test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options

FPS Drop issue.

13

Comments

  • Options
    pedro2908926pedro2908926 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    Its been a month since i've been able to play Neverwinter, i've quited the game since mod 14 was released cuz its unplayable, ALL I WANT IS TO KNOW IF CRYPTIC REALLY CHANGED THE REQUIREMENTS OR THEY ARE TRYING TO FIX THOSE 'POSSIBLE BUGS'... i dont think that is an "isolated" problem since i am not the only one having it, so do you guys have any news about those performances issues? please?
  • Options
    swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    strathkin said:


    Your comment that you see better performance in the 32 bit application running on a 64 bit OS; while Windows uses WOW64 to emulate 32 bit OS I find stunning. I mean I believe you entirely. Still you'd almost always expect to get better performance on a 64 bit architecture; using 64 bit software to more effectively use resources.

    The only efficiencies that 64 bit code gives over 32 bit code is more general purpose registers and being able to address more memory. 32 bit code is usually smaller and smaller is almost always faster. (Back when the '386 was new, if you could keep your code and data within 64K, 16 bit code was a lot faster than 32 bit code.) It could be that because the 32 bit client has a 2 gig memory limit, it manages memory more efficiently, while the 64 bit client, with no such requirement occasionally does something to touch the swap file on some systems, which would be a performance killer. (It doesn't have to be the game being a memory hog. Between video memory, Skype, Chrome, and various drivers and utilities, on an 8 gig system, I have a lot less than 8 gig of RAM available.)
  • Options
    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Yes, very True. :)

    I denoted that earlier saying 64 bit mostly came about to handle the limitation of 4 GB of Ram (the theoretical maximum) - though in practice it's recognized at 3.6 GB. You comment about the 32 bit code being smaller is also true, in fact anyone can easily confirm that, as the /x86 is 45.2 MB in size while /x64 is 58.1 MB in size.

    The majority of the game size is actually textures (piggs/hogg) that both versions equally utilize.
    ╘ 22.3 GB in /LIVE; while /piggs are 22 GB.

    That's mostly where the 64 bit application should see improved performance.

    In Mod 13 did you notice similar performance with the 32 &/or 64 bit versions; or did you only start running 32 bit after Mod 14 because of performance? Still I hope they continue to improve their 64 bit client to regain some if not most of the performance related to FPS we had in MOD 13.

    --
    One other ODD thing I've noticed since MOD 14. Often after launching the game I in fact see TWO not ONE - NEVERWINTER icon's loaded in the taskbar. Yet if I hover over the one on the right it remains, yet hover over the one on the left, it then quickly disappears? Unrelated but something I never noticed before.
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • Options
    swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    I only went with the 32 bit client after mod 14 because of the problems. I'm curious to try Neoroph's solution, but probably won't get a chance until this weekend.
  • Options
    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    neoroph said:

    I had (until an hour ago) the same (or a similar?) issue as the OP, at least I had the same symptoms.
    The problem started with the new Ravenloft content patch and no released fix has changed a thing. After a short period of time, the game lagged and stalled terribly, I had to restart it.

    But I have just found something, that seems to work (at least on my system, but there is a chance that this works for the OP as well if his problem is based on the same bug). In my system the lags seem to be a memory leak and it looks like it is related with texture memory, more specificly textures of avatars, since the problem increases a lot faster in regions with more people (like Protector's Enclave). The texture memory doesn't seem to be freed anymore but accumulates over time - and when my old 9600GT's 1GB is full, RAM starts swapping wildly and that leads to massive stalls. And then I had to restart the game. (I used /showmem 1 to watch the memory related problem).

    I have found a list of commands online and I now use the /tex_memory_allowed command and set it to 512MB (at least at the moment: /tex_memory_allowed 536870912 - it's in bytes), this seems to force the system to free the memory. I have tried min values too and I could watch the continuous unloading of textures. The lags and freezes have stopped for now. Downside is, loading and unloading seems to cost a little fps, but I have rather a constant slightly lower fps rate, than freezes and stalls.

    Still experimenting with the values, I think it's possible to use even more of the 1GB for textures.

    Edit: Clarified the text and additionally:
    I have successfully used 640MB (*1024*1024 = 671088640) for a few hours now (using 756MB was unsuccessfull though, it lagged pretty soon).
    The command worked fine, no slowdown even in Protector's Enclave. I have to enter that command each time though when I start the game, don't know yet if there is a command line parameter.

    I also wondered if a possibility "might be" memory leak related to video card memory since MOD 14. So like swamarian stated, over the next few days or weekend I'll TRY a few things you've been investigating as well. While the game can works a little longer, my Video Card has 4 GB of Ram.

