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Official M16: General Feedback

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  • eoleeeolee Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    http://prntscr.com/mt7wjg

    Also that. Quite dont understand the tooltip. How am I going to lose 7k crit when the shirt i wear only gives me 2.8k and 530 from enchant, so a whole 3.3k

    #Tooltip issues.
  • xsmallz14xxsmallz14x Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I honestly don't understand what it is with Dev's now a days wanting to just kill their games because that's what happened.... A changed needed to happen but yall went and just removed EVERYTHING also this game is so far from "Being closer to what DnD actually is" Its not even funny. Dev's you had a job to make a great game and you did the opposite congrats! You soon will be part of the all the layoffs in the gaming industry soon because you shot yourself in the foot with mod 16.

    This game was a great game I played this game for MANY years. I stuck through Mod 6.... and I've played on and off again a lot but.... yea with the direction of Mod 16 you just trying to kill this game. (Also happy 10th anniversary of HAMSTER mods with another one that is clever!!!)
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    So, I have on other objection:

    How am I supposed to get combat advantage as a solo player? If I go Wizard: Nightmare Wizardry route then I have *one* method. Why am I bringing this up? Because of the stupid fact that all this gear layers on thousands of points of CA bonus, and now I have no actual way of taking advantage of it!
  • sundancewanderingwolfsundancewanderingwolf Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I don't know if this was said or not but the Quest for the Yawning Portal doesn't always show up and the map allows you to skip getting the free gear before going to the portal. I missed out on that gear as have a couple other people I know. May want to make the quest force you to go to Moonstone or have Neverember or Knox give the quest rather than it auto going into your journal. So many things flash it's easy to miss it. Kinda was a bummer not to get the gear and to not be able to go back to claim it.
    Black Ice Enchants don't trade (I think this has been said?).
    Please add sliders on trading seals.
    Post edited by sundancewanderingwolf on
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    Dungeons on playtest are far too easy. I can still solo most dungeons without any chance of dying.

    For example, eLoL:


    Their work on dungeon are yet to complete as stated in the Official M16 - Overview.

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246302/official-m16-overview


    Please don't say dungeons are too easy to complete. It took me on a 19k respeced barbarian 30 minutes to complete the cloak tower.
    Guild Leader: Under the Influence
    Yule (Barb): 55k : Siren (TR): 60k : Torun (DC): 54k : Siren OP (OP): 59k : Siren SW (SW): 54k : Modern (F): 62k : Cherry1 (CW) : 48k Siren HR (HR): 54k
  • krzrsmskrzrsms Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    "if you genuinely enjoyed the buff/debuff focused gameplay of pre Module 16, there's not much I can say or do to dissuade you from that opinion"

    Gotta love it when a dev scoffs at their own product like this. ..imagine that, someone enjoying the dynamic of a game thats been a major component for years.

    Reading these threads just reinforces the observation that these guys just don't get it. They don't play their game enough to know and they called in the number crunchers to help them in alpha who don't play it for 'fun' but just to get more numbers as input.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    krzrsms said:

    "if you genuinely enjoyed the buff/debuff focused gameplay of pre Module 16, there's not much I can say or do to dissuade you from that opinion"

    Gotta love it when a dev scoffs at their own product like this. ..imagine that, someone enjoying the dynamic of a game thats been a major component for years.

    Reading these threads just reinforces the observation that these guys just don't get it. They don't play their game enough to know and they called in the number crunchers to help them in alpha who don't play it for 'fun' but just to get more numbers as input.

    I mean, it's also possible that one dev may be sympathetic, but The Higher Ups™ made an executive decision and It Is What It Is™

    I didn't like the way they handled debuffs. Ideally it felt to me like a party should have 1 debuffer, but there was no graceful way to prevent the optimal party from having 4.
  • yeenoghu#2009 yeenoghu Member Posts: 25 Arc User

    I mean, it's also possible that one dev may be sympathetic, but The Higher Ups™ made an executive decision and It Is What It Is™

    I didn't like the way they handled debuffs. Ideally it felt to me like a party should have 1 debuffer, but there was no graceful way to prevent the optimal party from having 4.


    Problem was, as the game was parties didn't have ONE debuffer only. Ideally, a proper game would be 1 tank, 3 dps and 1 healer. But the way classes were designed, dugneons weren't being played like that. I mean, Paladin, MOFs and Warlocks could debuff/buff. Even Clerics. Lots of buffs with the usual party comp runnign HR, GF's and more...

    The way game was, players were playing with more than one debuff so, rather than punish a class's tree feat, they decided to remove the whole overhwlming buffing that existed and remake things. Don't forget dungeons will also be changed to properly adapt to the new playstyle there will be (I hope).

    Therefore, raising the lvl cap to 80 is a way to properly ensure you relearn your class and a new playstyle. Play the game first once it's live, since Preview will always have things changed. Take time to get used like you would if they launched a new class and you had to learn it's rotations and mechanics. Then if it's good, Devs did a good job. If it's HAMSTER, then shame on them. Whoever plays for fun will remain since new fun content will always come up with new stories. Whoever plays to jsut play end-game and all that will eventually quit and stop playing certain alts.

    Honestly, changes got me more Hyped than before since the sheer idea of relearning class mechanics is a good test for veteran players (and any newbie won't lose much to try learn a new way of playing). But problem is, the way players abused class mechanics forced this type of change, I assume.
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User

    krzrsms said:

    "if you genuinely enjoyed the buff/debuff focused gameplay of pre Module 16, there's not much I can say or do to dissuade you from that opinion"

    Gotta love it when a dev scoffs at their own product like this. ..imagine that, someone enjoying the dynamic of a game thats been a major component for years.

