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[MOD14][TR] Shadow of Demise bug
c1k4ml3kc3
Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
Not sure what makes it, but I've seen bosses in Hunts being killed instantaneously with this buggy exploity thing.
Note the time and note the last hit that killed the boss for two phrases.
Anyone think this is a bug? Happens with a lot of TRs.
Additional pics from other TRs
Anyone know if this is WAI?
Note the time and note the last hit that killed the boss for two phrases.
Anyone think this is a bug? Happens with a lot of TRs.
Additional pics from other TRs
Anyone know if this is WAI?
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Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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She Looked Lvl 18
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Furthermore, I'm one of the people who actually called for TR buffs many times by now, however the math behind this is rather obscure and one shouldn't be so quick to explain it as a WAI when certain bugs and/or exploits might arise. How does one achieve such a damage calculation in a controlled environment? Random damage spikes are just that - random, untill actually explained.
Now, you say that it is WAI. Can you, please, for the sake of the topic and everyone else, find a specific explanation where it is said that such damage spike is, in fact, WAI? To me it is illogical that a spell can suddenly hit for that much more damage thus making 70% of entire damage calculation for the run into a single random shadow of demise proc that may or may not happen.
The problem is when it activates without the countdown to 6. There are instances where it just does damage even if you only use at-will that do no more than 200K altogether in the manner of 6 sec. It appears that it is making multiplicative damage buff that goes into the negative. On a seriously debuffed enemy it's an insta-kill and I do not think that DEVS want that sort of dungeon killing to occur.
It is actually a solid BOSS KILLING technique, but it's a bit too much imho.
[15:39] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Lashing Blade deals 159427 (147625) Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
Shadowborn seems to not show in combat log since the patch.
35% of that lashing blade is 55,799
[15:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Shadow of Demise deals 25826 (23914) Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[15:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Shadow of Demise deals 25826 (23914) Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[15:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Shadow of Demise deals 25109 (23914) Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[15:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Shadow of Demise deals 25109 (23914) Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[15:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Shadow of Demise deals 25109 (23914) Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[15:39] [Combat (Self)] Your Shadow of Demise deals 256654 Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
So..let's go:
(159,427 + 55,799 + 25,826x2 + 25109x3 ) x 0.75 =>
342,205 x 0.75 = 256,653,75.
It's working as intended.
What you see as 8mil in the 6th tick is the usual final SoD hit which is 75% of everything done in those 6 seconds, DoT included.
The only weird thing is that they based it on mitigated damage but they did it on purpose.
Something is amiss.
Mod13 SoD was based on pre-mitigated damage and devs bolded the patch notes part that now it is based on mitigated damage.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1240403/ravenloft-the-patch-so-far-last-updated-june-1
They have few posts like this where they explain that SoD is now based on mitigated damage.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1240402/ravenloft-preview-patch-notes-nw-100-20180529a-0
No, you're just using a silver-line method to gain advantage in the only fashion you can muster in order to actually be useful. Using an oversight on top of an oversight with complete vanity and self conceit. The most vitriolic players out there, for sure!
By supporting the recent changes you're undeniably putting a nail on the TR coffin in terms of adaptability and playability. Please, support the actual promised TR buffs and changes instead of "One spell to rule them all" tactics. Some changes which are better suited to the longtime play-style of TRs which also accompany decent uses of the Weapon enchantments. No, I do not believe that a TR should be useful only if an army of Support is behind them. That is a ridiculous change.
I agree with buffing all TR spells a bit, but with the actual assistance and communication with the veteran TR players who do not focus solely on the PvP. PvP is just one small part of the game which most people simply do not care about. PvE classes shouldn't suffer because of the PvP system. When I called for TR buffs focusing on boss-killing I wasn't thinking about buffing up one feat/spell only. A rework is a rework.
If this is WAI I sincerely think it's shortsighted on the DEVs part, however it simply shows the potency of the (de)buff values.
