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Who Else Hates the New Approach to Crafting?

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  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    jandemann said:

    Biggest issue that I have, is the new Purp artisans, I haven't found one that isn't a diva and desires 200% commission and they take their time with speed bonus as well :persevere: however, I did find a blue jewelcrafter that would really like to shine...-75% commission and a good speed bonus (can't remember what it was, but better than zero :D )

    THIS. All of my "Legacy" purples are a HAMSTER joke. They're not even worth using. Triple my cost and double the crafting time? Oh, but thanks for the 20% chance to not lose my materials on a failure - wait, they're all level 70, so they don't fail.
  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited November 2018

    kreatyve said:

    You really should test stuff out more before you make your judgements. You can have more than 4 workers once you level up your workshop. At level 2, I have 14 workers.

    Actually people had lots of time to test new stuff on preview and can voice their opinion and make judgments being pretty sure on how they feel like.
    Wizardlvl80,

    PREACH!

    It's a HAMSTER system. I tested it, just to see how awful it was going to be and it's amazing to see that they didn't even pick up on the complaints that came from preview.


    Also, does anyone know if you actually LOSE the "Legacy" Artisans, if you dismiss them, 'cos they're HAMSTER? I would think that you should get some sort of reroll. I don't want to risk it, 'cos I've gotten HAMSTER on each toon I've used one on.

  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User


    Also, does anyone know if you actually LOSE the "Legacy" Artisans, if you dismiss them, 'cos they're HAMSTER? I would think that you should get some sort of reroll. I don't want to risk it, 'cos I've gotten HAMSTER on each toon I've used one on.

    If you fire them, they are gone. I've done it. Some of them are pretty terrible. I don't feel bad about firing them. On my wife's account, she got a couple of good ones. I haven't fired any of hers yet, but the day is coming. Mainly, I'm just letting our bad artisans hang around in our workshops and feel important because they're adjacent to artisans actually doing good work at a decent price.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    ilithyn said:


    While this may be true for you, me and anyone who had already leveled in the old system, this is a bleeding headache for new, low level players. Because with the low level artisans, low level equipment and no actual level in any profession, the chance to gather or make a +1 item is low.
    I know because I tried on my alt account where my level 32 CW had never touched the profession system.
    Result? A 15-20% chance to get a +1 item, any of them. Depending on how much the RNG hated me on that day it could take a long time to get that +1 item and be able to progress.
    So let me put it this way. If I was a new player in this game, this alone would keep me far, far away from the profession system. And on its own make me reconsider my involvement with the game. When something is this badly implemented in a game this old, it rarely heralds good things.

    I understand that it's tough if someone hasn't leveled professions before. That's the part where asking for help is important. I've been cranking out Linseed Oil +1 and Aquamarine Rings +1 since Tuesday night. All my and my wife's characters have what they need to progress to workshop level 3 when I have time to deal with it. The rest of the stuff I'm crafting is strictly for giving away to people who are asking for help, with priority being given to guildies and alliance members. I helped one of the people from the forums who sent me an in-game mail asking for help. If I recall correctly, I sent him 18 Linseed Oil +1, which is enough for 6 characters to get a level 2 workshop. (I didn't have any spare aquamarines for rings at the time.) The rings for the "A Box for Knox" quest are taking longer because I have to actually make the aquamarines. That said, if someone sends me an aquamarine and asks for a ring, I've got the mithral ingot and will just mail them a ring - and that jewelcrafter has a high commission modifier and I don't even care.
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,651 Arc User

    adinosii said:

    The tools you can get from the exchange are worthless, they don't even give you a 100% success chance when making max level recipes.

    You didn't have 100% success chance in the past either...even with a mythic forgehammer and a set of legendary tools you were limited to a 95% chance, and most people only had a 75% chance for the masterwork recipes.

    You can get a similar success rate toay - thing is, the new crafting system has a lot of issues - it is cumbersome and most of the things you can make are pretty much pointless, but the success rate issue is not one of the main problems.

