patcherrkmMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 127Arc User
I'm not typically a complainer and I don't like going negative. But let me say that if your goal is socialization then you're doing it wrong. For lure famring, the only time my guild groups up is for Trex farming. So if you use that model where "everyone gets a drop!" then I think you will encourage socialization. Instead the things youve done for the other ingredients dont really encourage socialization. They just make the game less fun and actually discourage socialization. In fact as an example, if I'm farming "orange glowy groups" of those little pigmy dudes, then none of my guildmates better be in my instance because they "steal" my drop. You've accomplished the exact opposite of your stated goal.
In short, use the Trex model of "everyone gets a fang" and you will get socialization. Otherwise you just don't understand your player and why and when we choose to group. It comes down to efficiency.
Sleek Pepper Midnight Express
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I bet it has nothing to do with socialization, it's a throttling mechanism, like the RNG on drops. It slows players down from completion. But instead of being blunt / truthful, and saying, "Look, we need to throttle somehow, and yet allow the very tenacious players to complete it first, it's either that or lowering the RNG even further, so we think this is the better solution" We have some imaginary socialization.
With the right reasons, the community can help offer solutions that will improve the experience, and will make a better game.
Unfortunately this is the very reason the items are unique and unstackable. As players we want to be as efficient as possible, so farming dozens of the same item and stacking them up to run a ton of hunts all at once is what we'd naturally like to do.
If you can only hold on to one lure and trophy at a time, you must actually hunt the monsters to clear them out. This accomplishes two things, it creates a loop that involves moving back and forth between the port and jungle, as well as various locations in the jungle more often; and it reduces the volume of hunt monsters being spawned and thus loot being dropped, which allows us to make the actual drop rates higher.
Now, that being said, because the items are mailable, it's frustrating, and that friction drives some people away or keeps some people from stacking up completely absurd numbers of the item which keeps the rarity up somewhat. As I mentioned they weren't intended to be mailable, but there was some concern from our software team on making an item unmailable that was still able to be traded, and because the issue was discovered too late we decided to leave it as is.
All of that being said, we're considering what changes we can make. Obviously we know there's a desire to be efficient and hold on to a lot of these, on the other hand we don't want to have to negatively adjust any drop rates.
And in reference to throttling mechanism will just say:
To be clear, I was responding on the first page primarily to inquiries about why trophies are not able to be sold on the auction house, and that absolutely is not about throttling. But more importantly, I do actually go on in the first page to talk about how it was important for us that the items maintain some value and that players feel motivated to trade them or hunt for themselves. In some ways, you can look at that as throttling. The main thrust of my statements was that socialization is not a "cover" for throttling. Making a social feature really was the core goal.
Part of the goal in having the items be unique was to ensure that the play loop for hunts involved a bit more travel than would be encouraged by allowing one to farm endlessly on a single rare spawn. The design is also for the open world, so we need to worry about keeping conflict over those spawns reasonable.
I certainly don't think the mark was hit perfectly, particularly with the mistaken ability to mail the lures, but hopefully you can understand why those decisions were made. And although it's enticing to say "let me play how I want to play!" when looking at something in a vacuum that would be more convenient, keep in mind that a well constructed play loop is what sets the pacing for an entire session, and helps keep things from feeling too overwhelming or tiring.
Even when just looking at a simple set of non-repeatable quests in a town, the loop of going back to town to get new quests sets the pacing, and it's easy to screw up. If you get a dozen quests all at once, that's pretty overwhelming and you don't feel like there's a natural rhythm or breaking point anywhere in your play. On the other hand, if you get a quest to go search for an item in one area, then when you get back, get another quest to go kill enemies in that same area, that's incredibly frustrating. (And yes, I am aware there are plenty of places where that happens in Neverwinter.)
I'm not typically a complainer and I don't like going negative. But let me say that if your goal is socialization then you're doing it wrong. For lure famring, the only time my guild groups up is for Trex farming. So if you use that model where "everyone gets a drop!" then I think you will encourage socialization. Instead the things youve done for the other ingredients dont really encourage socialization. They just make the game less fun and actually discourage socialization. In fact as an example, if I'm farming "orange glowy groups" of those little pigmy dudes, then none of my guildmates better be in my instance because they "steal" my drop. You've accomplished the exact opposite of your stated goal.
In short, use the Trex model of "everyone gets a fang" and you will get socialization. Otherwise you just don't understand your player and why and when we choose to group. It comes down to efficiency.
Sleek Pepper Midnight Express
You're correct that farming rare spawns other than Tyrannosaurus rex is not particularly conducive to grouping up. It was never specifically designed to be. Although I've been talking about the feature as a whole being one that was designed to encourage social interactions, I didn't necessarily say in what way every part of the feature should encourage them.
Although it's not necessarily a highly meaningful one, bumping into other players out in the world doing their own hunting is something that helps to keep the world lively, and just having people out in the zone farming encourages people to generally talk as it doesn't require a huge amount of concentration. Additionally, although most would view it as a negative interaction, bumping into other farmers and picking a new location or having a few moments of tension over competing is still a meaningful interaction.
