Nah... I actually agree with what was said... I dont care how long someone has been playing, those stats that have been posted do not look right in the slightest. Something dodgy is most deffo going on to get K:D like those.
Some of these players are glitching the game something rotten to get wins and kills... even then every single one of them have more deaths already than some of those PC players in far far FAR less games.
Other than the gf who runs kv and guarded assault, there's no one else there glitching or doing anything fishy now that the br boys seem to have given up on boosting for the time being.
I have fought and killed most of the players on P1 and I can tell you with certainty that at least 50% of those players listed use some form of glitch/bug to get where they are. A good few of them are Stun-Bots who turn you into a training dummy not allowed to fight back... some of them abuse broken multi-procs (2 of them I played with/against last night)... some of them abuse broken cool-down times or get around CC resist stacks... some of them throw games (I was on a fantastic team last night against good players, my team refused to take nodes)... some of them quit and disconnect before the game finishes and they lose... some of them campfire sit when against own guildmates... I could go on and on with this...
I think we may have different definitions of glitches/bugs. It also could be that you are only playing from the perspective of an archer. Trs are obviously broken, but none are using glitches. They all drop smokebomb, bloodbath, and use sod. Some will use the undead cowl or mane, but i don't consider that a glitch/bug now that mane does't multiproc.
No doubt that the cc diminishing return system that the devs put in a few mods back is bad and will almost never kick in before you die, but mod14 removed the most annoying cc in pvp, so now cc really is not that bad if you are playing a tanky class, or a class that can cc them back (so not an archer). Cc is annoying, but there's no cc glitch/bug; just a flawed system.
Also, i haven't seen anyone else lose games on purpose other than the br kiddos, like i had said before, but they aren't even on page one n haven't played in well over a week. I watch my team carefully, and usually if someone is not playing, it's because they are getting farmed, most likely by a tr, or teams are not balanced and there's no point in trying.
Nah... I actually agree with what was said... I dont care how long someone has been playing, those stats that have been posted do not look right in the slightest. Something dodgy is most deffo going on to get K:D like those.
Some of these players are glitching the game something rotten to get wins and kills... even then every single one of them have more deaths already than some of those PC players in far far FAR less games.
Other than the gf who runs kv and guarded assault, there's no one else there glitching or doing anything fishy now that the br boys seem to have given up on boosting for the time being.
I have fought and killed most of the players on P1 and I can tell you with certainty that at least 50% of those players listed use some form of glitch/bug to get where they are. A good few of them are Stun-Bots who turn you into a training dummy not allowed to fight back... some of them abuse broken multi-procs (2 of them I played with/against last night)... some of them abuse broken cool-down times or get around CC resist stacks... some of them throw games (I was on a fantastic team last night against good players, my team refused to take nodes)... some of them quit and disconnect before the game finishes and they lose... some of them campfire sit when against own guildmates... I could go on and on with this...
I think we may have different definitions of glitches/bugs. It also could be that you are only playing from the perspective of an archer. Trs are obviously broken, but none are using glitches. They all drop smokebomb, bloodbath, and use sod. Some will use the undead cowl or mane, but i don't consider that a glitch/bug now that mane does't multiproc.
No doubt that the cc diminishing return system that the devs put in a few mods back is bad and will almost never kick in before you die, but mod14 removed the most annoying cc in pvp, so now cc really is not that bad if you are playing a tanky class, or a class that can cc them back (so not an archer). Cc is annoying, but there's no cc glitch/bug; just a flawed system.
Also, i haven't seen anyone else lose games on purpose other than the br kiddos, like i had said before, but they aren't even on page one n haven't played in well over a week. I watch my team carefully, and usually if someone is not playing, it's because they are getting farmed, most likely by a tr, or teams are not balanced and there's no point in trying.
Knocking you prone every single time Bloodbath or whatever is used on you is a Glitch, considering it can be spammed infinte times... yet again a Helmet is causing deaths, multiple TR's are doing it. So not only are you getting perma-stunned you are getting knocked on your backside as well at the same time.
Then something else, I have not figured out what probably the same thing, is knocking me prone whilst I am attacking players usually a TR again.
I watch players when I think something is up... throwing games can include sitting up the top of the map waiting to fight players and never ever going near a node. Some supposedly "top" players I have watched do this when they are on a team they do not like.... I could name 4 players on that screen I have witnessed doing this.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Throwing a match is pretty common on PC also, when two buddies face each other in different temas and contest all the time on one node, instead of leaving it to let other cap, mainly because they got some "testosteron issues".
Cowl+TR is redicules, sometimes you get stunned duiring Bloodbath, guess that´s the "pants" proccing... those items have to go and cryptic should feel ashame to make it last that long.
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
@icexnine Bloodbath is bugged, it was reported by a TR iirc, whatever it's about it's x2 times as effective as it should, damage dealt or damage increase.
I only play my CW and whilst I think the TR has had a good run the last few Mods in PVP, this screenshot does not really reflect the current state of TR's in Mod 14 as much as it does The Mane of the Manticore.
-snip-
My thoughts,
Mod 14 PvP is better than Mod 13. From my perspective as a CW the hunt gear gives classes like the CW access to stats we never could get before like insane defense, deflect and HP which is great. I'm sure other classes benefit from this also.
The only thing still ruining PvP is broken gear/items and the players that use them.
This is equally the Dev's and players fault IMO.
It's not just the gear.
I thought that as well when mod 14 dropped in PC, that the changes which were made were going to be good, but no, when you have only a few classes dominate everything, then you know it's broken.
By the way, yes the CW can benefit from defense, deflect, HP, but when you have classes that don't need that (due to their class mechanics) then they can stack EVERYTHING else. That puts the classes which need to stack it at a disadvantage.
I play a CW as well, and I am the only CW currently on page 1 of the Leaderboard on PC:
8 out of the Top 10 players are TR; and of the top 20, they constitute 60% of the players.