    I'm not talking about masterwork, I'm talking about normal level 70 recipes. And I'm not talking about the chance to get +1 result, I mean the base chance to not fail. An adamantine tool you get from the exchange gives 360 proficiency, so you need 440 on a craftsman without high quality materials. I don't have a single one that would even have 400.

    Not to mention that you can MAKE all those tools using professions, and make them +1 which is better than what you get from the exchange. This is a slap in the face with a floppy purple HAMSTER.
    adinosii said:

    Well, it's not quite that bad.... you can claim three free purple artisans in any profession you want, so you do get "something" for your previous hard work.

    Yeah, enjoy those -50-75% speed artisans.
    I Won't, but I will enjoy my New, +25% commission. Level 70, Epic, +175% Speed artisan.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,170 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    It's horrible.
    The concept was bad to begin with. Rather than just make the professions interface less tedious, add worthwhile recipes and remove the obnoxious umpteen layers of RNG from mastercrafting - things that would have made professions rewarding and worthwhile, we get an RNG-infested minigame that's full of bugs and has no real reward in sight.

    Things that should be done to improve it:
    1) Remove the RNG from commissions. There's a market for whatever shirt/pants/hairpin etc. There just is. The real market wouldn't change day by day and neither should this one.
    2) Sort materials and assets available for sale with points from old, exchanged materials into their respective professions and types. The sort-through-this-endless-and-random-list interface is one of the laziest and most headache-inducing things I've ever seen programmed into a game.
    3) Sort commissions the same way. Same godawful interface, same problem.
    4) FIX THE UNOPENABLE DELIVERY BOX BUG.
    5) Remove the negative traits from epic artisans.
    6) Give us remote access to the workshop so we don't have to waste so much time traveling to it and waiting for the instance to load.
    7) Make the materials and commission lists searchable.

    That's for a start.
    Post edited by feanor70118 on
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User


    5) Remove the negative traits from epic artisans.

    Could you clarify "negative traits"? I mean, some of the "negative traits" actually work in our favor, depending on how you look at it.

    6) Give us remote access to the workshop so we don't have to waste so much time traveling to it and waiting for the instance to load.
    Level your workshop to level 3 and you'll have what you're asking for.
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 452 Arc User

    ilithyn said:


    While this may be true for you, me and anyone who had already leveled in the old system, this is a bleeding headache for new, low level players. Because with the low level artisans, low level equipment and no actual level in any profession, the chance to gather or make a +1 item is low.
    I know because I tried on my alt account where my level 32 CW had never touched the profession system.
    Result? A 15-20% chance to get a +1 item, any of them. Depending on how much the RNG hated me on that day it could take a long time to get that +1 item and be able to progress.
    So let me put it this way. If I was a new player in this game, this alone would keep me far, far away from the profession system. And on its own make me reconsider my involvement with the game. When something is this badly implemented in a game this old, it rarely heralds good things.

    I understand that it's tough if someone hasn't leveled professions before. That's the part where asking for help is important. I've been cranking out Linseed Oil +1 and Aquamarine Rings +1 since Tuesday night. All my and my wife's characters have what they need to progress to workshop level 3 when I have time to deal with it. The rest of the stuff I'm crafting is strictly for giving away to people who are asking for help, with priority being given to guildies and alliance members. I helped one of the people from the forums who sent me an in-game mail asking for help. If I recall correctly, I sent him 18 Linseed Oil +1, which is enough for 6 characters to get a level 2 workshop. (I didn't have any spare aquamarines for rings at the time.) The rings for the "A Box for Knox" quest are taking longer because I have to actually make the aquamarines. That said, if someone sends me an aquamarine and asks for a ring, I've got the mithral ingot and will just mail them a ring - and that jewelcrafter has a high commission modifier and I don't even care.
    Except:
    1) Most new players aren't in a guild and many may not have the desire to be. And given how this mod is designed to kill off guilds I can only assume the devs don't want people to be either.
    2) You do know that most people if they are truly new to the game can't say jack HAMSTER in the game until they're well past level 30 right? Makes asking for help, or even to join a guild should they have the desire to do so, just a wee bit challenging.
    3) You should not ever make a system for low levels that depends on help from higher level people in a game to be able to complete. That's asking for new players to HAMSTER right off, immediately. If I can't do the low level stuff on my own a game literally do not have my interest. This system is a good example of something that would have made me consider giving up and going back to playing something more low level friendly.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • jandemannjandemann Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User
    1) purp artisans should give you love and not be divas
    2) after meeting lady Begum, she should be begging you to craft stuff, vs her demanding you to meet her outside of the WS......aka QOL, give her some tea and have her inside the WS plz....can even make it a VIP thing...yep.....many players here have many alts.....throw us a time saver plz :tired_face:
    3) thank you for the signpost to the WS
    4) Think about further discounts being VIP to crafting...IE....better focus...better proficiency @ whatever level you may have vs now
    5) FIX what needs FIXING plz.....not only in crafting, but all over the place.....bugs abound!!! quite the shame that this great game that we've all loved and played forever is well, now, just gross....I mean bed bug gross....and yeah, that's gross o.O
    Angry Inch lvl 70 OP and his NOT SO merry band of other Angry Campfire Hero toons
    Starks Alliance
  • trickster61trickster61 Member Posts: 2 Arc User

    OK, I am starting to understand the new system. I dislike it but I am finally starting to get it. One thing I am still a bit foggy on... how am I suppose to generate the gold this new system is sinking? Am I suppose to sell my wares to the diva at the trading company? It looked like all I get is vouchers or something for that.

    How do I generate gold?

    You can make gold bars from 4 lots of gold sand which you can send adventurers to collect. Making gold bars is in the jewellery crafting menu.
  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited November 2018



    If you fire them, they are gone. I've done it. Some of them are pretty terrible. I don't feel bad about firing them. On my wife's account, she got a couple of good ones. I haven't fired any of hers yet, but the day is coming. Mainly, I'm just letting our bad artisans hang around in our workshops and feel important because they're adjacent to artisans actually doing good work at a decent price.


    I've had no choice. I've had more HAMSTER Artisans than decent ones. Then, the ones I DO keep, I have to level up, 'cos well, it wouldn't be fair to "give" me a decent level 70 Artisan that I allegedly earned through "legacy." No, I have to settle for level 18 Artisans, spend more money to buy some or hope that something decent falls in my lap.


    Take simple Leather. It's worth ONE copper, but you have to spend ELEVEN copper in "commission." What's the point? Even with 200% commission, you wouldn't make any money? Who was the idiot that designed this system?

  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User



    I Won't, but I will enjoy my New, +25% commission. Level 70, Epic, +175% Speed artisan.

    Enjoy it. I got stuck with a Level 70 Epic, with +200% Commission, +175% Speed Armorer and then got a +150% Commission, -150% Speed Armorer, in the hopes of getting SOMETHING decent.



  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Horribly complicated,cumbersome,time consuming and unfun system that wrecks my nerves and patience. Before Mod 15 i was only doing profession tasks to gain new titles because i wasn't all that interested in crafting. It was fast and easy, both functionaly as well as visually.Now i don't even do that and have given up completely on professions. No big loss actually, for me, since i wasn't invested heavily, but if i'm upset i can't begin to imagine how other, more advanced players might feel.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • inugurlinugurl Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    I dont care for it either. I had spread out witch professions each of my characters did. With this new system all I have time for is this crafting nonsense. This is horrible, I want to play the game not run around the enclave for hours.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    ilithyn said:

    new players

    I have yet to play a game that has a crafting system where that system was either friendly to new players or was intended to be used by them. This game is no different. New players have more useful things to spend their gold on than this system. Even the old system wasn't friendly to new players.
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 452 Arc User

    ilithyn said:

    new players

    I have yet to play a game that has a crafting system where that system was either friendly to new players or was intended to be used by them. This game is no different. New players have more useful things to spend their gold on than this system. Even the old system wasn't friendly to new players.
    We must have played very different MMOs then. All I can say is that I thank whatever higher powers that be that I've somehow managed to avoid the ones you've played. Or well, I may have played them but HAMSTER off early due to HAMSTER like this.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    ilithyn said:

    Or well, I may have played them but HAMSTER off early due to HAMSTER like this.

    LOL. Well, that's obviously not true! We're both playing this one! :D
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Member Posts: 537 Arc User

    ilithyn said:

    Or well, I may have played them but HAMSTER off early due to HAMSTER like this.

    LOL. Well, that's obviously not true! We're both playing this one! :D
    Pre-Mod15, the NW crafting system was pretty easy and approachable. Even if you did not do masterwork, all could do Leadership.

    Now? A new player would be baffled by this system. I have been playing NW for years and after 3 days I am still trying to figure it out (and mostly hating it).

  • isaacorion#1994 isaacorion Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    I must be in the silent minority or something, but I actually like the new crafting system. Though currently I'm only using it with 1/8 chars (my former MC cleric).
    I just wish I could que up more than 3 gather tasks and 3 craft tasks. Make the deliver box bigger and let me make more of my artisans work for their pay.
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  • raiderone000raiderone000 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    This new crafting system is worse than DDO. At least provide reverse break down of Items.

    They have killed Guild Crafting. The Gold Crate is worthless. Might as well just donate the Gold directly.

    They had an easier way to produce the Commission and blind nerf'd it the next day. Goodbye Beeswax it was nice knowing you!
    Removed all Guild sources of producing gold from Temp Market. Guild Marks are now a waste along with any Gear.

    Workshop is not even defined so that you Know what are the advantages of WS 1-4. And should be Account Based not ALT Based. Anther ALT slight... And Yes, I had many Epic Professions and Epic Tools. Now lucky if I have three per...
    26 Toons for crafting.... A HALF BAKED SYSTEM..............

    Black Friday will be RED FRIDAY.... NOT GETTING ANY MONEY FROM ME..........
  • flambridgeflambridge Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 191 Arc User

    ilithyn said:

    Or well, I may have played them but HAMSTER off early due to HAMSTER like this.

    LOL. Well, that's obviously not true! We're both playing this one! :D
    Pre-Mod15, the NW crafting system was pretty easy and approachable. Even if you did not do masterwork, all could do Leadership.

    Now? A new player would be baffled by this system. I have been playing NW for years and after 3 days I am still trying to figure it out (and mostly hating it).

    Not only new players, Im full confused in this new system.
    For Oghma, where Vellum????????????
  • jandemannjandemann Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User

    ilithyn said:

    new players

    I have yet to play a game that has a crafting system where that system was either friendly to new players or was intended to be used by them. This game is no different. New players have more useful things to spend their gold on than this system. Even the old system wasn't friendly to new players.
    The last good crafting system that I saw was way back in the day of NWN (neverwinter nights) we could craft our own great bags to carry all the HAMSTER that we carry now...just had to hit the crafting nodes and not worry about gathering all day long....without paying AD, head to the crafting station...bam...done....so sweet....just a few fails here and there get you there ;)….sadly....those days are done :/
    Angry Inch lvl 70 OP and his NOT SO merry band of other Angry Campfire Hero toons
    Starks Alliance
  • jandemannjandemann Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User

    T
    Black Friday will be RED FRIDAY.... NOT GETTING ANY MONEY FROM ME..........


    yep.....and VIP will not be on top of the list either....RIP VIP ;)

    Angry Inch lvl 70 OP and his NOT SO merry band of other Angry Campfire Hero toons
    Starks Alliance
  • blanndeblannde Member Posts: 76 Arc User

    The tools you can get from the exchange are worthless, they don't even give you a 100% success chance when making max level recipes.
    Cryptic just wanted to wipe millions of AD worth of assets from players (all of which were from lockboxes and/or the zen store) and now wants you to buy them again.

    I agree, all the AD and time on my 26 characters just gone poof..... especially the AD.... yes the AD I used real money to buy as I don't have unlimited time to chase AD... crafting was time consuming as it was, now this and setting you back to zero........ add to all the other things with this mod... and its a shame they were doing really well.... No more zen for me and once this run of VIP runs out unless they dramatically do something to put this game back to where it was TR nerfing included, think this will be it for me and probably a lot of players who weathered the Mod 6 fiasco a few years back..

