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Is this the future of Neverwinter PVP ?
pakas
Member Posts: 16 Arc User
Never were the PVP ranking was so unbalanced.
Hope the developers will think how to make PVP more equal and fun for everyone.
We all thought that things will change this mod because of the changes to piercing damage but apparently things only got even less equal.
What are your thoughts ?
Hope the developers will think how to make PVP more equal and fun for everyone.
We all thought that things will change this mod because of the changes to piercing damage but apparently things only got even less equal.
What are your thoughts ?
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Comments
I only play my CW and whilst I think the TR has had a good run the last few Mods in PVP, this screenshot does not really reflect the current state of TR's in Mod 14 as much as it does The Mane of the Manticore.
95% of these players still abuse it. Let's break down this list.....
assassiano is in the #4 spot on this list, yet here:
without his Mane of the Manticore he cannot burst down my CW and this duel was in Mod 13!
Tuppy is in #8 spot on this list, yet here:
could not kill my CW without the Mane of the Manticore.
General Silver is in #3 spot on this list, yet here:
@ the 2:15 mark, could not burst down my CW. Also if you look at his YT videos, all he does now is hide behind his shield and wait for his daily to proc the Main of the Manticore then rinse and repeat.
Besides Darwin, this is a great screenshot of the toxic, Drain/Mane abusers on the PS4 lol.
My thoughts,
Mod 14 PvP is better than Mod 13. From my perspective as a CW the hunt gear gives classes like the CW access to stats we never could get before like insane defense, deflect and HP which is great. I'm sure other classes benefit from this also.
The only thing still ruining PvP is broken gear/items and the players that use them.
This is equally the Dev's and players fault IMO.
I thought that as well when mod 14 dropped in PC, that the changes which were made were going to be good, but no, when you have only a few classes dominate everything, then you know it's broken.
By the way, yes the CW can benefit from defense, deflect, HP, but when you have classes that don't need that (due to their class mechanics) then they can stack EVERYTHING else. That puts the classes which need to stack it at a disadvantage.
I play a CW as well, and I am the only CW currently on page 1 of the Leaderboard on PC:
8 out of the Top 10 players are TR; and of the top 20, they constitute 60% of the players.
So no, it isn't just broken gear/items ...
I also have a middling TR, with most of the boons, a bunch of rank 7s and moderate enchants, meh gear and mounts etc. which I swap to for a change of pace, no cowl, no mane. My TR can troll a node near indefinitely, kill most people except the super tanky types, and generally not die ever. Serious easy mode. There is no comparison, TRs have a huge, not to mention unfair, advantage over every other class save GFs. No ifs, no buts.
Since mod 5 nothing really changed in PVP, except that fact that most hardcore player/TR´s left out of bordomness on PC and victim N°1 is GWF.
The moment one of those good eprforming TR´s join a match in dom, you know in seconds how screwed this PVP really is.
About 90% of those player you see with their TR in PVP are player that desperately sucked on other classes I am 100% sure.
It´s foty in PVP and PVE(striker), strongest dps class and stronget class on PVP by far.
Maybe those dudes on playstation miss some skill, can´t tell, nice videos by sure. On the other hand CW is not victim N°1 for a TR I´d say.
a tr with that k/d would be believable, but not a gf. The gf's shield literally doesn't even stop bloodbath a good amount of the time (you'll take full damage)
It's not just the gear.
I thought that as well when mod 14 dropped in PC, that the changes which were made were going to be good, but no, when you have only a few classes dominate everything, then you know it's broken.
By the way, yes the CW can benefit from defense, deflect, HP, but when you have classes that don't need that (due to their class mechanics) then they can stack EVERYTHING else. That puts the classes which need to stack it at a disadvantage.
I play a CW as well, and I am the only CW currently on page 1 of the Leaderboard on PC:
8 out of the Top 10 players are TR; and of the top 20, they constitute 60% of the players.
So no, it isn't just broken gear/items ...
On PC you can see peoples gear right, like anytime? On PS4 we can only see their gear if they are on our team or if they pm you.
From this PC screen shot what percentage of these players use Mane, Sandy, Curse Bringer, Drains Etc? My guess would be most, however I'm really interested to know if you could check.