But more than that, it was basically intended that players would more or less farm rare spawns solo, then team up to hunt the marks together, killing some Tyrannosaurus rexes and returning to town periodically to convert trophies into lures until everyone was out. That was the basic core gameplay loop for the design. It's not expressly that we thought it was the only valid loop, but it was the normative loop we wanted the system to naturally encourage. Naturally everything is going to change a bit when people get their hands on it.
Also it's not to say that we were specifically hoping to punish players that wanted to farm rare spawns in a group, it's that we wanted it to feel like something you could do in your down time between sessions of hunting the larger marks as a group. Out in the wilderness, on your own hunting some rare marks, gathering those materials perhaps for the weekend when you'd run hunts with your friends. As you said, players group for efficiency first and foremost. If we duplicated the trophies for every party member with every rare spawn, players would feel pressured to group up to be as efficient as possible, and again, we'd also have to consider how many more trophies were entering the economy as a result.
Unfortunately this is the very reason the items are unique and unstackable. As players we want to be as efficient as possible, so farming dozens of the same item and stacking them up to run a ton of hunts all at once is what we'd naturally like to do.
If you can only hold on to one lure and trophy at a time, you must actually hunt the monsters to clear them out. This accomplishes two things, it creates a loop that involves moving back and forth between the port and jungle, as well as various locations in the jungle more often; and it reduces the volume of hunt monsters being spawned and thus loot being dropped, which allows us to make the actual drop rates higher.
Now, that being said, because the items are mailable, it's frustrating, and that friction drives some people away or keeps some people from stacking up completely absurd numbers of the item which keeps the rarity up somewhat. As I mentioned they weren't intended to be mailable, but there was some concern from our software team on making an item unmailable that was still able to be traded, and because the issue was discovered too late we decided to leave it as is.
All of that being said, we're considering what changes we can make. Obviously we know there's a desire to be efficient and hold on to a lot of these, on the other hand we don't want to have to negatively adjust any drop rates.
Except for 1 problem. I now have a venom fang (or whatever it is called) in my inventory. I need a t-rex fang now so i go looking for 1 and i see another batch of scorpions... I have to leave those alone now because i literally can't get a drop from them until I find a bloody t-rex which might take many minutes. Then once I finally have the venom fang lure and i use that and I get a drop... now what. Do i just ignore all the venom fang dropping mobs for the next week until i get lucky and get the lure (multiple times) and get the other drop I need for the T2 lure? and then with each successive t2 ingredient and lure i complete there is less and less content that I am not locked out of doing.
My only options are to either be locked out of content or sell the stuff i have to people i don't trust in hopes that I can eventually reach a point where I have farmed X/N pieces and can buy the N-X pieces I need still. Secure trades are a thing but I hate trying to barter with jack asses who are asking for obscene prices because they think someone might just fall for their price, that isn't socialization, that is serial killer training. I could also work with my guild in the hopes that they might have the drops i need, but how do I compensate my guild mates? I am trying to get a t3 lure because _I_ want the drops. Also, i play at different times than most of my guild, that makes in person trades with them hard (especially since i am not supposed to be able to mail the items in this scenario).
The fact that you accidentally screwed up and allowed the trophies to be mailed is the only reason your hunt system is tolerable, and that is scary. What is more scary is that in the face of a lot of frustrated feedback saying "We don't like this, please make a few minor changes" you keep saying "but you are supposed to like it!". I can completely understand your original thought process behind how hunts were designed, and you explaining that thought process was very helpful, but now we want you to understand that the results of that thought process did not occur as you had expected and you need to make some changes.
By now I am sure that you could fix the 'bug' that allows hunt items to be mailed, but as you say, you have not done that in respect for the players who would rise up and eat you for it. So, make hunt items stackable to 2-3 and then fix the mailbox issue. That will make any really hard core hunt users very upset since they can have up way more than that currently, but it will make hunts way more enjoyable and rewarding for everyone else who doesn't have full VIP and over all participation should increase. The biggest reason this change would be good is that it would make hunts feel more organic and natural (within the context of an MMO). Stuff stacks and efficiency is a thing, when stuff doesn't stack it is unnatural and purposeful efficiency breaking is off-putting and there needs to be a very good reason why these things occur. Your players have overwhelmingly told you that your design reasoning was flawed in this case and changes need to be made.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
But more than that, it was basically intended that players would more or less farm rare spawns solo
This is actually why I loved hunts. I spent several (as in "way too many") hours, in-between dungeons or events, farming rare spawns solo, while simultaneously spewing large blocks of text all over guild chat and discord. This type of solo grind is fairly common in other games, but this is probably the first time I have seen a solo grind properly implemented into Neverwinter.
That being said, it wasn't perfect, as you already admitted. Although, I don't think it was that far off either. There were a couple glaring issues that made it immediately distasteful for many, but I have hope for the future iterations of the system.
