I have spent roughly 7x15 mins in the craddle (=7 times got to the pull/push phase,) still have no idea how to survive that. And I do not feel motivated to try even just once more. It did not feel manageable and I simple have no clue what more I could do to stay on the platform. I know that every time roughly 4 people did not get washed out, but I have no idea what am I doing wrong.
general feeling otherwise: Narrow space to evade red areas (in the final room - I was there on CW and he jumps quite far). Too many control effects that can go multiple times at once (got icy circle warning bellow and right after got caught by hand) and even the hand in pull/push phase.
Really, if you would give us at each successful completion of elevator part lets say 10 seals of brave (as that would definitely not ruin economy,) one could persuade himself "I am not just completely wasting my time", but you decided otherwise...
I have spent roughly 7x15 mins in the craddle (=7 times got to the pull/push phase,) still have no idea how to survive that. And I do not feel motivated to try even just once more. It did not feel manageable and I simple have no clue what more I could do to stay on the platform. I know that every time roughly 4 people did not get washed out, but I have no idea what am I doing wrong.
general feeling otherwise: Narrow space to evade red areas (in the final room - I was there on CW and he jumps quite far). Too many control effects that can go multiple times at once (got icy circle warning bellow and right after got caught by hand) and even the hand in pull/push phase.
Really, if you would give us at each successful completion of elevator part lets say 10 seals of brave (as that would definitely not ruin economy,) one could persuade himself "I am not just completely wasting my time", but you decided otherwise...
My general feeling as well. The elevator portion has been described as an extended 'live-action' cut-scene - so not popular at all. Once the mechanics are known, it's basically a time-waster.
The toilet rim, I gave it another few shots with my DC and CW - their dodges are similar. Found that dodging twice outwards at an angle, and then dodging inwards on the 3rd dodge helps me keep on the platform. Still, I am not a fan of platforming. I thought I was playing Dungeons & Dragons, not Super Mario Bros.
Besides this, too many times, I still see experienced groups need Scrolls of Life due to the one-shots. (Indeed, the pull/push can be avoided by intentionally killing oneself and then using a scroll once the phase is over). P2W.
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I said it when I first tried CoDG on Preview and I will say it again. The first phases are too easy - they are not of "end-game" difficulty caliber. The last phase (the push-pull) part is too hard - badly designed, harder for some classes than others, and really hard for players with above average lag.
The game plays a lot differently when you are playing from a different continent - or do they only want US players?
I have spent roughly 7x15 mins in the craddle (=7 times got to the pull/push phase,) still have no idea how to survive that. And I do not feel motivated to try even just once more. It did not feel manageable and I simple have no clue what more I could do to stay on the platform. I know that every time roughly 4 people did not get washed out, but I have no idea what am I doing wrong.
general feeling otherwise: Narrow space to evade red areas (in the final room - I was there on CW and he jumps quite far). Too many control effects that can go multiple times at once (got icy circle warning bellow and right after got caught by hand) and even the hand in pull/push phase.
Really, if you would give us at each successful completion of elevator part lets say 10 seals of brave (as that would definitely not ruin economy,) one could persuade himself "I am not just completely wasting my time", but you decided otherwise...
There is a way to avoid being pushed/pulled of if you face and move in the right way using dodge give me a tell ingame if you want @marnival and i will show you. Lagg can ofc still mess it up but if you know how to move and how to dodge nothing but lag buggs (yes there are several of them like boss syncing out etc) will get you pushed of..
1
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
1) Pull-push nothing to do how good or bad a player is it actually has nothing to do with the game.We are not playing crash bandicoot or tomb raider we are playing neverwinter. 2nd ) tiamat and even " EPIC" Demogorgon didnt have the rule : you died so you are out. That is silly. Everyone should have at least a 2nd chance to fight back.
3) If you dont want to remove the stupid mechanic at least give to the fallen a 2nd chance. So if you fall 1 time you can reenter if you fall and 2nd time then you cant reeenter. Add some indicators too like colors where should a player stand.
