Celestial pact for Warlocks is in Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
Thank you for pointing this out. I'm falling behind on the times here! I actually really like the idea of a Celestial pact. I suppose they did it to make the class viable for people who aren't into that infernal junk, plus it's kind of silly to ignore the potential for patrons in other alignments. I liked some of the playbuilds I was reading about in different forums.
I'd be onboard with a Celestial pact in Neverwinter if it was a Celestial pact - with the appropriate character questline. Does it seem to you like that's what the devs are aiming at? Otherwise, simply assigning a healing role to a Warlock with an infernal patron is still preposterous. Last time I looked, belial wasn't the patron fiend of nurses and aloe vera farmers.
But isn't that just basically a cleric? The point of a Warlock was that they were the anti-hero, a flawed person with a dark past that is always just in the background ready to envelop them if they stray too far from trying to do good. They are like Anne Rice's vampires that only kill the evil do'er to feed. Like Spawn.
Those tanking changes make no sense to me. So are they going to give Fighters, Barbarians (Did this really need to be changed btw?!) and Pally's huge hp pools? Even then, with AC and such going away and the way npcs hit I see me holding my shield up for one hit and then eating it in the face as the healer spams saying a prayer.
From what it sounds like, they are turning OPs and GF shields into HP????? What? Are these shield made of their own flesh? Are they projected from their life force?
I'm sorry but that is just stupid, along with armor having HP. The only reason that would work is if it is beaten and destroyed with use.
Maybe it does turn into a disaster, but I am not going to assume the worst. I want this to be a success. I want it to be the best thing to happen to Neverwinter ever, and I think that there is hope because the old path was headed for nowhere. There were a few classes everyone wanted (as long as they were "built right") and a whole bunch that didn't matter. A few builds that you had to have to make the team and a whole lot more that would get you nothing but kicked.
That is not good for a game, no matter how much some people might enjoy being one of the overpowered chosen few.
Now, hopefully, every healing class will be able to heal effectively. Every DPS class will be a good DPSer. Every tank class will make a good tank. And they will all get to do it with a particular style and visual flair that they enjoy. They will all get to do it while still being able to pick some different feats along the way and not destroying their build as a result.
But we will see.
-edited for readability, see full post above-
You seem to have a lot of faith that they devs actually play this game or listen/care about/implement feedback. And if they did, discussing our concerns on their official forum is exactly what we SHOULD be doing. I work in IT, I go through our internal blogs from our customers looking for any indication of issues all the time. Some are valid, some are not. But suggesting that after reading the dev blog post that we should just be silent with any concerns is ridiculous.
Frankly I am not even "concerned", I enjoy the game and like to discuss and debate topics about it. This is one of them.
Those tanking changes make no sense to me. So are they going to give Fighters, Barbarians (Did this really need to be changed btw?!) and Pally's huge hp pools? Even then, with AC and such going away and the way npcs hit I see me holding my shield up for one hit and then eating it in the face as the healer spams saying a prayer.
It depends. If you are of the opinion that nothing needed to be changed, then no, it did not. However, if you like all of the other name changes... then yes it did need to be changed. There are two "fighters" after all.
Those tanking changes make no sense to me. So are they going to give Fighters, Barbarians (Did this really need to be changed btw?!) and Pally's huge hp pools? Even then, with AC and such going away and the way npcs hit I see me holding my shield up for one hit and then eating it in the face as the healer spams saying a prayer.
From what it sounds like, they are turning OPs and GF shields into HP????? What? Are these shield made of their own flesh? Are they projected from their life force?
I'm sorry but that is just stupid, along with armor having HP. The only reason that would work is if it is beaten and destroyed with use.
Actually this introduces a valid principle when fighting against someone with a shield. In many cases you would have to beat down their guard to reach the vulnerable soft parts behind them. In this case the "guard" is the tanks shield and when the tank has taken a sufficient amount of blows to their shield, the guard fails, and they are forced to reset. Wouldn't need to destroy the shield, more like blunt force dmg to the arm behind the shield.
lots of changes at once, it's a hit or miss. I hope devs are ready for the month of playtest, because you will see the biggest amount of feedbacks ever.
I just hope they LISTEN this time. For mod 6 we gave them three months of feedback between January and April and they didn't listen to any of it.
I'm sure they will listen, I mean they did listen to everyone stating hunts were bugged prior to mod 14 being launched. Oh wait, they didn't. They listened when mod 15 launched and were informed of bugs for profession. Oh wait, nope they didn't and I'm a great example of that as I'm still waiting for a fix so I can actually do my professions.
