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BtS vs FF



  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    First off, why would you use Exaltation empowered over BtS or FF?

    *cough* no reason. o:)

    Second, Sunburst cool down is almost half as long as Exaltation. I get two Sunburst off vs 1 Exaltation and the difference is that with Sunburst I get between 9.6-12.8% AP regen when Exaltation would only provide 8% base.

    If you want to try and prove it with maffs down to the decimal points, you should probably do it correctly. It is not half the cooldown, it is 60% of the cooldown, which would only be 8-10% AP gain on average per the same time spent with exaltation. Is this 0.1% (base) AP gain per second really worth not having a 12% damage buff on your DPS? Additionally, each time you cast anointed army, you reduce your cooldowns by 4-8 seconds depending on the situation, so if every rotation contains an anointed army, which it probably should, the cooldowns don't even exist for these powers, so what does the cooldown even matter?

    Also, if you have gift of haste feat and use Sunburst in Divinity mode you increase your AP gain due to it providing a HoT.

    You have trouble landing your divine glows? Divine glow gives gift of haste as well, and It's not like gift of haste stacks.

    As for chains, I use that in T9 for the stun to keep the enemies from charming my group, which makes the run faster.

    Fun fact... chains of blazing light is a root not a stun, so it won't stop yuan-ti from charming your allies.

    Did you consider cool downs and how that can impact AP regen? I did and I also considered not only AP regen but also the positive impact of using Chain vs. another encounter has on mobs that can stun the group; if those adds are stunned, even for a second, the groups I run with can typically kill them.

    Yes, and neither the AP gain, or your fake stun can compete with a 12% damage buff. Not in any situation. If you say you need that AP gain to maintain your anointed army, which makes it its own damage buff, there is an entirely different issue at hand. That 12% damage buff on the primary damage dealer will pretty much always outperform sunburst and chains of blazing light even if you have more than one damage dealer in your group.

    I know how to play my DC and I use Exaltation when there is 1 DPS and run with only 1 DPS; otherwise I run my standard build.

    So, you know how to play your DC. That's an interesting comment considering you thought chains of blazing light was a stun.

    Regardless of what encounter is used, if it fits and works within the play style of the player, I honestly don't care what is used.

    Fitting a play style is fine. Using whatever you want is fine. But if you advise others to use a specific encounter, you had better be ready with some type of logical reasoning behind your choice because everyone who knows the optimal encounter choice will be here to tell you that you are wrong.

    First, yes I did make a mistake on the term stun, what I meant is it immobilize the target. That said, I tested our Chains and it does stop them from charming. When I did not use chains they did charm the group.

    Second, you are right that Exaltation is better than Chains and Sunburst given its buff to the target.

    My question to you, does PC have the ability to macro the encounter so you can always hit the target you want with Exaltation? If so, it is easier on PC to manage targeting the right player to buff. On console we get to use the aiming system that is absolutely horrible and garbage. When the correct target gets the buff it works great. Talked with other DC's and some forgo Exaltation for other encounters because we can buff our companion on console and yes I tested and it does buff the companion. So, if the DC on console is unlucky in his or her aim, the buff from Exaltation is wasted.

    During the two runs I did I counted the number of AA I used and I got more AA off with Sunburst vs. Exaltation. I got 2 more AA on the first two bosses and 3 more on the last boss. On just the adds I got the same number when using Chains vs. Exaltation.

    Run time for the two t9, about the same, less than a minute difference.

    I'm agreeing that Exaltation is the better encounter. Given what I have tested, going forward I will use Exaltation on 1st and 2nd boss in t9 and swap to Sunburst for the added CC immunity that a few extra AA offer for the last boss in T9.
  • michela123michela123 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    This thread is about FF and BtS animation speed. These comments have nothing to do with the thread, they're just off-topic and flaming.
  • designedbyrng#4319 designedbyrng Member Posts: 102 Arc User

    This thread is about FF and BtS animation speed. These comments have nothing to do with the thread, they're just off-topic and flaming.

    It relates to the "why not use both?" question that came up to contrast your original statement.

  • nerological#9262 nerological Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    Amen @Michela! I've been telling people this over and over again, and forever have been all but ignored. FFS DCs. Just get used to the cast time already and use the better power.