So no, it isn't just broken gear/items ...
lol what is that gf with 1000+ kills n 18 deaths? He just quits when hes about to die? or it's just straight scrubs on pc? Cause no chance that could happen on xbox. Not in the solo q with the trash teammates you get paired up with most games. and then u got trs + cc on the other team. It's just straight dying through your shield from bloodbath, getting jumped by 2-4 ppl while one tr fights your entire team on your home point.
a tr with that k/d would be believable, but not a gf. The gf's shield literally doesn't even stop bloodbath a good amount of the time (you'll take full damage)
Yes this GF just quits when he is about to die. He is also the same TR with 3316 kills and 11 deaths. He is known to throw matches (i.e. abandon instance) when he is about to get a 'death' count, even though he could probably single handedly bring his team to victory. He uses Mane, Sandy's pants, but draws the line on stamina/AP drains. He has rank 14 enchants, and is BiS on every level.
He also plays an HR, SW, CW and OP, which range from pages 2-10 on the leaderboard, and knows about most effective loops/playstyles of many classes, but generally likes to play the FoTM/Y classes. He mainly does PvP almost exclusively, and is a moderator of one of the PvP channels on PC.
That's pathetic, but still kind of impressive that he would go to that length for something that offers no reward and means so little. And still has around 10 kills a game. PC must be miles behind xbox in terms of competitiveness and full of bots or something. That or the trs are paid off to not attack him. Its literally one stun/daze from anyone, followed by bloodbath, and your dead. HAMSTER, i could probably do that, but id have to not play 50% of my matches, and the other 50% steamroll 5ks averaging 20 kills a game. I suppose I'd have to make a note of when nobody decent is playing too, as well as what times to avoid queuing. It'd be a lot of work, but totally worth it...
To be fair, one of his first classes was a GF, so he knows how to play it. This GF is fast, has about 80+% deflect, but can also dish out large amounts of damage. It is nothing to be sneezed at. You can't take one look at his GF stats and say that the rest of the PC PvP community is garbage, that's pretty pointless. Another way of looking at it (erroneously) is that his GF is just miles ahead of any GF in console, and then adjust the players' abilities accordingly.
Nah... I actually agree with what was said... I dont care how long someone has been playing, those stats that have been posted do not look right in the slightest. Something dodgy is most deffo going on to get K:D like those.
Some of these players are glitching the game something rotten to get wins and kills... even then every single one of them have more deaths already than some of those PC players in far far FAR less games.
The GF is actually that good on PC, he has also extreme movement speed as SM and impenetration ring. When he has 10% hp left he can always run away and get a heal then come back.
That´s what many player actually do. And speed is one of the most important things in times of butchering TR.
I only play my CW and whilst I think the TR has had a good run the last few Mods in PVP, this screenshot does not really reflect the current state of TR's in Mod 14 as much as it does The Mane of the Manticore.
-snip-
My thoughts,
Mod 14 PvP is better than Mod 13. From my perspective as a CW the hunt gear gives classes like the CW access to stats we never could get before like insane defense, deflect and HP which is great. I'm sure other classes benefit from this also.
The only thing still ruining PvP is broken gear/items and the players that use them.
This is equally the Dev's and players fault IMO.
It's not just the gear.
I thought that as well when mod 14 dropped in PC, that the changes which were made were going to be good, but no, when you have only a few classes dominate everything, then you know it's broken.
By the way, yes the CW can benefit from defense, deflect, HP, but when you have classes that don't need that (due to their class mechanics) then they can stack EVERYTHING else. That puts the classes which need to stack it at a disadvantage.
I play a CW as well, and I am the only CW currently on page 1 of the Leaderboard on PC:
8 out of the Top 10 players are TR; and of the top 20, they constitute 60% of the players.
So no, it isn't just broken gear/items ...
lol what is that gf with 1000+ kills n 18 deaths? He just quits when hes about to die? or it's just straight scrubs on pc? Cause no chance that could happen on xbox. Not in the solo q with the trash teammates you get paired up with most games. and then u got trs + cc on the other team. It's just straight dying through your shield from bloodbath, getting jumped by 2-4 ppl while one tr fights your entire team on your home point.
a tr with that k/d would be believable, but not a gf. The gf's shield literally doesn't even stop bloodbath a good amount of the time (you'll take full damage)
Yes this GF just quits when he is about to die. He is also the same TR with 3316 kills and 11 deaths. He is known to throw matches (i.e. abandon instance) when he is about to get a 'death' count, even though he could probably single handedly bring his team to victory. He uses Mane, Sandy's pants, but draws the line on stamina/AP drains. He has rank 14 enchants, and is BiS on every level.
He also plays an HR, SW, CW and OP, which range from pages 2-10 on the leaderboard, and knows about most effective loops/playstyles of many classes, but generally likes to play the FoTM/Y classes. He mainly does PvP almost exclusively, and is a moderator of one of the PvP channels on PC.
That's pathetic, but still kind of impressive that he would go to that length for something that offers no reward and means so little. And still has around 10 kills a game. PC must be miles behind xbox in terms of competitiveness and full of bots or something. That or the trs are paid off to not attack him. Its literally one stun/daze from anyone, followed by bloodbath, and your dead. HAMSTER, i could probably do that, but id have to not play 50% of my matches, and the other 50% steamroll 5ks averaging 20 kills a game. I suppose I'd have to make a note of when nobody decent is playing too, as well as what times to avoid queuing. It'd be a lot of work, but totally worth it...
To be fair, one of his first classes was a GF, so he knows how to play it. This GF is fast, has about 80+% deflect, but can also dish out large amounts of damage. It is nothing to be sneezed at. You can't take one look at his GF stats and say that the rest of the PC PvP community is garbage, that's pretty pointless. Another way of looking at it (erroneously) is that his GF is just miles ahead of any GF in console, and then adjust the players' abilities accordingly.
