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Question About New Workshop
viperwitch23
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
Greetings.
I have 2 questions regarding some tasks in the new workshop. Due to some reasons I cannot go preview so may be someone here have the answer.
Question #1: how much in gold would cost a single task of this?
https://i.imgur.com/Q7yZhjc.jpg
Question #2: Are here going to be ANY tasks to to make Armour Re enforcement Kits at all?
https://i.imgur.com/ezbrnbo.jpg
I asked many times, but most people are only interested in masterwork and other things is of no concern to them.
I heard from 1 source that some SH tasks cost up-to 500 gold EACH. What task is that? Is it the crates.
Thank you in advance
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I can't offer any specific numbers as I am not even in the game right now, let alone on test, but every craftsman has five different stats/abilities.
1) Proficiency - This affects the chance to complete the task.
2) Focus - This affects the chance of producing a high-quality item.
3) Commission - This affects how much more or less you will pay from the base cost of the project.
4) Time - This increases or decreases the base time of completing the project.
5) Special - A percent chance of activating whatever special ability that particular craftsman has. There are a number of these.
So while the base cost of a project can be found, the actual cost can vary.
As far as armor reinforcement kits, it is my understanding that those will be there. Not sure if they are in right now.
I may try to look at test tomorrow so see some of the updates that they have made since I was last there, and if I remember I can look for more specifics here.
As to the Jewels and Reinforcement Kits - they will all be available.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
They have added crates of astral diamonds to the Gathering tasks list. It has a base cost of about 75 silver for 2 crates (not three!). The maximum it can cost is 2 gold 25 silver, and that's if you opt for an adventurer with a 200% commission modifier. The least it can cost is 18 silver 75 copper, and that's if you opt for an adventurer with a -75% commission modifier.
They have also added crates of transmuted gold to the Alchemy tasks list. It requires 3 raw gold ingot and 1 Aureus Index. It requires many parts and requires you to use Gathering, Alchemy, Jewelcrafting, and Artificing professions to make them. The gold ingots have to be made in JC from 4 gold sand per 1 ingot. Gathering gold sand gives you 12 gold sand per successful task completion. Making the Aureus Index requires 1 gold sand, which means you'll have to gather 24 gold sand to make three crates of transmuted gold (you always get three crates now). I have taken the time to price all of this accurately. Here's what I found:
1. The base price before commission modifiers to make crates of transmuted gold is between 7 gold and 8 gold. (It's more than 7 and less than 8.) If I recall correctly, it's about 7 gold 33 silver to make them.
2. Maximum commission cost will be around 22 gold, assuming you use artisans that all have a 200% commission modifier.
3. Minimum commission cost will be around 1 gold 83 silver, assuming you use artisans that all have a -75% commission modifier.
4. There will be 15 to 20 steps required to make crates of transmuted gold.
I complained about this in the preview thread and Asterdahl said they are considering increasing the coffer value of the crates of transmuted gold. I replied to him/her (and have not yet received a response) that they will have to at least triple the coffer value to make doing this task even remotely worthwhile. Personally, I'm likely to switch to bringing the Assayer to my guild and just planning my resource usage more carefully than I already do.
There are currently no recipes for guild donation items up on preview other than these two. I have also complained about this in the preview thread and have yet to receive a response.
Just to point out something about the commission modifier for those not sure what that means. So, some workers (like the purple ones for example) will have higher focus stats, so they can make better quality items, but generally also have higher commission modifiers - that means while they do good work, you have to pay them accordingly. On the other hand, the white-quality workers won't be as likely to craft high quality items, but they also aren't paid as much. You'll need to pay close attention to the stats of each worker when setting up tasks, and you'll want a variety of workers - it's not like now where you just go right for the highest quality worker whenever you can. In fact, if you're just mass-producing basic materials, using white-quality workers may very well be desireable over the purple-quality ones.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Buddy tells me it be only some kind of workshop lock box that randomly drops scroll of upgrading for workers.