    Still something worthwhile to spending time investigating! Hopefully with time & patience, as others update their findings in time, may help a lot in the weeks ahead--good job...

    @kreatyve :)
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • Options
    neorophneoroph Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    strathkin said:


    I also wondered if a possibility "might be" memory leak related to video card memory since MOD 14.

    Of course it is possible that the real problem is an entirely different one (like the limitation of the texture memory suddenly frees up space for something else that keeps growing), but for me it is a viable workaround for now. Second day now, it is still working fine.

    And maybe it helps locating the bug since one of the most difficult tasks in programming is to find a bug that you cannot test. As soon as you have something to force a symptom, it is a lot easier to force the bug/exception to show itself.
  • Options
    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    neoroph said:

    strathkin said:


    I also wondered if a possibility "might be" memory leak related to video card memory since MOD 14.

    Of course it is possible that the real problem is an entirely different one (like the limitation of the texture memory suddenly frees up space for something else that keeps growing), but for me it is a viable workaround for now. Second day now, it is still working fine.

    And maybe it helps locating the bug since one of the most difficult tasks in programming is to find a bug that you cannot test. As soon as you have something to force a symptom, it is a lot easier to force the bug/exception to show itself.
    Absolutely! I was speaking in very broad terms when I first made that statement; and even then I was cautious about doing so. Simply because it could be a number of closely related phenomenon; or by changes something as you have done, may perhaps at least be a clue to the real cause.

    Still I think most have done a good job describing what/when/where we can (sometimes) see it occurring - thought it does seem to effect others more severely or at least far more often. So it be real nice if this could be corrected, cause there are other graphic's improvements I've actually noticed too. But the FPS issue at times or slight -pauses- while rendering (some) visual effects (VFX) is rather odd. :/
  • Options
    sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    CPU test: 4 cores vs 3 cores vs 2 cores

    On 4 cores, frame rate is highest and always smooth
    On 3 cores, frame rate is slightly less (than 4 cores) but still smooth.
    On 2 cores, frame rate is much less (than 4 cores) and there is lots of micro-stutter.

    This test does not perfectly simulate a 2 core cpu because windows and everything else is running on the other cores.
    On an actual 2 core/thread cpu, there would be lower frame rate and even more stuttering, and maybe freezing too.

    youtube.com/watch?v=JuRwH7WyziQ

    Conclusion:
    Module 14 runs fine on modern hardware with 3 (or more) cpu cores and enough ram/vram,
    but runs poorly on a 2 core cpu.

    For comparison (pre-module 14):
    Back in 2016, I made these two videos to show that Neverwinter could run (smoothly) on a fast 2 core cpu.

    youtube.com/watch?v=pB4-8esZaoc
    youtube.com/watch?v=vbhbBxPcEz0
    Post edited by sangrine on
  • Options
    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    I'd suggest everyone confirm these settings as well:

    Reduced File Streaming is set to OFF | Provided you have >4GB of available Ram or ideally 8 GB.
    Reduce CPU/GPU usage is OFF
    Framerate stabilizer is ON
    Auto-stabilize framerate is ON
    Multi-core rendering is ON | Regardless if you have Dual or Quad Core in your Chip.
    Limit Frame Rate is 60 or higher if your monitor supports that.
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • Options
    pedro2908926pedro2908926 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    strathkin said:

    I'd suggest everyone confirm these settings as well:

    Reduced File Streaming is set to OFF | Provided you have >4GB of available Ram or ideally 8 GB.
    Reduce CPU/GPU usage is OFF
    Framerate stabilizer is ON
    Auto-stabilize framerate is ON
    Multi-core rendering is ON | Regardless if you have Dual or Quad Core in your Chip.
    Limit Frame Rate is 60 or higher if your monitor supports that.

    all checked... i am done with this game by now, tired of waste my time here in this forum, theres nothing we can do... they already have all the information that they need to "investigate" those problems, if Cryptic wanted to fix those performances issues they could have done it weeks ago, i dont think they will do something like Blade n Soul that have an optmization button for "poor PC".
  • Options
    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    edited August 2018

    strathkin said:

    I'd suggest everyone confirm these settings as well:

    Reduced File Streaming is set to OFF | Provided you have >4GB of available Ram or ideally 8 GB.
    Reduce CPU/GPU usage is OFF
    Framerate stabilizer is ON
    Auto-stabilize framerate is ON
    Multi-core rendering is ON | Regardless if you have Dual or Quad Core in your Chip.
    Limit Frame Rate is 60 or higher if your monitor supports that.

    all checked... i am done with this game by now, tired of waste my time here in this forum, theres nothing we can do... they already have all the information that they need to "investigate" those problems, if Cryptic wanted to fix those performances issues they could have done it weeks ago, i dont think they will do something like Blade n Soul that have an optmization button for "poor PC".
    Well sadly realize sometimes it can just take several weeks or longer to sometimes narrow down the cause or issue. Most things usually within 1-3 months they can sometimes identify or mostly resolve things.