    Reading these threads just reinforces the observation that these guys just don't get it. They don't play their game enough to know and they called in the number crunchers to help them in alpha who don't play it for 'fun' but just to get more numbers as input.

    I mean, it's also possible that one dev may be sympathetic, but The Higher Ups™ made an executive decision and It Is What It Is™

    I didn't like the way they handled debuffs. Ideally it felt to me like a party should have 1 debuffer, but there was no graceful way to prevent the optimal party from having 4.
    It would not be hard to cap debuffs from being culmelative and make 2nd+further useless that would be quite an easy task.

    As it is to late and as cryptic never ever change anything once they started rolling it out it feels pointless to even try to argue anything but obvious buggs. It is what it is and if enough players leave the game will sink into oblivion among all other games that failed when trying to change the game to much.

    There is still time and would not take to much change to let players create their own build in a creative enough way and the static combat could be at least fixed by cutting the damage and long downtime on encounters and up the damage on at wills.

    If they remove the 2 paths make a few new feats, change the feats being locked to powers and make utility feats ( more damage vs more def, more hp vs more deflect etc etc, that create different builds and let people pick the feats and powers for full tank, range, meele, dps or whatever between the system would as it is now maby allow enough theorycrafting to be fun.

    But alas I will not hold my breath and i can not see how they are going to be able to fix classes like the pal with this mess am afraid.....
  • krzrsmskrzrsms Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    "I mean, it's also possible that one dev may be sympathetic, but The Higher Ups™ made an executive decision and It Is What It Is™"

    Sure its possible, Id say even likely. Unfortunately that doesn't matter in the slightest. We have to deal with the product they release. Within that if they don't have the power to fight bad decision's within their organization, we experience the negative side effects. That is no reason for not pointing out the bad decisions, the lack of communication, the forseen consequences, or the general atmosphere of ill will thats being caused by their 'bull in a chinashop' fixes.

    " there was no graceful way to prevent the optimal party from having 4."

    There are a number of vocal people who felt that was a problem. There is also a large number of people that enjoyed having an important role and specifically played the game that enabled that role. People are already eulogizing their beloved characters they've spent years building and the complete change of role that they are being forced to accept.

    Even accepting the premise that buffing / debuffing to the extent its used in the game today is a problem, 'change is needed' is not an excuse for all change. That there is a problem of the extent of the contribution isnt to say that near deletion is a good solution.

    Conversely they have actually made some headway on that 'graceful way' recently. Kteam dungeons, often have a more traditional setup. Does everyone go for the 3 dps 2 support? No certainly not, but why should we be tied to that ancient dynamic either? The Old Tales event we had has opened up a new venue for -more- traditional groups. Those were changes that opened up more possibilities while still allowing others to pursue content with their power groups.

    It didnt have to be this way. Had they actually collaborated with the playerbase (not just a few number crunchers) instead of just dumping this on us they could have found different solutions or continued to release content for the game they made and we play. This instead of slapping loyal players, tearing near everything down, and hoping new people like whats left.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    How am I supposed to get combat advantage as a solo player

    Same way as you did before. You can have a (non-augment) companion and position yourself on the opposide side of the enemy ... or you can use a companion that automatically grants you CA - Dancing Blade is one...think there is another, but don't remember which one.


    Hoping for improvements...
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    marnival said:

    No, this module is not about rebalancing. It is about drastically reducing the complexity of the game, such that it becomes accessible to kids spending their parents money on open-world FPS.

    Reducing complexity, or "dumbing the game down" does indeed seem to be the theme ... maybe they are trying to simplify the code because the original development team is all gone and it is just too hard to maintain - killing the Foundry would suggest the same thing.

    Ah, well....maybe the game will be more appealing to 10-year olds now.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    How am I supposed to get combat advantage as a solo player

    Same way as you did before. You can have a (non-augment) companion and position yourself on the opposide side of the enemy ... or you can use a companion that automatically grants you CA - Dancing Blade is one...think there is another, but don't remember which one.


    Yeah, but before, I didn't have core gear pieces dedicating part of their layout to +CA, and if I really wanted CA, I could have it persistently active with a Nightmare Wizardry build.

    I guess Nightmare Wizardry does still technically work, but it's way less consistent than before.

    And as for companions, I use an augment!
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    krzrsms said:

    "if you genuinely enjoyed the buff/debuff focused gameplay of pre Module 16, there's not much I can say or do to dissuade you from that opinion"

    Gotta love it when a dev scoffs at their own product like this. ..imagine that, someone enjoying the dynamic of a game thats been a major component for years.

    Reading these threads just reinforces the observation that these guys just don't get it. They don't play their game enough to know and they called in the number crunchers to help them in alpha who don't play it for 'fun' but just to get more numbers as input.

    This absolutely echoes my experience.

    I don't play dungeons much so the buff stacking wasn't a positive or negative. The removal of lifesteal however makes soloing a lot less fun.

    I come from a background in CoH where buff stacking was waaaay worse than it is here and it was encouraged because it allowed you to play with a wide variety of parties rather than being straitjacketed by the holy trinity.

    This mod is made for you if you have one BiS character but is an absolute disaster if you have lots of midrange characters (I have 16 almost all 12-15.8K).