In combination to the TRs who can already use dailies to gain double or even triple amounts of the base power, the randomness of the Shadow of Demise (although I'm sure it can be mastered with a proper team) is the absolute monster.
No, you can't see it's full potency on dolls. The buffs it receives are multiplicative which is stated long ago that it's a thing of the past exactly due to the reasons of insta-killing bosses.
Furthermore there's a history of spells going crazy when new things get introduced. I'm baffled by the margin of people wanting this to be WAI. I can't fathom that such people actually care for the balance in the longer run in terms of the class changes.
I do not care if this gets fixed or remains the same, however. I do play with TR friends all the time and I respect TR players who do not focus solely on PvP aspect of the game. However, the insta-boss killing is a thing now and it works solidly. It's quite exploity but if that's how things are going to be, then fine.
There is also the double mitigation/buffing: 1) of powers which calculates into the SoD proc, and 2) the SoD proc itself. While it is working as programmed, I am not completely sure that this is what is intended i.e. "where did the boss go?" one rotation insta-kills. Unless the developers intended one-rotation boss kills in the first place.
If powers can be programmed differently to work in PvE and in PvP (e.g. stun rings, enchantments, cleric powers e.g. geas, chains of blazing light etc), then I do not know what is stopping them from being able to work SoD differently too between PvP/PvE. Having primarly exclusive PvE players attack PvP players (and vice versa) for 'ruining their game' by alerting devs when powers are working against the spirit of the game is counterproductive to being able to balance the game environment and classes.
As a tr i do agree that it's a bit over the top and it's CALLING for a nerf.
Let's just hope the devs don't nerf rogue into the ground and make it worse than before, as before the changes i used to get replies like "sorry no tr" half the time i would want to join a group.
It is based on mitigated damage on purpose to solve the complaints from the PvP side but in PvE SoD cannot be based on mitigated and remain Piercing, it was never designed to be like that. It was able to be based on mitigated damage back then when Piercing didnt benefit from debuffs. With that change it has to be based on pre-mitigated damage and then we are back to having a problem in PvP.
It was suggested to be toned down first day it come out on preview, TRs who asked for buffs never wanted something like this. DoT part was just a fine addition, there was no need to buff final hit to 75%. When it came out in preview it was suggested to be based on pre-mitigated damage and for it to be changed to Physical damage. Problem in PvP would have been solved and PvE wouldnt suffer from it.
While it isnt an ideal solution, regarding the other two trees, it is the fastest one they can do with the least amount of work.
The way works now the shadow of demise was working at start of module 12 for few days shadow of demise double dip.
Anyway, as for vitriol, @c1k4ml3kc3, you seem to be the most vitriolic poster on this thread. If you are gonna start a nerf thread, call TRs "self conceited", seeking to "gain advantage in the only fashion you can muster in order to actually be useful", and be full of "complete vanity", you might not want to call others "vitriolic" for the sake of not sounding like a complete hypocrit.
"I do not care if this gets fixed or remains the same" - clearly you do otherwise you wouldn't be here saying what you are saying.
"It's quite exploity"- It isn't an exploit or a bug used to gain advantage. The devs programmed it this way, were explained, in detail, the results of the changes, were suggested a way they could keep a buff without it being nearly as powerful, and then they made the changes anyway. That means it is, perhaps, not the best choice, but clearly WAI. They could always change it, but it's not like buglocks, or being able to reenter combat with a boss after you died, or messing up a boss with geas, or any of the ACTUAL buggy interactions. It performs exactly as described, and works out mathematically.
Your continued calling it a "bug" or "exploit" shows exactly how much you DO care, and how big of a chip on your shoulder you have about this. The vitriol is almost all on your side, and if you'd stop and read @blur#5900 's post, you'd realize that we're not as opposed (and all of the other names you've thrown at us) as you think, and not half "the most vitriolic players out there", as you seem to want to believe.