    Perhaps one last thing to TRY is reducing the /renderScale (option 1 sets full - .xx set % lower)
    /renderScale 1 *is usually default*
    /renderScale .75
    /renderScale .5

    If you ever need to also RESET all values you can do so using the UI Options or RESET to DEFAULTS; then adjusting any of those identified above or others you may customize. You can use any value following /renderScale in Chat box for values ranging from: .5 .6 .7 .75 .8 .9 (being 50-90%) or even 1 at 100% or higher like 2 (mostly used for screenshots) as playing 2 or higher will cause performance issues for low end graphic's cards / GPU's.

    Also @neoroph on July 31st commented something else about something he found that help resolved his issues, so perhaps read his note I've copied below. Just TRY to remain positive & hopeful - keep your chin up high, or try to enjoy a little downtime to play a few other games if none of the other suggestion helped.
    neoroph said:

    I had (until an hour ago) the same (or a similar?) issue as the OP, at least I had the same symptoms.
    The problem started with the new Ravenloft content patch and no released fix has changed a thing. After a short period of time, the game lagged and stalled terribly, I had to restart it.

    But I have just found something, that seems to work (at least on my system, but there is a chance that this works for the OP as well if his problem is based on the same bug). In my system the lags seem to be a memory leak and it looks like it is related with texture memory, more specificly textures of avatars, since the problem increases a lot faster in regions with more people (like Protector's Enclave). The texture memory doesn't seem to be freed anymore but accumulates over time - and when my old 9600GT's 1GB is full, RAM starts swapping wildly and that leads to massive stalls. And then I had to restart the game. (I used /showmem 1 to watch the memory related problem).

    I have found a list of commands online and I now use the /tex_memory_allowed command and set it to 512MB (at least at the moment: /tex_memory_allowed 536870912 - it's in bytes), this seems to force the system to free the memory. I have tried min values too and I could watch the continuous unloading of textures. The lags and freezes have stopped for now. Downside is, loading and unloading seems to cost a little fps, but I have rather a constant slightly lower fps rate, than freezes and stalls.

    Still experimenting with the values, I think it's possible to use even more of the 1GB for textures.

    Edit: Clarified the text and additionally:
    I have successfully used 640MB (*1024*1024 = 671088640) for a few hours now (using 756MB was unsuccessfull though, it lagged pretty soon).
    The command worked fine, no slowdown even in Protector's Enclave. I have to enter that command each time though when I start the game, don't know yet if there is a command line parameter.

    The one other thing I was going to suggest to him above was to try"

    "/bind F12 tex_memory_allowed 671088640" in chat to Bind that to F12 key
    (representing Graphic Card Memory allocation of 640MB *1024*1024) for textures as he described.

    ▪ Full list of /command codes can be found here - including the use of /bind function with examples:
    https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Console_command
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • Options
    pedro2908926pedro2908926 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    strathkin said:

    strathkin said:

    I'd suggest everyone confirm these settings as well:

    Reduced File Streaming is set to OFF | Provided you have >4GB of available Ram or ideally 8 GB.
    Reduce CPU/GPU usage is OFF
    Framerate stabilizer is ON
    Auto-stabilize framerate is ON
    Multi-core rendering is ON | Regardless if you have Dual or Quad Core in your Chip.
    Limit Frame Rate is 60 or higher if your monitor supports that.

    all checked... i am done with this game by now, tired of waste my time here in this forum, theres nothing we can do... they already have all the information that they need to "investigate" those problems, if Cryptic wanted to fix those performances issues they could have done it weeks ago, i dont think they will do something like Blade n Soul that have an optmization button for "poor PC".
    Well sadly realize sometimes it can just take several weeks or longer to sometimes narrow down the cause or issue. Most things usually within 1-3 months they can sometimes identify or mostly resolve things.

    Perhaps one last thing to TRY is reducing the /renderScale (option 1 sets full - .xx set % lower)
    /renderScale 1 *is usually default*
    /renderScale .75
    /renderScale .5

    If you ever need to also RESET all values you can do so using the UI Options or RESET to DEFAULTS; then adjusting any of those identified above or others you may customize. You can use any value following /renderScale in Chat box for values ranging from: .5 .6 .7 .75 .8 .9 (being 50-90%) or even 1 at 100% or higher like 2 (mostly used for screenshots) as playing 2 or higher will cause performance issues for low end graphic's cards / GPU's.