Nah... I actually agree with what was said... I dont care how long someone has been playing, those stats that have been posted do not look right in the slightest. Something dodgy is most deffo going on to get K:D like those.
Some of these players are glitching the game something rotten to get wins and kills... even then every single one of them have more deaths already than some of those PC players in far far FAR less games.
The GF is actually that good on PC, he has also extreme movement speed as SM and impenetration ring. When he has 10% hp left he can always run away and get a heal then come back.
sounds fast! does he make rocket ship noises as he runs?
bottom line is: you will get cc'd and die, or you will quit. Even though i'm not on pc, It's clear he has a good team everytime he plays, or the alternative is that there are no other good players on pc, which is understandable given there are much better mmos on pc in addition to the fact that neverwinter's pvp competition is as nonexistent as its developer support.
I only play my CW and whilst I think the TR has had a good run the last few Mods in PVP, this screenshot does not really reflect the current state of TR's in Mod 14 as much as it does The Mane of the Manticore.
-snip-
My thoughts,
Mod 14 PvP is better than Mod 13. From my perspective as a CW the hunt gear gives classes like the CW access to stats we never could get before like insane defense, deflect and HP which is great. I'm sure other classes benefit from this also.
The only thing still ruining PvP is broken gear/items and the players that use them.
This is equally the Dev's and players fault IMO.
It's not just the gear.
I thought that as well when mod 14 dropped in PC, that the changes which were made were going to be good, but no, when you have only a few classes dominate everything, then you know it's broken.
By the way, yes the CW can benefit from defense, deflect, HP, but when you have classes that don't need that (due to their class mechanics) then they can stack EVERYTHING else. That puts the classes which need to stack it at a disadvantage.
I play a CW as well, and I am the only CW currently on page 1 of the Leaderboard on PC:
8 out of the Top 10 players are TR; and of the top 20, they constitute 60% of the players.
So no, it isn't just broken gear/items ...
lol what is that gf with 1000+ kills n 18 deaths? He just quits when hes about to die? or it's just straight scrubs on pc? Cause no chance that could happen on xbox. Not in the solo q with the trash teammates you get paired up with most games. and then u got trs + cc on the other team. It's just straight dying through your shield from bloodbath, getting jumped by 2-4 ppl while one tr fights your entire team on your home point.
a tr with that k/d would be believable, but not a gf. The gf's shield literally doesn't even stop bloodbath a good amount of the time (you'll take full damage)
Yes this GF just quits when he is about to die. He is also the same TR with 3316 kills and 11 deaths. He is known to throw matches (i.e. abandon instance) when he is about to get a 'death' count, even though he could probably single handedly bring his team to victory. He uses Mane, Sandy's pants, but draws the line on stamina/AP drains. He has rank 14 enchants, and is BiS on every level.
He also plays an HR, SW, CW and OP, which range from pages 2-10 on the leaderboard, and knows about most effective loops/playstyles of many classes, but generally likes to play the FoTM/Y classes. He mainly does PvP almost exclusively, and is a moderator of one of the PvP channels on PC.
That's pathetic, but still kind of impressive that he would go to that length for something that offers no reward and means so little. And still has around 10 kills a game. PC must be miles behind xbox in terms of competitiveness and full of bots or something. That or the trs are paid off to not attack him. Its literally one stun/daze from anyone, followed by bloodbath, and your dead. HAMSTER, i could probably do that, but id have to not play 50% of my matches, and the other 50% steamroll 5ks averaging 20 kills a game. I suppose I'd have to make a note of when nobody decent is playing too, as well as what times to avoid queuing. It'd be a lot of work, but totally worth it...
To be fair, one of his first classes was a GF, so he knows how to play it. This GF is fast, has about 80+% deflect, but can also dish out large amounts of damage. It is nothing to be sneezed at. You can't take one look at his GF stats and say that the rest of the PC PvP community is garbage, that's pretty pointless. Another way of looking at it (erroneously) is that his GF is just miles ahead of any GF in console, and then adjust the players' abilities accordingly.
Nah... I actually agree with what was said... I dont care how long someone has been playing, those stats that have been posted do not look right in the slightest. Something dodgy is most deffo going on to get K:D like those.
Some of these players are glitching the game something rotten to get wins and kills... even then every single one of them have more deaths already than some of those PC players in far far FAR less games.
The GF is actually that good on PC, he has also extreme movement speed as SM and impenetration ring. When he has 10% hp left he can always run away and get a heal then come back.
sounds fast! does he make rocket ship noises as he runs?
bottom line is: you will get cc'd and die, or you will quit. Even though i'm not on pc, It's clear he has a good team everytime he plays, or the alternative is that there are no other good players on pc, which is understandable given there are much better mmos on pc in addition to the fact that neverwinter's pvp competition is as nonexistent as its developer support.
Lol. You forget the other alternative: This GF is just miles ahead of console players, which is understandable because on PC we have player lock targeting, and console doesn't, which benefits a few classes, primarily the GF and SW
I only play my CW and whilst I think the TR has had a good run the last few Mods in PVP, this screenshot does not really reflect the current state of TR's in Mod 14 as much as it does The Mane of the Manticore.
-snip-
My thoughts,
Mod 14 PvP is better than Mod 13. From my perspective as a CW the hunt gear gives classes like the CW access to stats we never could get before like insane defense, deflect and HP which is great. I'm sure other classes benefit from this also.
The only thing still ruining PvP is broken gear/items and the players that use them.
This is equally the Dev's and players fault IMO.
It's not just the gear.
I thought that as well when mod 14 dropped in PC, that the changes which were made were going to be good, but no, when you have only a few classes dominate everything, then you know it's broken.
By the way, yes the CW can benefit from defense, deflect, HP, but when you have classes that don't need that (due to their class mechanics) then they can stack EVERYTHING else. That puts the classes which need to stack it at a disadvantage.