That I can only get for currency that I need to make some materials for to sell inside workshop.
This new workshop stinks
I am very very sorry to say that to those who love new systems.
Right now, donation crates is all that I make with professions.
Here is simply nothing else for me to make.
Masterwork I don't do. I make creates, mostly jewel ones to donate to my guild and then use marks to buy more materials for more crates.
As you know - current professions also make Surplus Equipment crates.
Are you saying they have WIPED most of those tasks from new workshops?
Just wiped and that is all to it?
New workshop they say would be a brilliant improvement - how is iot such a briliant improvement if a lot of tasks that guilds use is gone? HOW?
I remember what we did before those projects came - we had to run ETOS/ECC like here is no tomorrow to get epic drops and then make a choice - salvage for yourself or donate to help your guild.
In those distant days also botters were rampaging unchecked and gem index could of been filled with stacks of rank 5 Enchantments bought for as little as 5k AD especially after x2 enchantments and runestones when the botters cleared out all skill nodes everywhere.
Then skill nodes were nerfed and this killed off stream of cheap stacks of gems.
But then we could refine 36000 ad per char so buying thousands of stacks was no problem.
I did too - I was buying them and putting into coffers.
So, what do we have now?
New ''brilliant'' upgrade had been taken from nice and simple and completed 10 times over
Added more RNG in several ways
Wiped most of the tasks to make donatable materials
That crates of gold if it takes 15-20 jobs to make final one who would do it?
I wouldn't
If here is no good gear in workshops - hasn't been a long long time. Except masterwork
Then soon no donation crates - what is here be left to make in it?
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If you don't mind answer question on how write workers can be upgraded to epic.
Or is it now ZEN only affair?
With 31mill back log?
If they say donate the gems then why not mthen make tasks to make some armour or some Tungsten Plates or what ever to donate for surplus.
Or this be new calling for the killed off hunts now? hunt gear to donate at rate of 810 points x1 item let's find from some where like 300+ epic high cards to get 240k surplus for just 1 build.
Or spent hundreds of gold
God knows how many materials
To make x100 Aquamarines for 2k or 3k gems
I still got huge back log of gem crates I cannot currently donate - I hope those don't become worthless when mod 15 comes I spent month and month on making them.
1. Over-complicated the process adding host of new things that at the same time reduced chances for good outcomes
2. Severally nerfed amount of items that can be produced in ordinary workshop ( not masterworks )
3. Added a lot of RNG including some random scroll for currency or something.
This is all just to make gold viable currency or make it more costly then AD?
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P.S. I was told that workshop tiers can be upgraded 2 ways.
1. Pay millions of AD
2. Manufacture some items for credits.
If I understand this - the amount of items to manufacture could cost in gold more then in AD as people would need some how to convert AD to gold. Since can't do it directly - then buying something to sell for gold.
First, the story/background is good - I think if it had been like this from the very beginning, crafters might have loved it, but now people are basically looking at the differences between this and the existing system, and focusing on the ... well, issues.
There are some points to consider.
I'm like you in that I only use professions for guild donations and RP. I don't know whether I care about the loss of RP from Leadership, yet. They're making it a bit easier to get RP from other places, like chests. As for donations, it looks like they are wiping out crates of surplus equipment, crates of gems, and crates of labor. For labor, you can simply run Gathering tasks and donate the results; essentially, you can donate any of the new crafting ingredients/resources and the guild coffer label for Labor has been changed to Professions Resources. When it comes to donating gems, they're now expecting people to donate actual gems, either by looting them or by crafting them (gather raw black opal, then use jewelcrafting to make it into a polished stone).
As for the existing crates, I have to find out whether they'll still be able to be donated to the coffer or not. I won't have time until the weekend to find this out. I have posed the question in the feedback thread and I am hoping someone else will be able to provide the answer. If they will still have value after the update comes out, then my guild will be in a great situation for quite a while to come, since I've crafted crates worth hundreds of thousands of surplus equipment and gems, each. (Not to mention that our coffer is very nearly full.) If they will not have value after the update launches, then I guess my alliance is going to reap an unexpected windfall. LOL
I hope you get the answer if they are still be able to be donatable.
I have a lot of Gem boxes I don't want to be wasted.
Black opal polishing I expect would cost a lot of gold to gather or polish or all together.
How can this be an upgrade to current system?
Randomly - VERY randomly - get application from a better worker.
So, upgrade scroll was a mistake.
Tools the same?
Tools can't upgrade?
Artisans cannot be leveled to get better results?
WHAT IS A REASON to ruin the system?
I am sorry I know you said that story line is good, but good story doesn't make up for the ruinous changes
If you say it does ... well your opinion you are entitled too
So here be nothing for me to do in the workshop.....
1 other thingy - Is it true that workshop can be upgraded without AD?
Just by doing tasks for some credit or tens of millions of AD are only way
You better have a nice stockpile of gold if you are going to get serious about crafting.....someone estimated the Gold cost and it was, well, significant.
Probably not enought
But here should be sources of Gold some where.
And 7-day shops that you can get at SH - are they gonna sell new materials ready made like they are now selling old ones?
@micky1p00 got a screenshot for me and the crates we can make currently will still have value for donating to the guild. So that's a good thing. In fact, the value will remain the same, though we're not sure about the guild marks you get - but there's no reason at this point to expect that to have changed (at least as far as I can see). So anything you've crafted already and have sitting in your bank will be worth holding onto until it's needed.
As for what happens when guilds need gems, they're clearly expecting people to either choose to craft them with Jewelcrafting or to rely on the Gemcutter. My plan, for when I run out of banked gems and gold, is going to be to rely on the Gemcutter and the Assayer (temporary SH buildings). I already rely on the Recruiter for much of the influence my guild needs. In the next week or two, I'll put up a post discussing my plans around these buildings and the logistics required to keep all three in your SH on a long-term basis.
As for artisans, from what I can see people like you and I, who just are interested in guild donations, are actually going to be better off with white/common artisans. These artisans tend to have a negative commission multiplier, which means that if a task costs 75 silver normally, then they'll charge less than 75 silver to complete it. The lowest commission multiplier that I have seen is -75%, meaning that any tasks that artisan completes cost 1/4 what they normally would. The highest is 200%, meaning tasks costs three times as much as normal (pushing a 75 silver commission up to 2 gold 25 silver). People who want or need higher quality results (like masterwork crafters) are going to be interested in epic level artisans to reduce their chance for failure and increase their chance for the best possible result as much as possible. Artisans can level and their maximum level is 70. It's just their quality (common/rare/epic) cannot be changed.
Artisans also get a special skill. Some have a chance to negate the commission cost, others have a chance to instantly finish a task. The one I personally like the most for Gathering is called "Dab Hand", which gives the artisan a chance to produce twice the results per task. (As far as I can tell, they charge you only one commission, but I have not verified this 100%, yet.) This ability is useful for other professions, too, but the developers have not clearly explained what is a "finished product" (and therefore cannot be double with "Dab Hand") and what is not (and therefore will be doubled). The only thing I know for sure is that polished gems can be doubled and are not considered a "finished product", even though they're finished from the perspective of turning them into RP or feeding them to your mimic.
My strategy with artisans, since I am not into masterwork crafting, is going to be to get artisans with a negative commission modifier, 20% or 25% chance of "Dab Hand", and high proficiency. I'm planning to ignore their speed and their focus attributes. (Proficiency affects the chances they're able to successfully complete a task. Focus affects their chances to produce a high quality result when a task successfully completes. These are independent calculations within the game. Successful completion is checked first, then it is checked for quality.) I'm ignoring speed because I feel like if I just plan ahead, then their speed won't affect me much. (They can have negative speed modifiers, making tasks take longer to complete than normal.) And I don't know that I'll much need high quality results.