  • raiderone000raiderone000 Member Posts: 87 Arc User



    I Won't, but I will enjoy my New, +25% commission. Level 70, Epic, +175% Speed artisan.

    Enjoy it. I got stuck with a Level 70 Epic, with +200% Commission, +175% Speed Armorer and then got a +150% Commission, -150% Speed Armorer, in the hopes of getting SOMETHING decent.



    I know the feeling. You think okay at least I have three Epic Lvl 70's. But wait 200% Commission!!!!
    I don't even use them now on Gatherers. We went from basically free system to a system with EPIC rejects
    that charge 200% Commission!!! Thanks ALOT.

    EPIC should be better not worse than Normal. Sorry BUT I DIDnt TAKE advantage of the QUICKSILVER and have MILLIONS
    of GOLD!!!

    So the IDEA is to screw everybody. Yah my Fault I should have sold all my GUILD MArks for Quicksilver.
    They introduce bad logic with past mistakes and continue to make bad mistakes in the reverse.

    They should have removed or altered Quicksilver a long time ago. Instead of redoing Professions to up the GOLD COST...

    Let alone the AD costs. And thanks for removing easier cheaper Commissions to Lady Begum! It's a bunch of BEESWAX........
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,467 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Some suggestions:

    1. The stores for buying materials -- both at the materials trader and where you buy materials with trade-in credits -- should be sorted alphabetically. Finding a material in that huge list is tedious.

    2. If a required material is itself a crafted item, I should be able to double-click on it to zap to the recipe to make it.

    3. For any crafted item, I should be able to click a button on its recipe to see a list of what recipes require it. I should then be able to double-click on any item in the list to zap to its recipe.

    4. For gathering tasks that are repeating either indefinitely or for a set number of times, I should be able to click a checkbox that says, "stop after the one in progress is finished".
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  • intothegrooveintothegroove Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    dont really know where to start, so i wont because i cant be bothered. just like craptic and the rest of the people involved in the game. I am quite literally shocked that they could be so destructive and create so much HAMSTER. they have destroyed my main toon, destroyed years of work mastering all the professions and then have the gall to try and pass of aquisitions inc as new content.
    I played along until i was sent to collect the second egg from the deep crow. what imagination! what story telling! i am now waiting for the moment i am tasked with retrieving the 3rd. ... nahh not really, i think my head would explode.
  • blanndeblannde Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Not impressed that all the purple resources for leadership I purchased with real money yes zen is real money ( for 20 plus toons) and now they are almost worthless.. the trade exchange compared to the price of new items is pathetic you know that feeling you have when you realize you've been short changed at the shop....
  • auron#6793 auron Member Posts: 396 Arc User
    With the old system at least i could go around and do stuff without having to sit around in one location to avoid the laggy swamp that is protecters enclave can't empty the deliver bin outside. now my character is just a glorified office clerk.(no offense to anyone who actually is an office clerk)
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    There is supposed to be an image here, but the hamsters took it.
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  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,141 Arc User
    My observations:

    Cancelling tasks is unintuitive. Also you get your mats back but don't get your gold back (which is necessary to prevent exploits, but the window should tell you this). There is no option to "complete this one but stop at the end of it" which would be great when you set a chain going and you want to set a bigger number because the first 3 miracle workered and insta completed.

    Mastercrafting is now more expensive. You get nothing back from a fail now, there is a gold cost and I'm needing a proficiency supplement just to get to 75% with a mythic forgehammer.

    There seems to be no bonus on a craft that uses +1 ingredients, I don't know why, I feel there should be, it makes focus irrelevant on high level gathers.

    Show stopping bugs reported on preview weeks ago were not fixed before release, this causes less people to want to go on preview, as there seems no point, and means you get even less good feedback.

    Making people pay a large number of ADs (500K per alt for T3) to get back to where they started is not cool. Non mastercrafter alts are never going to be very good at crafting without a forgehammer. Previously they could gain gold and RP at the same rate as your main mastercrafter, now they can't even accomplish the highest level non MC crafts at 100% with the top level white tools.



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