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
Moderator edited out political comment.
I lost count on how many times HUGE bugs been reported on preview only to hit live and some (if it effects the income of cryptic) are corrected in matters of hours/days and some not until the next mod hits.
A good example was also Tr that ran around one shotting every single dwagon when Tiamat mod came. It lasted a week or 2 but was reported month ahead on preview.
Cw was the same when their daily went haiwire etc etc. Tenebrous enchantment was supposed to be corrected and was broken utterly and stayed so for 2 years.
The list is very long indeed so saying because something is reported and when not corrected it should be WAI is hardly a solid argument.
IF ANY CLASS/ITEM one shot bosses like is happening now with Tr SOD it is not WAI that is kind of selfexplanatory and to state that it would implicate that all DPS classes in this game should be able to ONE SHOT bosses the same way as it a part of the game to be able to do so.
Let us take a step back and think of this COULD be a part of the game to gather a bunch of people for a rather long hard boss fight only to have some class that is able to one shot it just after a few seconds BYPASSING THE HOLE FIGHT.....
If you argue that it is the case because it has been reported to the devs I find it hard to continue any serious conversation about the subject.
Note:
Minor bosses like orcus in tong etc is one thing but Baby boss in cradle .....
It is important to distinguish something that is a true bug, vs something they change that might not be too wise. This is clearly the latter.
She Looked Lvl 18
Here is my Blog
In fact no class should one-rotation kill any boss. Yeah, yeah, "HAMSTER calls for nurfs bwa bwab wa"
Why, because I actually care for the game?
It is something we are looking into.
This was an issue when the Piercing change happened during mod12 i think and it was solved by making it based on pre-mitigated damage. That created super strong SoD in PvP.
Only way i see to stop it from double dipping is changing it back to pre-mitigated based damage but it has to be changed to Physical damage so it can get mitigated by defenses in PvP, if it remains Piercing its back to old problem for PvP.
Pre-mitigated based SoD doesnt represent problem for PvE and change to Physical damage doesnt affect PvE either and both help for PvP, imo.
SoD wouldn't be piercing properly, since it would still be subject to enemy defenses during the damage window, with the final "piercing" hit reflecting RI vs. Defenses during the damage window but without double-dipping on buffs and debuffs.
Perhaps that is not technically feasible in this game engine...
It need to be either based on pre-mitigated and not piercing.
Or based on mitigated and piercing (not debuffed, nor 25% reduced)
Both of the above will result in exactly the same damage and what should be the correct way.. And this what was suggested when the current iteration went to preview.
Yep, needs to be restored to the original lol. Everything else tried is a greater evil.
FWIW, pre-mitigated and not piercing results in weird dodging in PVP (dodges don't work during window b/c pre-mitigated, but you need to time a dodge for the final hit...) so sub-optimal.
Mitigated and piercing (not double-dipped, debuffed, or lvl-diff reduced) is the way to go. And then tune the damage % as needed.
Edit:
18:07:01:22:43:55.4::XXXX,P[###@### XXXX@XXXX],,*,Withers's Control Station,C[2487 M12_Tomb_Boss_Withers_Station],Shadow of Demise,Pn.2cnzli,Physical,Kill,2.18431e+08,8.20496e+07
That's that's a 82 mill base SoD hit bumped to 218 mill with debuffs. This was a good group, but nowhere near BiS (most 16k). Certainly feels "oops where did the boss go"
We had good buffs, good timing, and everyone had non-potato internet. Yet, they couldn't even do a simple one phase with this "broken" SoD. They only hit for a 300 mil SoD each and got killed shortly thereafter by all the FEATURES involved in the push and pull, like getting grabbed by the hand and red circles that are there on purpose to test peoples' reflexes.
Therefore, TR is underpowered, please buff TR to deal more damage so I can finally have my baby onephase with this weak class, rather than relying on the excessively broken Damnation SW and Archer HR.