kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited November 2018
it already is at 75% healing depression ..except for certain items like the Lion that needs a MAJOR NERF FIX
furthermore I already said that in this thread ... thanks for seconding the motion
"time to increase the tenacity values in pvp now across the board " Ya people were tankier in mod 10 and not dying but that was cause crit was bugged in pvp back then
0
deathklaat666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 61Arc User
Thank you All for your input, i wasn't quite meaning to take aim at GF's directly. I see the damage from each class up, the ones I listed at the start of this thread were just a few that came right to mind.
Thank you All for your input, i wasn't quite meaning to take aim at GF's directly. I see the damage from each class up, the ones I listed at the start of this thread were just a few that came right to mind.
yep, but something is definitely up, even I on my pally see that from time to time I do MASSIVE damage that i never did before.
Did some ACT runs in matches today while testing my archer build. Damage reduction is working. On dummies with aimed shot and commanding I do average hits of 250-300k, spiking once in a blue moon at 400k. In pvp dom however, act tells me overall average hits with aimed are 25-30k.
The odd massive hits I do get are when the enemy is proned, running away at max range, or has had their DR shredded.
This just means GF 2 shot combos must be doing absolutely insane base damage. Kinda jealous tbh. I thought my base damage was damn good, but meh, apparantly not.
All those archers in pvp. Lol. Sure it isn't just me..?
Mod 13 I was hitting ridiculously hard. Mod 14 I think people tanked up a bit, and the new eclipse enchant meant a lot of my damage was being deflected. Either way, last mod was a lot tougher than the previous one. Mod 15 swapped vorpal for dread, and seem to be hitting harder than mod 14, probably due to better penetration. Lacking a lot of crit though now, thnx to the nerf on stillness. And of course being 1 and 2 shot by the nearest GF. Looking at you godfinder and Brutal.
How do you feel about DCs and Devotion OPs right now? We've seen these specs become too powerful when the healing suppression is smaller. It hasn't been uncommon for players who form their own private matches to ban DCs because of their strength in the past.
How do you feel about DCs and Devotion OPs right now? We've seen these specs to become too powerful when the healing suppression is smaller. It hasn't been uncommon for players who form their own private matches to ban DCs because of their strength in the past.
devo OP is propably more " fine " then dc since their healing has counterplay like cc that turns it off, or burst dmg. while dc can put out heal during CC but i do thing that reducing healing is VERY dangerous
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
again to repeat myself.. the dc and pally were too powerful/ immortal because crit was not working in pvp(bugged formulae it was doing less damage then non crits ) so there was not enough burst to take people down .also i dont know where these stats come from that they were shunned in private matches where is this data coming from .also some healing boons had no cooldown (cold shoulder) negating any attack less then 10,00 hitpoints also making everyone tankier
also your broken invisible rings(at the time ) /shadowclad armor enchant making people intargetable and immortal too
..also dont forget pally when first introduced had an insane broken amount of temp hit points cause armor pen on bosses was bugged( and they needed to soak massive amounts of damage for thier team )and then the devs fixed that bug but never fixed/ adjusted the temp hitpoints
also how about adjusting healing depression differently on those classs then if you feel they will be immortal
also dont forget about the boon that lowers healing in pvp as well making it 100% healing depression when its active
also how about fixing the lack of healing depression on the lion temp hitpoints then that make classes even tankier if that is what you are worried about.. you also removed most prones from pvp yet again allow the lion to prone.. maybe the lion should a effect only the player in pvp and not grant his whole team temp hitpoints not very balanced if you ask me
why should it be 1 mount to rule them all in pvp its not lord of the rings here ( the lion and no variety) same like weapon enchant and arm in prior mods or the lothmount set .. the devs wanted players to have a choice/ variety not one go to default must have that seperate people the haves from the have nots more to come as i think of it
and after all this discussion the one question to ask of the comunity is How do you feel about DCs and Devotion OPs right now Really ..Really ?
how about address your broken CC pvp imunity system as a question or other juicer topics like fixing broken pvp stuff or why you removed the one measly blood ruby reward that was encouraging people to pvp in strongholds
How do you feel about DCs and Devotion OPs right now? We've seen these specs to become too powerful when the healing suppression is smaller. It hasn't been uncommon for players who form their own private matches to ban DCs because of their strength in the past.