4) or remove the mechanic of the pull push and instead make larger the platform and put a lot mobs ( impossible to kill mobs that need control?) so every class-builds to be effective here and not just put single target and go kill.
1) Pull-push nothing to do how good or bad a player is it actually has nothing to do with the game.We are not playing crash bandicoot or tomb raider we are playing neverwinter.
Unless I am mistaken, I am sure the Module 12 dungeon is Tomb of the 9 Gods. And we raid(ed) it repeatedly.
1) Pull-push nothing to do how good or bad a player is it actually has nothing to do with the game.We are not playing crash bandicoot or tomb raider we are playing neverwinter.
Unless I am mistaken, I am sure the Module 12 dungeon is Tomb of the 9 Gods. And we raid(ed) it repeatedly.
Does that not make us Tomb raiders?
I'm pretty sure we're not until we can get character models with lips like laura croft.
1
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
1) Pull-push nothing to do how good or bad a player is it actually has nothing to do with the game.We are not playing crash bandicoot or tomb raider we are playing neverwinter.
Unless I am mistaken, I am sure the Module 12 dungeon is Tomb of the 9 Gods. And we raid(ed) it repeatedly.
Does that not make us Tomb raiders?
Pull push mechanic do not impove players gameplay is something not related to the builds and how you play your character. Since you mentioned and the tomb of nine gods neither partial paralysis is skill check when you can ignore that mechanic with specific class and paragon ( annointed champion).
Anyway the point is cryptic need to come with better choices " for mechanics" or to say it better with real mechanics.
I would like to see a camp fire before the final phase also. Playing with constant 300 ping makes staying on the platform tricky, having no lag makes it a bit easier. Companions falling off for no good reason is another big problem. A change will be welcome.
1) Pull-push nothing to do how good or bad a player is it actually has nothing to do with the game.We are not playing crash bandicoot or tomb raider we are playing neverwinter.
Unless I am mistaken, I am sure the Module 12 dungeon is Tomb of the 9 Gods. And we raid(ed) it repeatedly.
Does that not make us Tomb raiders?
It is module 13 (*cough 12c*) no longer The Tomb of the Nine Gods.
I also don't see 9 gods. I only see one big, crying disabled baby ...
Too dependant on lag to be enjoyable. Artifitial timesink created.. really needs some changes.
1st - Get a shrine down there please. No need to redo from start if fail at boss.. 2nd - Remove the pull/push mechanic. Get harder mobs, or buttons on floor or w/e but not as lag dependant as the one in atm.
Add 100% chance on carving too or increase the drop rate. Just finished my 40th run on my OP, and still havent got my carving. So thats so many legendary keys wasted. And yet i was planning to bring my other toons there. Another fiasco.
minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
No inclination to try it, I'm terrible at platform games, if I wanted to play one, I'd play one, no place in NW for mechanics like this, particularly in a laggy environment where it's completely impossible for several of my guildies whose computers/connections simply aren't good enough to ever get past the push/pull phase.
(Indeed, the pull/push can be avoided by intentionally killing oneself and then using a scroll once the phase is over). P2W.
You could try to use boss attacks to deliberately die but your group usually can't all do this at the same time. A few people will occasionally get lucky and die at the right moment but this is not viable as a controllable survival exploit.
Before anyone tries to correct me by mentioning kill commands or the options menu, I have the console command that allows you to kill yourself at will, it doesn't allow for you to scroll up, it perma kills you. Same with the options menu kill command.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
For anybody who doesn't yet know how to counter the pull-push mechanic, I have taken my list of helpful tips, extra info, and basic instructions on how to survive this mechanic and expanded it with new information. Granted this list isn't a substitute for trial and error but it should give you a thorough idea of what to practice:
#1) The pull-push is 5 seconds long. 4 seconds for the pull and the push is on the 5th second.
#2) When the pull is in progress, you need to be running towards the outter edge of the platform to resist the pull. When the push is about to start, you need to turn around quickly and run towards the boss.
#3) When the boss sinks down and his health bar disappears is when the pull is going to happen.
