Character slot is not useless and was not meant to be used to do RQ. "New" people thinks that was the reason. People has 50 characters way before Queue gave rAD. Yes, queue giving rAD actually is "new".
Reasons of character slots that will still apply are:
1. storage (the cheapest storage solution in the game) 2. leadership (and profession) 3. invocation AD bonus 4. Event prizes (tons of freebie implies AD) 5. invocation -> c-ward, p-ward, .... 6. no cool down for RP drop (if you switch among characters every day).
You left out "because Cryptic makes money selling them".
I was spelling out user's perspective (or just my perspective) instead of Cryptic's. But, you already knew that.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
the new ad alt farm methode is guild marks, use the 2xevents for sh currencies and campaign currencies for donations and buy mastercraft scrolls use them on 2xprofession event+ the sh bonn that gives 2xresources from the scrolls, making it 4 resources from each interaction.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
the new ad alt farm methode is guild marks, use the 2xevents for sh currencies and campaign currencies for donations and buy mastercraft scrolls use them on 2xprofession event+ the sh bonn that gives 2xresources from the scrolls, making it 4 resources from each interaction.
This is not really relevant to mod 14 as such, and there is nothing "new" about this, this is what many players have been doing for a long time. It has been a pretty effective way to make AD, but it has the drawback that if more people do this, or if demand for MW items drops, it becomes a lot less profitable.
Hoping for improvements...
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,452Arc User
the new ad alt farm methode is guild marks, use the 2xevents for sh currencies and campaign currencies for donations and buy mastercraft scrolls use them on 2xprofession event+ the sh bonn that gives 2xresources from the scrolls, making it 4 resources from each interaction.
This is not really relevant to mod 14 as such, and there is nothing "new" about this, this is what many players have been doing for a long time. It has been a pretty effective way to make AD, but it has the drawback that if more people do this, or if demand for MW items drops, it becomes a lot less profitable.
Yes, this goes along with many other ways to make AD. There are many "not so obvious" ways that people do not know, do not pay attention to or too much work for them. If there are too many people doing the same things, they will be nerf'ed or less profitable.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
The more people that enter a market, the more competition will arise. Since there is no branding, customization or a means by which someone can add value to the goods they sell, the only way to compete on the AH is through price. So as all these clever "new" means of gaining AD as opposed to generating RAD become more popular and widespread prices will drop. This will not be as a result of the quantitative tightening on RAD, but as a simple, and frankly bloody obvious, result of market saturation.
Recently an acquaintance of mine was looking forward to a double "something event", in order to make a killing on selling "certain MC stuff", only to discover that that boat had already sailed, the HAMSTER had dropped out of the market" and the amount they could earn meant their time would have been better spent running dungeons for salvage...
There are so many factors beyond the "fewer RAD = better value" model that some people seem to think will result from this change.
Prices already do, and will continue, fluctuate on the AH based on how many of a given commodity are available, and how fast they sell. (Supply and demand)
People who have already spent years playing the market will continue to be more successful than new people playing catch up. So all the great advice about how everyone will be able to make up the deficit by selling RP and MC commodities and so on is nonsense. People are already doing it. Hundreds of new vendors will just drive the price down.
Since (I've been confidently told) the AD:Zen rate will remain unaffected, this just means that rich players will get more bang for their buck, and the vendors will bear the brunt of that.
But keep telling yourselves that fewer RAD means more value... you might eventually bring Tinkerbell back to life.
People who have already spent years playing the market will continue to be more successful than new people playing catch up. So all the great advice about how everyone will be able to make up the deficit by selling RP and MC commodities and so on is nonsense. People are already doing it. Hundreds of new vendors will just drive the price down.
Since (I've been confidently told) the AD:Zen rate will remain unaffected, this just means that rich players will get more bang for their buck, and the vendors will bear the brunt of that.
But keep telling yourselves that fewer RAD means more value... you might eventually bring Tinkerbell back to life.
Very much agreed.
I recall a few years ago when I took a contract abroad in KL Malaysia. Even though KL is "high end tropics" the vast number of people are VERY poor and it was shocking to see. I sat inside a very polished marble lined mall with floor to roof windows gazing across the road as I ate fancy pancakes and saw people living in cardboard and plywood huts showering using bucket water probably to stay somewhat cool as Everyone else must remain indoors where air conditioning runs 24/7.
That same day I met the CEO of the company I was an operator for and after bringing up the topic, he merely laughed and said;
"They will remain right where they are and have ZERO chance to catch up to us" Since my role is in offering relief in a particular manner his stance to me was disgusting. (A later launched radionics spell helped him depolarize more than a tad and offer him a bit more insight to that other side -evil grin)
the new ad alt farm methode is guild marks, use the 2xevents for sh currencies and campaign currencies for donations and buy mastercraft scrolls use them on 2xprofession event+ the sh bonn that gives 2xresources from the scrolls, making it 4 resources from each interaction.
This is not really relevant to mod 14 as such, and there is nothing "new" about this, this is what many players have been doing for a long time. It has been a pretty effective way to make AD, but it has the drawback that if more people do this, or if demand for MW items drops, it becomes a lot less profitable.
this option makes random queue irrelevant for ad farming, mastercraft items is a thing and resources are needed. so make profit from selling the resources and let new players show their struggle with the new rq changes. selling resources gives ad not rad so refinind rad is basicly a small extra you can do with salvage that drops from dungeons. and with this methode you can farm multi chars for gmarks and have multiple chars buying the scrolls ^^ enjoy the "new" ad method.