I do not play OP or DC so how much I can weigh in is limited, here are my basic observations:
OPs and DCs are both mortal right now but are still difficult to kill if they are built well (which is good). Their damage output is weirdly dangerous this mod as I mentioned earlier but its still significantly less damage than GFs, SWs, TRs, Archer HRs, and CWs get.
DCs seem to be in a decent spot right now in PVP, they are still strong but not unreasonably strong.
OPs were concerned about a month ago that they would be too weak this module in PVP because of that gloaming cut TR scare thread. So far, they don't appear to be as weak as they thought they were going to be but they do seem weaker than in module 14. Healing OPs are still difficult to take down unless you gank or one shot them. The way OPs work still feels cheesy and simple when I fight them but they aren't too strong.
Matches where teams have 2 OPs or 2 DCs per team are still dull but I haven't encountered any immortal teams lately.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Few Other Observations:
As a result of damage spiking higher and higher over the last few modules, large amounts of defensive stats like lifesteal, deflect, defense, HP, no longer seem to be as problematic as they were. There is still a noticeable difference between a player that is built really tanky and one that isn't but I have yet to encounter a single immortal player this module, which is good.
For the swift golden lion mount, it used to cause way more issues in PVP than it has within the last few modules. Damage has gone up enough that the temp HP I get from my lion is consumed within only a couple hits and I can do the same to other players. The temp HP does aid survival but its not something that reliably saves my butt, I started to notice this around mod 13/14 and it still seems to be the case in module 15.
The lion does still unbalance matches if one team has a lot of players with them and the other team does not. It also adds to the bombardment of overpowered item and boon effects every PVP player experiences right now.
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
How do you feel about DCs and Devotion OPs right now? We've seen these specs become too powerful when the healing suppression is smaller. It hasn't been uncommon for players who form their own private matches to ban DCs because of their strength in the past.
Edited for grammar
I was a bit confused at first as to why this question was asked. There are a number of things that have been going on for a while which makes the question seem a little bit antiquated, i.e.:
When you allow players to queue with IL of 3k with HP of 40k against players who are endgame (who routinely take on Castle Ravenloft for example), then healing is irrelevant.
When you allow artifacts like Tymora's Spinning Coin to hit for 240k HP (plus knockback and prone) to everyone around them after mitigation (480k+ pre mitigation), then healing is irrelevant.
When you continue to allow, and indeed continue to create, items like Mane of the Manticore to hit for half of people's HP (some OPs have 300k+ HP), healing becomes irrelevant.
When you have encounters that can one-shot or one-rotate (e.g. Bull Charges hit for 240k HP, followed by 100k+ Anvil and Flourish; best DPS is the Tank, go figure) then healing is irrelevant.
And yet you ask how the DC and Devotion OPs healing is currently?
As someone pointed out above, it was not only healing suppression which was increased which made them less powerful. The OPs (and to an extent the GWFs, and DCs with Divine Armor) lost a significant chunk of their temp HP gained, and the DCs lost pretty much all functionality with Astral Shield.
To be fair, Devo OPs and Faithful DCs are in an ok spot right now. Fix the other things about PvP, and you might have something resembling a bit more balance.
the questions you should of asked is what items we feel as the community are over powered and break pvp and vote/ compile a list ..and as a show of good faith act on one or 2 of them in the next patch ..I mean how hard could it be to go to the items excel table and turn on or off the pvp flag// or the power interaction linked to an item /or further reduce a duration of something ..
is there any hope of compiling a list of broken items that we the community feel should be flagged as not usable in pvp ...do "get it " ?