Ok, so it is not just gear, however I still believe it is a massive part of it perhaps bigger than class balance as a priority. If I can take the CW and compete 1v1 with TR's and GF's without this gear yet struggle if they use it, that says something and I'm sure there are others with different classes that could do the same.
Take a rainbow 5v5 for example same classes on each side, all with the same gear score/skill level but with players that know their class really well and build their characters for specific roles. Will the GF and TR on both sides always end up with the best K/D ratios or their efforts play a bigger part in the match?
Before answering that.......
What would be the outcome be if one team was wearing all the broken stuff above and the other was not?
We all have an opinion and trust me I am over all of 1v1's I do with Sly every Mod to rebuild our CWs for the current meta and all of the AD we have to waste to do this, but I would hate to see resources dedicated to nerfing 2 classes before other things.
IMO we need broken gear (when I say gear I mean everything such as drains) removed > some way of balancing teams and class compositions > Class tweaks/balance.
He also plays an HR, SW, CW and OP, which range from pages 2-10 on the leaderboard, and knows about most effective loops/playstyles of many classes, but generally likes to play the FoTM/Y classes. He mainly does PvP almost exclusively, and is a moderator of one of the PvP channels on PC.
Regarding the items in PvP which may be deemed to be 'broken':
- AP/Stamina Drains: Only a handful on PC abuse this. On page 1, only two use it, and both of them are TRs. The most well known abuser is a SW, but he is currently on page 2. So I'd say only 10% of players or less use it. They are often ostracised in the PC gaming community.
- Cowl of the Dead: This use to multiproc, especially with some DC and SW dailies. It has been fixed this mod. Right now, I only know of 1 TR that uses it, to prone classes that dodge in order for BB and SoD to have maximum effect. I'd say about < 5% of players use this.
- Mane of the Manticore: This is used fairly heavily in the current meta. It used to multiproc, but now no longer does so is less of a problem. It can be mitigated however. It usually is most problematic on HRs and other burst damage classes, if it can proc during their 'burst' rotation. I'd say maybe 50-60% of players use it. It isn't what usually kills you though: I'd say SoD, or GW or Aimed Shot usually do it.
- Ring of the Curse Bringer: Fixed in the latest mod. No longer works in PvP.
- Sandy's Assault Pants: Annoying. Usually only bothers me when a class can burst me down during those 3 seconds when I cannot evade them (e.g. GF or TR). It isn't usually on my radar so I don't pay attention to this item.
So out of the broken items you mention, only the Mane seems to be the only one which is problematic for PC players. I do not use it on my CW, as I would rather better stats.Drains can be countered with wards, and Drains are not often used anyway.
So even if all players have access to these broken items, it does not explain why TRs are the top 12/20 in the leaderboard, followed by GFs which are 4/20. I still personally think the team with the more experienced TRs will win the match.
I never said ranking meant who’s best but it’s about who plays a lot and get lucky also with draws etc and I think rankings are ****ed up and buggy anyway.
assasinso isn’t one of the best TR on PS4 I bet better TRs will beat you and I can arrange for a match if you’d like. Tuppy or General Silver aren’t the best GFs also, try fighting Mace or Tony. Some classes have better match ups against others but that wasn’t the point, the point is pvp at the moment isn’t balanced. You’re an experienced pvper and should know this for a while. I thought mod 14 gonna change some things but apparently not. So I don’t get your videos beside of some kind of bragging.
I’m not a solo q fan I prefer premade but sometimes I solo q just to pass time. Lately it seems like there’s always 2 TRs on each team and whichever team has the better TRs will most likely win.
Now don’t get me wrong, No single TR or any single char can kill me by themselves, need at least 2 or 3 people to kill me and I like some of the changed that we’re made as well. However, that’s not the point of this discussion.
I think it will be great if characters are more equal and there is more diversity in pvp it will just make it more fun.
About the mane I think it’s not an item that should work in pvp same for the ring of the curse bringer(which is fixed again) and other silly items.
To be fair I am looking at class balance from a 1v1 perspective and not 5v5 or node contesting and if I were I would agree with some changes to class balance.
In this case, I would like to see these 2 classes mobility changed dramatically.