Prices already do, and will continue, fluctuate on the AH based on how many of a given commodity are available, and how fast they sell. (Supply and demand)
People who have already spent years playing the market will continue to be more successful than new people playing catch up. So all the great advice about how everyone will be able to make up the deficit by selling RP and MC commodities and so on is nonsense. People are already doing it. Hundreds of new vendors will just drive the price down.
Hundreds new vendors, but for this to work there needs to be a demand, too. The last real demand was for the Major Potions of Healing back in MOD 3-4. A stack of 99 potions would sell for around 4-5K AD before the Dungeon Delves event.
Ever since that went out of the water, I do not recall a single item which is in high demand, other than RPs and GMOPS/SMOPS.
Nowadays I buy a stack of potion for 2000 AD, maybe less, and I do that once a month (because the rings need +85% of HP to give extra bonus, otherwise I'd keep a stack of potions and end up with two more because I rarely use them).
I've written this in one of the topics, but the Alchemy system needs a total overhaul because the consumables with expiatory nature are some of the best items on the market and are the best possible AD sink when operating fully.
However, just for the sake of the argument, what sort of items do you have in mind being sold by 100 + people which aren't already sold by 100+ people?
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,452Arc User
However, just for the sake of the argument, what sort of items do you have in mind being sold by 100 + people which aren't already sold by 100+ people?
For the sake of the argument, there are but the problem is if it is posted, it will not be. And the type of item keeps changing too because soon or later, people knows. I am working on a new one right now in which the material is "still" cheap but the end product has very high yield.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
However, I do think this will produce a healthier economy and also improve the RQ experience of many players, as fewer people will be running multiple undergeared alts through them just for the AD.
I doubt that. @noworries mentioned that numbmber of AD in a system increased by 75% within 2 years - thats a lot. Those AD remain stashed somwhere. I think I wont be wrong if I say that most of it is in heands of just w few players, who are able to control the market. Pretty much like irl - wealth is being acumulated by the few. Of curse we do not know the amount of AD stashed that way, but numbers must be huge. Now, even if that change will reduce a influx of fresh AD to the system, it wont flush out those already stashed - its not important how much new AD enters a system, while there is huge overfill already. Its importan how much vanish out if it. So, without serious sinks it wont work, as AD would simply criculate between players.
Circulation of AD is an AD sink. Every time you "pass" AD to another player 10% is gone. If one stash AD and never use it, that AD is not exactly in the economy. If one uses his stashed AD to "control" the market, every purchase takes 10% of that AD away.
That change gona punish a new players, they still needs tons of RP and marks for their enchants and quipment upgrades - and those are for most part fixed price items. Yea sure, they may be able to buy a companion cheaper but still needs fixed amount of AD to upgrade it and so on.
RP mostly is not fixed cost. Lower level Mark is not fixed cost. Higher level mark is. Right at this moment, RP cost in AH drop 40% in general because of 2xRefining stone. If one actually looks carefully, certain "not so obvious" RP item cost dropped 70% last night.
Really?
If circulation of AD trough AH would work there would be no AD overfolw in a system. It is a sink allright, but it is not enaugh. Simple as that. Besides many players already look to exchange their good out of AH simply to avoid that 10% on high prices items. Not to mention hunt trophies witch are completly out of that system.
If you really think that this new solution wont hurt new players, just make yourself a new account and try to level up a toon to resonable level. Even with your experience it wont be easy. And now try to take a look on that as a completly new player - no experience, no guild, no friends - from this point its not that easy any more.
I play on console but if this does help stabilize markets and the cost of things does some down on the AH I welcome it. I can't really be bothered juggling lots of alts, so anything that helps alleviate that need to is welcome.
Chalk me up to a wait and see what happens rather than any pre-change anger. The PS4 is pretty much at 500:1 now as well.
Prices already do, and will continue, fluctuate on the AH based on how many of a given commodity are available, and how fast they sell. (Supply and demand)
People who have already spent years playing the market will continue to be more successful than new people playing catch up. So all the great advice about how everyone will be able to make up the deficit by selling RP and MC commodities and so on is nonsense. People are already doing it. Hundreds of new vendors will just drive the price down.
Hundreds new vendors, but for this to work there needs to be a demand, too. The last real demand was for the Major Potions of Healing back in MOD 3-4. A stack of 99 potions would sell for around 4-5K AD before the Dungeon Delves event.
Ever since that went out of the water, I do not recall a single item which is in high demand, other than RPs and GMOPS/SMOPS.
Nowadays I buy a stack of potion for 2000 AD, maybe less, and I do that once a month (because the rings need +85% of HP to give extra bonus, otherwise I'd keep a stack of potions and end up with two more because I rarely use them).
I've written this in one of the topics, but the Alchemy system needs a total overhaul because the consumables with expiatory nature are some of the best items on the market and are the best possible AD sink when operating fully.
However, just for the sake of the argument, what sort of items do you have in mind being sold by 100 + people which aren't already sold by 100+ people?
Just out of interest? No offence, but I'll keep that to myself.
But what I will say is that people fixate on high price sales. Shirts, UEs, and so on. There's lots of high volume resources that sell fast at a good rate, but you have to get in quick and early with a high volume when stocks are low on the AH.