Celestial pact for Warlocks is in Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
Thank you for pointing this out. I'm falling behind on the times here! I actually really like the idea of a Celestial pact. I suppose they did it to make the class viable for people who aren't into that infernal junk, plus it's kind of silly to ignore the potential for patrons in other alignments. I liked some of the playbuilds I was reading about in different forums.
I'd be onboard with a Celestial pact in Neverwinter if it was a Celestial pact - with the appropriate character questline. Does it seem to you like that's what the devs are aiming at? Otherwise, simply assigning a healing role to a Warlock with an infernal patron is still preposterous. Last time I looked, belial wasn't the patron fiend of nurses and aloe vera farmers.
To put it simple the game needed a 3rd healer role. I don't see rangers, wizards or rogues filling that role. So warlock it is.
Read one post that recommended playing as a cleric for 12 levels, then switching over. Didn't really get into it, but it seems the warlock can make good use of Sacred Flame. Only eight levels in warlock, but that particular build relied heavily on the Eldritch Blast cantrip.
So I know we're most likely not gonna get it, but I'm just saying, now would be the absolute best time to release a new class.
As of last October:
On new classes: “We have no plans on the books to introduce a new class. That’s not to say we haven’t discussed it, but it’s not even penciled in.”
Absolutely no reason not to add new classes with M16. Now is the time to do it. New Classes and Races.
Too bad you cannot change character class type like in DDO. Should be given option to reroll toon and all equipment should convert to that character type.
Why exactly a barbarian? Tired of the fact that in most MMO games, classes with two-handed weapons are most often called barbarians or berserks. In this game we were a warrior, and I liked it, I liked that in this respect the game was original in its own way. Yes, this class was a cross between a barbarian and a warrior, but from the warrior there was much more in it than from a barbarian. Yes, and so with all classes. That's just why the Guardian Fighter was renamed the warrior, and not the guard or the commander? After all, is it not as much of a warrior in him as in a Great Weapon Fighter? Maybe you rename the Great Weapon Fighter for example in the Warmaster? Or maybe then a Great Weapon Fighter could be called a warrior, and a Guardian Fighter called a guard?
Because this is a game based on Dungeons and Dragons. The GWF was already a Barbarian in all but name in the way it played and how its features functioned. Whereas the GF was more akin to the standard Fighter class in D&D. And none of your suggested names are D&D classes, so they're definitely not going to be used as names for a class in a game based on D&D.
This game is only based on D&D in name. The character classes only in name. If you want to play a real game based on D&D, play DDO.
Where are the options for weapon types? Slashing or Bludgeoning? Weaknesses and Strengths? THF,TWF, or Sword & Shield. Each Fighter type (Pally,Fighter, Barb,Ranger) should have options. Instead all regulated to one type...
This game is only based on D&D in name. The character classes only in name. If you want to play a real game based on D&D, play DDO.
Where are the options for weapon types? Slashing or Bludgeoning? Weaknesses and Strengths? THF,TWF, or Sword & Shield. Each Fighter type (Pally,Fighter, Barb,Ranger) should have options. Instead all regulated to one type...
They are all "regulated" to one type? Regulated? Really?
Only three classes, the ranger, rogue, and wizard, are relegated (and even then, only by some definitions of the word) to "one type", one role (DPS). But that doesn't mean that they do not have options, as they will have two paragon paths to choose from and each path contains choices.
For every other class the paragon path will determine the role they take, but again, each path contains options.
And, if you do not like the options given to some class in terms of main-hand/off-hand choices then you always have the option to choose another class.
That is actually one of the things that worry me about this: Up to now NW has had excellent variation between the classes. Tanking on an OP has been hugely different from tanking on a GF, GWF dps has been very different from TR dps.
I really hope they manage to keep the differences between the classes and don't make cookie cutter tank-heal-dps.
Celestial pact for Warlocks is in Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
Thank you for pointing this out. I'm falling behind on the times here! I actually really like the idea of a Celestial pact. I suppose they did it to make the class viable for people who aren't into that infernal junk, plus it's kind of silly to ignore the potential for patrons in other alignments. I liked some of the playbuilds I was reading about in different forums.
I'd be onboard with a Celestial pact in Neverwinter if it was a Celestial pact - with the appropriate character questline. Does it seem to you like that's what the devs are aiming at? Otherwise, simply assigning a healing role to a Warlock with an infernal patron is still preposterous. Last time I looked, belial wasn't the patron fiend of nurses and aloe vera farmers.
But isn't that just basically a cleric? The point of a Warlock was that they were the anti-hero, a flawed person with a dark past that is always just in the background ready to envelop them if they stray too far from trying to do good. They are like Anne Rice's vampires that only kill the evil do'er to feed. Like Spawn.