I play a CW as well, and I am the only CW currently on page 1 of the Leaderboard on PC:
8 out of the Top 10 players are TR; and of the top 20, they constitute 60% of the players.
So no, it isn't just broken gear/items ...
lol what is that gf with 1000+ kills n 18 deaths? He just quits when hes about to die? or it's just straight scrubs on pc? Cause no chance that could happen on xbox. Not in the solo q with the trash teammates you get paired up with most games. and then u got trs + cc on the other team. It's just straight dying through your shield from bloodbath, getting jumped by 2-4 ppl while one tr fights your entire team on your home point.
a tr with that k/d would be believable, but not a gf. The gf's shield literally doesn't even stop bloodbath a good amount of the time (you'll take full damage)
Yes this GF just quits when he is about to die. He is also the same TR with 3316 kills and 11 deaths. He is known to throw matches (i.e. abandon instance) when he is about to get a 'death' count, even though he could probably single handedly bring his team to victory. He uses Mane, Sandy's pants, but draws the line on stamina/AP drains. He has rank 14 enchants, and is BiS on every level.
He also plays an HR, SW, CW and OP, which range from pages 2-10 on the leaderboard, and knows about most effective loops/playstyles of many classes, but generally likes to play the FoTM/Y classes. He mainly does PvP almost exclusively, and is a moderator of one of the PvP channels on PC.
this GF never quit when he is about to die, but his TR do only sometimes, as you can see both his GF, TR has very good win/lose ratio if he do it a lot then the ratio will suck cuz quiting a game count as lose even your team win eventually
No.... you can completely disconnect before the game is over and come back to it later in the day. You do no suffer a loss which I believe is a bug. So if someone is on the losing team thery can get out of taking a loss... I think that is yet another thing that sucks... a lot of people do that on the X1 and it annoys the hell out of me.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
THE PVP is SO Broken its taken me from thinking this game was...okish to Complete Trash in a matter of playing only 1 month i am completely Over Neverwinter Which is a Shame as Im sad to see What These Devs HAve Done to What the Original Developers Of D@D BG1 BG2 and Neverwinter1,...This is Neaither a Successfull Predacessor nor is it "FUN" at all to play. Its long, i Easily spend 20 mins just running to most places So forgive me when i quite Enjoy PVP as its not a complete Watse of my time,,,....oh Wait whats that, Actually it turns out it is Also a Complete Waste of TIme PVP is TRASH,..... BALANACE IT Before you lose any More Players over it, I personally Have Absolutly No interest in the Pve of this Game. for that i have the Original Neverwinter and ive still never finished it, this game is a Sad Excuse to Racket in Money And p2w Tatics, IF this is the Future of Neverwinter and PVP then i Prey its over quickly as TRash Games Do not Deserve a Place in Time.
I echo the sentiments of the above, after my VIP expires in a week I'll take a break from the game until the next mod, and if the pvp situation remains in the state it is now, I think I'll call it a day. Been a long time, but these days neverwinter seems to have become more of a chore, and less of a pleasure.
First of, why do you think premades died since solo queue was born? If premade PVP was so much fun it should be popular and would attract many player. But no, all go solo queue and premades died instead, so it obviously is not enjoyable at all. Every PVP focussed player left, except very few... TR´s mainly The era of premade PVP was not the brightest time in NWO PVP, it was the era of steamrolling teams, k/d-hunter and bug abusing pro player over random queue, knowing exactly how to benefit from bugged powers and synergies of classes until vomiting and preventing any fair competetion right from the start. In the end a lot of them left the game out of bordomness and disappointement about cryptics incompetence to handle bugs and balance, even though they changed their mind in the end, recognizing that near noone put a step into PVP any more, and steamrolling premade-teams were an at best "unhealthy" method to kill ingame fun for other participants in PVP. It took > 5 mods to convince most of them. Premades killed PVP for a great part of the NWO playerbase. Those "random guys" , who normally build the biggest part of participants in PVP all the time, left. And some went back the moment solo queue was born.
You make a lot of points here, the only one I want to address is the one I take the most issue with. I think players who were not involved in a lot of premades, or came after the time of premades misunderstand the timeline.
Premade PVP, in fact was the brightest time in NWO PVP imho. Premades died, not because the solo Q was "born". I understand how you came to this incorrect conclusion because the two happened very closely together. Here's actually what happened:
Guild boons mandated players no longer simply group up with like mates, but that if they wanted to continue to be serious about PVP and being BIS for playing in premades, they had to join or build a rank 20 guild. So small knit guilds of 5-10 players built solely around PVP found themselves having to merge with larger guilds or they simply left the game.
The SH also offered... PVP drains, and since this time a number of other pieces of gear began cropping up with extraordinarily annoying effects in PVP. Drains, stuns, piercing damage procced from gear, these things are loathsome to players who simply wanted to play their class and use it's mechanics rather than fighting someone's gear. The irony, of course, was that to play in premades, because of their innate competitiveness, BIS was the gold standard, so, in a way... gear was doubly involved in the demise of premades: the necessity of rank 10 boons, and the hatred of broken items in PVP.
The reason most premaders stopped doing premades was... a lack of other players to do them with. Premade PVPers left for a myriad of reasons: too much investment in SH, too many mods to fix broken stuff, too much time trying to get the matches they want, too many broken items/class abilities, etc, etc. It had nothing to do with the solo Q. As for the era of "steamrolling teams", that was a by product of lack of Premade Q. If they had introduced the premade Q and solo Q when we had first began asking for it (around mod 2-3 if I'm not mistaken, maybe sooner) it would have saved rando's the occasional steamroll and allowed premaders to do what they did without waiting 30 minutes to get the match they were looking for.