I used to make tens of thousands a day running two toons on some very basic resources. There were about a dozen of us and we did very well out of it. Low number lots, selling at a higher price than high volume lots. (Bulk discount) Then, as inevitably happens, people came in dropped very low number lots at a lower unit price than the volume discounted lots we were selling, slashing the market value of that commodity. More people got involved and three weeks later the price had dropped by 90%. I'd already started stockpiling something else so when the bottom fell out, I and a few others were already selling something else.
A year later, people had stopped fighting over the original commodity since it had been declared "a waste of time" by the all knowing hive mind. The price went back up and I sold it again. The price even went up to more than it had been the previous time, before the whole cycle started up again.
If you think that the AH hasn't had seriously profitable commodities since Mod 3 and 4... please continue to spread that sentiment. You'll be doing some of us a big favour.
ETA: P.S. If you haven't got the toons/professions to factory produce large numbers of goods quickly, you aren't going to see very much return from the process.
If you see a commodity selling at a good price, and think "ooh... I can start making that on my GF..." you're probably too late, cos by the time you have enough to earn a return worthy of the initial effort, there'll be loads of people with 20 toons farming that HAMSTER and the price will plummet.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I am perfectly, absolutely fine with the 100K limit, and hope it will result in a somewhat healthier economy.
I expect some items to drop in price - unbound dungeon drops and masterwork items for example, but the price of other items that originate in the Zen store like coalescent wards should not change much.
The main reason I support this, though, is that it discourages people from running multiple alts through the various dungeons - alts that are frequently undergeared and rely on others carrying them. I hope more people will actually be running the content because they enjoy it - and not just for the rAD.
Hoping for improvements...
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,452Arc User
However, I do think this will produce a healthier economy and also improve the RQ experience of many players, as fewer people will be running multiple undergeared alts through them just for the AD.
I doubt that. @noworries mentioned that numbmber of AD in a system increased by 75% within 2 years - thats a lot. Those AD remain stashed somwhere. I think I wont be wrong if I say that most of it is in heands of just w few players, who are able to control the market. Pretty much like irl - wealth is being acumulated by the few. Of curse we do not know the amount of AD stashed that way, but numbers must be huge. Now, even if that change will reduce a influx of fresh AD to the system, it wont flush out those already stashed - its not important how much new AD enters a system, while there is huge overfill already. Its importan how much vanish out if it. So, without serious sinks it wont work, as AD would simply criculate between players.
Circulation of AD is an AD sink. Every time you "pass" AD to another player 10% is gone. If one stash AD and never use it, that AD is not exactly in the economy. If one uses his stashed AD to "control" the market, every purchase takes 10% of that AD away.
That change gona punish a new players, they still needs tons of RP and marks for their enchants and quipment upgrades - and those are for most part fixed price items. Yea sure, they may be able to buy a companion cheaper but still needs fixed amount of AD to upgrade it and so on.
RP mostly is not fixed cost. Lower level Mark is not fixed cost. Higher level mark is. Right at this moment, RP cost in AH drop 40% in general because of 2xRefining stone. If one actually looks carefully, certain "not so obvious" RP item cost dropped 70% last night.
Really?
If circulation of AD trough AH would work there would be no AD overfolw in a system. It is a sink allright, but it is not enaugh. Simple as that. Besides many players already look to exchange their good out of AH simply to avoid that 10% on high prices items. Not to mention hunt trophies witch are completly out of that system.
If you really think that this new solution wont hurt new players, just make yourself a new account and try to level up a toon to resonable level. Even with your experience it wont be easy. And now try to take a look on that as a completly new player - no experience, no guild, no friends - from this point its not that easy any more.
Where did I say in any post in this thread this won't hurt new player or any type of player?
I pointed out circulation of AD will take away 10% in each transaction. If there is no new AD, the whatever stash amount will be chipped away by every AD transaction. There are only 2 type of "AD transaction" that does not involve AD sink that I can think of: 1. through Zax 2. AH price lower than 10 AD. Those who have a stash of AD but not adding more will not last forever if they do enough AD transactions. There is no interest to keep AD. Keeping AD has no growth.
If one does trade, there is no AD involvement. Is RP fixed cost in terms of AD? No. Is low level mark fixed cost in terms of AD? No.
Regarding "completly new player - no experience, no guild, no friends - from this point its not that easy any more", I won't say this is easy. I can only say the current situation and the upcoming situation are still way easier than I was a new player. Again, I am not saying this is easy. It is more about it was way harder.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I am perfectly, absolutely fine with the 100K limit, and hope it will result in a somewhat healthier economy.
I expect some items to drop in price - unbound dungeon drops and masterwork items for example, but the price of other items that originate in the Zen store like coalescent wards should not change much.
The main reason I support this, though, is that it discourages people from running multiple alts through the various dungeons - alts that are frequently undergeared and rely on others carrying them. I hope more people will actually be running the content because they enjoy it - and not just for the rAD.
You realise that this change comes hand in hand with a major change in how the cap can be reached? That only one toon per day can achieve the first time RAD reward for dungeons, and the random queue with all the Epic Dungeons (up to CN) can be run by 9k characters?
The best model to run on this new system involves running a different toon every day so that you can take advantage of, first run bonuses as well as weeklies and, more importantly enough Invoke RAD bonus to boost everything earned by 50%.