#4) When the push outwards is about to happen, the boss rises back up a little bit and lifts his head.
#5) The innermost 1 quarter of the platform out of 3 quarters is where you need to be when the push happens. In other words, the closer you are to the boss when the push happens, the better.
#6) If you just stand still during the push, you will usually be blasted off the edge even if you were in the right area. Make sure you are moving forwards during the push.
#7) One of the best methods is to try to stay near the center of the platform during most of the pull. You start closer to the outer edge when the pull starts and then let it drag you to the middle or a little bit past the middle. This will shorten the amount of distance you need to cover right before the push.
#8) Some people use their stamina dodge as a way of resisting the pull or to quickly get into the right area before the push. This can be worth it but comes with risks if you are a class with a long dodge mechanic (DC or TR). Classes with long dodge mechanics can easily dodge off the edge by mistake.
#9) if you are a class with a dodge mechanic and you dodge at the right moment, you won't get hit by the push outwards at all.
#10) When the push happens and I'm running towards the boss, I usually press my W/forwards key, let go of it for a brief moment, and then press it again. This brings me to a stop sooner when being pushed away and has saved my butt numerous times.
#11) Some classes can run faster than others. Make sure to take that into account when deciding what your pull-push survival technique will be. This effects how good your run is at resisting the pull and how much distance you can cover right before the push.
#12) When you are defeated but not yet dead, you cannot be hit by the pull-push at all. This means if you are down and the pull-push is about to happen, you should wait until after the pull-push has ended before using your scroll of life.
#13) Control resistance and control immunity have 0 effect on the pull-push mechanic.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
However doing this trail random is a pain. There are simply too many variables and every group performs different. Some groups spend insane speedbuffs stacking Insignia boni on top of ITF etc. make you run from the platform yourself, if you don´t take care. Some have bad ping, insane lags (experienced myself), some simlpy can´t handle that PnP and some get wrecked by that hand in Pullphase or are simply shot down when Atropal bugs out.
After a lot of runs I admit that a part of the problem sits in front of the PC, ignoring AoE, ignoring that Vortex/debuff, standing still not moving an inch. Some don´t spend any scrolls, ly on the ground cry for help. Some simply run that dungeon (voted for "experienced player") to be carried not spending one second in advance to inform themselves about mechanics, at least it looks like. That´s hard to accept for a player that wasted tons of scrolls to get it done.
Yesterday I was invited into a run 02:30 hours on the clock, many player with >50 death... at that point you should not waste scrolls any more aggreed. Next group we were done in 9min "2-Dive-kill". Cryptic should rethink this, maybe install a campfire at least and fix some major bugs or simply tone down that mechnic a bit, jump´n run is no focus in this game honestly. You can lift bosses HP and lower that pulll/push thing, get back to dps race, maybe more suitable for this game and playerbase Please ---> in time !
I know with my DC i can dodge right at the ledge and not go over. So don't be worried that you will over dodge juts make sure after the dodge you don't walk off the edge.
Yep, it’s a wonderful thing that you can’t involuntarily go over a ledge while dodging.
The only issue I run into is that, when party move speed is buffed too high, the tiniest pre-step can fling you off the edge even if you aren’t quite touching it. I’m not a huge fan of excessive movement buff stacking there for this reason.
I know with my DC i can dodge right at the ledge and not go over. So don't be worried that you will over dodge juts make sure after the dodge you don't walk off the edge.
Yep, it’s a wonderful thing that you can’t involuntarily go over a ledge while dodging.
The only issue I run into is that, when party move speed is buffed too high, the tiniest pre-step can fling you off the edge even if you aren’t quite touching it. I’m not a huge fan of excessive movement buff stacking there for this reason.