Edit: Forgot to say, that the gear results you mentioned are interesting. I do think you underplay the Mane (although it no longer multi procs) especially when used by a GF and TR. This one item is all the extra damage needed to burst me from 75% of my health (which I can recover quite reasonably from insignia procs) in a perfect rotation to flat out killing me.
And you want 1v1 balance because why? Current PvP is not 1v1 at all, but rather 5v5 or 10v10. If a class can neutralise 3v1, then that isn't balanced.
Overall I am not saying there is no balance issues just that the broken gear needs to be addressed first, then the team/IL balance and see where that leaves us. Then adjust classes.
That person is good at his classes. He understands them well. I saw one time he had 4 different characters in the top 20. The GF can be very good against a TR. A good GF vs a good TR will fight for a very long time until somebody makes a mistake (usually needs to be 2 or 3 mistakes in a row).
I have played PvP on Xbox and PC. I can tell you the GFs and SWs (specifically those two classes) are wayyy more powerful (when played correctly) on PC, than Xbox. There is really only one reason for that. The "Crtl" button is a usable lock (similar to an aim bot on Xbox) in PC, Neverwinter. You can bind it to any key you want. By using that button correctly, you are basically "aim-botting" your enemies the entire match. This works super well with the GFs shield and the SWs mobility/CC abilities.
I am not saying that this is broken ^ or needs to be changed. I am just pointing out that it is a HUGE difference between Xbox and PC. Also, I am pretty sure that most Xbox players are unaware of this (PC only) feature (or at least unaware of how seriously good it is for those classes). I know for a fact that this particular GF learned his "Crtl" usage from Peren Darksbane (SW), who is probably the best user of that feature (in PvP atm).
I don’t think only changing the mane is the issue. It will help for sure but there is still balance to made.
My friend hit a 660k Shadow of Demise the other day. Tony with his 13k TR alt hit for 400k+...
I Donno why you say our team ruin pvp for everyone ? Cause we are too strong ? We used to have competition that beat us and we improved and got better. I wish there was more solid premade competition but solo q kinda broke that - not our team.
None of our players are trash talkers or haters or campers, at least not while under Avengers tag. We always respect and looking forward to new opponents.
And I doubt you ever asked mace or tony for 1v1 and they refused. It’s not like them to do that, unless you have some personal issues with them. They are hardly standing in IWP (I myself am never there), that place is very toxic. Not that I care but it’s not my style...
I know you’re a good pvper and one of the best CW so you need to go against one of the best TRs or GFs to really check. Tuppy get 3 shot by Mace, with all the respect and General Silver is more of a tank GF not a DPS. If you’ll do more matches in solo q you’ll get what I’m saying about the TRs. Assasins isn’t strong compared to the best TRs try facing the guys that do really a lot of damage like NINJA (Avengers) or NeoEizen.
Besides like I said it can be also about match ups, I never played CW but maybe it’s easier for you guys cause of the push to handle that. You don’t need to look just at your class but the bigger picture. No TR can kill me yet I still see how overpowered it is compared to other classes.
PS. I am wonder- why any changes in this game are taking soooo much time like few months to fix even game breaking things.
Also, most steamroll matches on xbox just lead to the enemy campfiring straight away, and I'm left with only a few kills. So if you're going to average 10+kills a game and almost never die as a gf, you gotta be working some sort magic, or like i said... playing straight scrubs. I know that there are less players on PC generally, so that may be the issue. Also, could be the time of day they play, as i know there are some on xbox who only play at like 5am EST, when q times are abysmal and all of the players in the match are scrubs.
now it work great how it is suppose to be , if u can carry your low gear party and if u can rotate and make the match win its a jump but k/d ratio or any of other these HAMSTER doesnt count.
i took yesterday by 20 game first slot lol , only because i rotate better then any of them and cap the node.
about class balance or any other things before u talk , i belive u guyz need to make 5v5 with a mirror rainbow teams with a same skill base ppl then u would understand what is broken or not. with solo que u guyz cant understand anyyyyyything %100 guarantee.
about the gear yes i guess really ppl shouldnt use pve gear in pvp or pvp gear need to give u stat which u will ignore pve gear.
if u want to boost pvp i told it long long ago also , u have to give reward by win match to ppl, inorder to make them farm pvp
also about solo que and private que , solo que is a place for testing your diffirent encounters drains items dps"s blabla.
somehow cryptic need to support 5m teams to que in pvp. like imagine every guild has their A team and they challange the LB of 5m and get amazing rewards
If premade PVP was so much fun it should be popular and would attract many player.