Running a "main" every day means you only get one day's worth of invoke bonus, meaning that they would STILL need to use alts on salvage runs to hit anywhere near the 100k.
1 9k toon needs to do one each of the two lowest tier RQs for a (pre VIP) total of 20'000 RAD. six weeklies for 24'000 then whatever they deem the most efficient way to hit 22k in salvage. (a lot less if VIP is involved) to hit roughly 66.66k RAD. Since that toon does nothing else the rest of the week, they have a full 7 day's Invoke bonus, so they hit the 100k cap. If they can also run the 15k RAD queue its even less salvage, or salvage they can pass on to tomorrows toon.
Hope is a wonderful thing, but hoping this is going to see alts not running dungeons as often is likely to lead to disappointment.
I for one will be running a lot more alts on RQ dungeon runs than my "main". Some of whom currently can't get in via Random Epic Queues.
If you really think that this new solution wont hurt new players, just make yourself a new account and try to level up a toon to resonable level. Even with your experience it wont be easy. And now try to take a look on that as a completly new player - no experience, no guild, no friends - from this point its not that easy any more.
A new player will be able to get all primal gear from running just leveling dungeons. And there are a wide assortment of artifact equipment and companions available in the AH for a few hundred, or thousands, of AD. After a few weeks (or even days if they go to town on the leveling and intermediate dungeons), they can go enjoy the latest mod 14. The only thing they will need AD for is ranking up enchantments. There is, or will be, no better time to be a new player in NWN.
I had intended for my previous post to be my first and last forum post. However, after having followed both this thread and the RQ changes thread closely, it surprises me that the proverbial elephant in the room hasn't been given more attention in light of the many and varied quite insightful postings as to the shortcomings of these proposed changes.
When the AD account cap and the RQ limits go live, it is - as some have already correctly pointed out - a double whammy. The AD account cap will make it impossible to farm the large sums of AD needed to upgrade companions, enchantments, artifacts, etc. While the RQ limits will make it effectively impossible to hit the daily AD cap.
Now, some of the Cryptic staff and their apologist followers claim this is to reign in the zen currency exchange. I am highly skeptical of this claim.
Consider this: If we still have fixed prices (which we do and will - ex. upgrading companions) along with the glaring omission in the developers' plans that completely ignore the mechanics of supply and demand (ex. legendary mounts on AH that cost between 5-21+ million AD - they cost that because they have a drop rate of 0.13% per lockbox, and are coveted by all players. Low/rare supply and high demand are what keeps their prices in the millions), and now combine that with an AD cap where none effectively existed before due to alts, and the crippling RQ limits, where does a player then get his/her hands on AD fast enough and in sufficient quantities to keep up with the MMO stable of power creep/chasing-the-gear-dragon? Ding! Ding! Ding! That's right: Through the zen currency exchange.
The only realistic, guaranteed, and timely manner for any player - new or established (but especially new players) - to accumulate the tens-upon-tens of millions of AD (and quite possibly AD in the triple digit millions) needed to upgrade companions, enchantments, artifacts, etc. is to....purchase Zen through the Zen store with real-world money, and then purchase AD with that Zen. (And please, let's not have some bright spark start going on again about mastercrafting or playing the AH. Those are not even remotely realistic options for many players - especially new players who lack the logistical network, the savvy, and the start-up in-game capital to engage in such undertakings. They are effectively out of their reach.)
There it is. What I suspect is the real driving motive behind these proposed changes by Cryptic even as they have the audacity to claim it is in our own best interest. Nonsense! This is yet another money grab - nothing more, nothing less, yet all the same as disgusting and deplorable as ever.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,452Arc User
If you really think that this new solution wont hurt new players, just make yourself a new account and try to level up a toon to resonable level. Even with your experience it wont be easy. And now try to take a look on that as a completly new player - no experience, no guild, no friends - from this point its not that easy any more.
A new player will be able to get all primal gear from running just leveling dungeons. And there are a wide assortment of artifact equipment and companions available in the AH for a few hundred, or thousands, of AD. After a few weeks (or even days if they go to town on the leveling and intermediate dungeons), they can go enjoy the latest mod 14. The only thing they will need AD for is ranking up enchantments. There is, or will be, no better time to be a new player in NWN.
Yes, if the player is die hard enough, technically, a new level 70 character will be able to get a full set of primal gear in one day by doing the 3 player level dungeon only. Obviously, this is only one particular aspect of the game.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
The 100k rAD is going to change nothing. They are making it harder and harder to earn AD and did the nerf to the 30k rAD overlevels do anything to fix the economy/game? Not at all.
With the mix of horrible drop rates/bad loot in dungeons, the only way a player is going to progress is to open their wallet (which is the idea for them). Go look at the game Warframe and see how they handle microtransactions and don't use an AH and it rewards players who play and most people buy the premium in game currency with money to support the company instead of being forced to like in neberwinter. The whole economy in this game needs an overhaul, too much focus on getting people to open their wallets and not enough focus on the actual game. There's 27 pages of feedback and I'd bet a month's worth of wagrs the devs will not listen to a single piece of feedback. Wven if the 100k rAD does help the economy it will take years and for a game that loses players much more often than other games it will probably be dead by the time anythimg changes and servers closed. Most people I see claiming this is a good change is the super casual weekend player who has been playing for years and is still 9k item level.
Most people I see claiming this is a good change is the super casual weekend player who has been playing for years and is still 9k item level.
Your entire post I agree with comrade.
These veteran 9kers are smart enough to have seen all of this long ago and chose to fully direct their attention to enjoy elements that these self destructing decisions (eventually if not sooner than later) cannot alter.
I have already started/ returned to that strategy and frankly its a lot more fun and dis-enslaving and I have these devs to thank; as I have applied that to other games I enjoy the core elements in as well.
It occurs to me that capping refinement at 100,000 RAD is actually too high. 50,000-60,000 might be better.
noworries said they could be talked into a higher cap. i think that means they've ran the numbers and by their calculations it should make a difference for the positive even at the rate they've suggested. we don't have the numbers so we're all shooting at this with no actual data. gotta trust that they are right.
Most people I see claiming this is a good change is the super casual weekend player who has been playing for years and is still 9k item level.
Your entire post I agree with comrade.
These veteran 9kers are smart enough to have seen all of this long ago and chose to fully direct their attention to enjoy elements that these self destructing decisions (eventually if not sooner than later) cannot alter.
I have already started/ returned to that strategy and frankly its a lot more fun and dis-enslaving and I have these devs to thank; as I have applied that to other games I enjoy the core elements in as well.
most of the players I've seen who have no problem with this are already wealthy and in the 16k and FAR above category.
Most people I see claiming this is a good change is the super casual weekend player who has been playing for years and is still 9k item level.
Your entire post I agree with comrade.
These veteran 9kers are smart enough to have seen all of this long ago and chose to fully direct their attention to enjoy elements that these self destructing decisions (eventually if not sooner than later) cannot alter.
I have already started/ returned to that strategy and frankly its a lot more fun and dis-enslaving and I have these devs to thank; as I have applied that to other games I enjoy the core elements in as well.
most of the players I've seen who have no problem with this are already wealthy and in the 16k and FAR above category.
Indeed, them too. I have a near 15K TR and sure, this makes no difference to Mr TR but gone will be dev any other toons in other classes. Besides, there are just too many good new games arriving to lean into that doesn't involve this HAMSTER
Most people I see claiming this is a good change is the super casual weekend player who has been playing for years and is still 9k item level.
Your entire post I agree with comrade.
These veteran 9kers are smart enough to have seen all of this long ago and chose to fully direct their attention to enjoy elements that these self destructing decisions (eventually if not sooner than later) cannot alter.
I have already started/ returned to that strategy and frankly its a lot more fun and dis-enslaving and I have these devs to thank; as I have applied that to other games I enjoy the core elements in as well.
most of the players I've seen who have no problem with this are already wealthy and in the 16k and FAR above category.
Indeed, them too. I have a near 15K TR and sure, this makes no difference to Mr TR but gone will be dev any other toons in other classes. Besides, there are just too many good new games arriving to lean into that doesn't involve this HAMSTER
I have no idea of what you are trying to say here other than you disagree with the changes. lol
you'll be back. (this honestly won't create the wasteland people are imagining)
Most people I see claiming this is a good change is the super casual weekend player who has been playing for years and is still 9k item level.
Your entire post I agree with comrade.
These veteran 9kers are smart enough to have seen all of this long ago and chose to fully direct their attention to enjoy elements that these self destructing decisions (eventually if not sooner than later) cannot alter.
I have already started/ returned to that strategy and frankly its a lot more fun and dis-enslaving and I have these devs to thank; as I have applied that to other games I enjoy the core elements in as well.
most of the players I've seen who have no problem with this are already wealthy and in the 16k and FAR above category.
Indeed, them too. I have a near 15K TR and sure, this makes no difference to Mr TR but gone will be dev any other toons in other classes. Besides, there are just too many good new games arriving to lean into that doesn't involve this HAMSTER
I have no idea of what you are trying to say here other than you disagree with the changes. lol
you'll be back. (this honestly won't create the wasteland people are imagining)
1. You are in no position to know what he/she will or will not do. You may be willing to suffer abusive practices - that's your choice to make. Know that there are certainly people with a far lower threshold of tolerance for suffering such behaviour. (I'm one of them, and yes, I've left games before, and I am quite willing to do so again. See, I gain a measure of satisfaction reminding developers - be it in a small or larger manner - that they need my money more than I need their game. )
2. There are at least as many - actually more in light of the economic revelations laid bare in these threads - reasons as to why this latest upcoming bungling attempt won't fix the economy, as there have been half-baked, wishful thinking claims by Cryptic and a gathering of their lapdogs that it will. That, again, is your choice to make, just as it is the choice of him/her, me, and (gauging by the lengthy feedback) many other players in this game are of the view that it won't.
Time will tell. Someone is going to end up eating humble pie, and it might just end up being you. ;-)
1. You are in no position to know what he/she will or will not do. You may be willing to suffer abusive practices - that's your choice to make. Know that there are certainly people with a far lower threshold of tolerance for suffering such behaviour. (I'm one of them, and yes, I've left games before, and I am quite willing to do so again. See, I gain a measure of satisfaction reminding developers - be it in a small or larger manner - that they need my money more than I need their game. )
2. There are at least as many - actually more in light of the economic revelations laid bare in these threads - reasons as to why this latest upcoming bungling attempt won't fix the economy, as there have been half-baked, wishful thinking claims by Cryptic and a gathering of their lapdogs that it will. That, again, is your choice to make, just as it is the choice of him/her, me, and (gauging by the lengthy feedback) many other players in this game are of the view that it won't.
Time will tell. Someone is going to end up eating humble pie, and it might just end up being you. ;-)
Abusive practices? LOL. It is a *free* game.
If you are "suffering," why are you sticking around? I just don't get that.
At worst, this is an inconvenience for those players who want to play for free but at the same time want to be BiS. This may come as a surprise to most folks, apparently, but this game is still pretty fun even if you aren't BiS.
1. You are in no position to know what he/she will or will not do. You may be willing to suffer abusive practices - that's your choice to make. Know that there are certainly people with a far lower threshold of tolerance for suffering such behaviour. (I'm one of them, and yes, I've left games before, and I am quite willing to do so again. See, I gain a measure of satisfaction reminding developers - be it in a small or larger manner - that they need my money more than I need their game. )
2. There are at least as many - actually more in light of the economic revelations laid bare in these threads - reasons as to why this latest upcoming bungling attempt won't fix the economy, as there have been half-baked, wishful thinking claims by Cryptic and a gathering of their lapdogs that it will. That, again, is your choice to make, just as it is the choice of him/her, me, and (gauging by the lengthy feedback) many other players in this game are of the view that it won't.
Time will tell. Someone is going to end up eating humble pie, and it might just end up being you. ;-)
Abusive practices? LOL. It is a *free* game.
If you are "suffering," why are you sticking around? I just don't get that.
At worst, this is an inconvenience for those players who want to play for free but at the same time want to be BiS. This may come as a surprise to most folks, apparently, but this game is still pretty fun even if you aren't BiS.
> @rubytrue said: > 1. You are in no position to know what he/she will or will not do. You may be willing to suffer abusive practices - that's your choice to make. Know that there are certainly people with a far lower threshold of tolerance for suffering such behaviour. (I'm one of them, and yes, I've left games before, and I am quite willing to do so again. See, I gain a measure of satisfaction reminding developers - be it in a small or larger manner - that they need my money more than I need their game. ) > > 2. There are at least as many - actually more in light of the economic revelations laid bare in these threads - reasons as to why this latest upcoming bungling attempt won't fix the economy, as there have been half-baked, wishful thinking claims by Cryptic and a gathering of their lapdogs that it will. That, again, is your choice to make, just as it is the choice of him/her, me, and (gauging by the lengthy feedback) many other players in this game are of the view that it won't. > > Time will tell. Someone is going to end up eating humble pie, and it might just end up being you. ;-) > > Abusive practices? LOL. It is a *free* game. > > If you are "suffering," why are you sticking around? I just don't get that. > > At worst, this is an inconvenience for those players who want to play for free but at the same time want to be BiS. This may come as a surprise to most folks, apparently, but this game is still pretty fun even if you aren't BiS.
You are going to go with the *free* game argument? You will either pay with money or lots of your time and nobody wants either wasted. A lot of people enjoy the game and have invested money/time into both so its only natural they will stick around even through "suffering" nerfs to classes, nerfs to making ad, not fixing year old bugs, etc, in the hope things will get better but it rarely does.
Abusive practices happen even in "free" games, what do you call nerfing classes multiple times that people have spent months/years on and or money on to the point where certain people won't even invite you anymore? This isn't Street Fighter where you can simply pick a new character and move on. Especially nerfing classes that were already out performed by other classes and leaving other classes broken, its insulting.
Comments
Since there is no branding, customization or a means by which someone can add value to the goods they sell, the only way to compete on the AH is through price.
So as all these clever "new" means of gaining AD as opposed to generating RAD become more popular and widespread prices will drop. This will not be as a result of the quantitative tightening on RAD, but as a simple, and frankly bloody obvious, result of market saturation.
Recently an acquaintance of mine was looking forward to a double "something event", in order to make a killing on selling "certain MC stuff", only to discover that that boat had already sailed, the HAMSTER had dropped out of the market" and the amount they could earn meant their time would have been better spent running dungeons for salvage...
There are so many factors beyond the "fewer RAD = better value" model that some people seem to think will result from this change.
Prices already do, and will continue, fluctuate on the AH based on how many of a given commodity are available, and how fast they sell. (Supply and demand)
People who have already spent years playing the market will continue to be more successful than new people playing catch up.
So all the great advice about how everyone will be able to make up the deficit by selling RP and MC commodities and so on is nonsense.
People are already doing it.
Hundreds of new vendors will just drive the price down.
Since (I've been confidently told) the AD:Zen rate will remain unaffected, this just means that rich players will get more bang for their buck, and the vendors will bear the brunt of that.
But keep telling yourselves that fewer RAD means more value... you might eventually bring Tinkerbell back to life.
I recall a few years ago when I took a contract abroad in KL Malaysia. Even though KL is "high end tropics" the vast number of people are VERY poor and it was shocking to see.
I sat inside a very polished marble lined mall with floor to roof windows gazing across the road as I ate fancy pancakes and saw people living in cardboard and plywood huts showering using bucket water probably to stay somewhat cool as Everyone else must remain indoors where air conditioning runs 24/7.
That same day I met the CEO of the company I was an operator for and after bringing up the topic, he merely laughed and said;
"They will remain right where they are and have ZERO chance to catch up to us"
Since my role is in offering relief in a particular manner his stance to me was disgusting. (A later launched radionics spell helped him depolarize more than a tad and offer him a bit more insight to that other side -evil grin)
And people say video games are just games...
Welcome to NW
50,000-60,000 might be better.
Ever since that went out of the water, I do not recall a single item which is in high demand, other than RPs and GMOPS/SMOPS.
Nowadays I buy a stack of potion for 2000 AD, maybe less, and I do that once a month (because the rings need +85% of HP to give extra bonus, otherwise I'd keep a stack of potions and end up with two more because I rarely use them).
I've written this in one of the topics, but the Alchemy system needs a total overhaul because the consumables with expiatory nature are some of the best items on the market and are the best possible AD sink when operating fully.
However, just for the sake of the argument, what sort of items do you have in mind being sold by 100 + people which aren't already sold by 100+ people?
And the type of item keeps changing too because soon or later, people knows.
I am working on a new one right now in which the material is "still" cheap but the end product has very high yield.
If circulation of AD trough AH would work there would be no AD overfolw in a system. It is a sink allright, but it is not enaugh. Simple as that. Besides many players already look to exchange their good out of AH simply to avoid that 10% on high prices items. Not to mention hunt trophies witch are completly out of that system.
If you really think that this new solution wont hurt new players, just make yourself a new account and try to level up a toon to resonable level. Even with your experience it wont be easy. And now try to take a look on that as a completly new player - no experience, no guild, no friends - from this point its not that easy any more.
Chalk me up to a wait and see what happens rather than any pre-change anger. The PS4 is pretty much at 500:1 now as well.
No offence, but I'll keep that to myself.
But what I will say is that people fixate on high price sales. Shirts, UEs, and so on. There's lots of high volume resources that sell fast at a good rate, but you have to get in quick and early with a high volume when stocks are low on the AH.
I used to make tens of thousands a day running two toons on some very basic resources. There were about a dozen of us and we did very well out of it. Low number lots, selling at a higher price than high volume lots. (Bulk discount)
Then, as inevitably happens, people came in dropped very low number lots at a lower unit price than the volume discounted lots we were selling, slashing the market value of that commodity. More people got involved and three weeks later the price had dropped by 90%.
I'd already started stockpiling something else so when the bottom fell out, I and a few others were already selling something else.
A year later, people had stopped fighting over the original commodity since it had been declared "a waste of time" by the all knowing hive mind. The price went back up and I sold it again. The price even went up to more than it had been the previous time, before the whole cycle started up again.
If you think that the AH hasn't had seriously profitable commodities since Mod 3 and 4... please continue to spread that sentiment. You'll be doing some of us a big favour.
ETA: P.S.
If you haven't got the toons/professions to factory produce large numbers of goods quickly, you aren't going to see very much return from the process.
If you see a commodity selling at a good price, and think "ooh... I can start making that on my GF..." you're probably too late, cos by the time you have enough to earn a return worthy of the initial effort, there'll be loads of people with 20 toons farming that HAMSTER and the price will plummet.
I expect some items to drop in price - unbound dungeon drops and masterwork items for example, but the price of other items that originate in the Zen store like coalescent wards should not change much.
The main reason I support this, though, is that it discourages people from running multiple alts through the various dungeons - alts that are frequently undergeared and rely on others carrying them. I hope more people will actually be running the content because they enjoy it - and not just for the rAD.
I pointed out circulation of AD will take away 10% in each transaction. If there is no new AD, the whatever stash amount will be chipped away by every AD transaction. There are only 2 type of "AD transaction" that does not involve AD sink that I can think of:
1. through Zax
2. AH price lower than 10 AD.
Those who have a stash of AD but not adding more will not last forever if they do enough AD transactions. There is no interest to keep AD. Keeping AD has no growth.
If one does trade, there is no AD involvement.
Is RP fixed cost in terms of AD? No. Is low level mark fixed cost in terms of AD? No.
Regarding "completly new player - no experience, no guild, no friends - from this point its not that easy any more", I won't say this is easy. I can only say the current situation and the upcoming situation are still way easier than I was a new player. Again, I am not saying this is easy. It is more about it was way harder.
That only one toon per day can achieve the first time RAD reward for dungeons, and the random queue with all the Epic Dungeons (up to CN) can be run by 9k characters?
The best model to run on this new system involves running a different toon every day so that you can take advantage of, first run bonuses as well as weeklies and, more importantly enough Invoke RAD bonus to boost everything earned by 50%.
Running a "main" every day means you only get one day's worth of invoke bonus, meaning that they would STILL need to use alts on salvage runs to hit anywhere near the 100k.
1 9k toon needs to do one each of the two lowest tier RQs for a (pre VIP) total of 20'000 RAD. six weeklies for 24'000 then whatever they deem the most efficient way to hit 22k in salvage. (a lot less if VIP is involved) to hit roughly 66.66k RAD. Since that toon does nothing else the rest of the week, they have a full 7 day's Invoke bonus, so they hit the 100k cap.
If they can also run the 15k RAD queue its even less salvage, or salvage they can pass on to tomorrows toon.
Hope is a wonderful thing, but hoping this is going to see alts not running dungeons as often is likely to lead to disappointment.
I for one will be running a lot more alts on RQ dungeon runs than my "main". Some of whom currently can't get in via Random Epic Queues.
When the AD account cap and the RQ limits go live, it is - as some have already correctly pointed out - a double whammy. The AD account cap will make it impossible to farm the large sums of AD needed to upgrade companions, enchantments, artifacts, etc. While the RQ limits will make it effectively impossible to hit the daily AD cap.
Now, some of the Cryptic staff and their apologist followers claim this is to reign in the zen currency exchange. I am highly skeptical of this claim.
Consider this: If we still have fixed prices (which we do and will - ex. upgrading companions) along with the glaring omission in the developers' plans that completely ignore the mechanics of supply and demand (ex. legendary mounts on AH that cost between 5-21+ million AD - they cost that because they have a drop rate of 0.13% per lockbox, and are coveted by all players. Low/rare supply and high demand are what keeps their prices in the millions), and now combine that with an AD cap where none effectively existed before due to alts, and the crippling RQ limits, where does a player then get his/her hands on AD fast enough and in sufficient quantities to keep up with the MMO stable of power creep/chasing-the-gear-dragon? Ding! Ding! Ding! That's right: Through the zen currency exchange.
The only realistic, guaranteed, and timely manner for any player - new or established (but especially new players) - to accumulate the tens-upon-tens of millions of AD (and quite possibly AD in the triple digit millions) needed to upgrade companions, enchantments, artifacts, etc. is to....purchase Zen through the Zen store with real-world money, and then purchase AD with that Zen. (And please, let's not have some bright spark start going on again about mastercrafting or playing the AH. Those are not even remotely realistic options for many players - especially new players who lack the logistical network, the savvy, and the start-up in-game capital to engage in such undertakings. They are effectively out of their reach.)
There it is. What I suspect is the real driving motive behind these proposed changes by Cryptic even as they have the audacity to claim it is in our own best interest. Nonsense! This is yet another money grab - nothing more, nothing less, yet all the same as disgusting and deplorable as ever.
With the mix of horrible drop rates/bad loot in dungeons, the only way a player is going to progress is to open their wallet (which is the idea for them). Go look at the game Warframe and see how they handle microtransactions and don't use an AH and it rewards players who play and most people buy the premium in game currency with money to support the company instead of being forced to like in neberwinter. The whole economy in this game needs an overhaul, too much focus on getting people to open their wallets and not enough focus on the actual game. There's 27 pages of feedback and I'd bet a month's worth of wagrs the devs will not listen to a single piece of feedback. Wven if the 100k rAD does help the economy it will take years and for a game that loses players much more often than other games it will probably be dead by the time anythimg changes and servers closed. Most people I see claiming this is a good change is the super casual weekend player who has been playing for years and is still 9k item level.
These veteran 9kers are smart enough to have seen all of this long ago and chose to fully direct their attention to enjoy elements that these self destructing decisions (eventually if not sooner than later) cannot alter.
I have already started/ returned to that strategy and frankly its a lot more fun and dis-enslaving and I have these devs to thank; as I have applied that to other games I enjoy the core elements in as well.
you'll be back. (this honestly won't create the wasteland people are imagining)
2. There are at least as many - actually more in light of the economic revelations laid bare in these threads - reasons as to why this latest upcoming bungling attempt won't fix the economy, as there have been half-baked, wishful thinking claims by Cryptic and a gathering of their lapdogs that it will. That, again, is your choice to make, just as it is the choice of him/her, me, and (gauging by the lengthy feedback) many other players in this game are of the view that it won't.
Time will tell. Someone is going to end up eating humble pie, and it might just end up being you. ;-)
If you are "suffering," why are you sticking around? I just don't get that.
At worst, this is an inconvenience for those players who want to play for free but at the same time want to be BiS. This may come as a surprise to most folks, apparently, but this game is still pretty fun even if you aren't BiS.
> 1. You are in no position to know what he/she will or will not do. You may be willing to suffer abusive practices - that's your choice to make. Know that there are certainly people with a far lower threshold of tolerance for suffering such behaviour. (I'm one of them, and yes, I've left games before, and I am quite willing to do so again. See, I gain a measure of satisfaction reminding developers - be it in a small or larger manner - that they need my money more than I need their game.
>
> 2. There are at least as many - actually more in light of the economic revelations laid bare in these threads - reasons as to why this latest upcoming bungling attempt won't fix the economy, as there have been half-baked, wishful thinking claims by Cryptic and a gathering of their lapdogs that it will. That, again, is your choice to make, just as it is the choice of him/her, me, and (gauging by the lengthy feedback) many other players in this game are of the view that it won't.
>
> Time will tell. Someone is going to end up eating humble pie, and it might just end up being you. ;-)
>
> Abusive practices? LOL. It is a *free* game.
>
> If you are "suffering," why are you sticking around? I just don't get that.
>
> At worst, this is an inconvenience for those players who want to play for free but at the same time want to be BiS. This may come as a surprise to most folks, apparently, but this game is still pretty fun even if you aren't BiS.
You are going to go with the *free* game argument? You will either pay with money or lots of your time and nobody wants either wasted. A lot of people enjoy the game and have invested money/time into both so its only natural they will stick around even through "suffering" nerfs to classes, nerfs to making ad, not fixing year old bugs, etc, in the hope things will get better but it rarely does.
Abusive practices happen even in "free" games, what do you call nerfing classes multiple times that people have spent months/years on and or money on to the point where certain people won't even invite you anymore? This isn't Street Fighter where you can simply pick a new character and move on. Especially nerfing classes that were already out performed by other classes and leaving other classes broken, its insulting.