Often times those "steamrolls" were because 2 groups Q'd up and tried to sync for a match and got rando's instead. Thus... they try to get the match over quickly and move on to getting back in Q. I understand how this could be misunderstood if you weren't involved in it. However, I think some of these assumptions are a bit biased, perhaps because of running into those premaders and thinking badly of them for it "darn premader pug stomping, don't they have anything better to do?"... yes they did, but they weren't given the tools to do it. Sometimes they'd Q up looking to fight other guilds, because PVP was healthy enough you had a high likelihood of running into one. To be fair here, domi is a team sport, and it allows for groups to Q. Why would you expect otherwise? Pugs used to be the exception, not the rule. There were THAT many PVPers/PVP guild.
As for "bugged powers and synergies (nice word btw ". There is a lot packed into those few sentences. Firstly, you'd have to define what is bugged, as it seems a lot of players have different definitions of that. Secondarily, apparently this wasn't a "premade" issue so much as a NW PVP issue as you yourself said at the end of your post "PS: PVP is filled with hypocritical player, not even interested in a fair match. Those player drop their mask in dom as soon as they lose a match, beginning to cheat and abuse bugs+broken HAMSTER". I would agree that this is a huge issue in NW PVP. Partially because of the playerbase, however if the players weren't given the tools, this wouldn't be a discussion.
I also think you misunderstand what happened in terms of the "death" of PVP. Premades didn't kill NWO PVP, NWO PVP killed premades. I see this reversal of wording a lot.
As for competition, most serious PVPers have been asking for a vanilla/stripped down version of PVP. One where everyone is on as even footing as possible. This would generate more interest. The grind to be BIS to be PVP ready to fight anyone is long and arduous, the annoyance of broken PVE gear in PVP and classes that go unbalanced for mods, the feeling that PVP is the last thing looked at in terms of priority. These things are what premaders left over.
The reason premade PVP was so popular was because it was basically the end game for many mods. You'd grind out your boons, then parkour in PE while waiting for your premade matches or to pug into PVP. PVP is dynamic, so even though the map never changes (literally, in 15 mods) the game does depending on your opponents. Premades were the end game of end game so to speak. Synergizing with your team on coms playing against other equally gear/skilled opponents to get the most reward out of the competition. When you have a game built around a team (like 5 vs 5 domi) and there aren't premades... it's a bad sign. It means the competition is no longer rewarding/entertaining/worth the effort. Saying premades weren't good for PVP is like saying sports teams should all be pugs, or games shouldn't allow synchronized competition.
Lastly, I would add this, I wasn't really replying just to you over a small part of your overall discussion. I see this misunderstanding a lot, amongst PVEers, and PVPers who primarily pug or missed the Premade era. I wanted to clarify this for them, and in the off chance someone from the cryptic community notices it. I think it's important to know how you got where you are, before you can figure out how to get where you're going... and hopefully it will be towards less gear dependency and broken items in PVP.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Ok, you might see it that way. I pugged from mod 4 upwards and met enough premades that had no other intention than "stomping", normally the "less talented player", and in case they failed they started trashtalk, no need to glorify that attitude. Q'ing was like that: "50:50" to get a somhow balanced match, and that was the good time. The bad times looked like this: "Enter domination and get stomped, period.", facing premades made of DC-GF-OP-TR-xy, at maxed gear you could not achieve in 2 years, or passing buffs towards each other making any effort to play useless.
There also were those "healthy player", sure. But the "negative selection", you could meet in domination pretty much spoiled the experience for the rest of all player for a pretty solid period of time. The last ones stopped doing so the moment it was done with premade PVP, PVP was burried anyway. I call them "unhealthy player" without a clue how to PVP and without any intention to keep thing fair, abusing every small benefit or bug ingame, also "random-guys" involved, agreed. I´d attest some of them a mentality of a 3 year old kid that jumps on it´s toy until its´s broken, recognizing that it was a bad idea doing so afterwards Drains and SH were the last nails in that coffin. Only few asked for equalized PVP, and some started to think about it very late, most player feared to loose all those "benefits" they worked hard on. An understandable but in the long run selfdestructive attitude in my eyes. You can watch a similar behaviour in PVE. Some player argue, cry and rant, to stick with buffs or advantages, making their class godlike compared to other, simply to have an 100% "winexperience" for the price of the disadvantage of all others. In PVP this kind of attitude get´s amplified, so you meet scrubs with fotm-classes running every "broken HAMSTER" in the game to win, I guess console player can sing a song about it, same kind of humans that played once on PC I am sure.
As if those kind of player ever left this game? It´s not inside a premade, but it is the same attitude. Actually TR abuses Bloodbath in PVP, benefiting from proccing buffs x2 til x8, slaughtering other classes with ease that way. Do they stop? NO, you meet 100% of TR running that combo. SoD is the smallest problem actually, despite the fact that I witnessed a proc of 400k on a 16k OP/tank lately ... Some of those player with "Copy-paste" made builds may not know, what they actually benefit from, but I assure you the majority is aware of it. And the moment you meet those player with slotted drains and a coalhead or Manticore on top etc., you definitely know what to think of them- "Scum-Player" Behaviour can´t be teached after an age of 21 or above, some grow up in mind , some don´t.
Devs didn´t care and obviously never had the intention to save this part of the game from dying, they could have done it easily, but they decided to "just watch".
Ok, you might see it that way. I pugged from mod 4 upwards and met enough premades that had no other intention than "stomping", normally the "less talented player", and in case they failed they started trashtalk, no need to glorify that attitude. There also were those "healthy player", sure. But the "negative selection", you could meet in domination pretty much spoiled the experience for the rest of all player for a pretty solid period of time. Some stopped doing so the moment it was done with premade PVP, PVP was burried anyway. I call them "unhealthy player" without a clue how to PVP and without any intention to keep thing fair, abusing every small benefit or bug ingame, also "random-guys" involved, agreed. I´d attest some of them a mentality of a 3 year old kid that jumps on it´s toy until its´s broken, recognizing that it was a bad idea doing so afterwards Drains and SH were the last nails in that coffin. Only few asked for equalized PVP, and some started to think about it very late, most player feared to loose all those benefits they worked hard on. Anyway devs obviously never had the intention to save this part of the game from dying.