1 Random burst items doing insane damage
2 Random Stun items durations overlapping each other worn by multiple team member against you ( the devs introduce a Cc resist system cause too many players were getting stun locked..a common pvp compliant ..then they go ahead and let development make pve items that completely ignore thier system and have Cc piercing on them..and most of them are completely useless in pve anyways (lets develop predictably broken items / interactions and not fixed them.. and not flag them as unusable in pvp (very poor design mentality )
3 OutRight Broken items/ powers /artifacts/ boons and interactions reported since forever and not even fixed during the dev buggfix month
4. no usefull or even semi usefull pvp rewards to get with glory /no incentives /punishing players that want to participate in endgame stronghold pvp event by taking away their/ our rewards ..which you gave them in the first place to give incentives to participate /
5. no new maps cause of the excuse/ reason we(the devs) want to do class balance first and then you guys turn around .and instead of doing small class changes that you wanted to at first that were blocking introducing maps according you you guys do big class changes and still there are no maps (cause class balance is not done .TM ) )
6 no matchaking/ balance's so you make broken items so low item level players have a chance to take out someone fully geared and feel good about themselves is that the design philosophy
7 mimicking your lead developer said Pvp could use some love in live stream and in the forums ... When is this exactly happening ?
4. no usefull or even semi usefull pvp rewards to get with glory /no incentives /punishing players that want to participate in endgame stronghold pvp event by taking away their/ our rewards ..which you gave them in the first place to give incentives to participate /
While I agree with the points made in the rest of your post, I would like to mention that disabling the storming the castle quest in the private que actually seems to have caused more matches with actual fighting to take place. I have seen several siege matches formed on PC recently and I was in one of them. Interestingly, there were only 2 regular PVPers in the entire match, most of them were PVE mainly but were still willing to fight for this reward + the winner's reward. One person said that you now have to gain 300 points in order for the storming the castle quest to complete, I am not sure if that is true or not but a lot of people are playing as though this is the case. Some people may be fighting simply because both teams are full teams and they might as well try for the winner's reward as well, I'm not sure what everyone's motive is.
The participation quest being in the private que only ever seemed to result in no-fight farming matches where there was only 1 player on the enemy team, while I had no problem with people farming it, this quest failed at its intended purpose before. The quest only being completable via public que has been beneficial for PVP so far.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
I would also like to bring up the potent sleeping phial. These are currently usable in PVP, initially I thought they would be too difficult for people to wield effectively in PVP, this turned out not to be the case. I have been hit several times recently by sleeping potions in PVP and some of my friends have also complained about them ingame. They aren't as easy to see coming as I was expecting either. They disable you for a very long time, hard to tell if its the full 27 seconds or not since I took damage before that 27 seconds was up, I was disabled for a very long time though.
Please disable this potion in PVP, its overpowered and adding an extremely long complete disable to PVP when the PVP community is already fed up with the smaller CC proccing items is adding insult to injury.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
1
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
The devs made the broken custom stronghold Queuing rules that allowed one person doing nothing afk one side not me *shrugs* the rewards are still paltry for winning tho in any scenario it hardly gives any guild vouchers too
and I was talking about pvp rewards in general too tho I just lumped it in one point : d
Yup +1 too mentioning that dam sleeping vial again .. Which was also mentioned in a few thread by a few player s and should be flagged as not usable in pvp
1
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited December 2018
AAAAnd we just lost another dev !!!!!!!!!!!!! scarabman is gone : ( no pvp changes for
modifying @s in post to included any dev that is left and has not jumped ship*they are reading the writing on the wall perhaps folks its time we do too
looking like every devs has his cv circulating waiting to jump ship
modifying @s in post to included any dev that is left and has not jumped ship*they are reading the writing on the wall perhaps folks its time we do too
looking like every devs has his cv circulating waiting to jump ship
This makes sense. It was about 2-3x more damage for them according to my ACT logs comparing the previous to this module, with nothing documented in patch notes to explain why it was so.
[Re: SWW] First hit without any stacks deals 2782.38. Cast Terrifying Impact for wraps, then shield 6x hits of Wraps to make sure I'm fully buffed up. Then I attack again, damage is 6121.23.
6121.23/2782.38= 2.199999...
We suspect this is due to a rounding error of trying to fix the previously bugged 40% SWW down to its "intended" 20% max stacks.
I've already been making it a point not to try to hit them with minor attacks when their shield is up to avoid proccing Shield Warrior's Wrath, even prior to this piece of knowledge. However for classes like SWs and HRs, one DoT power will probably bring this up to maximum anyway. Good luck fighting against a 2.2x damage increase across the board.