    Also neoroph on July 31st commented something else about something he found that help resolved his issues so perhaps read his note I've copied below. Just TRY to remain positive & hopeful - keep your chin up high, or try to enjoy a little downtime to play a few other games if none of the other suggestion helped.
    neoroph said:

    I had (until an hour ago) the same (or a similar?) issue as the OP, at least I had the same symptoms.
    The problem started with the new Ravenloft content patch and no released fix has changed a thing. After a short period of time, the game lagged and stalled terribly, I had to restart it.

    But I have just found something, that seems to work (at least on my system, but there is a chance that this works for the OP as well if his problem is based on the same bug). In my system the lags seem to be a memory leak and it looks like it is related with texture memory, more specificly textures of avatars, since the problem increases a lot faster in regions with more people (like Protector's Enclave). The texture memory doesn't seem to be freed anymore but accumulates over time - and when my old 9600GT's 1GB is full, RAM starts swapping wildly and that leads to massive stalls. And then I had to restart the game. (I used /showmem 1 to watch the memory related problem).

    I have found a list of commands online and I now use the /tex_memory_allowed command and set it to 512MB (at least at the moment: /tex_memory_allowed 536870912 - it's in bytes), this seems to force the system to free the memory. I have tried min values too and I could watch the continuous unloading of textures. The lags and freezes have stopped for now. Downside is, loading and unloading seems to cost a little fps, but I have rather a constant slightly lower fps rate, than freezes and stalls.

    Still experimenting with the values, I think it's possible to use even more of the 1GB for textures.

    Edit: Clarified the text and additionally:
    I have successfully used 640MB (*1024*1024 = 671088640) for a few hours now (using 756MB was unsuccessfull though, it lagged pretty soon).
    The command worked fine, no slowdown even in Protector's Enclave. I have to enter that command each time though when I start the game, don't know yet if there is a command line parameter.

    The one other thing I was going to suggest to him above was to try"

    "/bind F12 tex_memory_allowed 671088640" in chat to Bind that to F12 key
    (representing Graphic Card Memory allocation of 640MB *1024*1024) for textures as he described.

    ▪ Full list of /command codes can be found here - including the use of /bind function with examples:
    https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Console_command
    noone of those commands changed anything for me, my FPS still drop a lot when i am casting skills or with multiple players on the screen, but thanks for trying to help brother.
  • Options
    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Yea as I've talked to various people over the last week or two... and as I've enquired discovering a lot more people encountering this issue. I'm actually often just surprised at how many notice issues, yet so few actually take the time to report them on the forums, and I suspect the same is likely true also with filling out game BUG reports. I'm finding a few more talking about it on external websites. For some it's only present a smaller percentage of the time but others have it far more often like you.

    I only hope moving to 3 Mod's a year, isn't going to increase bugs, as more content is pushed faster. But I believe developer's will rise to the challenge that has been made, and will adapt while improving quality of life & more regular content. o:)

    While like you I can sometimes see the FPS sometimes dropping to <30; in Mod 13 like most I regularly always saw 60. In fact in the 5+ years I've played Star Trek Online or the 4+ I've played Neverwinter I've always consistently seen 60 up until recently.

    Hopefully this at least has the attention of one DEV. I've also PINGED two or three Cryptic employee's, I'm sure this is at least on the Radar. I mean 90% of the game performance is the Video Card (GPU) not the CPU; and some with high end GPU's are noticing it, even if perhaps a little less frequently.

    Anyways I'll TRY to remain HOPEFUL for everyone, maybe we'll hear something back, I know they've been busy trying to resolve the sound cutting out...

    @nitocris83
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • Options
    sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    strathkin said:

    While like you I can sometimes see the FPS sometimes dropping to <30; in Mod 13 like most I regularly always saw 60. In fact in the 5+ years I've played Star Trek Online or the 4+ I've played Neverwinter I've always consistently seen 60 up until recently.</p>

    That's odd. In the 5 years I've played Neverwinter, I have frequently seen fps less than 60.
    And I have videos to prove it.