There are always negative people, in every game, in every corner of the earth. Competition has a tendency to magnify negativity as well because ego's are at stake. I have met players with bad attitudes in PVE who trash talk. This is always unfortunate, and I agree, should not be glorified.
PVP in this game is, and always was meant to be, a team competition. Pug groups have become the norm because other issues drove most competitive players away from the PVP arena. The meta is typically defined by the game, not the other way around.
I PVP'd since open beta. A proper premade is truly a great experience, imho it's the best that PVP has to offer in this game. However, something of note was, a pug team could win against a premade back then because of a few key things, and this is what I'd like the devs to take note of: Namely that most people played PVP and had some experience/skill because once you hit 70 you could PVP on even footing with some rank 8+ enchants and CN gear. There were no boons, no mounts, no insignias, no artifacts. This is the key to healthy PVP.
For a few mods you could still get away with it because there were only a few boons that mattered, but the farther we got from mod1, the more boons and gear was required to PVP until it became a pugstomp when PVPers did wind up against PUG groups. The more this became the case, the less fun PVP was, the more toxic it became (between pugs, PVPers, PVP guilds etc.), the fewer PVPers there were... etc. etc. The rest is detailed in my original bit.
If the devs would simply focus on decreasing the gear gap so that skill gap is all that remains, we could get back to fun competitive matches and, potentially, reinvigorate a healthy competitive PVP community imho.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
i remember having lots of fun with early nvo as a CW where CC had cooldowns and you had to make use of them, and dodging crucial ability felt more rewarding. becouse you knew this ability is on 15 mb 20s cooldown. I wish it was like the old days ;p
Separate PVP and PVE gear. Make it so PVE gear does not work in PVP and vice versa. You should be able to buy your first set of PVP gear with seals of the brave, gold or guild marks.
Now onto the discussion of class imbalance. TR are the strongest in both PVP and PVE ATM. That will eventually change over time, as change is something we all cannot avoid.
What I would like the devs to do is update the classes so that each ability functions one way in PVE and another way in PVP.
PVP has been unbalanced for a very long time in NWO with the TR leading the way and with the tanks classes being right there with them, though those change every now and than. Over time things will change but I find that most PVP players prefer to play a TR over other classes, so that could be a big factor why there are so many TRs.
Uh, yeah. Because archer HR has serious piercing damage apparantly. None of you guys have a clue about HRs do you.
My friend Valhalla (HR, First combat then archer) attempting to attack a Devo OP in dom, or do any kills, yesterday in Private Queue premades, he got mutilated. I'm a GF and in the total of 30 matches I got like 16 kills in total it was horrible. 0 kils our HR got. OP's heals are beyond broken in PvP. HR's are literally using Trapper in premades! We going back in time.
Ok, you might see it that way. I pugged from mod 4 upwards and met enough premades that had no other intention than "stomping", normally the "less talented player", and in case they failed they started trashtalk, no need to glorify that attitude. Q'ing was like that: "50:50" to get a somhow balanced match, and that was the good time. The bad times looked like this: "Enter domination and get stomped, period.", facing premades made of DC-GF-OP-TR-xy, at maxed gear you could not achieve in 2 years, or passing buffs towards each other making any effort to play useless.
There also were those "healthy player", sure. But the "negative selection", you could meet in domination pretty much spoiled the experience for the rest of all player for a pretty solid period of time. The last ones stopped doing so the moment it was done with premade PVP, PVP was burried anyway. I call them "unhealthy player" without a clue how to PVP and without any intention to keep thing fair, abusing every small benefit or bug ingame, also "random-guys" involved, agreed. I´d attest some of them a mentality of a 3 year old kid that jumps on it´s toy until its´s broken, recognizing that it was a bad idea doing so afterwards Drains and SH were the last nails in that coffin. Only few asked for equalized PVP, and some started to think about it very late, most player feared to loose all those "benefits" they worked hard on. An understandable but in the long run selfdestructive attitude in my eyes. You can watch a similar behaviour in PVE. Some player argue, cry and rant, to stick with buffs or advantages, making their class godlike compared to other, simply to have an 100% "winexperience" for the price of the disadvantage of all others. In PVP this kind of attitude get´s amplified, so you meet scrubs with fotm-classes running every "broken HAMSTER" in the game to win, I guess console player can sing a song about it, same kind of humans that played once on PC I am sure.
As if those kind of player ever left this game? It´s not inside a premade, but it is the same attitude. Actually TR abuses Bloodbath in PVP, benefiting from proccing buffs x2 til x8, slaughtering other classes with ease that way. Do they stop? NO, you meet 100% of TR running that combo. SoD is the smallest problem actually, despite the fact that I witnessed a proc of 400k on a 16k OP/tank lately ... Some of those player with "Copy-paste" made builds may not know, what they actually benefit from, but I assure you the majority is aware of it. And the moment you meet those player with slotted drains and a coalhead or Manticore on top etc., you definitely know what to think of them- "Scum-Player" Behaviour can´t be teached after an age of 21 or above, some grow up in mind , some don´t.
Devs didn´t care and obviously never had the intention to save this part of the game from dying, they could have done it easily, but they decided to "just watch".
premades werent stomping , we were searching for another premade so far u had to enter same que
Some might have forgotten about it, but it is hard to deny. There were also "punishing runs" from bigger PVP guild. Only intention was to catch those "toxic guys", stomping, wearing drains etc. in premades. Happened 100% , not that I ever said all did so, but a lot. It was very common. As said, you met premades 50:50 or more and a big bunch of them did not accept gg, let you cap or anything like that. Premades besiegeing homenodes, doing trashtalk, cheating etc., very popular from mod 4 to 8. I did not forget about it, it once was a big issue in PVP. Now it doesn´t matter any more. Go domination and start to bug/cheat other player these days on PC simply will only stop most of the rest from queuing at all. That´s what it looks like to me these days, many player did learn what that bad attitude leads to. PVP community is pretty small but the behaviour in general is less toxic.