That´s one of my biggest problems too. Stacking speedbuffs sometimes make me feel like doing it first time, dropping, running too fast. Sometimes my runs look like this. 1. I got oneshotted carrying that cross on my head in the pullphase, waiting the boss to go down.. no he doesn´t go down but throws aoe at every partymember ... 10 seconds gone. I need to revive now otherwise I am out... in the pullphase, dead. 2. Awaiting the pull at the corner... omg a 50'' aoe simply was bumped on my head mmhh. The pull begins I run and get that knockback flying like a leaf in the inner circle, looks funny... but I don´t think it was. 3. attempt.. I am really pissed , the speedbuffs simply make me run over the edge I am done for today thx
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Scrolls of life should have a 10 minute cooldown or be one use per dungeon, or be removed entirely. The reason the devs need to resort to mechanics like the push pull to kill players is because players just ignore other mechanics and then scroll them when they die. If people actually have to learn when to dodge, these types of instant kill mechanics may be less necessary.
Scrolls is not the biggest problem, you simply get grabbed, knocked and oneshotted by running the "donut of pain". The boss throws aoe before he dives the second time. Sometimes he stays untargetable for >10 seconds throwing mud, then goes down. In between he: 1. grabbed one player awaiting the pull, kills him by that 2. puts that cross on your head = dead for everyone, except a tank. 3. Awaiting the pull you get that huge aoe at your place. If that happens during the pull you simply take of and fly away like a leaf in the wind, ignores block.
Sometimes the boss skips that "10-second-drama" and starts in a splitsecond the 2. pull, maybe simply to make you mad since he recognized you trying to help one of your mates out of that hand ... but tbh I think it´s simply a huge pile of mechanics overlapping in a not intended way, simple bugs.
The method Marigold @trgluestickz described is the one I've had the most success with. It's mostly fail-proof as long as Acererak doesn't take potshots or grab you, and the best part is that it works on all classes. Much recommend it to anyone having difficulty with timing their dodges/sprints.
(It will feel wrong the first time you try it, but don't panic!)
1
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Scrolls is not the biggest problem, you simply get grabbed, knocked and oneshotted by running the "donut of pain". The boss throws aoe before he dives the second time. Sometimes he stays untargetable for >10 seconds throwing mud, then goes down. In between he: 1. grabbed one player awaiting the pull, kills him by that 2. puts that cross on your head = dead for everyone, except a tank. 3. Awaiting the pull you get that huge aoe at your place. If that happens during the pull you simply take of and fly away like a leaf in the wind, ignores block.
Sometimes the boss skips that "10-second-drama" and starts in a splitsecond the 2. pull, maybe simply to make you mad since he recognized you trying to help one of your mates out of that hand ... but tbh I think it´s simply a huge pile of mechanics overlapping in a not intended way, simple bugs.
1) If you get grabbed during the push, nothing will save you. That is a bug and is not scrollable. 2) Tell a DC to use their brain and cast divine armour, you might find you actually live. 3) No clue what you are referring to here.
There is no issue if he starts the 2nd pull fast, just do what you did the first time.
Scrolls of life should have a 10 minute cooldown or be one use per dungeon, or be removed entirely. The reason the devs need to resort to mechanics like the push pull to kill players is because players just ignore other mechanics and then scroll them when they die. If people actually have to learn when to dodge, these types of instant kill mechanics may be less necessary.
1 scroll with a cool down well not sure about that idea i have had to use 3+ scroll just from one death as the aoe or lag would one shot me again before i could do anything not even able to dodge. Yet they really should give like a 3 or 4 second immunity when we use a scroll then that would not be so bad to limit its use.
Scrolls should not exist at all imo, but they will never be removed. They act as a, "oops I messed up, try again" button for bad players and mean you never have to learn the mechanics. I have ran cradle with over 600 ping, dodged the reds and not fallen off. If I can do it, so can you. Most of the time people die, this is why they die:
Step 1) Don't bother to move the debuff AoE away from the party. Step 2) Party does not bother to move outside of the debuff AoE. Step 3) Boss does the 5 small red circles and party doesn't bother to move out of those. Oh well, they died.
Its ok though, they got 2000 scrolls and they can just, "oopsie I messed up" button not dodging.
