The new profession system is the highlight of module 15. And you think professions should be limited to one or two characters per account? LoL Why not just ask for Cryptic to completely remove professions?? LoL Or why not just ask Cryptic to limit all accounts to only one or two characters? LOL Not gonna happen.
In regards to the salvage change, do you know that some players actually play their alts? Cryptic is not stopping us from playing (and earning AD) on alternate characters.
Can i swap my Hammer of Gond towards any other char? Honestly, if invoking and leadership with my toons is from no benefit any more, let it be. I hate to do it anyway. No clue where this game is heading for atm, we will see. In case no new content is implemented, this game is done i think, so who cares about invoking and leadership. I got 8 chars, every class, only to have a base to trashtalk in forum about classes.
The new profession system is the highlight of module 15. And you think professions should be limited to one or two characters per account? LoL Why not just ask for Cryptic to completely remove professions?? LoL Or why not just ask Cryptic to limit all accounts to only one or two characters? LOL Not gonna happen.
In regards to the salvage change, do you know that some players actually play their alts? Cryptic is not stopping us from playing (and earning AD) on alternate characters.
They are not stopping you from playing alts, but they are penalizing those who actually try to develop them. The 100k RAD cap means that playing 1 toon or 6 toons, the amount of AD you can refine each day is the same. Difference is, playing and developing 6 toons costs 6 times more. Same with leadership changes. Developing alts, with current system, costs a lot. Now professions will require gold, which is needed to swap enchants and runestones from one toon to the other. More gold sink means less gold to swap enchants and runestones between toons, or the need to farm stuff to sell for gold (time sink). There are no practical incentives to developing alts. Only obstacles. The only positive part, in module 5, will be the chance to play another class. It will just cost players another bunch of milions of AD to develop the alt. Lol.
They are not stopping you from playing alts, but they are penalizing those who actually try to develop them. The 100k RAD cap means that playing 1 toon or 6 toons, the amount of AD you can refine each day is the same. Difference is, playing and developing 6 toons costs 6 times more. Same with leadership changes. Developing alts, with current system, costs a lot. Now professions will require gold, which is needed to swap enchants and runestones from one toon to the other. More gold sink means less gold to swap enchants and runestones between toons, or the need to farm stuff to sell for gold (time sink). There are no practical incentives to developing alts. Only obstacles. The only positive part, in module 5, will be the chance to play another class. It will just cost players another bunch of milions of AD to develop the alt. Lol.
The 100k RAD cap has nothing to do with module 15. This is the preview forum, not the complain about module 14 forum.
There are plenty of incentives to develop alts. It's called "entertainment". If developing alts is not entertaining to you, then stop doing it. Neverwinter is free2play, not free4all. There are plenty of ways to earn AD, which do not require generating massive amounts of new AD. 100k RAD limit has nothing to do with module 15, and you should complain elsewhere about it.
I support the removal of the gold cost for removing runestones/enchantments.
LOL I know how much time it takes to spend to deal with this only on 1 character. You can not do it without special software.
You're wrong. A full roll of all 9 profession slots takes me about 45 seconds on one character. Combine with a prayer and log in/log out times and zone loads, call it one minute. And I'll only have all 9 finished at the same time once a day, if that - most of the time, a pray/prof roll takes 10 seconds per character, 20 seconds on ones that have 3 jobs finished and 30 on ones with 6 jobs finished.
Lets assume you are right. So it's 3-5 min per character (Boring scrolling, task assignment; you have 9 slots, right?). And you have 50-54 characters(MAXED) - it's 200 min of your real life OR gameplay. I'm really curious how you do it MANUALLY. 3.5 hours? REALLY?
50 minutes, once a day, then 10-15 minutes at other times, is eminently doable for many people.
Personally I don't have 50 characters, because that *would* take too long for my taste. My resetting-for-the-day first roll takes me about 30 minutes: a quick pray on every toon to start the 15 minute timer without touching professions, then start rolling professions and then praying as soon as the 15 minute time elapses. At the end of all the professions start the toon list over again to pray on the ones I passed in the list before their first 15 minutes was up.
There are only a few other things in the game that I could spend 30 minutes on an make as much profit, when you count the Leadership boxes, prayer boxes, and XP rewards. Most of those other takes-30-minute profit centers (like, running a Random Advanced) are only profitable once a day, so if I'm going to get 60 minutes to play, it's worth doing those two things. Especially when I can do it while doing something else, like watching TV or reading news posts.
EDIT: You mention later that you prefer to look for undervalued items in the AH and repost them higher. Sure, that's something that could likely beat my 30 minute profit margin, and it's not restricted to once a day. But it feels too much like work to me, so I avoid doing it, and this is good for people like you who *do* like doing it.
I wasn't talking about real money. Talking about in-game currency. Astral Diamonds. Gearing up a toon even if not making it BiS, with 1 mythic artifact and 3 legendary, 1 legendary mount for combat power, 1-2 Legendary companions, with a good active one, and others with decent active bonuses, 16 enchants at, say, rank 13, and 6 more on companion, plus companion gear...to bring a toon at 15k, non-bis, the AD cost and time cost is high. And, right now, with no return of investment. Cryptic says they want to reward those who play the game, and yet, the penalize more and more those who try to play multiple classes and develop multiple toons.
I give you credit for putting this much effort into your alts. I certainly cannot, and I think that is what @theycallmetomu's perspective is, as well. (This is a guess, of course, since I cannot claim to know what they are thinking.) I have three characters that I have seriously invested in: HR, OP, SW. My HR is my oldest character, while my SW is my highest IL, most powerful, and most fun, and my OP is close behind my SW in terms of all those things. My SW is 13.8k, my OP is 13.2k, and my HR is 12.1k, while the rest of my characters are 10k or lower (with most being 8k or low 9k). I don't have the time or the in-game resources necessary to really work on these characters and play them. Mostly, I use them to run whatever weekly AD quests they are capable of (most are only Sharandar and Dread Ring, but a couple can run Biggrin's) and that I have the resources for (Reclaiming the Hoard only gets run on my main three), and for invoking, salvage, and professions.
I agree that putting the kind of effort into your alts should be rewarded. Your ideas for making enchantments claimable from the store or the claims agent or elsewhere are good. It would certainly reduce the grind for improving alts. I like your idea that the number, types, and levels of enchantments claimable by other characters on the account should correspond to the number, types, and levels of enchantments on the main character. The main problem I see with this is how hard it would hit the economy and the market for enchantments, marks of potency, enchanting stones, and refining stones (gems: peridot, diamond, etc). If the developers want people to be able to run alts, they need to start looking at ideas like this and figure out how to reduce the grind a bit.
You're wrong. A full roll of all 9 profession slots takes me about 45 seconds on one character. Combine with a prayer and log in/log out times and zone loads, call it one minute. And I'll only have all 9 finished at the same time once a day, if that - most of the time, a pray/prof roll takes 10 seconds per character, 20 seconds on ones that have 3 jobs finished and 30 on ones with 6 jobs finished.
Wow. I wish I could get mine done that fast. On my and my wife's characters, I'm currently making crates using Jewelcrafting, Leatherworking, Mailsmithing, Platesmithing, and Weaponsmithing. We're making labor and astral diamonds using Leadership. Her characters are then doing 2x Guard Clerics of Ilmater. My characters are making crates of gold and doing 1x Guard Clerics of Ilmater. All those tasks are done in four hours, except labor and AD crates which are done in three hours. To do 17 characters takes me 20 to 25 minutes every four hours. (Resetting labor and AD crates takes considerably less time, of course, but I'm lumping that time in with the time to reset the four hour tasks.) They all have grandmasters and mithral tools where applicable, and heroes for Leadership. I'm very much looking forward to easier management/collection with module 15.
The 100k RAD cap has nothing to do with module 15. This is the preview forum, not the complain about module 14 forum.
There are plenty of incentives to develop alts. It's called "entertainment". If developing alts is not entertaining to you, then stop doing it. Neverwinter is free2play, not free4all. There are plenty of ways to earn AD, which do not require generating massive amounts of new AD. 100k RAD limit has nothing to do with module 15, and you should complain elsewhere about it.
I support the removal of the gold cost for removing runestones/enchantments.
The 100k RAD cap was the first step and now they changed professions. The thread is about alt slots invalidated, so you must keep into account all the changes that lead us to where alts are now.
You say "there are plenty of incentives" to develop alts. Then you talk about "entertainment" only. So 1 incentive. I brought plentiy of "disincentives" in my previous posts. So it's more like there is 1 incentive (entertainment) and plenty of disincentives (AD cost for mounts, AD cost of enchants, gold cost to switch enchants expecially with new professions becoming a gold sink, hours to re-grind boons, need to join a guild on each toon to get SH boons, AD cost for companions, AD cost for companion gear, AD cost for enchants to put on companion gear, refining cost to refine again all the artifact equipment and artifacts). And all the disincentives grow bigger and bigger the more you want to develop the alt. So big that you must spend, if you want to play, for example, 6 classes at high level, 120M AD total to develop all the toons. Else, you do not develop them, which means you cannot play end-game content, which means you lose "entertainment" cause you get stuck on the same old content.
The "incentive" you talk about, entertainment, is beaten by the milions and milions of AD required to gear up an alt past a certain point, and the hours and hours required to re-grind boons on said toon. "Entertainment" would be to actually play the alt. May be your entertainment is to spend tens of milions of AD on each alt to gear them up with enchants (16 enchants at rank 12/13, do your math, plus mounts, legendary mount, companions, companion gear and 6 more enchants on it, math is above in another post) and re-grind boons. My idea of entertainment is that if i already spent tens of milions of AD on my main, and months of play for boons, i do not have to do the same if i decide to play another class, but i am able to obviously learn the class leveling it up, but then gear it up to the same level of my main without repeating the whole process, expecially considering how long the process is, and how much it costs. Switching all the enchants costs about 40 gold. Plus the new gold cost of professions and the fact that you do not have leadership anymore to earn gold. The way it is now, creating an alt and playing it for "entertainment" past 12k iLvL costs too much AD and time. Those who have multiple geared alts are those players who've become rich through years of game, money spent, often both, or...other ways. Talking about hundred of milions of AD.
Even removing the gold cost for removing runestones and enchants, you would not solve the issue. Cause, for example, if i have a DC, i need different stats, which means different enchants. So simply switching enchants would only allow people to create mediocre toons, that despite a high iLvL, would have low efficiency in real gameplay/dungeons.
The truth right now is, unless they change something, playing alts for "entertainment" past a certain iLvL, costs so much AD and time that you must either make it a work or pay a ton of real money. Which means the game is very alt-unfriendly, or pay2playalts. Should be stated clearly by the devs. For example: if you want to develop more than one toon, be prepared to pay hundred of dollars/euros, or make it your job 8/10 hours a day, or give up.
They are not stopping you from playing alts, but they are penalizing those who actually try to develop them. The 100k RAD cap means that playing 1 toon or 6 toons, the amount of AD you can refine each day is the same. Difference is, playing and developing 6 toons costs 6 times more. Same with leadership changes. Developing alts, with current system, costs a lot. Now professions will require gold, which is needed to swap enchants and runestones from one toon to the other. More gold sink means less gold to swap enchants and runestones between toons, or the need to farm stuff to sell for gold (time sink). There are no practical incentives to developing alts. Only obstacles. The only positive part, in module 5, will be the chance to play another class. It will just cost players another bunch of milions of AD to develop the alt. Lol.
The 100k RAD cap has nothing to do with module 15. This is the preview forum, not the complain about module 14 forum.
There are plenty of incentives to develop alts. It's called "entertainment". If developing alts is not entertaining to you, then stop doing it. Neverwinter is free2play, not free4all. There are plenty of ways to earn AD, which do not require generating massive amounts of new AD. 100k RAD limit has nothing to do with module 15, and you should complain elsewhere about it.
I support the removal of the gold cost for removing runestones/enchantments.
The 100k cap is part of the problem. The other part is that the more you divide your time between characters the less able you are to advance any of them. This wouldn't be a problem if level actually determined power and the game wasn't a Monty Haul gear treadmill. Toss in that the devs periodically take a whack at builds/ characters.
Now about that ways to earn AD without generating new AD ? *cough*Leadership*cough*, which was nice for mitigating the cost of gearing up and was likely the primary source of profession trade goods (Not really certain on that if you have facts feel free to present them).
It's nice you support the removal of gold costs for removal of enchants, I hope that happens as well , though I am not holding my breath. This economic update stinks of Cryptic's usual philosophy of using thermonuclear weapons for petty crime prevention. ARRRR Someone abused salvage and a bug in Barovia ? Kill them all.
Lol i died at the "Kill them all". To me, it's more like cryptic letting a bug go for months/ exploit go for months, then use them as an excuse to go all infinity gauntlet on certain stuff, making it harder for players to do something without paying. Every source of AD you could invest on, to increase your AD income, was vaporized. Everything people could do to develop while not spending real money, or spending little real money, was vaporized. You want to play 1 toon and earn 100k a day? Mmmmh...ok. You want to invest in something to earn more? Not anymore! But you can pay real money for that! You want to earn something from professions? Not anymore! Do it for fun instead, while spending more gold! You want to play multiple toons and classes, and develop tham? Not really. Only a preview of another class. If you want to play multiple classes for real, pay or spend your entire life grinding, and may be in 5 years your 2nd toon will be geared.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,208Arc User
Lets assume you are right. So it's 3-5 min per character (Boring scrolling, task assignment; you have 9 slots, right?). And you have 50-54 characters(MAXED) - it's 200 min of your real life OR gameplay. I'm really curious how you do it MANUALLY. 3.5 hours? REALLY?
If you take 2 minutes per character, you are already very slow. I have 12 characters that can do leadership. It takes about 45 seconds each to deal with 9 slots + invocation. It may take another 10 to 20 seconds for the character to load (switch character). Anyway, my routine is to do first invocation + leadership for 12 characters. Then, go back to the first character. Do the 2nd invocation, collect mail, inventory clean up, ...
The new profession in mod 15 can be time consuming though.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Lets assume you are right. So it's 3-5 min per character (Boring scrolling, task assignment; you have 9 slots, right?). And you have 50-54 characters(MAXED) - it's 200 min of your real life OR gameplay. I'm really curious how you do it MANUALLY. 3.5 hours? REALLY?
If you take 2 minutes per character, you are already very slow. I have 12 characters that can do leadership. It takes about 45 seconds each to deal with 9 slots + invocation. It may take another 10 to 20 seconds for the character to load (switch character). Anyway, my routine is to do first invocation + leadership for 12 characters. Then, go back to the first character. Do the 2nd invocation, collect mail, inventory clean up, ...
The new profession in mod 15 can be time consuming though.
I finally got time to get in again and get past the delivery issue, and yes (at first glance) lots of little chained tasks to do anything = pain.
Lol i died at the "Kill them all". To me, it's more like cryptic letting a bug go for months/ exploit go for months, then use them as an excuse to go all infinity gauntlet on certain stuff, making it harder for players to do something without paying.
Yeah I enjoyed the comment in the overhaul thread "it's not gambling because you can earn them by playing the game", sort of like gambling isn't gambling in real life because you can earn money by getting a job.
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zephyriahMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,980Arc User
Lets assume you are right. So it's 3-5 min per character (Boring scrolling, task assignment; you have 9 slots, right?). And you have 50-54 characters(MAXED) - it's 200 min of your real life OR gameplay. I'm really curious how you do it MANUALLY. 3.5 hours? REALLY?
If you take 2 minutes per character, you are already very slow. I have 12 characters that can do leadership. It takes about 45 seconds each to deal with 9 slots + invocation. It may take another 10 to 20 seconds for the character to load (switch character). Anyway, my routine is to do first invocation + leadership for 12 characters. Then, go back to the first character. Do the 2nd invocation, collect mail, inventory clean up, ...
The new profession in mod 15 can be time consuming though.
On console, it averages about 45 secs for character load, not the 10 to 20 you cite. I haven't timed PC in awhile. If you are crafting crates X3 or more and filling 4 slots with tools and not just restarting single artisan leadership tasks, it can very easily go over 2 mins per character.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,208Arc User
Lets assume you are right. So it's 3-5 min per character (Boring scrolling, task assignment; you have 9 slots, right?). And you have 50-54 characters(MAXED) - it's 200 min of your real life OR gameplay. I'm really curious how you do it MANUALLY. 3.5 hours? REALLY?
If you take 2 minutes per character, you are already very slow. I have 12 characters that can do leadership. It takes about 45 seconds each to deal with 9 slots + invocation. It may take another 10 to 20 seconds for the character to load (switch character). Anyway, my routine is to do first invocation + leadership for 12 characters. Then, go back to the first character. Do the 2nd invocation, collect mail, inventory clean up, ...
The new profession in mod 15 can be time consuming though.
On console, it averages about 45 secs for character load, not the 10 to 20 you cite. I haven't timed PC in awhile. If you are crafting crates X3 or more and filling 4 slots with tools and not just restarting single artisan leadership tasks, it can very easily go over 2 mins per character.
I only play in PC. This morning, I finished 12 characters for both leadership (not crafting) and invocation within 12 minutes. I also don't know how one can bot in console (the original accusation). When I went back to the first character for the 2nd invocation, the timer said I need to wait for 3 minutes 12 seconds. The loading was fast this morning. It was within 5 seconds.
IMO, even for doing crafting with tool slots filled, it still should not take 2 minutes if you already decided what you want to craft. In PC, there is a filter. You can go to your task pretty quick without much scrolling.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
With the release of mod 15 coming, I am changing one manner in which I have found some enjoyment in the game: through alt characters.
My alt characters have always been used to support my one main toon: whether this was through leadership army AD farming (using only 12 alts), whether it was for invoking to receive coal wards or pres wards, refine points or coupons, whether it was for extra storage by running campaigns to get free bags and to buy packs that had free storage, whether it was to target events like winter and summer to get more event rewards and then light up or kick up a lot with guildies and friends, whether it was to gear up alts to get all the class artifacts so that I would have choices in my main build: everything has always been about ONE main toon.
Not everyone plays this way, and I completely understand. Mod 15 removes another avenue by which my own style of play has brought and ability to advance in the game. And, either I can adjust or leave. I have chosen to adjust. Some of those incentives are still in the game, but I am not excited about them as I was years ago. For example, I did not grind out my alts on summer event sahha this year, because, well...I did not care about it anymore. Perhaps this is what Cryptic is hoping, to target players like me who have enjoyed the built-in processes to help advance a main character. So be it.
But, here is the caution. With REMOVAL of means of advancement (through alt-main-feeding), there must be REPLACEMENT with clear understanding of progression and MASSIVE CONTENT to keep players engaged. Part of the reason I used alts was because, well, it kept me engaged in the game with some kind of perceivable progress. With that more removed in mod 15, I ask myself what is left for perceived progress. The answer is now CONTENT. So, I ask myself whether the CONTENT in mod 15 and beyond will be able to keep me engaged and excited for hours on end, with perceived advancement or progress. This is where, in my own style of play, I must answer in the negative. There is not enough CONTENT (professions included) in the next module to stimulate my desire to continue to play at the commitment I was at previously.
Yes, I will play mod 15 and beyond. No, I do not see myself committed to advancement and progress in game as before. I will use Neverwinter as supplemental entertainment, rather than extended or primary entertainment. In other words, a long term player who has devoted hours to the game (and real money) is now turned into a casual player, NOT because the process of alt-feeding-main is being limited, but because REMOVAL of in-game means for progress is not simultaneously being REPLACED by loads of content.
On console, it averages about 45 secs for character load, not the 10 to 20 you cite. I haven't timed PC in awhile. If you are crafting crates X3 or more and filling 4 slots with tools and not just restarting single artisan leadership tasks, it can very easily go over 2 mins per character.
I'm on PC and the load times vary depending upon where I'm logging into and what computer I'm using. Often, I'm using my work laptop, which doesn't have as good specs as my home desktop computer. So even leaving my characters in the Grand Emporium, which doesn't require all of PE to load, takes 10 to 20 seconds to load the characters on this laptop. If I'm at home on my desktop computer, they'll load in a mere 2 or 3 seconds maximum. If I leave the characters in PE and log into them on this laptop, I'm looking at upwards of 30 seconds per character.
As for time required to do professions themselves, eight of my nine characters are doing 8x crate tasks (labor with 2 heroes, astral diamonds with 2 heroes, then JC/Leaterworking/Alchemy/Mailsmithing/Platesmithing/Weaponsmithing with four tools each), and then 1x Clerics of Ilmater. The ninth character is leveling leadership so 3x Train for the Protector's Tourney (L21, name might be slightly off), 3x Clerics of Ilmater, and 1x Labor (all of these with 2 heroes). I also have to do my wife's characters, five of whom are doing the same tasks, except replacing crates of gold with another Clerics of Ilmater task. I've gotten fast at assigning the assets, but it still takes me almost half an hour to do all of them.
On console, it averages about 45 secs for character load, not the 10 to 20 you cite. I haven't timed PC in awhile. If you are crafting crates X3 or more and filling 4 slots with tools and not just restarting single artisan leadership tasks, it can very easily go over 2 mins per character.
I don't know where you leave your toons but I'm on console and if it takes 10 seconds to load in I think that's slow. My alts are all in the same location and I can get through 9 of them in under a minute per toon. The main 8 I play and leave scattered around the realms take a little longer depending on what zone I left them in.
Some areas take a bit longer (Barovia, Chult zones I'm looking at you) but I've found WoD and earlier zones load faster since there are fewer people there most times.
I'm also on a plain old XBox One. My buddies that run the XB1 X load in even faster.
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zephyriahMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,980Arc User
On console, it averages about 45 secs for character load, not the 10 to 20 you cite. I haven't timed PC in awhile. If you are crafting crates X3 or more and filling 4 slots with tools and not just restarting single artisan leadership tasks, it can very easily go over 2 mins per character.
I don't know where you leave your toons but I'm on console and if it takes 10 seconds to load in I think that's slow. My alts are all in the same location and I can get through 9 of them in under a minute per toon. The main 8 I play and leave scattered around the realms take a little longer depending on what zone I left them in.
Some areas take a bit longer (Barovia, Chult zones I'm looking at you) but I've found WoD and earlier zones load faster since there are fewer people there most times.
I'm also on a plain old XBox One. My buddies that run the XB1 X load in even faster.
I park in PE with most alts, and Barovia and Chult with the most active characters, so that might be the issue. I'll try moving a few.
I wish we could trade in extra character slots, since this mod is making them completely useless by getting rid of salvage/leadership. Like for reals what is the point of getting epic cards from my 11 characters when i can' get salvage from em. Doesn't even have to be full value or for zen just something anything.
Coalescent ward chances are never a bad thing. pray and instead of salvage, just run a leveling dungeon once. The first random queue of the day is 9200 and you get just under 4k bonus rad from praying.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited October 2018
also you guys have all those alts for the winter / summer/ whatever event gifts to massively stock up on valuable stuff/ pre wards/ mounts .. that has not been " invalidated either" for now ... lol
also the alt accounts let you stock up invocation bags / rps and shop/ open for zen coupons as well when you need them
But are they really giving the same amount of wealth? I think that this mod is limiting the wealth and limiting your AD production... AD refinement is now capped, salvage is no longer, professions is more costly (aside from not having any recipe worth making). and even if they give rough AD for playing the game it is still capped at 100K. I mean you could play your brains out and get 1mil AD a day but you still have to wait 10 days to refine it all... I think their REAL goal for this mod is to get people to spend real money for Zen rather than get the AD needed to exchange for Zen. Just my 2 cents...
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,208Arc User
Character slot is the cheapest inventory space in the game.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
> @romromero said: > I think their REAL goal for this mod is to get people to spend real money for Zen rather than get the AD needed to exchange for Zen. Just my 2 cents...
> I think their REAL goal for this mod is to get people to spend real money for Zen rather than get the AD needed to exchange for Zen. Just my 2 cents...
+1
That´s what they go for definitely, a reasonable attitude... but they should deliver some unbugged content on top, if they want to get payed, thinking about: 1.MSP (awefull endboss) 2. CODG, fixed to some degree, but it took it´s time 3. Castle ravenloft endboss... where to start 4. ??
Otherwise there won´t be many player left to play buggy content without a way to earn AD or rewards. Every mod they have to care about balance issues wich should have been adressed and thought before the release of this game, a lot of time, wasted over and over again on the same topic. Time they should spend on content, but can´t since they can´t achieve a healthy balance between buffs and classes for ages now. They get closer to it, agreed. On top they create new "must-have-powercreep-stuff" noone asked for, breaking the shaky balance again, a vicious circle.
I wish we could trade in extra character slots, since this mod is making them completely useless by getting rid of salvage/leadership. Like for reals what is the point of getting epic cards from my 11 characters when i can' get salvage from em. Doesn't even have to be full value or for zen just something anything.
Coalescent ward chances are never a bad thing. pray and instead of salvage, just run a leveling dungeon once. The first random queue of the day is 9200 and you get just under 4k bonus rad from praying.
Great idea! Oh, wait. Unless you're already running the RLQ once a day. Then what? Run it 9 more times per additional character per day?
I park in PE with most alts, and Barovia and Chult with the most active characters, so that might be the issue. I'll try moving a few.
PE is definitely one of the worst places to load into on multiple characters. It's up there with loading into strongholds.
I know some people swear that leaving toons in super early zones like tower district helps their load times. Also during events like siege i find it fast to load into that zone for some reason. While the perfect zone has been different for some of my friends we all agree that the current areas and PE are the worst.
Comments
And you think professions should be limited to one or two characters per account? LoL
Why not just ask for Cryptic to completely remove professions?? LoL
Or why not just ask Cryptic to limit all accounts to only one or two characters? LOL
Not gonna happen.
In regards to the salvage change, do you know that some players actually play their alts?
Cryptic is not stopping us from playing (and earning AD) on alternate characters.
Honestly, if invoking and leadership with my toons is from no benefit any more, let it be. I hate to do it anyway.
No clue where this game is heading for atm, we will see. In case no new content is implemented, this game is done i think, so who cares about invoking and leadership.
I got 8 chars, every class, only to have a base to trashtalk in forum about classes.
Developing alts, with current system, costs a lot. Now professions will require gold, which is needed to swap enchants and runestones from one toon to the other. More gold sink means less gold to swap enchants and runestones between toons, or the need to farm stuff to sell for gold (time sink).
There are no practical incentives to developing alts. Only obstacles. The only positive part, in module 5, will be the chance to play another class. It will just cost players another bunch of milions of AD to develop the alt. Lol.
This is the preview forum, not the complain about module 14 forum.
There are plenty of incentives to develop alts. It's called "entertainment".
If developing alts is not entertaining to you, then stop doing it.
Neverwinter is free2play, not free4all.
There are plenty of ways to earn AD, which do not require generating massive amounts of new AD.
100k RAD limit has nothing to do with module 15, and you should complain elsewhere about it.
I support the removal of the gold cost for removing runestones/enchantments.
Personally I don't have 50 characters, because that *would* take too long for my taste. My resetting-for-the-day first roll takes me about 30 minutes: a quick pray on every toon to start the 15 minute timer without touching professions, then start rolling professions and then praying as soon as the 15 minute time elapses. At the end of all the professions start the toon list over again to pray on the ones I passed in the list before their first 15 minutes was up.
There are only a few other things in the game that I could spend 30 minutes on an make as much profit, when you count the Leadership boxes, prayer boxes, and XP rewards. Most of those other takes-30-minute profit centers (like, running a Random Advanced) are only profitable once a day, so if I'm going to get 60 minutes to play, it's worth doing those two things. Especially when I can do it while doing something else, like watching TV or reading news posts.
EDIT: You mention later that you prefer to look for undervalued items in the AH and repost them higher. Sure, that's something that could likely beat my 30 minute profit margin, and it's not restricted to once a day. But it feels too much like work to me, so I avoid doing it, and this is good for people like you who *do* like doing it.
I agree that putting the kind of effort into your alts should be rewarded. Your ideas for making enchantments claimable from the store or the claims agent or elsewhere are good. It would certainly reduce the grind for improving alts. I like your idea that the number, types, and levels of enchantments claimable by other characters on the account should correspond to the number, types, and levels of enchantments on the main character. The main problem I see with this is how hard it would hit the economy and the market for enchantments, marks of potency, enchanting stones, and refining stones (gems: peridot, diamond, etc). If the developers want people to be able to run alts, they need to start looking at ideas like this and figure out how to reduce the grind a bit.
You say "there are plenty of incentives" to develop alts. Then you talk about "entertainment" only. So 1 incentive. I brought plentiy of "disincentives" in my previous posts. So it's more like there is 1 incentive (entertainment) and plenty of disincentives (AD cost for mounts, AD cost of enchants, gold cost to switch enchants expecially with new professions becoming a gold sink, hours to re-grind boons, need to join a guild on each toon to get SH boons, AD cost for companions, AD cost for companion gear, AD cost for enchants to put on companion gear, refining cost to refine again all the artifact equipment and artifacts). And all the disincentives grow bigger and bigger the more you want to develop the alt. So big that you must spend, if you want to play, for example, 6 classes at high level, 120M AD total to develop all the toons. Else, you do not develop them, which means you cannot play end-game content, which means you lose "entertainment" cause you get stuck on the same old content.
The "incentive" you talk about, entertainment, is beaten by the milions and milions of AD required to gear up an alt past a certain point, and the hours and hours required to re-grind boons on said toon. "Entertainment" would be to actually play the alt. May be your entertainment is to spend tens of milions of AD on each alt to gear them up with enchants (16 enchants at rank 12/13, do your math, plus mounts, legendary mount, companions, companion gear and 6 more enchants on it, math is above in another post) and re-grind boons. My idea of entertainment is that if i already spent tens of milions of AD on my main, and months of play for boons, i do not have to do the same if i decide to play another class, but i am able to obviously learn the class leveling it up, but then gear it up to the same level of my main without repeating the whole process, expecially considering how long the process is, and how much it costs.
Switching all the enchants costs about 40 gold. Plus the new gold cost of professions and the fact that you do not have leadership anymore to earn gold.
The way it is now, creating an alt and playing it for "entertainment" past 12k iLvL costs too much AD and time. Those who have multiple geared alts are those players who've become rich through years of game, money spent, often both, or...other ways. Talking about hundred of milions of AD.
Even removing the gold cost for removing runestones and enchants, you would not solve the issue. Cause, for example, if i have a DC, i need different stats, which means different enchants. So simply switching enchants would only allow people to create mediocre toons, that despite a high iLvL, would have low efficiency in real gameplay/dungeons.
The truth right now is, unless they change something, playing alts for "entertainment" past a certain iLvL, costs so much AD and time that you must either make it a work or pay a ton of real money.
Which means the game is very alt-unfriendly, or pay2playalts. Should be stated clearly by the devs. For example: if you want to develop more than one toon, be prepared to pay hundred of dollars/euros, or make it your job 8/10 hours a day, or give up.
Now about that ways to earn AD without generating new AD ? *cough*Leadership*cough*, which was nice for mitigating the cost of gearing up and was likely the primary source of profession trade goods (Not really certain on that if you have facts feel free to present them).
It's nice you support the removal of gold costs for removal of enchants, I hope that happens as well , though I am not holding my breath. This economic update stinks of Cryptic's usual philosophy of using thermonuclear weapons for petty crime prevention. ARRRR Someone abused salvage and a bug in Barovia ? Kill them all.
To me, it's more like cryptic letting a bug go for months/ exploit go for months, then use them as an excuse to go all infinity gauntlet on certain stuff, making it harder for players to do something without paying.
Every source of AD you could invest on, to increase your AD income, was vaporized. Everything people could do to develop while not spending real money, or spending little real money, was vaporized.
You want to play 1 toon and earn 100k a day? Mmmmh...ok.
You want to invest in something to earn more? Not anymore! But you can pay real money for that!
You want to earn something from professions? Not anymore! Do it for fun instead, while spending more gold!
You want to play multiple toons and classes, and develop tham? Not really. Only a preview of another class. If you want to play multiple classes for real, pay or spend your entire life grinding, and may be in 5 years your 2nd toon will be geared.
I have 12 characters that can do leadership.
It takes about 45 seconds each to deal with 9 slots + invocation.
It may take another 10 to 20 seconds for the character to load (switch character).
Anyway, my routine is to do first invocation + leadership for 12 characters.
Then, go back to the first character. Do the 2nd invocation, collect mail, inventory clean up, ...
The new profession in mod 15 can be time consuming though.
IMO, even for doing crafting with tool slots filled, it still should not take 2 minutes if you already decided what you want to craft. In PC, there is a filter. You can go to your task pretty quick without much scrolling.
My alt characters have always been used to support my one main toon: whether this was through leadership army AD farming (using only 12 alts), whether it was for invoking to receive coal wards or pres wards, refine points or coupons, whether it was for extra storage by running campaigns to get free bags and to buy packs that had free storage, whether it was to target events like winter and summer to get more event rewards and then light up or kick up a lot with guildies and friends, whether it was to gear up alts to get all the class artifacts so that I would have choices in my main build: everything has always been about ONE main toon.
Not everyone plays this way, and I completely understand. Mod 15 removes another avenue by which my own style of play has brought and ability to advance in the game. And, either I can adjust or leave. I have chosen to adjust. Some of those incentives are still in the game, but I am not excited about them as I was years ago. For example, I did not grind out my alts on summer event sahha this year, because, well...I did not care about it anymore. Perhaps this is what Cryptic is hoping, to target players like me who have enjoyed the built-in processes to help advance a main character. So be it.
But, here is the caution. With REMOVAL of means of advancement (through alt-main-feeding), there must be REPLACEMENT with clear understanding of progression and MASSIVE CONTENT to keep players engaged. Part of the reason I used alts was because, well, it kept me engaged in the game with some kind of perceivable progress. With that more removed in mod 15, I ask myself what is left for perceived progress. The answer is now CONTENT. So, I ask myself whether the CONTENT in mod 15 and beyond will be able to keep me engaged and excited for hours on end, with perceived advancement or progress. This is where, in my own style of play, I must answer in the negative. There is not enough CONTENT (professions included) in the next module to stimulate my desire to continue to play at the commitment I was at previously.
Yes, I will play mod 15 and beyond. No, I do not see myself committed to advancement and progress in game as before. I will use Neverwinter as supplemental entertainment, rather than extended or primary entertainment. In other words, a long term player who has devoted hours to the game (and real money) is now turned into a casual player, NOT because the process of alt-feeding-main is being limited, but because REMOVAL of in-game means for progress is not simultaneously being REPLACED by loads of content.
Cheers all!
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
As for time required to do professions themselves, eight of my nine characters are doing 8x crate tasks (labor with 2 heroes, astral diamonds with 2 heroes, then JC/Leaterworking/Alchemy/Mailsmithing/Platesmithing/Weaponsmithing with four tools each), and then 1x Clerics of Ilmater. The ninth character is leveling leadership so 3x Train for the Protector's Tourney (L21, name might be slightly off), 3x Clerics of Ilmater, and 1x Labor (all of these with 2 heroes). I also have to do my wife's characters, five of whom are doing the same tasks, except replacing crates of gold with another Clerics of Ilmater task. I've gotten fast at assigning the assets, but it still takes me almost half an hour to do all of them.
Some areas take a bit longer (Barovia, Chult zones I'm looking at you) but I've found WoD and earlier zones load faster since there are fewer people there most times.
I'm also on a plain old XBox One. My buddies that run the XB1 X load in even faster.
also the alt accounts let you stock up invocation bags / rps and shop/ open for zen coupons as well
> I think their REAL goal for this mod is to get people to spend real money for Zen rather than get the AD needed to exchange for Zen. Just my 2 cents...
+1
1.MSP (awefull endboss)
2. CODG, fixed to some degree, but it took it´s time
3. Castle ravenloft endboss... where to start
4. ??
Otherwise there won´t be many player left to play buggy content without a way to earn AD or rewards.
Every mod they have to care about balance issues wich should have been adressed and thought before the release of this game, a lot of time, wasted over and over again on the same topic.
Time they should spend on content, but can´t since they can´t achieve a healthy balance between buffs and classes for ages now. They get closer to it, agreed.
On top they create new "must-have-powercreep-stuff" noone asked for, breaking the shaky balance again, a vicious circle.
I know some people swear that leaving toons in super early zones like tower district helps their load times. Also during events like siege i find it fast to load into that zone for some reason. While the perfect zone has been different for some of my friends we all agree that the current areas and PE are the worst.
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k