^ yes alot of bad habbits also from the "pro´s" back then in the good old days....never forgiven, never forgotten...to counter this a bit the devs implemented (really shortsided) stuff like drains and weird rings like ambush/cowardice/etc up to the solo que like we have now... Synching the ques was also never a problem. For example I still remember the fun I had back in mod 5/6 joining naked premades...at that time I also was in a pvp guild and remember pretty well that we were informed in guild chat that a A-team from one of the top guilds is farming right now so not to que - they knew/know each other pretty well and organised their private matches really easy...farming pugs was a common hobby...
^ yes alot of bad habbits also from the "pro´s" back then in the good old days....never forgiven, never forgotten...to counter this a bit the devs implemented (really shortsided) stuff like drains and weird rings like ambush/cowardice/etc up to the solo que like we have now... Synching the ques was also never a problem. For example I still remember the fun I had back in mod 5/6 joining naked premades...at that time I also was in a pvp guild and remember pretty well that we were informed in guild chat that a A-team from one of the top guilds is farming right now so not to que - they knew/know each other pretty well and organised their private matches really easy...farming pugs was a common hobby...
thats actually disgusting, small HAMSTER syndrome lol
Comments
No doubt that the cc diminishing return system that the devs put in a few mods back is bad and will almost never kick in before you die, but mod14 removed the most annoying cc in pvp, so now cc really is not that bad if you are playing a tanky class, or a class that can cc them back (so not an archer). Cc is annoying, but there's no cc glitch/bug; just a flawed system.
Also, i haven't seen anyone else lose games on purpose other than the br kiddos, like i had said before, but they aren't even on page one n haven't played in well over a week. I watch my team carefully, and usually if someone is not playing, it's because they are getting farmed, most likely by a tr, or teams are not balanced and there's no point in trying.
Then something else, I have not figured out what probably the same thing, is knocking me prone whilst I am attacking players usually a TR again.
I watch players when I think something is up... throwing games can include sitting up the top of the map waiting to fight players and never ever going near a node. Some supposedly "top" players I have watched do this when they are on a team they do not like.... I could name 4 players on that screen I have witnessed doing this.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
Cowl+TR is redicules, sometimes you get stunned duiring Bloodbath, guess that´s the "pants" proccing... those items have to go and cryptic should feel ashame to make it last that long.
One class, only skills matter
Dead🔪bottom line is: you will get cc'd and die, or you will quit. Even though i'm not on pc, It's clear he has a good team everytime he plays, or the alternative is that there are no other good players on pc, which is understandable given there are much better mmos on pc in addition to the fact that neverwinter's pvp competition is as nonexistent as its developer support.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
Not Sincerely Exvalid
Premade PVP, in fact was the brightest time in NWO PVP imho. Premades died, not because the solo Q was "born". I understand how you came to this incorrect conclusion because the two happened very closely together. Here's actually what happened:
Guild boons mandated players no longer simply group up with like mates, but that if they wanted to continue to be serious about PVP and being BIS for playing in premades, they had to join or build a rank 20 guild. So small knit guilds of 5-10 players built solely around PVP found themselves having to merge with larger guilds or they simply left the game.
The SH also offered... PVP drains, and since this time a number of other pieces of gear began cropping up with extraordinarily annoying effects in PVP. Drains, stuns, piercing damage procced from gear, these things are loathsome to players who simply wanted to play their class and use it's mechanics rather than fighting someone's gear. The irony, of course, was that to play in premades, because of their innate competitiveness, BIS was the gold standard, so, in a way... gear was doubly involved in the demise of premades: the necessity of rank 10 boons, and the hatred of broken items in PVP.
The reason most premaders stopped doing premades was... a lack of other players to do them with. Premade PVPers left for a myriad of reasons: too much investment in SH, too many mods to fix broken stuff, too much time trying to get the matches they want, too many broken items/class abilities, etc, etc. It had nothing to do with the solo Q. As for the era of "steamrolling teams", that was a by product of lack of Premade Q. If they had introduced the premade Q and solo Q when we had first began asking for it (around mod 2-3 if I'm not mistaken, maybe sooner) it would have saved rando's the occasional steamroll and allowed premaders to do what they did without waiting 30 minutes to get the match they were looking for.
Often times those "steamrolls" were because 2 groups Q'd up and tried to sync for a match and got rando's instead. Thus... they try to get the match over quickly and move on to getting back in Q. I understand how this could be misunderstood if you weren't involved in it. However, I think some of these assumptions are a bit biased, perhaps because of running into those premaders and thinking badly of them for it "darn premader pug stomping, don't they have anything better to do?"... yes they did, but they weren't given the tools to do it. Sometimes they'd Q up looking to fight other guilds, because PVP was healthy enough you had a high likelihood of running into one. To be fair here, domi is a team sport, and it allows for groups to Q. Why would you expect otherwise? Pugs used to be the exception, not the rule. There were THAT many PVPers/PVP guild.
As for "bugged powers and synergies (nice word btw
I also think you misunderstand what happened in terms of the "death" of PVP. Premades didn't kill NWO PVP, NWO PVP killed premades. I see this reversal of wording a lot.
As for competition, most serious PVPers have been asking for a vanilla/stripped down version of PVP. One where everyone is on as even footing as possible. This would generate more interest. The grind to be BIS to be PVP ready to fight anyone is long and arduous, the annoyance of broken PVE gear in PVP and classes that go unbalanced for mods, the feeling that PVP is the last thing looked at in terms of priority. These things are what premaders left over.