But no, all go solo queue and premades died instead, so it obviously is not enjoyable at all.
Every PVP focussed player left, except very few... TR´s mainly
The era of premade PVP was not the brightest time in NWO PVP, it was the era of steamrolling teams, k/d-hunter and bug abusing pro player over random queue, knowing exactly how to benefit from bugged powers and synergies of classes until vomiting and preventing any fair competetion right from the start.
In the end a lot of them left the game out of bordomness and disappointement about cryptics incompetence to handle bugs and balance, even though they changed their mind in the end, recognizing that near noone put a step into PVP any more, and steamrolling premade-teams were an at best "unhealthy" method to kill ingame fun for other participants in PVP. It took > 5 mods to convince most of them.
Premades killed PVP for a great part of the NWO playerbase. Those "random guys" , who normally build the biggest part of participants in PVP all the time, left. And some went back the moment solo queue was born.
In case of TR, premade PVP will show nothing else than better performing player rotating in seconds and avoiding to face a TR 1 vs 1, you will see classes like OP, DC compensationg other classes weakness against that class, since there is no class that can handle a good TR 1 vs 1 execpt that GF..maybe, simply waiting for the one error or running a ring of vision
I guess a good OP is not to beat by a TR on his own also, by sure desperately trying to lifting his arms in the air all the time vs that invisble enemy, and a faithfull DC ...maybe also, from wich that paladin has to be considered to be stronger, dishing out considerable damage on top of strong dps buffs, in case he could target anything.
But Hunter, SW, GWF, CW , from wich i think SW and CW are the best options vs that TR, stand no chance imo.
And about rotating.. you can rotate a lot but you also have to fight that node and stay alive vs that rotating TR.
You do not lead on the board by simply rotating better or faster than anyone else, you lead that board by rotating better PLUS killing that other class or scrub, trying to rotate same as you do, faster than anything else in this game
Vs a skilled TR my warlock stands no chance on that node and I can´t protect or hold that node very long, same as it is impossible to kill him, same as I get onecycled by other player as Saber, several dps GF´s etc., it´s not TR exclusively tbh. but it is the class that does in it easier than others
All I can do is run to the other node or die in the end ... and that´s a disadvatage by sure.
Admitted that a "superfast" warlock can support a team by rotating in seconds same as GWF can and a glitchlock can turn a match and a worlock is not that weak as it once was but not the leading class by sure (hint, leaderboard)...but this game got fast mounts also. Maybe PVP should be played without mounts to at least reward a class to be "superfast".
So TR = broken in terms of survivability (on top of a deflectseverity 75%) same as some damage skills/feats (partly bugged), and that´s nothing new in this game since mod 5 and nothing to be proven, since all know it allready.
A well build TR at stacking power/recovery/deflect is a completely broken class, spamming dailies (nothing new...since mod5), if he runs a broken helm on top that procs every 5 seconds and maybe a ring of vision he is a completely broken class with a troll in front of the screen.
At deflectseverity 75%+pot->85% a TR takes only 1/3 of the damage another class would take by a deflect on top of the best defensive ingame tools (stealth+dodge+ITC), nothing new, we know it allready.
There is no need to be convinced about anything else we did not recognize since ages, maybe apart from some hidden or unknown bugs, every class runs and abuses, avoiding to lift their "secrets" out of fear to get nerfed.
Same as everyone knows that GF is overpowered in terms of burst vs other classes compared to his tankyness, gear ingame that has to be considered to be broken or overpowered, OP and DC sharing too powerfull buffs and are essential for a team to win (esp. OP) ... nothing new and nothing to be proven imo.
If anyone feels like pointing at bugs he simply should do so like others allready did, no need for a scientific laboratory.
My honest view on PVP is pretty simple. Gear down everything flaten out that gear-gap to give new player a chance, PVP should be no highend part of the game, it should be accessible for a wider playerbase from the start.