Comments
general feeling otherwise: Narrow space to evade red areas (in the final room - I was there on CW and he jumps quite far). Too many control effects that can go multiple times at once (got icy circle warning bellow and right after got caught by hand) and even the hand in pull/push phase.
Really, if you would give us at each successful completion of elevator part lets say 10 seals of brave (as that would definitely not ruin economy,) one could persuade himself "I am not just completely wasting my time", but you decided otherwise...
The toilet rim, I gave it another few shots with my DC and CW - their dodges are similar. Found that dodging twice outwards at an angle, and then dodging inwards on the 3rd dodge helps me keep on the platform. Still, I am not a fan of platforming. I thought I was playing Dungeons & Dragons, not Super Mario Bros.
Besides this, too many times, I still see experienced groups need Scrolls of Life due to the one-shots. (Indeed, the pull/push can be avoided by intentionally killing oneself and then using a scroll once the phase is over). P2W.
The game plays a lot differently when you are playing from a different continent - or do they only want US players?
I'll wait till next mod and new BiS gear from something like hunts or whatever.
Lagg can ofc still mess it up but if you know how to move and how to dodge nothing but lag buggs (yes there are several of them like boss syncing out etc) will get you pushed of..
2nd ) tiamat and even " EPIC" Demogorgon didnt have the rule : you died so you are out. That is silly. Everyone should have at least a 2nd chance to fight back.
3) If you dont want to remove the stupid mechanic at least give to the fallen a 2nd chance. So if you fall 1 time you can reenter if you fall and 2nd time then you cant reeenter. Add some indicators too like colors where should a player stand.
4) or remove the mechanic of the pull push and instead make larger the platform and put a lot mobs ( impossible to kill mobs that need control?) so every class-builds to be effective here and not just put single target and go kill.
And we raid(ed) it repeatedly.
Does that not make us Tomb raiders?
Since you mentioned and the tomb of nine gods neither partial paralysis is skill check when you can ignore that mechanic with specific class and paragon ( annointed champion).
Anyway the point is cryptic need to come with better choices " for mechanics" or to say it better with real mechanics.
I also don't see 9 gods. I only see one big, crying disabled baby ...
Artifitial timesink created.. really needs some changes.
1st - Get a shrine down there please. No need to redo from start if fail at boss..
2nd - Remove the pull/push mechanic. Get harder mobs, or buttons on floor or w/e but not as lag dependant as the one in atm.
Before anyone tries to correct me by mentioning kill commands or the options menu, I have the console command that allows you to kill yourself at will, it doesn't allow for you to scroll up, it perma kills you. Same with the options menu kill command.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
#1) The pull-push is 5 seconds long. 4 seconds for the pull and the push is on the 5th second.
#2) When the pull is in progress, you need to be running towards the outter edge of the platform to resist the pull. When the push is about to start, you need to turn around quickly and run towards the boss.
#3) When the boss sinks down and his health bar disappears is when the pull is going to happen.
#4) When the push outwards is about to happen, the boss rises back up a little bit and lifts his head.
#5) The innermost 1 quarter of the platform out of 3 quarters is where you need to be when the push happens. In other words, the closer you are to the boss when the push happens, the better.
#6) If you just stand still during the push, you will usually be blasted off the edge even if you were in the right area. Make sure you are moving forwards during the push.
#7) One of the best methods is to try to stay near the center of the platform during most of the pull. You start closer to the outer edge when the pull starts and then let it drag you to the middle or a little bit past the middle. This will shorten the amount of distance you need to cover right before the push.
#8) Some people use their stamina dodge as a way of resisting the pull or to quickly get into the right area before the push. This can be worth it but comes with risks if you are a class with a long dodge mechanic (DC or TR). Classes with long dodge mechanics can easily dodge off the edge by mistake.
#9) if you are a class with a dodge mechanic and you dodge at the right moment, you won't get hit by the push outwards at all.
#10) When the push happens and I'm running towards the boss, I usually press my W/forwards key, let go of it for a brief moment, and then press it again. This brings me to a stop sooner when being pushed away and has saved my butt numerous times.