    youtu.be/pAIDkhhxYjY?t=369
    youtube.com/watch?v=BNmdELfd0bQ
    youtube.com/watch?v=dd7I7y1afIE
    youtube.com/watch?v=DVV3gyyxONM
    youtube.com/watch?v=DoPFWnR8W34
    youtu.be/npKKmtaBr5c?t=124
    youtu.be/wfLTyKq67Tk?t=539
  • Options
    swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    I set texture memory to 512 meg, and it didn't help. Everything else was set as suggested. I'm still getting better performance with the 32 bit client, so I'll stick with that for now. The only other change I made was set renderscale to .72 at 1280x1024. Before it had been 1 at 1024x768 (which messed with my video card, because the intel drivers don't like switching resolution).
  • Options
    arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,093 Arc User
    when i log in on my char first time after launching game, my encounter powers take too long to load, while the rest of ui is already loaded, anyone else having this problem.
  • Options
    neorophneoroph Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    strathkin said:


    The one other thing I was going to suggest to him above was to try"

    "/bind F12 tex_memory_allowed 671088640" in chat to Bind that to F12 key
    (representing Graphic Card Memory allocation of 640MB *1024*1024) for textures as he described.

    Good idea; I'll add that!

    @pedro2908926 Sorry to hear that it didn't help with your problem. It was worth a try though!
  • Options
    strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
    arcanjo86 said:

    when i log in on my char first time after launching game, my encounter powers take too long to load, while the rest of ui is already loaded, anyone else having this problem.

    No but I did notice yesterday for the first time ever sometimes while walking / running I seemed to be stuck in pause mode before eventually running again while on a stronghold map...
  • Options
    nigoshinobinigoshinobi Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    neoroph said:

    But I have just found something, that seems to work (at least on my system, but there is a chance that this works for the OP as well if his problem is based on the same bug). In my system the lags seem to be a memory leak and it looks like it is related with texture memory, more specificly textures of avatars, since the problem increases a lot faster in regions with more people (like Protector's Enclave). The texture memory doesn't seem to be freed anymore but accumulates over time - and when my old 9600GT's 1GB is full, RAM starts swapping wildly and that leads to massive stalls. And then I had to restart the game. (I used /showmem 1 to watch the memory related problem).

    I have found a list of commands online and I now use the /tex_memory_allowed command and set it to 512MB (at least at the moment: /tex_memory_allowed 536870912 - it's in bytes), this seems to force the system to free the memory. I have tried min values too and I could watch the continuous unloading of textures. The lags and freezes have stopped for now. Downside is, loading and unloading seems to cost a little fps, but I have rather a constant slightly lower fps rate, than freezes and stalls.

    i've tried to limit my texture memory like you said, but somehow my memory usage still increasing overtime. At first i thought that the leak was from the texture because i got the error crash message about "Direct3D error out of memory, create Texture failed", but since the RAM usage still increasing, maybe there are more leaks somewhere else. The modification you said certainly helps prolong the time i can run the game though.
  • Options
    neorophneoroph Member Posts: 9 Arc User


    i've tried to limit my texture memory like you said, but somehow my memory usage still increasing overtime. At first i thought that the leak was from the texture because i got the error crash message about "Direct3D error out of memory, create Texture failed", but since the RAM usage still increasing, maybe there are more leaks somewhere else. The modification you said certainly helps prolong the time i can run the game though.

    Yes, as I have stated a little later, it is entirely possible that this isn't *THE* leak but just frees up enough space for the real leak not to reach the limit when it occurs (or to occur later in your case). There aren't that many options to play around with and the symptoms aren't well mesurable without a complete test environment.

  • Options
    pedro2908926pedro2908926 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    i'm glad to see that this thread is alive yet, let's hope Cryptic see the importance of this topic soon enough.
  • Options
    yashmak#1787 yashmak Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Glad I found you guys, I thought I was the only one experiencing huge problems now after a few years playing with no problems at all. To me it seems like a memory leaking problem. Neverwinter client has always suffered of memory leaking (pretty much as every windows software), you can experience this if you don't shut down your computer but instead you make it sleep and keep your client open. It always used to see performance drops because of leaking, but it usually took a few days because the leaking was not huge. Now, a few weeks ago I mean, the leaking started to be huge. Performance is good when the client starts, then it starts leaking fast. It might be because of avatars as someone said, but I even tried opening the client, entering the game with 1 character, immedialy log off to the change character screen and do nothing else, just using windows keeping the client like that. It sucks memory and resources, and when I put the computer in a sleep state and wake it up the game cannot be played anymore because it has a huge lag.

    I have enough memory (8 GB and nothing else running) and a very decent CPU but to me that's clearly not an hardware problem but a bug somewhere in the client. Again, it even might be the constant patching problem that doesn't help, but the bug is obvious to me.
  • Options
    muratttimurattti Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 417 Arc User
    there is no optimization in this event, no 4k monitor 1080p display card fps in places
Sign In or Register to comment.