    It MASSIVELY dumbs down character creation, and I suspect once it shakes out, we will be back to one clearly best build with even less variation than before.

    I get a sense that the selection for alpha was UTTERLY wrong. You need a mix of people playing at a mix of ILs and skill levels with well, averagely and badly built and equipped characters. So you don't get the "everything's wonderful" from the playtesters who probably have exactly the playstyle you're aiming at.

    When people find that they can't solo stuff they're been able to for several years, it's really offputting. My 15K+s feel about as powerful as my 12-13Ks are in the current live environment.

    I think the wrong question was being asked when this module was in the planning stage and has been asked for the last few modules. The key question is "how do we make this more fun ?" rather than "how do we balance this ?" and I have not found a single thing in this module outside the VERY minor (ID scrolls) that adds anything to my experience (assuming new zones/content like every module has), and many many things that detract from it.

    Bear in mind not everybody plays this game to be challenged. There is a large community of people with physical and/or mental health issues who play the game to be "epic" when they already have enough challenges in real life. These people vary wildly in ability, but tend to share one thing, they invest massively emotionally in their characters, and really struggle when they're destroyed as badly as some are by this module. Also take a friend's position, he has a character that he plays in D&D and LARP and he is quite clearly a great weapon fighter in those environments, that he's played here since beta and is now being told he's a barbarian which utterly doesn't fit. Sometimes there are irrational things going on as well as the rational (he has a not particularly good active pet raised to legendary because it's what the character has), I don't expect him to stay after his VIP runs out.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    krzrsms said:

    "if you genuinely enjoyed the buff/debuff focused gameplay of pre Module 16, there's not much I can say or do to dissuade you from that opinion"

    Gotta love it when a dev scoffs at their own product like this. ..imagine that, someone enjoying the dynamic of a game thats been a major component for years.

    Reading these threads just reinforces the observation that these guys just don't get it. They don't play their game enough to know and they called in the number crunchers to help them in alpha who don't play it for 'fun' but just to get more numbers as input.

    This absolutely echoes my experience.

    I don't play dungeons much so the buff stacking wasn't a positive or negative. The removal of lifesteal however makes soloing a lot less fun.

    I come from a background in CoH where buff stacking was waaaay worse than it is here and it was encouraged because it allowed you to play with a wide variety of parties rather than being straitjacketed by the holy trinity.

    This mod is made for you if you have one BiS character but is an absolute disaster if you have lots of midrange characters (I have 16 almost all 12-15.8K).

    It MASSIVELY dumbs down character creation, and I suspect once it shakes out, we will be back to one clearly best build with even less variation than before.

    I get a sense that the selection for alpha was UTTERLY wrong. You need a mix of people playing at a mix of ILs and skill levels with well, averagely and badly built and equipped characters. So you don't get the "everything's wonderful" from the playtesters who probably have exactly the playstyle you're aiming at.

    When people find that they can't solo stuff they're been able to for several years, it's really offputting. My 15K+s feel about as powerful as my 12-13Ks are in the current live environment.

    I think the wrong question was being asked when this module was in the planning stage and has been asked for the last few modules. The key question is "how do we make this more fun ?" rather than "how do we balance this ?" and I have not found a single thing in this module outside the VERY minor (ID scrolls) that adds anything to my experience (assuming new zones/content like every module has), and many many things that detract from it.

    Bear in mind not everybody plays this game to be challenged. There is a large community of people with physical and/or mental health issues who play the game to be "epic" when they already have enough challenges in real life. These people vary wildly in ability, but tend to share one thing, they invest massively emotionally in their characters, and really struggle when they're destroyed as badly as some are by this module. Also take a friend's position, he has a character that he plays in D&D and LARP and he is quite clearly a great weapon fighter in those environments, that he's played here since beta and is now being told he's a barbarian which utterly doesn't fit. Sometimes there are irrational things going on as well as the rational (he has a not particularly good active pet raised to legendary because it's what the character has), I don't expect him to stay after his VIP runs out.
    See, the easy fix here would be to just *not have this stupid level scaling at all.*

    What's that? You're level 80, and you can just sneeze and kill Strahd? Good for you-you don't care about the gear from Barovia anymore because it's no longer even remotely usable. I still don't understand why the dev team thinks it's important for content from 5+ years ago to remain relevant to people who have long since grown bored by it.

    Without the level scaling, people wouldn't run into stupid walls of impassability, and could just do the content they want to do.
  • eoleeeolee Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    More hours spent trying to play Devout...And its still not that.

    After the feeling of being a whale swimming in a sea of glue as a Devout, the more hours i spend playing on preview the more it feels this way:

    Lets say im about to have dinner. I have choice between:
    1-processed food that i put in the microwave and come out already with salt and pepper, the meat the veggies the potatos. Added to that i take an ice cream in the freezer. Here is my processed meal. Thats mod 16. I have no more choice into making my meal the way i would like it. Maybe change a vegetable or two. Less pepper, less salt. More sauce. Have the meat a little more bloody. I cant do all that. Its all processed out of the industry. And we all eat the same processed meal. Its just premade and almost bit canned. No need to chew on it.

    2-a meal i would cook myself and think myself with my personal tastes. And it would taste better and i would enjoy it. A meal i would imagine since some time. A meal i could rethink and better. A meal i could do different variations of. That was Neverwinter classes builds before mod 16. And we had loadouts (sigh, 5 loadouts on my cleric just to be able to use 2 now)

    New Clerics to the game will probably enjoy it. They didnt get to eat the personalized meal. Processed is good when its the only thing people get to know since day 0.