    Don't get me started on people demanding Exalt when I'm solo DCing or when the DO refuses to take BtS.
  • anesadinganesading Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    Lol I've met these DOs that refuse to take BTS. I had to test empowered ff then using exalt right after a couple times and it does still empower exalt too.
  • chaosity#1482 chaosity Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    Playing a DC since the start on PS4. Always reading tooltips carefully and not just blindly taking a spec from somewhere on the internet. Have a AC and DO spec i play on and doing end game dugeons. This is the rotation i use:
    -AC (full healing / buff healing):
    blessing of battle, 3x divinity DG, emp BTS, BoH & DG
    -DO (DPS / buff):
    On trash: Lance of Faith, 3x divinity chains, emp chains, DG & FF
    On bosses: Lance of Faith, 3x divinity FF, emp FF, BTS & PoD

    FF casts faster then BTS and is a damage spell so therefore i rather use it in DO. BTS casts slower and especially if you use 3x divinity and then empowered you lose some time and damage, in AC i use the 3x divinity DG for the buffing on the group (15% dmg) and then the emp BTS. Seems like i get the most buffing out of that. In endgame dungeons i mostly run as AC.

    talking about animation speed. PoD is even worse then BTS. I understand why people rather take FF then BTS because of this, though i still think FF is the better option for a DO DC to use (see above). Hope this helps other DC's.
  • midental#5256 midental Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    DO use BTS and PoD and DG and AC use DG FF + Ex. Michela made an accurate study about timing and buff.....
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,488 Arc User
    "Always reading tooltips carefully "

    Testing has time and again shown that the tooltips are very often inaccurate. While there are a lot of inaccuracies on the internet, a build based on empirical data (testing) is by far the way to go.

    The reason DO uses BtS is because they have more freedom to maintain its uptime, as opposed to AC which must prioritize the uptime of Anointed Army. Since BtS is the bigger buff, it goes to the DC with a better chance to maintain it. This has all been covered before, btw.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • elmeister#2511 elmeister Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    > @midental#5256 said:
    > DO use BTS and PoD and DG and AC use DG FF + Ex. Michela made an accurate study about timing and buff.....

    This +100 there is no reason to use another setup unless your goal is to kill stuff slower. Also, if you are dropping any divinity encounters in combat you are doing something wrong. You drop divinity And AA BEFORE combat, use your fully empowered stuff asap at the start of combat.

    There's a lot of confusing information in this thread and some people demanding their opinion should matter even though it's objectively wrong.

    I had a funny experience with a near 18k AC the other day. He was running these magical fits the playstyle rotations with bastion or whatever. After one run we kicked them (highest IL and worst member in group) and I asked a friend who had sold his enchantments earlier so running at 13.5k with an objectively good rotation. End result was we were hitting 200% harder (not kidding grifs up from 8-14 mil to 25-35 mil), and all bosses died in about 10 seconds.

    If there are aspiring DCs here, please adhere to midentals advice. Please cast AA and Bob BEFORE bondings proc and please dump divinity BEFORE fights start whenever possible. In combat just use ff/exalt as a.c., bts doom dg as do.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    Pod sucks :)

    I met a DC who boasted himself all through some runs to exalts both dps in codg (he didn´t in the end). Means he has to cast Exaltation every 5 seconds to keep it up, alternating between the two keybinds.
    It was mentioned a 2. AC could focus on exaltation, but honestly doing so you miss so many important things like placing your dDG, your eFF and your BoB/At Wills for an extra 12.5% buff.
    There is near no way to keep that buff up at 3 stacks on two player effectively in codg.
    Same as it is near impossible to run eFF (3x) plus bugged eExalt (3x) effectively all through codg...
    Too many breaks, too much footwork and divinitiy gain is too incoherent/slow for AC imo.

    I allways run eFF 3x for the raid + normal exaltation, same effect and better outcome in the sum. Even casting eFF with 50% uptime it would be equal or better, since I buff two dps plus the hole raid at once.
    In so many runs it looks like I am the only AC DC who uses eFF (3x), most AC´s obviously focus on eExalt (3x) and cast near zero FF?
    My observation in many many codg´s so far, irritating.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,488 Arc User
    I haven't tested it, but someone told me that normal Exaltation refreshes Empowered Exalt, so if true I could see someone doing it.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    toporok said:

    ...called [me] every name in the book because I was running bts (I was the Do btw) he said only the Ac should be running bts and ff.

    Reminds me of something Kongfuzi once said, "Little people are always fussing and fretting...

    Regardless of what encounter is used, if it fits and works within the play style of the player, I honestly don't care what is used.

    But the noble-minded are calm and secure."

    - shame you can't meet the one without tripping over the other.
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