Ban PVE boons, drains, bugged gear and boni, adress some remaining bugs and balance classes exclusivly for PVP, based on what is left.
Keep it like that and you don´t have to redo your work every mod, again and again, implement some maps, rewards, PVP gear and handle the upcoming botinvasion the moment rewards are accessible.
Hyopthetically, if you nerf the TR down to abyss the next class will take his place in PVP. Again more GF's by sure and GWF will revive also, having pretty good burst also, or dps locks, no matter the gap will be filled, but maybe the matches are more balance by that.
PS: PVP is filled with hypocritical player, not even interested in a fair match. Those player drop their mask in dom as soon as they lose a match, beginning to cheat and abuse bugs+broken HAMSTER. Some of them run streaming channel and pretend to be fair.
So a healthy PVP should be free from those player and the ability to cheat if they feal so, simple as that.
I witnessed this bahaviour for almost 4 years, it has nothing to do with PVP, only prevents other player from taking part and is a childish egocentric attitude.
Pretty much sums it up without leaving out much to add.
Would be nice to see some comment from the devs on a post like this instead of a thread about non important things like Paladin hitting air.....
> First of, why do you think premades died since solo queue was born?
> If premade PVP was so much fun it should be popular and would attract many player.
> But no, all go solo queue and premades died instead, so it obviously is not enjoyable at all.
> Every PVP focussed player left, except very few... TR´s mainly
> The era of premade PVP was not the brightest time in NWO PVP, it was the era of steamrolling teams, k/d-hunter and bug abusing pro player over random queue, knowing exactly how to benefit from bugged powers and synergies of classes until vomiting and preventing any fair competetion right from the start.
> In the end a lot of them left the game out of bordomness and disappointement about cryptics incompetence to handle bugs and balance, even though they changed their mind in the end, recognizing that near noone put a step into PVP any more, and steamrolling premade-teams were an at best "unhealthy" method to kill ingame fun for other participants in PVP. It took > 5 mods to convince most of them.
> Premades killed PVP for a great part of the NWO playerbase. Those "random guys" , who normally build the biggest part of participants in PVP all the time, left. And some went back the moment solo queue was born.
>
> In case of TR, premade PVP will show nothing else than better performing player rotating in seconds and avoiding to face a TR 1 vs 1, you will see classes like OP, DC compensationg other classes weakness against that class, since there is no class that can handle a good TR 1 vs 1 execpt that GF..maybe, simply waiting for the one error or running a ring of vision
> I guess a good OP is not to beat by a TR on his own also, by sure desperately trying to lifting his arms in the air all the time vs that invisble enemy, and a faithfull DC ...maybe also, from wich that paladin has to be considered to be stronger, dishing out considerable damage on top of strong dps buffs, in case he could target anything.
> But Hunter, SW, GWF, CW , from wich i think SW and CW are the best options vs that TR, stand no chance imo.
>
> And about rotating.. you can rotate a lot but you also have to fight that node and stay alive vs that rotating TR.
> You do not lead on the board by simply rotating better or faster than anyone else, you lead that board by rotating better PLUS killing that other class or scrub, trying to rotate same as you do, faster than anything else in this game
> Vs a skilled TR my warlock stands no chance on that node and I can´t protect or hold that node very long, same as it is impossible to kill him, same as I get onecycled by other player as Saber, several dps GF´s etc., it´s not TR exclusively tbh. but it is the class that does in it easier than others
> All I can do is run to the other node or die in the end ... and that´s a disadvatage by sure.
> Admitted that a "superfast" warlock can support a team by rotating in seconds same as GWF can and a glitchlock can turn a match and a worlock is not that weak as it once was but not the leading class by sure (hint, leaderboard)...but this game got fast mounts also. Maybe PVP should be played without mounts to at least reward a class to be "superfast".
>
> So TR = broken in terms of survivability (on top of a deflectseverity 75%) same as some damage skills/feats (partly bugged), and that´s nothing new in this game since mod 5 and nothing to be proven, since all know it allready.
> A well build TR at stacking power/recovery/deflect is a completely broken class, spamming dailies (nothing new...since mod5), if he runs a broken helm on top that procs every 5 seconds and maybe a ring of vision he is a completely broken class with a troll in front of the screen.