    "Press Q and E to heal, press R to try to cast a shield, ask ur party to hold for a few, you need divinity, have them go for a smoke. Now is the time of your daily, please be careful, its almost a real daily. You'll only get to use it once in this dungeon because dont expect any AP gain from your heals (who said that healing was an action anyway)"

    Hope i wasnt too salty in my feedback. I didnt even feel like writing this in Cleric feedback would be of any use. It's true for every class i play since closed beta.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    There needs to be something to direct you to the campaign window when you need to unlock. I didn't stonewall there since I expected it to be a problem as it has been recently, but it is one that shouldn't exist. A player should never need to wander around guessing what to do next in a game of this sort.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    ilithyn said:

    asterdahl said:

    Aaaaannnnd sooo…. the Masterwork weapons and artifact gear are obsolete now. Again. Not to mention the rings/neck/waist pieces that can no longer be put on companions. Just like all the pessimists predicted with the Mod 15 professions overhaul. Why did you bother?

    The CTA weapons are even more obsolete, and if I have my IL reckoning right, so are the Tales of Old artifact sets.

    I was really hoping you wouldn’t do that. The IL boost to the MW weapons seemed to leave enough room to “fill in” spaces between them and primals, as the CTA weapons seemed to be doing. But no. The Undermountain weapons are not only stronger than MW III weapons, but *much* stronger (~30% at green).


    You could have added a Mythic level to weapons and artifact gear, that could only be unlocked once your character was level 80.

    Or just kept the level cap at 70, since Item Level long ago effectively replaced character level, and raising the cap doesn’t change that.

    There will be new masterwork recipes in the future. With a level cap increase, you're going to replace your old equipment all at once, I know this can be a bit frustrating—we don't do it lightly. However, I think it would be even more unexpected if your level 70 equipment were still best in slot when you hit level 80.
    Well, you could increase level requirement for masterwork weapons to 80 and increase item level of said weapons to be on par with new weapons.

    This way when people login theirs weapons would be automatically unequipped from theirs level 70 characters and they would have to wait until 80 to re-equip them.

    I bet they would prefer using a subpar replacement weapon from 70 to 80 than to feel that all AD spent last mod (to buy +1 weapons) only had endgame utility for one mod.
    Precisely this. I can't tell if @asterdahl is deliberately misreading or just flooded with information. No one is talking about 1-2 mod old weapons ect still being bis, we're talking about the heavy investments we've made being rendered completely useless and nonviable for endgame play at all over night. It's literally destroying every investment we've done into equipment, telling us to just start over without any compensation. It's not that weapons ects are no longer bis, we know damn well that every single mod will likely have something that's better and the ones that chases bis will go off after the new shiny, while the rest of us happily lag a few mods behind. That is something we can no longer do. We have to start chasing all new weapons ect and invest heavily, whether we want to or not, keeping older gear and being a bit sub par but still able to play, is something that cannot be done.

    And don't even start me on companions and their equipment, that's the biggest flip off of a playerbase I've seen in quite a while in an mmo. Maybe not the biggest ever, but along with everything else it's really impressive.
    Sorry, it's definitely the latter—I am not deliberately attempting to misread your feedback, there's just a lot of it. Masterwork is a very touchy subject, but whenever I've waded into the discussion, I've always said the same thing, which in this case, is not something that you're going to want to hear: equipment is equipment. Whether you obtain it via the auction house from a masterwork crafter, from a dungeon, or a trial—there will be a time when that equipment is replaced, and that's all there is to it.

    We won't be doing anything specific to allow you to "recoup your losses," for buying masterwork items. Please only buy masterwork equipment if you are prepared for the fact that you are buying equipment which will be outdated after a few modules. Masterwork equipment is meant to be a way to obtain very competitive equipment from other players using in-game currency, as opposed to completing difficult content to obtain it. It is not meant to specifically have a long lifespan than other equipment.

    That being said, when we did overhaul the entire professions system, we did increase the item level of all masterwork recipes—and I apologize if this gave anyone the sense that we were setting a precedent for raising the item level of masterwork items. This is something I would like to avoid ever doing again, but it was unavoidable at the time as not doing it would have put masterwork items in an extremely bizarre spot as were were making item level 400 equipment available from basic recipes. We're not aiming to do any completely redesigns of the professions system again that would require such drastic measures.

    I'm sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear. I do appreciate your feedback.
    I am much less concerned with existing MW items becoming useless than I am with the absence of new future masterwork-or even basic-recipes that are useful.

    Even something as simple as level 80 shirt/pants and level 80 blue gear that is craftable would be a huge improvement to "all professions equipment ends at level 70."

    Heck, even just higher level reinforcement kits would help. ANYTHING to make professions worthwhile. I know a lot of people act like the last professions change killed professions, but as someone who continually makes a fair amount of AD every day through it, I can assure you that it's not. But that's only because there's viable gear that can be made through both basic and masterwork paths.

    I mean, I won't like the grind to Masterwork VI, but at least having completed Masterwork V I can do it. So we need assurances there'll be a Masterwork VI! Otherwise why did I spend 8 mil AD on this Forgehammer?
    I'm sure there will be. it might not be in preview yet, or it might be mod 17. but surely they didn't make mod 15 all about mw to then abandon it next mod forever.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Really? Cause they just did a shitton of class overhaul to throw out the window overnight in M15.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    No campfire in the YP ?