Absolutely no reason not to add new classes with M16. Now is the time to do it. New Classes and Races.
Too bad you cannot change character class type like in DDO. Should be given option to reroll toon and all equipment should convert to that character type.
Except that they obviously haven't dedicated time and manpower to it since they were busy, you know, basically rewriting the entire game for this mod.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
This game is only based on D&D in name. The character classes only in name. If you want to play a real game based on D&D, play DDO.
Where are the options for weapon types? Slashing or Bludgeoning? Weaknesses and Strengths? THF,TWF, or Sword & Shield. Each Fighter type (Pally,Fighter, Barb,Ranger) should have options. Instead all regulated to one type...
They are all "regulated" to one type? Regulated? Really?
Only three classes, the ranger, rogue, and wizard, are relegated (and even then, only by some definitions of the word) to "one type", one role (DPS). But that doesn't mean that they do not have options, as they will have two paragon paths to choose from and each path contains choices.
For every other class the paragon path will determine the role they take, but again, each path contains options.
And, if you do not like the options given to some class in terms of main-hand/off-hand choices then you always have the option to choose another class.
Options all over the place.
When I mean regulated, I mean to one weapon style. Actually I guess Ranger is only class not regulated to one type. Since they can switch between Bow and TWF.
Why cannot a OP switch between THF and Sword & Shield? An OP doesn't need to be a Tank all the time.
And when are they actually going to use Stats correctly in this game. Strength should be universal to all Weapon Damage.
My point is that this game is not D&D! The setting is, but the toons are not.
I would like to see them make the classes more D&D like, And less WOW.
Wizard is only a DPS class, however I Don't wonder if one of the paragrons won't be more control oriented instead of dps. Will be interesting to see.
Doubtful, as Control is being removed from the class name.
Although it may be true that control is being removed, there is no reason to assume so solely on the basis that there are no paragon paths that are control oriented.
This is not, after all, a change from the game as it currently stands: control is not the central feature of paragon paths, be it for CWs or HRs. Instead, control comes primarily through class mechanics that are enhanced through feat trees (oppressor and trapper, respectively).
Given that no details have been released about reworks to feats, assumptions that control is being removed as a mechanic simply because 'control wizards' are being renamed 'wizards' seem ill-founded.
Sooooo, what about all those powerpoints that people paid Zen (and some real money to buy Zen) for? I mean I never did it but this is not just a nerf, it completely removes something that people actually paid real money for. How are they going to square that circle? Zen refunds?
You might have a case for someone who did this last week. Otherwise, people got value for what they paid for which is time saving.
Those tanking changes make no sense to me. So are they going to give Fighters, Barbarians (Did this really need to be changed btw?!) and Pally's huge hp pools? Even then, with AC and such going away and the way npcs hit I see me holding my shield up for one hit and then eating it in the face as the healer spams saying a prayer.
From what it sounds like, they are turning OPs and GF shields into HP????? What? Are these shield made of their own flesh? Are they projected from their life force?
I'm sorry but that is just stupid, along with armor having HP. The only reason that would work is if it is beaten and destroyed with use.
Actually this introduces a valid principle when fighting against someone with a shield. In many cases you would have to beat down their guard to reach the vulnerable soft parts behind them. In this case the "guard" is the tanks shield and when the tank has taken a sufficient amount of blows to their shield, the guard fails, and they are forced to reset. Wouldn't need to destroy the shield, more like blunt force dmg to the arm behind the shield.
What you are talking about is stamina, not HPs. A weight lifter might have a lot of HPs but very little in stamina but a long distance runner has plenty of stamina but little in HPs.
Stamina can be altered by all kinds of things like feats, mount bonuses, etc.
If you are not using rules about destroying equipment with hits, then a shield should simply block X % of hits. Currently this is judged by your stamina and using your class mechanic to raise it. The OP can't perform any other action when raised, the GF can still make attacks.
The new system suggest you still use stamina with the class mech but, somehow, the shield is tied to your HP... in ways. Again, this makes no logical sense whatsoever.
When I mean regulated, I mean to one weapon style. Actually I guess Ranger is only class not regulated to one type. Since they can switch between Bow and TWF.
You mean when you say regulated. When you say regulated you mean "regulated to one weapon type".
That is some really sketchy sentence structure and it's also completely false. There are axes, swords, maces hammers... Many weapon types that the classes that actually wield weapons can use. And the reason that you can not switch from sword and shield to a two-handed weapon is called "game balance". If I could be a tank (sword and shield) when I wanted to be a tank and then become DPS (two-handed weapon) at any time and then switch back to a tank then I am really a DPS class that can tank, or a tank that deals high DPS if you prefer. Either way creates a game imbalance.
Sure, the game could have been built to allow such things, along with multi-classing and other things, but it wasn't. It never had such things. This new mod doesn't change anything having to do with any of that.
But if this is so bad and DDO is so good then why are you here anyway?
Why do you care about the changes? You should have come here, learned in short order that this wasn't "real" D&D and went back to DDO if "real" D&D was what you wanted.
Personally, I think that only PnP D&D, no matter the edition, is "real" D&D.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
I've never played DDO, but if mod 16 is anywhere near as bad as I think it will be that's where I'm headed.
I’m excited. People have been complaining that last time they attempted a massive overhaul with level increase (mod6) has been a disaster, and I agree. But I’m willing to give the devs the benefit of the doubt this time because I’ve seen a lot of positive changes in the last year or so. And it sounds like the ARE listening, despite what the perpetual haters say. I mean we’ve been asking for all feat trees and paragon paths to be viable. We’ve been asking to bring healing back. We’ve been complaining about the era of one-shot bosses. I can’t wait to see how many things they’ll get right this time.
Only thing I regret is that I haven’t seen anything about control making a comeback, which is a bummer. But who knows, maybe that’ll still be part of the package.
lol we ask for all to be viable so they give us two builds we can have. one for each paragon.... with few choices per build.. yeah that's what we wanted.
I will wait and see how it goes. The professions mod was a bust for me. I quit doing professions. I just hope it isn't so bad that I lose all my active long term people.
I actually ended up liking the professions thing. however, it was busted to be incompletely playable for me. I did mw 3 armorsmithing and didn't get the recipes. some things are required from there to do other things. it makes it far more expensive if you have to purchase. I spent many millions of dollars trying to get everything leveled up to avoid having to buy more than mats.. and then this announcement of mod 16 basically made me just sell all mats and get out of the mw business for the moment. I don't trust that anything will remain relevant going into mod 16. but yah.. it was busted. and I really don't know why they messed with classes at all as part of that mod instead of JUST doing mw if that's what they wanted to do.. but why did they do mw right before they nuke everything to the ground?
When I mean regulated, I mean to one weapon style. Actually I guess Ranger is only class not regulated to one type. Since they can switch between Bow and TWF.
You mean when you say regulated. When you say regulated you mean "regulated to one weapon type".
That is some really sketchy sentence structure and it's also completely false. There are axes, swords, maces hammers... Many weapon types that the classes that actually wield weapons can use. And the reason that you can not switch from sword and shield to a two-handed weapon is called "game balance". If I could be a tank (sword and shield) when I wanted to be a tank and then become DPS (two-handed weapon) at any time and then switch back to a tank then I am really a DPS class that can tank, or a tank that deals high DPS if you prefer. Either way creates a game imbalance.
Sure, the game could have been built to allow such things, along with multi-classing and other things, but it wasn't. It never had such things. This new mod doesn't change anything having to do with any of that.
But if this is so bad and DDO is so good then why are you here anyway?
Why do you care about the changes? You should have come here, learned in short order that this wasn't "real" D&D and went back to DDO if "real" D&D was what you wanted.
Personally, I think that only PnP D&D, no matter the edition, is "real" D&D.
I disagree that switching between THF and Sword & Board would create game imbalance. Because a Tank is not DPS to begin with. And would only have slightly more DPS while using THF. A DPS toon with THF would still have more DPS. Options are never bad.
And switching between fighting styles is not multi-classing.
Read the forums and you will see that many folks are complaining that Simplistic Toon's are becoming more Generic.
And whats the point of axes, swords, maces etc, if they all have the same damage type. And no differences besides appearance.
I have an investment in this game like you do. Obviously I played DDO way longer and would like NWN to become more like it. I know that's not going to happen. DDO became boring after 10+ years. NWN has it's advantages and disadvantages. Character options is not one of them. Improving that may go a long way.
Here's to hoping NWN Characters will not become even more Generic. I will wait and see. And then I maybe telling myself, why am I playing NWN? Along what appears to be many others. You maybe playing alone!!!
And yes PnP D&D is real D&D. I used to play a long time ago. Loved it, but you need a good GM. And not the D&D from the "Big Bang Theory". That is silly.
Comments
I'm sorry but that is just stupid, along with armor having HP. The only reason that would work is if it is beaten and destroyed with use.
You seem to have a lot of faith that they devs actually play this game or listen/care about/implement feedback. And if they did, discussing our concerns on their official forum is exactly what we SHOULD be doing. I work in IT, I go through our internal blogs from our customers looking for any indication of issues all the time. Some are valid, some are not. But suggesting that after reading the dev blog post that we should just be silent with any concerns is ridiculous.
Frankly I am not even "concerned", I enjoy the game and like to discuss and debate topics about it. This is one of them.
I'm pretty sure this time they will listen.
Too bad you cannot change character class type like in DDO. Should be given option to reroll toon and all equipment should
convert to that character type.
play DDO.
Where are the options for weapon types? Slashing or Bludgeoning? Weaknesses and Strengths?
THF,TWF, or Sword & Shield. Each Fighter type (Pally,Fighter, Barb,Ranger) should have options.
Instead all regulated to one type...
Only three classes, the ranger, rogue, and wizard, are relegated (and even then, only by some definitions of the word) to "one type", one role (DPS). But that doesn't mean that they do not have options, as they will have two paragon paths to choose from and each path contains choices.
For every other class the paragon path will determine the role they take, but again, each path contains options.
And, if you do not like the options given to some class in terms of main-hand/off-hand choices then you always have the option to choose another class.
Options all over the place.
Up to now NW has had excellent variation between the classes. Tanking on an OP has been hugely different from tanking on a GF, GWF dps has been very different from TR dps.
I really hope they manage to keep the differences between the classes and don't make cookie cutter tank-heal-dps.
Even if that makes it harder to balance things.
Too late for major changes now anyways I guess.
Deadpool is a Warlock.
Co-Guild Leader
Ghost Templars L20
Alliance: Tyrs Paladium
Main: Cleric (Heals|DPS)
Alt: Warlock
Since they can switch between Bow and TWF.
Why cannot a OP switch between THF and Sword & Shield? An OP doesn't need to be a Tank all the time.
And when are they actually going to use Stats correctly in this game. Strength should be universal to all Weapon Damage.
My point is that this game is not D&D! The setting is, but the toons are not.
I would like to see them make the classes more D&D like, And less WOW.
This is not, after all, a change from the game as it currently stands: control is not the central feature of paragon paths, be it for CWs or HRs. Instead, control comes primarily through class mechanics that are enhanced through feat trees (oppressor and trapper, respectively).
Given that no details have been released about reworks to feats, assumptions that control is being removed as a mechanic simply because 'control wizards' are being renamed 'wizards' seem ill-founded.
Stamina can be altered by all kinds of things like feats, mount bonuses, etc.
If you are not using rules about destroying equipment with hits, then a shield should simply block X % of hits. Currently this is judged by your stamina and using your class mechanic to raise it. The OP can't perform any other action when raised, the GF can still make attacks.
The new system suggest you still use stamina with the class mech but, somehow, the shield is tied to your HP... in ways. Again, this makes no logical sense whatsoever.
That is some really sketchy sentence structure and it's also completely false. There are axes, swords, maces hammers... Many weapon types that the classes that actually wield weapons can use.
And the reason that you can not switch from sword and shield to a two-handed weapon is called "game balance". If I could be a tank (sword and shield) when I wanted to be a tank and then become DPS (two-handed weapon) at any time and then switch back to a tank then I am really a DPS class that can tank, or a tank that deals high DPS if you prefer. Either way creates a game imbalance.
Sure, the game could have been built to allow such things, along with multi-classing and other things, but it wasn't. It never had such things. This new mod doesn't change anything having to do with any of that.
But if this is so bad and DDO is so good then why are you here anyway?
Why do you care about the changes? You should have come here, learned in short order that this wasn't "real" D&D and went back to DDO if "real" D&D was what you wanted.
Personally, I think that only PnP D&D, no matter the edition, is "real" D&D.
it just makes you want to cry lol.
to begin with. And would only have slightly more DPS while using THF. A DPS toon with THF would still have more DPS.
Options are never bad.
And switching between fighting styles is not multi-classing.
Read the forums and you will see that many folks are complaining that Simplistic Toon's are becoming more Generic.
And whats the point of axes, swords, maces etc, if they all have the same damage type. And no differences besides appearance.
I have an investment in this game like you do. Obviously I played DDO way longer and would like NWN to become more like it.
I know that's not going to happen. DDO became boring after 10+ years. NWN has it's advantages and disadvantages.
Character options is not one of them. Improving that may go a long way.
Here's to hoping NWN Characters will not become even more Generic. I will wait and see. And then I maybe telling
myself, why am I playing NWN? Along what appears to be many others. You maybe playing alone!!!
And yes PnP D&D is real D&D. I used to play a long time ago. Loved it, but you need a good GM.
And not the D&D from the "Big Bang Theory". That is silly.