The reason premade PVP was so popular was because it was basically the end game for many mods. You'd grind out your boons, then parkour in PE while waiting for your premade matches or to pug into PVP. PVP is dynamic, so even though the map never changes (literally, in 15 mods) the game does depending on your opponents. Premades were the end game of end game so to speak. Synergizing with your team on coms playing against other equally gear/skilled opponents to get the most reward out of the competition. When you have a game built around a team (like 5 vs 5 domi) and there aren't premades... it's a bad sign. It means the competition is no longer rewarding/entertaining/worth the effort. Saying premades weren't good for PVP is like saying sports teams should all be pugs, or games shouldn't allow synchronized competition.
Lastly, I would add this, I wasn't really replying just to you over a small part of your overall discussion. I see this misunderstanding a lot, amongst PVEers, and PVPers who primarily pug or missed the Premade era. I wanted to clarify this for them, and in the off chance someone from the cryptic community notices it. I think it's important to know how you got where you are, before you can figure out how to get where you're going... and hopefully it will be towards less gear dependency and broken items in PVP.
I pugged from mod 4 upwards and met enough premades that had no other intention than "stomping", normally the "less talented player", and in case they failed they started trashtalk, no need to glorify that attitude.
Q'ing was like that: "50:50" to get a somhow balanced match, and that was the good time.
The bad times looked like this: "Enter domination and get stomped, period.", facing premades made of DC-GF-OP-TR-xy, at maxed gear you could not achieve in 2 years, or passing buffs towards each other making any effort to play useless.
There also were those "healthy player", sure. But the "negative selection", you could meet in domination pretty much spoiled the experience for the rest of all player for a pretty solid period of time.
The last ones stopped doing so the moment it was done with premade PVP, PVP was burried anyway. I call them "unhealthy player" without a clue how to PVP and without any intention to keep thing fair, abusing every small benefit or bug ingame, also "random-guys" involved, agreed.
I´d attest some of them a mentality of a 3 year old kid that jumps on it´s toy until its´s broken, recognizing that it was a bad idea doing so afterwards
Drains and SH were the last nails in that coffin.
Only few asked for equalized PVP, and some started to think about it very late, most player feared to loose all those "benefits" they worked hard on. An understandable but in the long run selfdestructive attitude in my eyes.
You can watch a similar behaviour in PVE. Some player argue, cry and rant, to stick with buffs or advantages, making their class godlike compared to other, simply to have an 100% "winexperience" for the price of the disadvantage of all others.
In PVP this kind of attitude get´s amplified, so you meet scrubs with fotm-classes running every "broken HAMSTER" in the game to win, I guess console player can sing a song about it, same kind of humans that played once on PC I am sure.
As if those kind of player ever left this game? It´s not inside a premade, but it is the same attitude.
Actually TR abuses Bloodbath in PVP, benefiting from proccing buffs x2 til x8, slaughtering other classes with ease that way.
Do they stop? NO, you meet 100% of TR running that combo. SoD is the smallest problem actually, despite the fact that I witnessed a proc of 400k on a 16k OP/tank lately ...
Some of those player with "Copy-paste" made builds may not know, what they actually benefit from, but I assure you the majority is aware of it. And the moment you meet those player with slotted drains and a coalhead or Manticore on top etc., you definitely know what to think of them- "Scum-Player"
Behaviour can´t be teached after an age of 21 or above, some grow up in mind , some don´t.
Devs didn´t care and obviously never had the intention to save this part of the game from dying, they could have done it easily, but they decided to "just watch".
PVP in this game is, and always was meant to be, a team competition. Pug groups have become the norm because other issues drove most competitive players away from the PVP arena. The meta is typically defined by the game, not the other way around.
I PVP'd since open beta. A proper premade is truly a great experience, imho it's the best that PVP has to offer in this game. However, something of note was, a pug team could win against a premade back then because of a few key things, and this is what I'd like the devs to take note of:
Namely that most people played PVP and had some experience/skill because once you hit 70 you could PVP on even footing with some rank 8+ enchants and CN gear. There were no boons, no mounts, no insignias, no artifacts. This is the key to healthy PVP.
For a few mods you could still get away with it because there were only a few boons that mattered, but the farther we got from mod1, the more boons and gear was required to PVP until it became a pugstomp when PVPers did wind up against PUG groups. The more this became the case, the less fun PVP was, the more toxic it became (between pugs, PVPers, PVP guilds etc.), the fewer PVPers there were... etc. etc. The rest is detailed in my original bit.
If the devs would simply focus on decreasing the gear gap so that skill gap is all that remains, we could get back to fun competitive matches and, potentially, reinvigorate a healthy competitive PVP community imho.
Now onto the discussion of class imbalance. TR are the strongest in both PVP and PVE ATM. That will eventually change over time, as change is something we all cannot avoid.
What I would like the devs to do is update the classes so that each ability functions one way in PVE and another way in PVP.
PVP has been unbalanced for a very long time in NWO with the TR leading the way and with the tanks classes being right there with them, though those change every now and than. Over time things will change but I find that most PVP players prefer to play a TR over other classes, so that could be a big factor why there are so many TRs.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
There were also "punishing runs" from bigger PVP guild. Only intention was to catch those "toxic guys", stomping, wearing drains etc. in premades.
Happened 100% , not that I ever said all did so, but a lot. It was very common.
As said, you met premades 50:50 or more and a big bunch of them did not accept gg, let you cap or anything like that.
Premades besiegeing homenodes, doing trashtalk, cheating etc., very popular from mod 4 to 8.
I did not forget about it, it once was a big issue in PVP. Now it doesn´t matter any more.
Go domination and start to bug/cheat other player these days on PC simply will only stop most of the rest from queuing at all.
That´s what it looks like to me these days, many player did learn what that bad attitude leads to. PVP community is pretty small but the behaviour in general is less toxic.
Synching the ques was also never a problem. For example I still remember the fun I had back in mod 5/6 joining naked premades...at that time I also was in a pvp guild and remember pretty well that we were informed in guild chat that a A-team from one of the top guilds is farming right now so not to que - they knew/know each other pretty well and organised their private matches really easy...farming pugs was a common hobby...