    What campfire functionality are you looking for? It should be possible to change load outs and do most other things anywhere in the Yawning Portal.
    Invoking, wasn't allowed to

    Also how about VIP on the test server so we can see what's changed with say identify scrolls.

    there is nothing to identify anymore.. why should there be identify scrolls? although point taken on vip.. it would be nice to have in test.
    To see if they've simply short changed us on months of VIP I have left that I bought, the ID scrolls (meaning I could sell most I dropped) being a part of that investment, or were giving anything else instead.

    lmao, 25 scrolls is worth nearly 4 silver. you get more than that picking up junk off a couple trash mobs. a stack of them is worth nearly a gold and a half. this is something I can't put any heart behind and it doesn't take much to rally me up towards any cause.. so this one is really lacking any thing to get energetic about imo. I guess it would add up if they put 4 silver in each invoke pack but it still wouldn't inspire me to remember to take the pack every day on every alt. that's a lot of time for one gold over the course however long it takes to get a stack
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    ilithyn said:

    asterdahl said:

    Aaaaannnnd sooo…. the Masterwork weapons and artifact gear are obsolete now. Again. Not to mention the rings/neck/waist pieces that can no longer be put on companions. Just like all the pessimists predicted with the Mod 15 professions overhaul. Why did you bother?

    The CTA weapons are even more obsolete, and if I have my IL reckoning right, so are the Tales of Old artifact sets.

    I was really hoping you wouldn’t do that. The IL boost to the MW weapons seemed to leave enough room to “fill in” spaces between them and primals, as the CTA weapons seemed to be doing. But no. The Undermountain weapons are not only stronger than MW III weapons, but *much* stronger (~30% at green).


    You could have added a Mythic level to weapons and artifact gear, that could only be unlocked once your character was level 80.

    Or just kept the level cap at 70, since Item Level long ago effectively replaced character level, and raising the cap doesn’t change that.

    There will be new masterwork recipes in the future. With a level cap increase, you're going to replace your old equipment all at once, I know this can be a bit frustrating—we don't do it lightly. However, I think it would be even more unexpected if your level 70 equipment were still best in slot when you hit level 80.
    Well, you could increase level requirement for masterwork weapons to 80 and increase item level of said weapons to be on par with new weapons.

    This way when people login theirs weapons would be automatically unequipped from theirs level 70 characters and they would have to wait until 80 to re-equip them.

    I bet they would prefer using a subpar replacement weapon from 70 to 80 than to feel that all AD spent last mod (to buy +1 weapons) only had endgame utility for one mod.
    Precisely this. I can't tell if @asterdahl is deliberately misreading or just flooded with information. No one is talking about 1-2 mod old weapons ect still being bis, we're talking about the heavy investments we've made being rendered completely useless and nonviable for endgame play at all over night. It's literally destroying every investment we've done into equipment, telling us to just start over without any compensation. It's not that weapons ects are no longer bis, we know damn well that every single mod will likely have something that's better and the ones that chases bis will go off after the new shiny, while the rest of us happily lag a few mods behind. That is something we can no longer do. We have to start chasing all new weapons ect and invest heavily, whether we want to or not, keeping older gear and being a bit sub par but still able to play, is something that cannot be done.

    And don't even start me on companions and their equipment, that's the biggest flip off of a playerbase I've seen in quite a while in an mmo. Maybe not the biggest ever, but along with everything else it's really impressive.
    Sorry, it's definitely the latter—I am not deliberately attempting to misread your feedback, there's just a lot of it. Masterwork is a very touchy subject, but whenever I've waded into the discussion, I've always said the same thing, which in this case, is not something that you're going to want to hear: equipment is equipment. Whether you obtain it via the auction house from a masterwork crafter, from a dungeon, or a trial—there will be a time when that equipment is replaced, and that's all there is to it.

    We won't be doing anything specific to allow you to "recoup your losses," for buying masterwork items. Please only buy masterwork equipment if you are prepared for the fact that you are buying equipment which will be outdated after a few modules. Masterwork equipment is meant to be a way to obtain very competitive equipment from other players using in-game currency, as opposed to completing difficult content to obtain it. It is not meant to specifically have a long lifespan than other equipment.

    That being said, when we did overhaul the entire professions system, we did increase the item level of all masterwork recipes—and I apologize if this gave anyone the sense that we were setting a precedent for raising the item level of masterwork items. This is something I would like to avoid ever doing again, but it was unavoidable at the time as not doing it would have put masterwork items in an extremely bizarre spot as were were making item level 400 equipment available from basic recipes. We're not aiming to do any completely redesigns of the professions system again that would require such drastic measures.

    I'm sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear. I do appreciate your feedback.
    I am much less concerned with existing MW items becoming useless than I am with the absence of new future masterwork-or even basic-recipes that are useful.

    Even something as simple as level 80 shirt/pants and level 80 blue gear that is craftable would be a huge improvement to "all professions equipment ends at level 70."

    Heck, even just higher level reinforcement kits would help. ANYTHING to make professions worthwhile. I know a lot of people act like the last professions change killed professions, but as someone who continually makes a fair amount of AD every day through it, I can assure you that it's not. But that's only because there's viable gear that can be made through both basic and masterwork paths.

    I mean, I won't like the grind to Masterwork VI, but at least having completed Masterwork V I can do it. So we need assurances there'll be a Masterwork VI! Otherwise why did I spend 8 mil AD on this Forgehammer?
    I'm sure there will be. it might not be in preview yet, or it might be mod 17. but surely they didn't make mod 15 all about mw to then abandon it next mod forever.
    Yeah. People will probably grind out getting BiS gear-and then MW6 will drop making MW6 gear BiS.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    ilithyn said:

    asterdahl said:

    Aaaaannnnd sooo…. the Masterwork weapons and artifact gear are obsolete now. Again. Not to mention the rings/neck/waist pieces that can no longer be put on companions. Just like all the pessimists predicted with the Mod 15 professions overhaul. Why did you bother?

    The CTA weapons are even more obsolete, and if I have my IL reckoning right, so are the Tales of Old artifact sets.

    I was really hoping you wouldn’t do that. The IL boost to the MW weapons seemed to leave enough room to “fill in” spaces between them and primals, as the CTA weapons seemed to be doing. But no. The Undermountain weapons are not only stronger than MW III weapons, but *much* stronger (~30% at green).


    You could have added a Mythic level to weapons and artifact gear, that could only be unlocked once your character was level 80.

    Or just kept the level cap at 70, since Item Level long ago effectively replaced character level, and raising the cap doesn’t change that.

    There will be new masterwork recipes in the future. With a level cap increase, you're going to replace your old equipment all at once, I know this can be a bit frustrating—we don't do it lightly. However, I think it would be even more unexpected if your level 70 equipment were still best in slot when you hit level 80.
    Well, you could increase level requirement for masterwork weapons to 80 and increase item level of said weapons to be on par with new weapons.

    This way when people login theirs weapons would be automatically unequipped from theirs level 70 characters and they would have to wait until 80 to re-equip them.

    I bet they would prefer using a subpar replacement weapon from 70 to 80 than to feel that all AD spent last mod (to buy +1 weapons) only had endgame utility for one mod.
    Precisely this. I can't tell if @asterdahl is deliberately misreading or just flooded with information. No one is talking about 1-2 mod old weapons ect still being bis, we're talking about the heavy investments we've made being rendered completely useless and nonviable for endgame play at all over night. It's literally destroying every investment we've done into equipment, telling us to just start over without any compensation. It's not that weapons ects are no longer bis, we know damn well that every single mod will likely have something that's better and the ones that chases bis will go off after the new shiny, while the rest of us happily lag a few mods behind. That is something we can no longer do. We have to start chasing all new weapons ect and invest heavily, whether we want to or not, keeping older gear and being a bit sub par but still able to play, is something that cannot be done.

    And don't even start me on companions and their equipment, that's the biggest flip off of a playerbase I've seen in quite a while in an mmo. Maybe not the biggest ever, but along with everything else it's really impressive.
    Sorry, it's definitely the latter—I am not deliberately attempting to misread your feedback, there's just a lot of it. Masterwork is a very touchy subject, but whenever I've waded into the discussion, I've always said the same thing, which in this case, is not something that you're going to want to hear: equipment is equipment. Whether you obtain it via the auction house from a masterwork crafter, from a dungeon, or a trial—there will be a time when that equipment is replaced, and that's all there is to it.

    We won't be doing anything specific to allow you to "recoup your losses," for buying masterwork items. Please only buy masterwork equipment if you are prepared for the fact that you are buying equipment which will be outdated after a few modules. Masterwork equipment is meant to be a way to obtain very competitive equipment from other players using in-game currency, as opposed to completing difficult content to obtain it. It is not meant to specifically have a long lifespan than other equipment.

    That being said, when we did overhaul the entire professions system, we did increase the item level of all masterwork recipes—and I apologize if this gave anyone the sense that we were setting a precedent for raising the item level of masterwork items. This is something I would like to avoid ever doing again, but it was unavoidable at the time as not doing it would have put masterwork items in an extremely bizarre spot as were were making item level 400 equipment available from basic recipes. We're not aiming to do any completely redesigns of the professions system again that would require such drastic measures.

    I'm sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear. I do appreciate your feedback.
    I am much less concerned with existing MW items becoming useless than I am with the absence of new future masterwork-or even basic-recipes that are useful.

    Even something as simple as level 80 shirt/pants and level 80 blue gear that is craftable would be a huge improvement to "all professions equipment ends at level 70."

    Heck, even just higher level reinforcement kits would help. ANYTHING to make professions worthwhile. I know a lot of people act like the last professions change killed professions, but as someone who continually makes a fair amount of AD every day through it, I can assure you that it's not. But that's only because there's viable gear that can be made through both basic and masterwork paths.

    I mean, I won't like the grind to Masterwork VI, but at least having completed Masterwork V I can do it. So we need assurances there'll be a Masterwork VI! Otherwise why did I spend 8 mil AD on this Forgehammer?
    I'm sure there will be. it might not be in preview yet, or it might be mod 17. but surely they didn't make mod 15 all about mw to then abandon it next mod forever.
    Yeah. People will probably grind out getting BiS gear-and then MW6 will drop making MW6 gear BiS.
    chasing bis always hurts. lol. I don't generally do it. near bis is generally just about as good and far less heartache
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,346 Arc User



    I get a sense that the selection for alpha was UTTERLY wrong. You need a mix of people playing at a mix of ILs and skill levels with well, averagely and badly built and equipped characters. So you don't get the "everything's wonderful" from the playtesters who probably have exactly the playstyle you're aiming at.

    The bolded part is wrong.

    A majority of the testers are not math nerds and would duck out as soon as "lim f(x)" becomes required. The ratio was about 1: 5 for the ratio of math nerd to people with math aversion.

    And yes, there were testers with below average skill and "interesting" gear choices. Rest assured that their contributions also accounted for players that primarily solo or go in poor teams.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    ilithyn said:

    asterdahl said:

    Aaaaannnnd sooo…. the Masterwork weapons and artifact gear are obsolete now. Again. Not to mention the rings/neck/waist pieces that can no longer be put on companions. Just like all the pessimists predicted with the Mod 15 professions overhaul. Why did you bother?

    The CTA weapons are even more obsolete, and if I have my IL reckoning right, so are the Tales of Old artifact sets.

    I was really hoping you wouldn’t do that. The IL boost to the MW weapons seemed to leave enough room to “fill in” spaces between them and primals, as the CTA weapons seemed to be doing. But no. The Undermountain weapons are not only stronger than MW III weapons, but *much* stronger (~30% at green).


    You could have added a Mythic level to weapons and artifact gear, that could only be unlocked once your character was level 80.

    Or just kept the level cap at 70, since Item Level long ago effectively replaced character level, and raising the cap doesn’t change that.

    There will be new masterwork recipes in the future. With a level cap increase, you're going to replace your old equipment all at once, I know this can be a bit frustrating—we don't do it lightly. However, I think it would be even more unexpected if your level 70 equipment were still best in slot when you hit level 80.
    Well, you could increase level requirement for masterwork weapons to 80 and increase item level of said weapons to be on par with new weapons.

    This way when people login theirs weapons would be automatically unequipped from theirs level 70 characters and they would have to wait until 80 to re-equip them.

    I bet they would prefer using a subpar replacement weapon from 70 to 80 than to feel that all AD spent last mod (to buy +1 weapons) only had endgame utility for one mod.
    Precisely this. I can't tell if @asterdahl is deliberately misreading or just flooded with information. No one is talking about 1-2 mod old weapons ect still being bis, we're talking about the heavy investments we've made being rendered completely useless and nonviable for endgame play at all over night. It's literally destroying every investment we've done into equipment, telling us to just start over without any compensation. It's not that weapons ects are no longer bis, we know damn well that every single mod will likely have something that's better and the ones that chases bis will go off after the new shiny, while the rest of us happily lag a few mods behind. That is something we can no longer do. We have to start chasing all new weapons ect and invest heavily, whether we want to or not, keeping older gear and being a bit sub par but still able to play, is something that cannot be done.

    And don't even start me on companions and their equipment, that's the biggest flip off of a playerbase I've seen in quite a while in an mmo. Maybe not the biggest ever, but along with everything else it's really impressive.
    Sorry, it's definitely the latter—I am not deliberately attempting to misread your feedback, there's just a lot of it. Masterwork is a very touchy subject, but whenever I've waded into the discussion, I've always said the same thing, which in this case, is not something that you're going to want to hear: equipment is equipment. Whether you obtain it via the auction house from a masterwork crafter, from a dungeon, or a trial—there will be a time when that equipment is replaced, and that's all there is to it.

    We won't be doing anything specific to allow you to "recoup your losses," for buying masterwork items. Please only buy masterwork equipment if you are prepared for the fact that you are buying equipment which will be outdated after a few modules. Masterwork equipment is meant to be a way to obtain very competitive equipment from other players using in-game currency, as opposed to completing difficult content to obtain it. It is not meant to specifically have a long lifespan than other equipment.

    That being said, when we did overhaul the entire professions system, we did increase the item level of all masterwork recipes—and I apologize if this gave anyone the sense that we were setting a precedent for raising the item level of masterwork items. This is something I would like to avoid ever doing again, but it was unavoidable at the time as not doing it would have put masterwork items in an extremely bizarre spot as were were making item level 400 equipment available from basic recipes. We're not aiming to do any completely redesigns of the professions system again that would require such drastic measures.

    I'm sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear. I do appreciate your feedback.
    I am much less concerned with existing MW items becoming useless than I am with the absence of new future masterwork-or even basic-recipes that are useful.

    Even something as simple as level 80 shirt/pants and level 80 blue gear that is craftable would be a huge improvement to "all professions equipment ends at level 70."

    Heck, even just higher level reinforcement kits would help. ANYTHING to make professions worthwhile. I know a lot of people act like the last professions change killed professions, but as someone who continually makes a fair amount of AD every day through it, I can assure you that it's not. But that's only because there's viable gear that can be made through both basic and masterwork paths.

    I mean, I won't like the grind to Masterwork VI, but at least having completed Masterwork V I can do it. So we need assurances there'll be a Masterwork VI! Otherwise why did I spend 8 mil AD on this Forgehammer?
    I'm sure there will be. it might not be in preview yet, or it might be mod 17. but surely they didn't make mod 15 all about mw to then abandon it next mod forever.
    Yeah. People will probably grind out getting BiS gear-and then MW6 will drop making MW6 gear BiS.
    chasing bis always hurts. lol. I don't generally do it. near bis is generally just about as good and far less heartache
    I don't want new Masterwork gear in professions for mod 16-but I do want level 80 craftable shirt/pants that are if not BiS at least more useful than alternatives for some builds.
  • sundancewanderingwolfsundancewanderingwolf Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    The Ravenloft Oathlord's armor cannot be used to transmute (sad). I bought the new level 80 armor with seals, tried to change the appearance back to the Oathlord's armor (which is beautiful by the way) and it was a no go... I really hope this is fixed and I hate the super gody armor looks and prefer the more accurate plate mail look.
    Also the fashion from chult is still broken ie: the shirt fabric around the neck doesn't take (Chultan Merchant's Garb) while the head piece I believe had been previously fixed.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    I don't know if this was said or not but the Quest for the Yawning Portal doesn't always show up and the map allows you to skip getting the free gear before going to the portal. I missed out on that gear as have a couple other people I know. May want to make the quest force you to go to Moonstone or have Neverember or Knox give the quest rather than it auto going into your journal. So many things flash it's easy to miss it. Kinda was a bummer not to get the gear and to not be able to go back to claim it.
    Black Ice Enchants don't trade (I think this has been said?).
    Please add sliders on trading seals.

