is magnitude. X would be weapon damage.

    In retrospect, magnitude isn't the confusing part, weapon damage is. If my weapon deals 1700 damage, and I have a magnitude of 100 attack, and my other modifiers are just x1, is my attack going to deal 17000 damage?

    And come to think of it, Power is "Balanced by" HP. That suggests that the damage an attack deals isn't +% from power but that an attack deals a certain % of the target's max HP based on the difference between Power and HP variable.

    NEVER MIND I TALKED MYSELF OUT OF THINKING THIS WAS ALL SIMPLE.
  • rifter1969rifter1969 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 516 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    bpstuart said:

    I am slowly getting used to these changes but it still feels like i am having things taken away instead of given to me. The changes in how information is conveyed contributes to that in some fashion.

    instead of Damage when i hover over powers i don't see damage output i see "Magnitude" but this is utterly meaningless because i have no metric with which to give those numbers meaning. I think Damage estimates/ ranges should be returned to the powers, because right now i just have to shrug and suppose "higher number must be better even if i don't know what it is doing"

    Still raw about loosing half my powers and being railroaded into a style when i had so much fun with my old one. I kinda see what you are going for but the loss of choice is still obnoxious.

    With the magnitude system, you can easily compare two powers, and know which one hits harder, and by what ratio. 200 magnitude hits twice as hard as 100, and so on.

    @asterdahl I want to first, as other above pointed out, thank you and the dev team for posting on the feedback forums. Though, my main is a Warlock, I really would like more comments on that forum ;) , but that's neither here or there.

    I also want to say thanks for providing a little insight in the magnitude system. I really didn't see that anywhere. And you explanation makes sense, at least up to a certain point.
    It is nice knowing that a 200 magnitude power hits twice as strong as a 100, but, where do these magnitudes numbers come from? What is the basis for them? Having some sort of... reference point would help a little more.

    And thanks again =)
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    bpstuart said:

    I am slowly getting used to these changes but it still feels like i am having things taken away instead of given to me. The changes in how information is conveyed contributes to that in some fashion.

    instead of Damage when i hover over powers i don't see damage output i see "Magnitude" but this is utterly meaningless because i have no metric with which to give those numbers meaning. I think Damage estimates/ ranges should be returned to the powers, because right now i just have to shrug and suppose "higher number must be better even if i don't know what it is doing"

    Still raw about loosing half my powers and being railroaded into a style when i had so much fun with my old one. I kinda see what you are going for but the loss of choice is still obnoxious.

    With the magnitude system, you can easily compare two powers, and know which one hits harder, and by what ratio. 200 magnitude hits twice as hard as 100, and so on.

    @asterdahl I want to first, as other above pointed out, thank you and the dev team for posting on the feedback forums. Though, my main is a Warlock, I really would like more comments on that forum ;) , but that's neither here or there.

    I also want to say thanks for providing a little insight in the magnitude system. I really didn't see that anywhere. And you explanation makes sense, at least up to a certain point.
    It is nice knowing that a 200 magnitude power hits twice as strong as a 100, but, where do these magnitudes numbers come from? What is the basis for them? Having some sort of... reference point would help a little more.

    And thanks again =)
    My understanding is magnitude is "base damage" of a power. So you can think of the "base damage" of a power as being some multiplier of your weapon and the magnitude. It has to be a multiplier because otherwise magnitude 200 won't always be twice as much damage as magnitude 100.

    The part I'm unclear about is how Power "balances" against HP. The stats post sort of suggested Power/HP is equivalent to Armor Penetration/Defense, which wouldn't make any sense.
  • rifter1969rifter1969 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 516 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    bpstuart said:

    I am slowly getting used to these changes but it still feels like i am having things taken away instead of given to me. The changes in how information is conveyed contributes to that in some fashion.

    instead of Damage when i hover over powers i don't see damage output i see "Magnitude" but this is utterly meaningless because i have no metric with which to give those numbers meaning. I think Damage estimates/ ranges should be returned to the powers, because right now i just have to shrug and suppose "higher number must be better even if i don't know what it is doing"

    Still raw about loosing half my powers and being railroaded into a style when i had so much fun with my old one. I kinda see what you are going for but the loss of choice is still obnoxious.

    With the magnitude system, you can easily compare two powers, and know which one hits harder, and by what ratio. 200 magnitude hits twice as hard as 100, and so on.