Tools. Existing tools (and the vouchers that existing laborers turns into) can be exchanged with the retainer for new tools or a new artisan. Essentially, you get currency for the existing assets and can use that currency to buy new assets. A new artisan is 200k of this currency, while an existing hero is worth 80k, grandmasters from any profession are worth 20k each, and mithral tools are worth 5k each. The new tools are level-gated. This means that you can only use Adamantine/Oak/Gold/Shimmerweave tools when the corresponding profession is level 70, and you'll have to use lesser tools as you level the profession up. Existing laborers turn into vouchers, and you can turn those vouchers into the guild coffer as Labor/Profession Resources - or you can exchange them with the Retainer (the guy who actually runs your workshop day-to-day).
The workshop can be leveled with astral diamonds. It will take a while. As @adinosii has mentioned, if you do it purely by gathering and crafting everything you need, the gold cost will be quite high. There is a way to mitigate that some, though. So let me explain that and we'll circle back to the workshop.
Existing resources can be exchanged with your workshop's Retainer for a "material exchange currency", which lets you buy most (perhaps all) of the raw materials you can get via Gathering. So you trade in existing materials for new materials, then use those materials to craft things that the stuck-up (but very well-drawn!) elf woman near the auctioneer will buy from you. She's the front-woman for the South Seas Trading Company, which is basically a cartel that pays you in credit that can be used only to upgrade your workshop. It takes 1.5 million of this credit to upgrade from level 2 to level 3, while it takes 5 million of this credit to upgrade from level 3 to level 4. (The AD cost is equivalent: 1.5m AD or 5m AD. Last I checked, anyway.) [We'll come back to upgrading your workshop to level 2 in a bit.]
So my strategy with my characters is to invite the Atelier or some other professions temporary building to the SH, then fill up my characters' crafting inventories will materials that are used in level 20 and higher recipes. For example, Ebony Weapon Hafts. These (and other L20+ resources) trade for 8 "material exchange currency" per weapon haft. This makes a stack of 999 Ebony Weapon Hafts worth 7,992 "material exchange currency". I've tested this strategy on preview already and I can hit high six figures (800k+) "material exchange currency" with very little trouble. The best part is that none of this will go to waste because if you don't need it for crafting things to sell to the
cartelSouth Seas Trading Company, then you can eventually use it to either craft things you actually need or you can use it feed to the mimic for Labor/Profession Resources.Now, back to upgrading the workshop. Getting to level 2 is actually pretty easy. The simplest/fastest thing to craft, in my opinion, is Linseed Oil +1. You have to create some high quality result of something and there is one thing for each profession. The list, when you see it, is actually quite confusing and makes you think you need to craft all of the items on the list. This is not true! Just pick one thing to craft. If you have a character that has leveled Alchemy, Linseed Oil is pretty easy to make because you only have to gather flax, which is fast - assuming you don't just use your "material exchange credit" to get whatever it is you need. Also, the list doesn't tell you which profession makes which item. So you have to use the search function to find it. When you get a high quality result, it's very obvious. As an alternative, you'll probably be able to buy from the AH the item you need in order to upgrade your workshop to level 2. This is because the crafted stuff is not bound to character.
Overall, I think the system will be usable and even acceptable, eventually. I'll be doing some testing this weekend to discover what gathered items are worth the most in terms of Labor/Profession Resources and which ones cost the least. I'll post that information when I get it. At the very least, get your workshop to level 2 because it isn't hard and won't cost much. Then, if you decide to abandon the system, you haven't put much into it, and it puts you in a good position should you decide to return to crafting. (Artisans will slowly apply to work for you over time, too. So you might ignore this for a while and come back to it with a bunch of applicants waiting to work for you. You don't have to buy artisans, fortunately.)
I would rather buy artisans and choose what I want to get
I remembered 1 more thing I forgot to put in here
Right now we can run x9 identical tasks in professions.
Then could I run in Gathering x12 identical tasks?
Or x12 polishing tasks?
Some say it is x3 maximum.
32 artisans maximum yes this I know
Crafted stuff not char bound at last 1 good thing
Mean I could use all of my chars to craft items to sell for credit for 1 of my chars
Then do it for next one and next and next
But if it just random applications could it be for example that I might be waiting for gatherers applications for weeks or may be months?
Like here be guys that will apply from professions I won't use
After that it is random, and yes, you could conceivably be waiting for a little while before the "right" people showed up, but in the meantime nothing would stop you from taking on whoever shows up and increasing, however slightly, the odds that you will see more workers that you want to see the next time**.
In the meantime, maybe you wanted to focus on being a blacksmith, but you can put that leatherworker or jeweler to work on things that you might be able to sell to others, find uses for yourself, or just leave them idle and do nothing.
And, when you need to make space, you just fire whichever worker you no longer want/need, whether they be of some skill that you are not interested in, they are of a quality that you do not want or want more of, or even if they just don't have the numbers/abilities that you want to see.
I am sure that there will be a list of every craftsman and gatherer and their numbers at level 70 somewhere eventually so everyone can see exactly which workers they want on their final team and which ones they want more or less than others so they can hire and fire with confidence.
* There are going to be some extra workers available to characters that have unlocked slots in the current crafting system.
There will also be worker boxes available for purchase. The specific skill of the worker can be selected, so if you want an armorer then you can select armorer and know that the box contains an armorer, but the specific armorer is not guaranteed, and that includes quality.
** Every worker is unique. You can not have more than one of any given worker, and the only ones that are strictly out of play are the ones that are already working for you. So if you want to be a jeweler but a blacksmith, leatherworker, and tailor show up in the application stack, hiring them means that there is one less blacksmith, leatherworker, and tailor that can be pulled from the stack of workers to apply next time.
In turn, this is going to be a plus for those people who have alts that have leveled professions and who have the gold to keep those alts busy. My wife has three characters who have leveled Leadership almost to L21 so far, and no other professions. I'm planning to just have those three characters running Gathering tasks. Though, between her and I, we have 14 other characters with at least one non-Leadership profession to L25, which means there'll be two characters assigned the same profession to start with during the tutorial. After that, all the characters will just have to wait for more artisans to apply because I'm not buying any Artisan Recruitment Orders (or whatever they're called). Hopefully, they'll eventually be a drop from a profession pack from a lockbox or something.
I have a question for @nunya though. I am not sure I see how, if I can currently run 9x simultaneous tasks on all my characters, and the new system limits me to 3 Crafting tasks (presumably) and 3 Gathering tasks... how is this a plus? Less tasks is less tasks, whether it is on a main or an alt.
I was soo hoping it wasn't true
What the hell are they doing?
3 TASKS AT ONCE DOWN FROM 9
What is a point to get work to T4 with 32 slots?
7 professions x3 tasks each = 21 slots and 11 slots will always be empty.
And probably rest of professions I wouldn't even need
Why are they doing it? I can't see the reasoning.
I have 15 chars so meaning only 45 gathering slots total.
Gather some stuff for weeks just to make something for 1 char.
May be could I at last make things to sell for credit with those things being tradable?
I AM SORRY, but I just can't see how this is improvement
Many of my friends who doing masterwork already packing bags
As they see they have to invest millions to get to T4
Then sit and pray to RNG god so the correct worker apply
And that worker to be rare/epic
And for correct profession
So they can start doing Masterwork again
And when this might happen?
It might be this year
Or the next year
And while they are waiting they are loosing resources gold AD
Devs say they wanted things to get cheap - this will sky-rocket prices for everything
MW2 alchemy pots for example.
- Level 1 Workshop: 8 artisans max
- Level 2 Workshop: 14 artisans max
- Level 3 Workshop: 20 artisans max
- Level 4 Workshop: 26 artisans max
The idea being that you could be self-sufficient on each character if you invest the time to gather whatever you need, then craft the crafted/advanced ingredients that you need, then craft whatever it is that uses those crafted/advanced ingredients. "Raw gold ingots" would be an example of this in that it's something you cannot get from a Gathering task, and have to first use Gathering to get gold sand, which is then used to make the raw gold ingot.Apparently, with a maximum of 32 artisans, you could somehow game the artisan application logic. I'm not sure how one would have done that. Exploring that is certainly beyond the level of patience and interest that I have.
I can understand why your MW friends are packing up. MW is going to be considerably more expensive than it is now. The highest success rate achievable is something like 75%. If you don't have an artisan that has a chance to return some ingredients on failure, then ingredients are always consumed. According to my reading and understanding of others' posts on this topic (since I don't myself do MW), it appears that 60% chance of success is going to be the usual. The masterwork crafters who have been engaged in discussion in the feedback thread are expecting the prices for MW items on the AH to at least double, if not triple. They're expecting weapons to be more than 10m AD each on the AH based on success rate and the fact that people are largely only going to want the high quality versions.
Or could I use all of my chars to make rank up items and trade them via account?
Unless those items be char bound
My friend saying it be RNG+RNG+RNG+COSTS+NERVES+GRIND before anything sellable can come out
He is crafting things now - Then he must first to rise work shop to T4. Then wait for epic or at last rare applicant of the correct profession.
Unless ZEN item can guarantee application of correct artisan of correct profession straight away
But this means more money in without anything out.
He said that he had invested may be 20mill into getting MW3
Now new costs and he won't even get to the level he is at now
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Do you know please temporary shops that you can call in SH.
Bloomery
Atelier
Goldsmith
Tannery
Forgot other one
Are they gonna sell old materials that can be swapped for credit or sell new ones ready made?
My Rinn Giroud, your Rinn Giroud, and someone else's Rinn Giroud at the same level will have the same stats, including the same special ability and the same activation chance.
No one should "get lucky" and pull a "better" version of some specific worker.
So while yes, the RNG will determine which worker you get, the stats and special skill on that worker are predetermined.
There certainly shouldn't be "better" workers, though.
The workers at the same quality level are supposed to operate on the same "budget". This was stated by Asterdahl in the preview thread when I raised an issue with a couple of craftsmen that were identical in every way except one had a 5% greater chance of activating their special.
That means that there should be no "better" worker, ever. Different? Sure, and different abilities will have different values, but every level 70 blacksmith of the same quality should be "just as good" as every other level 70 blacksmith of that same quality.
Now, if you think that having a few more points in proficiency and focus is better than an extra 5% chance at the craftsman activating passion project, or that dab hand and passion project are the only special abilities worth having then those are calls for you to make, but in the devs eyes those two workers should be "equal".
It remains to be seen if there are certain workers that seem to be ignored by everyone whether the devs will tweak those workers to add perceived value.
I also need to throw in a question that I assume close to nobody would know. How does the Leprechaun bag of holes power work, how does it stack with the radiant gold gain? Never thought I would be asking that, but if gold is suddenly so important one could possibly see lots of Leprechauns running around for solo quests
I hope that clears up what I was trying to say and ask. I ask because, the last time I played around with hiring a ton of artisans, the artisans' stats all seemed to be RNG'd. Of course, at that time you could still end up with two, three, or more copies of an artisan with the same name, just with different stats.
Does it mean that a task that runs for 1h now will then run 5-6h?
Now with common worker gathering task is 8h each
Then with common worker and -75% speed 1 gathering will be like whole day or longer?
Workers are, to the best of my knowledge, set. They will have the numbers that they have at whatever level they are. They will have whatever special ability they have at whatever percentage of activation.
All Rinn Girouds at the same level should be identical.
Now, though, I am curious... I think I'll copy a character over to test a few times, pick the same skill, and start writing down worker numbers to see if any with the same name come up with different numbers or abilities.
I'll check back in later with my results. I'm not checking your math, but yes, a - % speed value means that tasks complete faster just as a -% commission means that tasks will cost you less.