But it looks like it is a little late, what with the uncertainty of who will be looking into this now with @scarabman gone. Here's to hoping someone will pick up the reins to this ...
I know it was probably in error, but it's like looking at the GF damage and saying, hey, let's buff it up so they do DOUBLE damage this mod instead! lol
Comments
furthermore I already said that in this thread ... thanks for seconding the motion
"time to increase the tenacity values in pvp now across the board "
Ya people were tankier in mod 10 and not dying but that was cause crit was bugged in pvp back then
The odd massive hits I do get are when the enemy is proned, running away at max range, or has had their DR shredded.
This just means GF 2 shot combos must be doing absolutely insane base damage. Kinda jealous tbh. I thought my base damage was damn good, but meh, apparantly not.
Edited for grammar
But some builds feel a bit wrong, like infinite stamina.
Leliana C.W. - Opressor CW
Lelian O.P. - Bulwark Paladin
again to repeat myself.. the dc and pally were too powerful/ immortal because crit was not working in pvp(bugged formulae it was doing less damage then non crits ) so there was not enough burst to take people down .also i dont know where these stats come from that they were shunned in private matches where is this data coming from .also some healing boons had no cooldown (cold shoulder) negating any attack less then 10,00 hitpoints also making everyone tankier
also your broken invisible rings(at the time ) /shadowclad armor enchant making people intargetable and immortal too
..also dont forget pally when first introduced had an insane broken amount of temp hit points cause armor pen on bosses was bugged( and they needed to soak massive amounts of damage for thier team )and then the devs fixed that bug but never fixed/ adjusted the temp hitpoints
also how about adjusting healing depression differently on those classs then if you feel they will be immortal
also dont forget about the boon that lowers healing in pvp as well making it 100% healing depression when its active
also how about fixing the lack of healing depression on the lion temp hitpoints then that make classes even tankier if that is what you are worried about.. you also removed most prones from pvp yet again allow the lion to prone.. maybe the lion should a effect only the player in pvp and not grant his whole team temp hitpoints not very balanced if you ask me
why should it be 1 mount to rule them all in pvp its not lord of the rings here ( the lion and no variety) same like weapon enchant and arm in prior mods
or the lothmount set .. the devs wanted players to have a choice/ variety not one go to default must have that seperate people the haves from the have nots more to come as i think of it
and after all this discussion the one question to ask of the comunity is How do you feel about DCs and Devotion OPs right now
Really ..Really ?
how about address your broken CC pvp imunity system as a question or other juicer topics like fixing broken pvp stuff
or why you removed the one measly blood ruby reward that was encouraging people to pvp in strongholds
OPs and DCs are both mortal right now but are still difficult to kill if they are built well (which is good). Their damage output is weirdly dangerous this mod as I mentioned earlier but its still significantly less damage than GFs, SWs, TRs, Archer HRs, and CWs get.
DCs seem to be in a decent spot right now in PVP, they are still strong but not unreasonably strong.
OPs were concerned about a month ago that they would be too weak this module in PVP because of that gloaming cut TR scare thread. So far, they don't appear to be as weak as they thought they were going to be but they do seem weaker than in module 14. Healing OPs are still difficult to take down unless you gank or one shot them. The way OPs work still feels cheesy and simple when I fight them but they aren't too strong.
Matches where teams have 2 OPs or 2 DCs per team are still dull but I haven't encountered any immortal teams lately.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Few Other Observations:
As a result of damage spiking higher and higher over the last few modules, large amounts of defensive stats like lifesteal, deflect, defense, HP, no longer seem to be as problematic as they were. There is still a noticeable difference between a player that is built really tanky and one that isn't but I have yet to encounter a single immortal player this module, which is good.
For the swift golden lion mount, it used to cause way more issues in PVP than it has within the last few modules. Damage has gone up enough that the temp HP I get from my lion is consumed within only a couple hits and I can do the same to other players. The temp HP does aid survival but its not something that reliably saves my butt, I started to notice this around mod 13/14 and it still seems to be the case in module 15.
The lion does still unbalance matches if one team has a lot of players with them and the other team does not. It also adds to the bombardment of overpowered item and boon effects every PVP player experiences right now.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
@wintersmoke - they are ☺.
I was a bit confused at first as to why this question was asked. There are a number of things that have been going on for a while which makes the question seem a little bit antiquated, i.e.:
And yet you ask how the DC and Devotion OPs healing is currently?
As someone pointed out above, it was not only healing suppression which was increased which made them less powerful. The OPs (and to an extent the GWFs, and DCs with Divine Armor) lost a significant chunk of their temp HP gained, and the DCs lost pretty much all functionality with Astral Shield.
To be fair, Devo OPs and Faithful DCs are in an ok spot right now. Fix the other things about PvP, and you might have something resembling a bit more balance.
the questions you should of asked is what items we feel as the community are over powered and break pvp
and vote/ compile a list ..and as a show of good faith act on one or 2 of them in the next patch ..I mean how hard could it be to go to the items excel table and turn on or off the pvp flag// or the power interaction linked to an item /or further reduce a duration of something ..
is there any hope of compiling a list of broken items that we the community feel should be flagged as not usable in pvp ...do "get it " ?
1 Random burst items doing insane damage
2 Random Stun items durations overlapping each other worn by multiple team member against you ( the devs introduce a Cc resist system cause too many players were getting stun locked..a common pvp compliant ..then they go ahead and let development make pve items that completely ignore thier system and have Cc piercing on them..and most of them are completely useless in pve anyways (lets develop predictably broken items / interactions and not fixed them.. and not flag them as unusable in pvp (very poor design mentality )
3 OutRight Broken items/ powers /artifacts/ boons and interactions reported since forever and not even fixed during the dev buggfix month
4. no usefull or even semi usefull pvp rewards to get with glory /no incentives /punishing players that want to participate in endgame stronghold pvp event by taking away their/ our rewards ..which you gave them in the first place to give incentives to participate /
5. no new maps cause of the excuse/ reason we(the devs) want to do class balance first and then you guys turn around .and instead of doing small class changes that you wanted to at first that were blocking introducing maps according you you guys do big class changes and still there are no maps (cause class balance is not done .TM )
)
6 no matchaking/ balance's so you make broken items so low item level players have a chance to take out someone fully geared and feel good about themselves is that the design philosophy
7 mimicking your lead developer said Pvp could use some love in live stream and in the forums ... When is this exactly happening ?
The participation quest being in the private que only ever seemed to result in no-fight farming matches where there was only 1 player on the enemy team, while I had no problem with people farming it, this quest failed at its intended purpose before. The quest only being completable via public que has been beneficial for PVP so far.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
I would also like to bring up the potent sleeping phial. These are currently usable in PVP, initially I thought they would be too difficult for people to wield effectively in PVP, this turned out not to be the case. I have been hit several times recently by sleeping potions in PVP and some of my friends have also complained about them ingame. They aren't as easy to see coming as I was expecting either. They disable you for a very long time, hard to tell if its the full 27 seconds or not since I took damage before that 27 seconds was up, I was disabled for a very long time though.
Please disable this potion in PVP, its overpowered and adding an extremely long complete disable to PVP when the PVP community is already fed up with the smaller CC proccing items is adding insult to injury.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1244646/shields-warrior-wrath-120-buff-instead-20
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
The devs made the broken custom stronghold Queuing rules that allowed one person doing nothing afk one side not me *shrugs* the rewards are still paltry for winning tho in any scenario it hardly gives any guild vouchers too
and I was talking about pvp rewards in general too tho I just lumped it in one point : d
Yup +1 too mentioning that dam sleeping vial again .. Which was also mentioned in a few thread by a few player s
and should be flagged as not usable in pvp
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1244699/the-end-is-the-beginning-is-the-end
modifying @s in post to included any dev that is left and has not jumped ship*they are reading the writing on the wall perhaps folks its time we do too
looking like every devs has his cv circulating waiting to jump ship
But it looks like it is a little late, what with the uncertainty of who will be looking into this now with @scarabman gone. Here's to hoping someone will pick up the reins to this ...
Bugged AF.