    @asterdahl I want to first, as other above pointed out, thank you and the dev team for posting on the feedback forums. Though, my main is a Warlock, I really would like more comments on that forum ;) , but that's neither here or there.

    I also want to say thanks for providing a little insight in the magnitude system. I really didn't see that anywhere. And you explanation makes sense, at least up to a certain point.
    It is nice knowing that a 200 magnitude power hits twice as strong as a 100, but, where do these magnitudes numbers come from? What is the basis for them? Having some sort of... reference point would help a little more.

    And thanks again =)
    My understanding is magnitude is "base damage" of a power. So you can think of the "base damage" of a power as being some multiplier of your weapon and the magnitude. It has to be a multiplier because otherwise magnitude 200 won't always be twice as much damage as magnitude 100.

    The part I'm unclear about is how Power "balances" against HP. The stats post sort of suggested Power/HP is equivalent to Armor Penetration/Defense, which wouldn't make any sense.
    @theycallmetomu Thanks for that. But... its leaving me with even more questions....

    So, if it a multiplier of weapon damage, then how does weapon damage figure into this? Especially for say those of use that do damage with "powers" rather than "physical" objects?
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    asterdahl said:

    bpstuart said:

    I am slowly getting used to these changes but it still feels like i am having things taken away instead of given to me. The changes in how information is conveyed contributes to that in some fashion.

    instead of Damage when i hover over powers i don't see damage output i see "Magnitude" but this is utterly meaningless because i have no metric with which to give those numbers meaning. I think Damage estimates/ ranges should be returned to the powers, because right now i just have to shrug and suppose "higher number must be better even if i don't know what it is doing"

    Still raw about loosing half my powers and being railroaded into a style when i had so much fun with my old one. I kinda see what you are going for but the loss of choice is still obnoxious.

    With the magnitude system, you can easily compare two powers, and know which one hits harder, and by what ratio. 200 magnitude hits twice as hard as 100, and so on.

    @asterdahl I want to first, as other above pointed out, thank you and the dev team for posting on the feedback forums. Though, my main is a Warlock, I really would like more comments on that forum ;) , but that's neither here or there.

    I also want to say thanks for providing a little insight in the magnitude system. I really didn't see that anywhere. And you explanation makes sense, at least up to a certain point.
    It is nice knowing that a 200 magnitude power hits twice as strong as a 100, but, where do these magnitudes numbers come from? What is the basis for them? Having some sort of... reference point would help a little more.

    And thanks again =)
    My understanding is magnitude is "base damage" of a power. So you can think of the "base damage" of a power as being some multiplier of your weapon and the magnitude. It has to be a multiplier because otherwise magnitude 200 won't always be twice as much damage as magnitude 100.

    The part I'm unclear about is how Power "balances" against HP. The stats post sort of suggested Power/HP is equivalent to Armor Penetration/Defense, which wouldn't make any sense.
    @theycallmetomu Thanks for that. But... its leaving me with even more questions....

    So, if it a multiplier of weapon damage, then how does weapon damage figure into this? Especially for say those of use that do damage with "powers" rather than "physical" objects?
    There are no physical objects only powers. Every attack you make in the game uses a power. And every power has a magnitude.

    Because we know that a magnitude 200 power is x2 as damaging as a magnitude 100 power, that means that your magnitude 200 power will deal twice as much damage as a magnitude 100 power. What I can't tell you is, given no modifiers (because ArP = Defense and whatnot) how much damage a specific attack will deal. My guess is that with a weapon damage of 1700 and a magnitude of 100, you'll deal 170000 damage. Which seems extremely high. So yeah: the problem isn't magnitude, it's a failure to explain how weapon damage work.

    To be clear, "weapon" includes "implements"
  • silvergryphsilvergryph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    I, for one, am a huge fan of magnitude. I thought it was actually pretty intuitive. 100 is twice as good as 50 and half as good as 200. It makes for much cleaner tooltips and tells me all I need to know to compare damage between my powers.

    Since I know our powers are based off of weapon damage, it was pretty obvious that 100 was equal to 100% of weapon damage (before Power, scaling, buffs, Armor Penetration, crits, defenses, etc.). But, that is because I know already that weapon damage is the base.

    I do hope that for new players they put up some text when they equip their first weapon on the beach telling them something like, "Your powers all deal damage based off of your weapon damage. Equip better weapons to increase your damage. You can compare your powers by looking at the magnitude value in their tooltip. This is the percentage of your weapon damage that a power deals before all other adjustments. While not the final damage number, it is a useful tool for comparing."
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    I, for one, am a huge fan of magnitude. I thought it was actually pretty intuitive. 100 is twice as good as 50 and half as good as 200. It makes for much cleaner tooltips and tells me all I need to know to compare damage between my powers.

    Since I know our powers are based off of weapon damage, it was pretty obvious that 100 was equal to 100% of weapon damage (before Power, scaling, buffs, Armor Penetration, crits, defenses, etc.). But, that is because I know already that weapon damage is the base.

    I do hope that for new players they put up some text when they equip their first weapon on the beach telling them something like, "Your powers all deal damage based off of your weapon damage. Equip better weapons to increase your damage. You can compare your powers by looking at the magnitude value in their tooltip. This is the percentage of your weapon damage that a power deals before all other adjustments. While not the final damage number, it is a useful tool for comparing."

    Oh. Magnitude 100 is 100%. Derp. Yeah, okay, that all checks out.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    asterdahl said:



    There actually is a limit now, not per dungeon but there is now a limit regarding consecutive revivals. Once you hit 5 stacks of rez sickness your next KO you will go straight to death and need to release.

    The limit should be far lower at something like 2-3 so players can use it from time to time if they screw up/something bugs, but not to the point where they can just spam scrolls with impunity.

    Even though 5 is limited comparative to the unlimited uses of now, 5 scroll uses is still a large amount, especially considering that it can be cleared at each campfire.

  • wisper2048wisper2048 Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    Please clarify if it possible to freely change roles on skirmishes with public queues (Folly, Throne, Prophecy, etc.). There is originally no role restriction for them, so it is not problem if two of three clerics change to DPS on Throne, or Barbarian changes to Tank on Folly because there are no tanks in the group. Considering randomness of the group composition on skirmishes, adjusting roles could make group more optimal for the content.

    There is inconsistency between random queues and item levels. Master Demogorgon, Folly, and Heist all have 11k required item level. Folly and Heist are at intermediate queue, but Master Demogorgon is in advanced queue. This is inconsistent. I suggest to lower required item level of folly to 10k (possibly adjusting mob difficulty as well), and to move Heist to advanced queue (maybe with adding more difficulty to it by scaling mobs, making it 12k or so). This will allow advanced queue to pop faster. I currently wait a long of time on live before advanced queue pops with DPS, I was never successful with queuing for it on preview. Making some expert skirmish in some future mod for random expert queue would also help.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    @noworries#8859 Can you please put a limit of how many Scroll of Mass life can be used in a Dungeon? maybe 3xMass Scroll of Life per character?

    There actually is a limit now, not per dungeon but there is now a limit regarding consecutive revivals. Once you hit 5 stacks of rez sickness your next KO you will go straight to death and need to release.
    Interesting. Does this also apply to friendly player rezzes? Right now, if a player rezzes you you get sick and if you use a scroll you don't. Going forward, will both equally apply sickness? Meaning, this change is a big buff to player rezzes (5 rezzes instead of 1!) and a small nerf to scroll rezzes (no longer unlimited)?
  • rifter1969rifter1969 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 516 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    bpstuart said:

    I am slowly getting used to these changes but it still feels like i am having things taken away instead of given to me. The changes in how information is conveyed contributes to that in some fashion.

    instead of Damage when i hover over powers i don't see damage output i see "Magnitude" but this is utterly meaningless because i have no metric with which to give those numbers meaning. I think Damage estimates/ ranges should be returned to the powers, because right now i just have to shrug and suppose "higher number must be better even if i don't know what it is doing"

    Still raw about loosing half my powers and being railroaded into a style when i had so much fun with my old one. I kinda see what you are going for but the loss of choice is still obnoxious.

    With the magnitude system, you can easily compare two powers, and know which one hits harder, and by what ratio. 200 magnitude hits twice as hard as 100, and so on.

    @asterdahl I want to first, as other above pointed out, thank you and the dev team for posting on the feedback forums. Though, my main is a Warlock, I really would like more comments on that forum ;) , but that's neither here or there.

    I also want to say thanks for providing a little insight in the magnitude system. I really didn't see that anywhere. And you explanation makes sense, at least up to a certain point.
    It is nice knowing that a 200 magnitude power hits twice as strong as a 100, but, where do these magnitudes numbers come from? What is the basis for them? Having some sort of... reference point would help a little more.

    And thanks again =)
    My understanding is magnitude is "base damage" of a power. So you can think of the "base damage" of a power as being some multiplier of your weapon and the magnitude. It has to be a multiplier because otherwise magnitude 200 won't always be twice as much damage as magnitude 100.

    The part I'm unclear about is how Power "balances" against HP. The stats post sort of suggested Power/HP is equivalent to Armor Penetration/Defense, which wouldn't make any sense.
    @theycallmetomu Thanks for that. But... its leaving me with even more questions....

    So, if it a multiplier of weapon damage, then how does weapon damage figure into this? Especially for say those of use that do damage with "powers" rather than "physical" objects?
    There are no physical objects only powers. Every attack you make in the game uses a power. And every power has a magnitude.

    Because we know that a magnitude 200 power is x2 as damaging as a magnitude 100 power, that means that your magnitude 200 power will deal twice as much damage as a magnitude 100 power. What I can't tell you is, given no modifiers (because ArP = Defense and whatnot) how much damage a specific attack will deal. My guess is that with a weapon damage of 1700 and a magnitude of 100, you'll deal 170000 damage. Which seems extremely high. So yeah: the problem isn't magnitude, it's a failure to explain how weapon damage work.

    To be clear, "weapon" includes "implements"
    OK.. that actaully explains alot. Thanks! :3
  • rifter1969rifter1969 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 516 Arc User

    I, for one, am a huge fan of magnitude. I thought it was actually pretty intuitive. 100 is twice as good as 50 and half as good as 200. It makes for much cleaner tooltips and tells me all I need to know to compare damage between my powers.

    Since I know our powers are based off of weapon damage, it was pretty obvious that 100 was equal to 100% of weapon damage (before Power, scaling, buffs, Armor Penetration, crits, defenses, etc.). But, that is because I know already that weapon damage is the base.

    I do hope that for new players they put up some text when they equip their first weapon on the beach telling them something like, "Your powers all deal damage based off of your weapon damage. Equip better weapons to increase your damage. You can compare your powers by looking at the magnitude value in their tooltip. This is the percentage of your weapon damage that a power deals before all other adjustments. While not the final damage number, it is a useful tool for comparing."

    Holy Moley!!!!
    That so makes sense!!!

    Thanks @silvergryph and @theycallmetomu for your help in getting my brain to wrap around that.

    So to make sure I got this straight, for example: a 200 magnitude power would do double the base weapon damage?
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    I, for one, am a huge fan of magnitude. I thought it was actually pretty intuitive. 100 is twice as good as 50 and half as good as 200. It makes for much cleaner tooltips and tells me all I need to know to compare damage between my powers.

    Since I know our powers are based off of weapon damage, it was pretty obvious that 100 was equal to 100% of weapon damage (before Power, scaling, buffs, Armor Penetration, crits, defenses, etc.). But, that is because I know already that weapon damage is the base.

    I do hope that for new players they put up some text when they equip their first weapon on the beach telling them something like, "Your powers all deal damage based off of your weapon damage. Equip better weapons to increase your damage. You can compare your powers by looking at the magnitude value in their tooltip. This is the percentage of your weapon damage that a power deals before all other adjustments. While not the final damage number, it is a useful tool for comparing."

    Holy Moley!!!!
    That so makes sense!!!

    Thanks @silvergryph and @theycallmetomu for your help in getting my brain to wrap around that.

    So to make sure I got this straight, for example: a 200 magnitude power would do double the base weapon damage?
    That's the assumption, I haven't checked the math to make sure that that's correct on preview. But that's the logical read of how things are described.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,542 Arc User
    With a weapon damage of 1700 and magnitude of 100 you will dead 1700 damage, not 170000.
    The current relation is 100% of the weapon damage, meaning that 100 is no change, and 200% will be twice the weapon damage.

    Here related:

    http://jannenw.info/pages/mechanics16/formulas
    http://jannenw.info/pages/mechanics16/stats


  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User

    bpstuart said:

    asterdahl said:

    bpstuart said:

    I am slowly getting used to these changes but it still feels like i am having things taken away instead of given to me. The changes in how information is conveyed contributes to that in some fashion.

    instead of Damage when i hover over powers i don't see damage output i see "Magnitude" but this is utterly meaningless because i have no metric with which to give those numbers meaning. I think Damage estimates/ ranges should be returned to the powers, because right now i just have to shrug and suppose "higher number must be better even if i don't know what it is doing"

    Still raw about loosing half my powers and being railroaded into a style when i had so much fun with my old one. I kinda see what you are going for but the loss of choice is still obnoxious.

    We removed the damage "estimates" because they were barely even estimates, but essentially meaningless hypothetical numbers that would never occur, and it was so much more visually overwhelming to try to compare the information on two tooltips when they each featured a range of two seven digit values with all unique digits.

    With the magnitude system, you can easily compare two powers, and know which one hits harder, and by what ratio. 200 magnitude hits twice as hard as 100, and so on.

    It takes some getting used to, but I think the system is friendlier to both hardcore and casual players alike, and makes comparing things easier and isn't misleading as it doesn't try to provide real damage values.
    If you wanted to simplify the UI visually then a median estimate would have been helpful even if it is just for preview. "Magnitude" is a system that i don't know how it functions and since we preview players are acting as extra QA testers we are unable to give accurate feedback if powers are under or over performing.

    Now i have to wait for someone to say " Magnitude works like X hamster for brains" then do some math ( which i am bad at ) to give accurate feedback if i notice a highlevel power doing next to nothing or a low level power murdering a god other than "X feels too weak"

    I have been giving a lot of "I don't like it" feed back which is pretty unhelpful so if i ( or people better at math ) had an understanding, even a vague one, of how magnitude effected the numbers we could give better quality feed back.

    If it is a " Our mechanic details are being kept private" type of thing say so and i will accept that and go back to complaining about Durnan missing his 3rd nipple or something, like the lowly lorefiend i am.

    ( Also i want to be effective for the time I get to MURDER HAALASTAR IN THE FACE )


    Anyway thanks for putting up with me.
    Am I the only one that likes the magnitude notation? It's very simple.

    Your damage is x*y

    Y is (1 + a + b + c + d + e + etc), which are your +% effects, and 1-etc are +%s

    Magnitude is x. So going from magnitude 100 to 200 will always be going from 100 * y to 200 * y.

    "Base damage" is another word for it.

    Althouuuuuuugh... I guess technically it's x * y * z, where Z is the 1 to etc stuff, and y is magnitude. X would be weapon damage.

    In retrospect, magnitude isn't the confusing part, weapon damage is. If my weapon deals 1700 damage, and I have a magnitude of 100 attack, and my other modifiers are just x1, is my attack going to deal 17000 damage?

    And come to think of it, Power is "Balanced by" HP. That suggests that the damage an attack deals isn't +% from power but that an attack deals a certain % of the target's max HP based on the difference between Power and HP variable.

    NEVER MIND I TALKED MYSELF OUT OF THINKING THIS WAS ALL SIMPLE.
    It sounds simpler prima-fascia (Took uses Latin when faced with math to cover his ignorance).
    But you are assuming a few facts not yet in evidence.

    Are all effects additive? Multiplicative?
    Example: Damage boosting items (~% damage boost)
    Are they "upstream" affecting the magnitude first?
    Do they apply before or after the power equation component?
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  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    I haven’t broken down the relationship to weapon damage, because the damage equation is not just Weapon Damage x Magnitude.

    Because Magnitude is the only number that changes for a set arrangement of gear it’s all you need to compare.
    A magnitude 45 power should do 4.5x the damage of a magnitude 10 power, while a magnitude 1600 power does 160x that magnitude 10 power. It’s also simple to compare two powers with the same magnitude as they should do the same damage.

    Where comparison gets hard is over time and over enemies, but that’s only for long term comparison not just for looking at the numbers and seeing what they do.
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  • wisper2048wisper2048 Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    ZAX backlog is very long, and waiting several months is quite demotivating when there is no apparent progress. The minor improvements would be to show how big backlog is for specified posting, like adding message on tooltip "Before you 12,333,255 zen requests listed". In this way at least progress of listing could be checked. I think it would be a good QoL improvement for mod16.

    Also, please make all Zen store items account-bound. This will remove zen speculation component from store.
  • drumon88drumon88 Member Posts: 142 Arc User

    ZAX backlog is very long, and waiting several months is quite demotivating when there is no apparent progress. The minor improvements would be to show how big backlog is for specified posting, like adding message on tooltip "Before you 12,333,255 zen requests listed". In this way at least progress of listing could be checked. I think it would be a good QoL improvement for mod16.

    Also, please make all Zen store items account-bound. This will remove zen speculation component from store.

    I'd be happy if the backlog showed AT ALL for me. That screen's simply blank on all my characters.
  • silvergryphsilvergryph Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User

    I, for one, am a huge fan of magnitude. I thought it was actually pretty intuitive. 100 is twice as good as 50 and half as good as 200. It makes for much cleaner tooltips and tells me all I need to know to compare damage between my powers.

    Since I know our powers are based off of weapon damage, it was pretty obvious that 100 was equal to 100% of weapon damage (before Power, scaling, buffs, Armor Penetration, crits, defenses, etc.). But, that is because I know already that weapon damage is the base.

    I do hope that for new players they put up some text when they equip their first weapon on the beach telling them something like, "Your powers all deal damage based off of your weapon damage. Equip better weapons to increase your damage. You can compare your powers by looking at the magnitude value in their tooltip. This is the percentage of your weapon damage that a power deals before all other adjustments. While not the final damage number, it is a useful tool for comparing."

    Holy Moley!!!!
    That so makes sense!!!

    Thanks @silvergryph and @theycallmetomu for your help in getting my brain to wrap around that.

    So to make sure I got this straight, for example: a 200 magnitude power would do double the base weapon damage?
    That's the assumption, I haven't checked the math to make sure that that's correct on preview. But that's the logical read of how things are described.
    Yes, but again that is before any other modifiers and effects (including the damage bonus from your Power score, Armor Penetration, enemy Defense and Deflection, Crits, Combat Advantage, and so on...) so you are probably never going to see a damage number that is exactly weapon damage x magnitude. It is really only good for comparing damage between powers.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    drumon88 said:

    ZAX backlog is very long, and waiting several months is quite demotivating when there is no apparent progress. The minor improvements would be to show how big backlog is for specified posting, like adding message on tooltip "Before you 12,333,255 zen requests listed". In this way at least progress of listing could be checked. I think it would be a good QoL improvement for mod16.

    Also, please make all Zen store items account-bound. This will remove zen speculation component from store.

    I'd be happy if the backlog showed AT ALL for me. That screen's simply blank on all my characters.
    So let's say you want to buy zen. Well, it's a blank screen! Switch over to "sell" and you'll see all the people willing to buy at 500 AD per zen. That's the backlog.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    ZAX backlog is very long, and waiting several months is quite demotivating when there is no apparent progress. The minor improvements would be to show how big backlog is for specified posting, like adding message on tooltip "Before you 12,333,255 zen requests listed". In this way at least progress of listing could be checked. I think it would be a good QoL improvement for mod16.

    Also, please make all Zen store items account-bound. This will remove zen speculation component from store.

    Making all zen shop items account bound could go either way. On the one hand, it would kill zen speculation. But it doesn't actually reduce the NEED for zen. So all this really does is make it so people can't buy preservation wards off the AH.

    You could theoretically remove the AD cap for zen, but my guess is that would be disastrous, at least in the short run.
  • wisper2048wisper2048 Member Posts: 187 Arc User

    Making all zen shop items account bound could go either way. On the one hand, it would kill zen speculation. But it doesn't actually reduce the NEED for zen. So all this really does is make it so people can't buy preservation wards off the AH.

    There is 149 coals on market right now. There are more than 400 preses postings (some 99 some less). There are 113 completion tokens. Almost all these items are pure speculation (some small amount might have come from lockboxes). And I assume that some items are stockpiled, so they would not overflow the market. So more zen bought by those who do not need it. The cycle "zen-invoke or event discount-wards-ah-ad-zen" is a predictable income cycle, there is almost no risk in running it, and it creates ever increasing backlog, and backlog reinforces income from cycle. This is a vicious cycle with positive feedback.

    The people who speculate zen do not do any service to community. If they will buy account-bound wards and sell upgraded enchants, it will be at least some service to community, because it is some form of crafting, and there are risks involved (upgrade chances, enchant value changes, etc.).

    Acount-bound zen items would make market more targeted, only those who really need zen for something will post listings. There will be less middlemen that create delays in the process.
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