#11) Some classes can run faster than others. Make sure to take that into account when deciding what your pull-push survival technique will be. This effects how good your run is at resisting the pull and how much distance you can cover right before the push.
#12) When you are defeated but not yet dead, you cannot be hit by the pull-push at all. This means if you are down and the pull-push is about to happen, you should wait until after the pull-push has ended before using your scroll of life.
#13) Control resistance and control immunity have 0 effect on the pull-push mechanic.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
There are simply too many variables and every group performs different.
Some groups spend insane speedbuffs stacking Insignia boni on top of ITF etc. make you run from the platform yourself, if you don´t take care.
Some have bad ping, insane lags (experienced myself), some simlpy can´t handle that PnP and some get wrecked by that hand in Pullphase or are simply shot down when Atropal bugs out.
After a lot of runs I admit that a part of the problem sits in front of the PC, ignoring AoE, ignoring that Vortex/debuff, standing still not moving an inch. Some don´t spend any scrolls, ly on the ground cry for help.
Some simply run that dungeon (voted for "experienced player") to be carried not spending one second in advance to inform themselves about mechanics, at least it looks like.
That´s hard to accept for a player that wasted tons of scrolls to get it done.
Yesterday I was invited into a run 02:30 hours on the clock, many player with >50 death... at that point you should not waste scrolls any more aggreed.
Next group we were done in 9min "2-Dive-kill".
Cryptic should rethink this, maybe install a campfire at least and fix some major bugs or simply tone down that mechnic a bit, jump´n run is no focus in this game honestly.
You can lift bosses HP and lower that pulll/push thing, get back to dps race, maybe more suitable for this game and playerbase
Please ---> in time !
The only issue I run into is that, when party move speed is buffed too high, the tiniest pre-step can fling you off the edge even if you aren’t quite touching it. I’m not a huge fan of excessive movement buff stacking there for this reason.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Stacking speedbuffs sometimes make me feel like doing it first time, dropping, running too fast.
Sometimes my runs look like this.
1. I got oneshotted carrying that cross on my head in the pullphase, waiting the boss to go down.. no he doesn´t go down but throws aoe at every partymember ... 10 seconds gone. I need to revive now otherwise I am out... in the pullphase, dead.
2. Awaiting the pull at the corner... omg a 50'' aoe simply was bumped on my head mmhh. The pull begins I run and get that knockback flying like a leaf in the inner circle, looks funny... but I don´t think it was.
3. attempt.. I am really pissed , the speedbuffs simply make me run over the edge
The boss throws aoe before he dives the second time.
Sometimes he stays untargetable for >10 seconds throwing mud, then goes down. In between he:
1. grabbed one player awaiting the pull, kills him by that
2. puts that cross on your head = dead for everyone, except a tank.
3. Awaiting the pull you get that huge aoe at your place. If that happens during the pull you simply take of and fly away like a leaf in the wind, ignores block.
Sometimes the boss skips that "10-second-drama" and starts in a splitsecond the 2. pull, maybe simply to make you mad since he recognized you trying to help one of your mates out of that hand ... but tbh I think it´s simply a huge pile of mechanics overlapping in a not intended way, simple bugs.
(It will feel wrong the first time you try it, but don't panic!)
2) Tell a DC to use their brain and cast divine armour, you might find you actually live.
3) No clue what you are referring to here.
There is no issue if he starts the 2nd pull fast, just do what you did the first time. Scrolls should not exist at all imo, but they will never be removed. They act as a, "oops I messed up, try again" button for bad players and mean you never have to learn the mechanics. I have ran cradle with over 600 ping, dodged the reds and not fallen off. If I can do it, so can you. Most of the time people die, this is why they die:
Step 1) Don't bother to move the debuff AoE away from the party.
Step 2) Party does not bother to move outside of the debuff AoE.
Step 3) Boss does the 5 small red circles and party doesn't bother to move out of those. Oh well, they died.
Its ok though, they got 2000 scrolls and they can just, "oopsie I messed up" button not dodging.