    are you talking about the chest at the end of the expedition? it didn't open for me either. I've done 2 expeditions now and it didn't open either time. the first time I was like oh neat totally new area, like the fact that I'm opening up the map as I go.. second time was like bah same map. so I"m suspecting the last time you go thru the chest lights up. the gear you are promised as part of the quest was given to me when I turned in my quest
  • seveninchbladeseveninchblade Member Posts: 75 Arc User

    I don't know if this was said or not but the Quest for the Yawning Portal doesn't always show up and the map allows you to skip getting the free gear before going to the portal. I missed out on that gear as have a couple other people I know. May want to make the quest force you to go to Moonstone or have Neverember or Knox give the quest rather than it auto going into your journal. So many things flash it's easy to miss it. Kinda was a bummer not to get the gear and to not be able to go back to claim it.
    Black Ice Enchants don't trade (I think this has been said?).
    Please add sliders on trading seals.

    are you talking about the chest at the end of the expedition? it didn't open for me either. I've done 2 expeditions now and it didn't open either time. the first time I was like oh neat totally new area, like the fact that I'm opening up the map as I go.. second time was like bah same map. so I"m suspecting the last time you go thru the chest lights up. the gear you are promised as part of the quest was given to me when I turned in my quest
    No, he's talking about the intro quest. You can skip the scene in the Moonstone Mask and go directly to the Yawning Portal, thereby missing out on the chest of gear.
    Charisma was my dump stat.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    I don't know if this was said or not but the Quest for the Yawning Portal doesn't always show up and the map allows you to skip getting the free gear before going to the portal. I missed out on that gear as have a couple other people I know. May want to make the quest force you to go to Moonstone or have Neverember or Knox give the quest rather than it auto going into your journal. So many things flash it's easy to miss it. Kinda was a bummer not to get the gear and to not be able to go back to claim it.
    Black Ice Enchants don't trade (I think this has been said?).
    Please add sliders on trading seals.

    are you talking about the chest at the end of the expedition? it didn't open for me either. I've done 2 expeditions now and it didn't open either time. the first time I was like oh neat totally new area, like the fact that I'm opening up the map as I go.. second time was like bah same map. so I"m suspecting the last time you go thru the chest lights up. the gear you are promised as part of the quest was given to me when I turned in my quest
    No, he's talking about the intro quest. You can skip the scene in the Moonstone Mask and go directly to the Yawning Portal, thereby missing out on the chest of gear.
    ah well I never got it. I never went to moonstone. i just went straight to it from the world map.
  • magneticmoosemagneticmoose Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    I'm hoping this is a feature and not a bug, but I was happily surprised to see that your companions are still active while getting training time in as well.

    One thing that has been bugging me is that the area of effect for healing shows up as a red zone on the ground, but so does enemy area of attack zones. Would it be possible to get a different color for healing area of effects vs danger areas? Maybe blue for healing and red for attack area's of effect? (just an idea)

    Now for the not so nice stuff:
    I'm getting a "You already have all of the items in this package" message while trying to open bags in my inventory (as of this posting the bags specifically are;
    Celestial Bags of Refining
    and Treasure Cache's purchased during the main intro story quest areas

    I'm not sure if this is intended or a bug, but naming your Companions doesn't seem possible when you are getting your first companion.
  • isaacorion#1994 isaacorion Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    Glancing at the new armors in Collections, a few points:
    A.) All the pants seem to be all defensive stats. Including the Assault and Raid versions. While I do find the idea of terrifically tanky trousers good, at the end of the day I am a warlock who needs a lot of Offensive stats. So could we get 1-2 of the pants turned to some OFF stats?
    A.2) By the same token, all of the Shirts were all Offensive stats. Including the Ward shirt (which, ironically, is the one shirt that had the combination of Offensive stats I wanted as I was browsing the collections page). Could we swing 1-2 of the Shirts over to the Defensive side of the stat tree as well?
    B.) The equip power on the Pants: Daily Reprieve. Paraphrase the effect: "Reduce daily cooldowns by 1 sec when you critically strike, 10 sec cd." I think I got it close to the wording, not looking at the tooltip. This effect baffled me when it premiered in M13 cause at the time only 2 classes had cooldowns on their dailies (HR and DC's Hallowed Ground, and Hallowed Ground may not have been CD-gated back then either). It's return is odd, cause most classes aren't going to get any use out of this effect since our Dailies don't have cooldowns outside of refilling the AP gauge.

    And finally some nitpicky notes:
    On SW "Successor" and "Protégé" sets - the lowest piece of the chest armor clips with the character's leg on the right side (but not the left), and on the boots armor the left boot has some of the character's pants clipping through it as well (but not the right boot). Noticed on a slim build male Moon Elf, with little to no further customizations done on legs aside from making me a bit taller.
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
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