> At deflectseverity 75%+pot->85% a TR takes only 1/3 of the damage another class would take by a deflect on top of the best defensive ingame tools (stealth+dodge+ITC), nothing new, we know it allready.
> There is no need to be convinced about anything else we did not recognize since ages, maybe apart from some hidden or unknown bugs, every class runs and abuses, avoiding to lift their "secrets" out of fear to get nerfed.
> Same as everyone knows that GF is overpowered in terms of burst vs other classes compared to his tankyness, gear ingame that has to be considered to be broken or overpowered, OP and DC sharing too powerfull buffs and are essential for a team to win (esp. OP) ... nothing new and nothing to be proven imo.
>
> If anyone feels like pointing at bugs he simply should do so like others allready did, no need for a scientific laboratory.
> My honest view on PVP is pretty simple. Gear down everything flaten out that gear-gap to give new player a chance, PVP should be no highend part of the game, it should be accessible for a wider playerbase from the start.
> Ban PVE boons, drains, bugged gear and boni, adress some remaining bugs and balance classes exclusivly for PVP, based on what is left.
> Keep it like that and you don´t have to redo your work every mod, again and again, implement some maps, rewards, PVP gear and handle the upcoming botinvasion the moment rewards are accessible.
> Hyopthetically, if you nerf the TR down to abyss the next class will take his place in PVP. Again more GF's by sure and GWF will revive also, having pretty good burst also, or dps locks, no matter the gap will be filled, but maybe the matches are more balance by that.
>
> PS: PVP is filled with hypocritical player, not even interested in a fair match. Those player drop their mask in dom as soon as they lose a match, beginning to cheat and abuse bugs+broken <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Some of them run streaming channel and pretend to be fair.
> So a healthy PVP should be free from those player and the ability to cheat if they feal so, simple as that.
> I witnessed this bahaviour for almost 4 years, it has nothing to do with PVP, only prevents other player from taking part and is a childish egocentric attitude.
CW have no chance? Depends on how you build and stack the cw. I have zero issue with high burst gfs or trs. I've faced nearly half the trs on page 1 in the posted pic. Have had no issue. Some trs will just run away when low on hp like aizen. Or others will que synch, like....nvm lol.
Anyway the assumption people make about classes are comical at times. Every class can be lethal if you know how to gear and build it correctly.
Edit... here is a screenshot of P1 of the X1 Leaderboard https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/wdj40/screenshot/10400764
Some of these players are glitching the game something rotten to get wins and kills... even then every single one of them have more deaths already than some of those PC players in far far FAR less games.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
In general on PC there are very, very few experieced TR´s/PVP verterans that step into PVP these days, but you know when you met them.
Can´t tell what is different on xbox and especially on your CW , that you got no issues with skilled TR´s.
The TR´s I talk of got arround 50k power, 16-20k recovery, low arp/crit, maxed builds. Those procs from SoD are up to 180k+ i recognized so far.
There are near no good videos about PVP on platforms to watch to get an impression about how PVP looks like on xbox/PS4 and the PVP on PC is near dead, matches imbalanced and the level is maybe not that high I´d say. So hard to judge or compare situations. Just not that popular these days and the game in a hole dropped of. Noone feels like investing time into presenting his PVP build of his class, even though I think there are a lot of pretty good ones, or crazy ones like those "Kamikaze Hunter" near oneshooting you with some skills. I know how some k/d ratio have to be interrpeted on some SW and GWF. Some of those player run the very moment they tend to die with hyperspeed to the next pot, consequently all the time in every situation, some use ring of inpentrablabla and use the small window of invulnerability to flee and fill up their HP, no clue how this is done on GF tbh.
The lazy oned without that ring or the nerves to run all day like a chicken just die ->me
There's really no way around it now with weapons being 520 iL and power/arpen/recovery being as high as they are now. We can pretend like gfs are gods and can't be killed if built optimally (and they are much tankier than most other classes), but the only way to survive a 3-4 man jump involving a reasonably competent tr is to be invisible and/or not be targetable. And most times all it takes is one other decently built player to cc you and the tr or any other class with burst damage will have his way. Other than the gf who runs kv and guarded assault, there's no one else there glitching or doing anything fishy now that the br boys seem to have given up on boosting for the time being.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe