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cradle of the death god
eolee
Member Posts: 264 Arc User
After some hours spent in the new trial i'd like to ask/give some feedback (yea i know, might have been done on preview sorry)
First of all, the cutscene: before fighting the atropal, can we skip this long cutscene where we get to see our character from front back side and so on?
Secondly: before every new release when you devs introduced some new mechanics we got some sort of practice (i think about Drufi in Fangbreaker Hideways for example with her push and so on). It was nice. We knew what to expect. We could practice the push, not hours needed but after the second try, we got it. And for CODG nothing.
So you will say there's no practice for Ras Nsi in Tong. Ok! Fair enough, but guess what, when we fail Ras Nsi we restart at the campfire before the boss. So first timers in there get to practice with the tilt the souls and all that jazz without having to restart the whole dungeon. For CODG, there's no room for a single mistake. Whereas the elevator is pretty easy to get with mechanisms, im sorry but the push/pull of Atropal is unforgiving. I like the idea really, of everybody having (or mostly everybody) to success this push/pull phases to keep going. Fair enough. But why on earth do we have to restart all over with the elevator and the chords? This is disheartening (spelling?). This is a skill check. I get that. But for some classes this push/pull is way easier to do than on others. I ran it on my OP, i had no issue. On my DC it was a pain. Gwf can sprint for example.
So maybe you dont want to put a campfire before Atropal, because that wasnt your point in creating the trial... That would be nice but i would understand that you dont want to. What if you would build a Atropal fight training? Something we could kwew for without any kind of rewards, but it would allow people to practice the push/pull without having to restart all over. Some people learn faster than others. And yet again this is going (if not already) to create an other gap between players.
Currently there's three kinds of groups running this content: the first one is exploiting the hell out of it. The second one is trying over and over and over, then kick one or two persons that they think are too weak, some are eventually giving up and this kind of group eventually succeed after 2hrs. The third one is the guild type one, where 90% of the group is skilled enough to burn the boss and get through only 1 or 2 push/pull during the fight.
Not everyone wants to exploit this trial, not everyone is in the guild where there's enough people to carry the ones that fail at Super Mario skill check.
First of all, the cutscene: before fighting the atropal, can we skip this long cutscene where we get to see our character from front back side and so on?
Secondly: before every new release when you devs introduced some new mechanics we got some sort of practice (i think about Drufi in Fangbreaker Hideways for example with her push and so on). It was nice. We knew what to expect. We could practice the push, not hours needed but after the second try, we got it. And for CODG nothing.
So you will say there's no practice for Ras Nsi in Tong. Ok! Fair enough, but guess what, when we fail Ras Nsi we restart at the campfire before the boss. So first timers in there get to practice with the tilt the souls and all that jazz without having to restart the whole dungeon. For CODG, there's no room for a single mistake. Whereas the elevator is pretty easy to get with mechanisms, im sorry but the push/pull of Atropal is unforgiving. I like the idea really, of everybody having (or mostly everybody) to success this push/pull phases to keep going. Fair enough. But why on earth do we have to restart all over with the elevator and the chords? This is disheartening (spelling?). This is a skill check. I get that. But for some classes this push/pull is way easier to do than on others. I ran it on my OP, i had no issue. On my DC it was a pain. Gwf can sprint for example.
So maybe you dont want to put a campfire before Atropal, because that wasnt your point in creating the trial... That would be nice but i would understand that you dont want to. What if you would build a Atropal fight training? Something we could kwew for without any kind of rewards, but it would allow people to practice the push/pull without having to restart all over. Some people learn faster than others. And yet again this is going (if not already) to create an other gap between players.
Currently there's three kinds of groups running this content: the first one is exploiting the hell out of it. The second one is trying over and over and over, then kick one or two persons that they think are too weak, some are eventually giving up and this kind of group eventually succeed after 2hrs. The third one is the guild type one, where 90% of the group is skilled enough to burn the boss and get through only 1 or 2 push/pull during the fight.
Not everyone wants to exploit this trial, not everyone is in the guild where there's enough people to carry the ones that fail at Super Mario skill check.
13
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MSP 2nd, FBI 1st (kind off) or 2nd, Tong 3rd bossess? It's actually more like they like platform mechanics too much :P
I will say that sometimes you DONT get the animation of him going down and starting the sucking motion. That should just not happen.
Could we please see some adjustment to alleviate the unnecessary pain points in this trial? The push/pull thing needs to be tweaked badly, or else there needs to be a mechanic in the fight that gives us a legitimate way to resist it and not hope that we aren't killed by latency or by glitches even while dodging correctly. At this rate, the pain is only going to ratchet up once the log out trick is patched. Not having a campfire at the end just makes it so much worse when you fail from no fault of your own.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Part of Team Tredecim of the Cloaks Alliance website
https://cloakalliance.wordpress.com/
No need to rush anything in this game, take your time, learn and be awarded for that.
Cheers
Now don't get me wrong here, I think the pull-push mechanic is actually a very good addition to this trial. Please don't nerf this mechanic, its fine the way it is and its nice to see a real skill check get implemented in this game. Lots of players asked for harder content because most prior content was too easy and could be burned down whilst totally ignoring the mechanics. Please do not go back on their request just because a few people either don't want a challenge or have yet to learn how to counter this new mechanic.
There are however 2 minor tweaks I would like to see for the pull-push stage. The pull-push mechanic itself should stay as is:
#1) The grasping hand is a death sentence if it grabs you durring the pull-push. No time for your teammates to bust you out, no way to survive it. Making it so the grasping hand doesn't grab you durring the pull-push phase would be a great adjustment.
#2) Fix any outright bugs with the trial. Someone mentioned earlyer that they sometimes don't get the pull-push stage animation. Someone else mentioned that the push outwards might be double its normal length some of the time.
As for lag, it is one of the most crippling and most heavily complained about things in this game. It effects everything you do. I want to see the servers get upgraded to reduce the lag. This is long overdue.
Also, for those of you who have not yet figured out how to survive the pull-push mechanic, here are 2 videos. The first one is a short video that demonstrates the correct way to counter the pull-push mechanic on 4 different classes. The second video goes over the entire trial including the push-pull mechanic:
Video removed by mod due to flaming/flame baiting.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Good, constructive post. If they fixed the bugs associated with the mechanic, it should be doable even with latency issues due to its uniform timing.
Also, let's all be honest that this mechanic by itself, when it works properly, does not constitute end-game difficulty. It's not hard; it's simply very punishing if failed. It's kind of an odd choice as the trial's signature mechanic given how bug and latency-prone the end-game encounters tend to be, but I agree that it's a good thing that the devs are trying to include challenges that aren't completely tank-and-spank. To be fair, this trial doesn't require a massive ilvl or even strict adherence to ideal comps. The DPS check aspect isn't that crazy; it's just necessary that the group be able to execute the mechanics. Right now players are focused on max DPS because of how recurring bugs make the experience inconsistent, and higher DPS means fewer mechanics to deal with. Not all of my clears this week have had amazing group DPS, but I admit it helped.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Maybe I would learn it with time if I would have some training ground. Running whole thing only to die at first pull x repeat dozens of time don't help me learn it at all.
I liken it to psychological warfare. Starting over from the beginning forces everyone in your group to suffer the slow agonizing first phase. This drastically increases the chances of people forgetting the valuable lessons they learned from their horrible failures during the previous attempt. The first phase being so mind-numbingly boring causes people's minds to begin to wander, they start jabbering on voice comm's about non-essential garbage just to pass the time. All of this acts as a distraction and then when they get back to the actual boss again they make all the same mistakes they just made.. and the process repeats.
This wouldn't be so much of an issue if the average player had an attention span greater than that of a speckled newt. Alas we are surrounded by so many amphibians.
Aside from that I have been grabbed by a claw mid pull and... ya, there is no fighting it, if that happens your off the edge, by no fault of your own, this fight is supposed to be a skill-check, if you allow something to occur during the fight that has no counter you turn it into a luck-check, and honestly there is already enough RNG in this game to choke a moose (Ayasuke's Wealth Management, LLC does not condone cervine violence). Same goes for any lag spikes you may have, if a lag spike rears its ugly head your done and dusted. As far as lag goes it will only get worse in the coming weeks, as more and more people unlock Cradle more and more instances will be open and we KNOW the more instances of a particular map are open the more lag those instances potentially suffer from. (srsly, its not a debate anymore so don't even try)
In conclusion I would like to see the claw grab disabled during push/pull. A campfire at the bottom of the elevator would be cool but I don't see that happening so at the very least speed up the mob spawn rate during phase 1, there sure is a lot of standing around waiting for them to spawn.
*edit* Oh, and Cutscenes... STOP WITH THE CUTSCENES.. for the love of all things good and wholesome in this world just make them stop!!!
If you didn't figure out how to survive the mechanic on your first few trys, that does not mean you are unskilled or unable to do it. I'd keep trying over the next couple of days until you get your first success at it.
I also asked around and got a few more tips, some of which aren't covered in those videos:
#1) The pull-push is around 5 seconds long.
#2) The innermost 1 quarter of the platform out of 3 quarters is where you need to be when the push happens. In other words, the closer you are to the boss when the push happens, the better.
#3) You also need to be running towards the boss when the push happens. If you just stand still during the push, you will usually be blasted off the edge even if you were in the right area.
#4) Some people use their stamina dodge as a way of resisting the pull or to quickly get into the right area before the push. This can be worth it but it is risky if you are a class with a long dodge mechanic (DC or TR). Classes with long dodge mechanics can easily dodge right off the edge by mistake.
#5) One of the safest methods is to try to stay near the center of the platform during most of the pull. You usually want to be closer to the outer edge when the pull starts and then let it drag you to the middle or a little bit past the middle. This will shorten the amount of distance you need to cover right before the push.
#6) Some classes can run faster than others. Make sure to take that into account when deciding how close the the outer edge you want to be when the pull starts. This also effects how much distance you can cover right before the push.
Here is a tip of my own:
When the push happens and I'm running towards the boss, I usually press my W/forwards key, let go of it for a brief moment, and then press it again. This usually brings me to a stop sooner when being pushed away.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
2) dont bother make mechanics when you dont " fix your relog exploit".
3) Make relog to take 15 seconds to happen during battle like nostura fight and icewind area!.
Thanks.
Personally I like to dodge (as DC) right up against the inner ring when the push is activated, releasing W, then holding it down again as soon as I get repelled. Sometimes the push seems to last longer or hit twice, so I don't let up completely until I'm sure it's over.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
(on a side note to the devs, it's generally better to fix an exploit people feel like they HAVE to use AFTER addressing the reason people are using it.)
And price of UES in the AH will stop the downward trend and spike higher in the short term. At least I was able to benefit from the trick by making some unparallel weapon enchantments with sub 400K UES.
All the videos and tips in the world aren't worth practice. But practice can't be done if people reach the moment of the practice thinking "omg here is the push/pull" then start freaking out about failing and of course just fail because they were freaked out.
Like this post says, a simple campfire on preview would make most people happy im pretty sure.
1: hand grab you while you resist pull-push.
2: if your character land after the final push near the edge your character acts like " the companion" and do a step backward on his own ( no conttrol at all from the player). That also happening in master spellplague against the nothic eye is like the character do not have balance ( now that is intentional or bug i dont know).
1) At the absolute very very least, make the cutscenes skippable.
2) Some means of practicing the push pull.
3) Campfire or just a restart at bottom of elevator. The elevator is just one gigantic cutscene.
At the very least add a campfire (or let Makos teleport us to the last boss from the start position) after you've cleared the elevator and chords once.
I'd say in every run we do we have at least 3 or 4 people who have to purposely try to die in order to resummon their companion and use a scroll to res. Feelsbadman