What I liked about hunts:
Running around searching for shiny pokemon ... *cough* ... I mean rare creatures. Sure, many people will admit that it was obnoxious searching for some of the rare monsters in Chult, but seriously the feeling you got when you saw the green glow of a Venomtail or orange sheen of an Eotyrannus was pretty awesome.
Getting an item of value rather consistently over time. This may have had something to do with the non-auctionable nature of these items. No matter how value was retained with these trophies and lures, with the repeated offenses of previous mods that made most (if not all) items released in the mod either bound or worthless, this was a breathe of fresh air. We will see how long they retain their value though, since a good mechanic in module 12 means nothing if it is made worthless by a future module with no equivalent mechanic. It may not always be possible to make an item of eternal value though, so I would like to at least praise the fact that an item retained some value for the entire duration of module 12.
Using lures in a group. Yeah I really liked the fact that after many hours of goofing off in the jungle, I ended up in a big adventure train across Chult with four of my friends. Now to Hedetet! Now to Guy in the Bottle! Now to the Overweight Crab! Now to Split-No-Spawn!
Hunting T-Rex as a group. There were two versions of this: hunting T-Rex as a group to confirm the top DPS spot with the original T-Rex mechanics and hunting T-Rex as a group to make camping all three spots easier. Both were exciting, although the first felt like a waste for those who could easily win a T-Rex DPS battle by themselves, since they had to take turns on trophy drops. The second version is pretty awesome in every way.
So many miniboss fights! I love boss fights, especially ones with unique visual effects or mechanics. The first or second time I fought each hunt was a fun new discovery where I got to see cool new visual effects or mechanics.
What I did not like about hunts:
Getting super excited about finding a rare monster, but then finding out that it dropped nothing. Obviously based on what you have already said, if the rare creatures dropped trophies more often they would need to spawn less or drop less loot from hunts to compensate, but I really feel like it was a serious let down each time a rare creature didn't drop a trophy. As cool as it was when a group dropped 2 trophies at the same time, a group that dropped 0 still stung so much more. I felt like the time vs. trophy drop was usually fine (others will disagree very strongly with this), but seeing a rare creature that you have finally found and got all excited over drop nothing, it just feels quite bad.
The stacking/mailbox issue. I can see how this was meant to somewhat throttle the pacing and prevent burnout, however, the "intended" mechanic feels more like a quest requiring you to kill rare enemies of type A and B to complete a repeatable task. The issue is that it was presented to me as a player as an item. What do I immediately think about items? Can I collect them? How many can I use? Wait why don't they stack? Wait why can't I sell it? Why did you make this item different from all the other items? If the one-star trophies had released as quests to kill rare monsters for the materials to create a one-star lure, I doubt anyone would have complained about whether they stacked or were auctionable. Why would they? You couldn't trade quests before, and it ends up being pretty much the exact same mechanic anyways. Sure you can't trade your one-star trophies, but I would have been just as satisfied with this system if it only allowed trading the lures and two and three-star trophies, since those were the valuable part anyways.
Using lures in a group only gives one of each reward. Okay, this one felt super stupid when it first released. It has since grown to be an okay social activity to help newer players get some pretty decent gear. However, after everyone has everything, convincing people to come on hunts can sometimes be abysmally hard. Why? Well why should they? They are only awarded a totem or two for their efforts and maybe a piece of gear or two if the lure owner doesn't need it. The only reason people run hunts at this point is to get the next tier trophy or a +5 ring, neither of which will the lure owner give up easily. I would never want to trade my drop rate (as the lure owner) to give everyone a shot at their own drops, but the other players probably need some incentive to join in on a kill other than that they are your friends.
So many potentially interesting minibosses with the hit point pools of minions. Most of the hunts simply died far too quickly. I can't enjoy the artwork of a hunt if I cannot solo it, since everyone is capable of killing them in under 5 seconds. Some of the hunts even turn off all their cool looking visual effects if you attack them too early (Bachho). I love soloing bosses, but the risk vs. reward efficiency for bringing a group was far too high to risk losing the lure, since one death while soloing meant the loss of the lure, yet bringing two people generally meant you wouldn't get to see the actual creature before it died.
Okay, I understand chase items, and I am very glad to see a potential fix to a previous complaint I had about +5 rings being the current chase items, so I will just leave this complaint pretty much out. Kudos on the change to +4 rings that makes +5 rings a decent chase item, rather than a build-altering super item.
Post edited by darthtzarr on
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
@asterdahl the reason for me to want the trophy/hunts to be stackable is so i can farm trophy peacefully, t2 i will needa party to help me kill hunts t2, t3 same way(thtats how i socialise in game), without the stackable option i simply stopped farming for hunts, the risk of getting scammed on an exchange in this game is so crazy, that i dont want to get my farm time wasted with scammers steal hour of my farming time.
If you can only hold on to one lure and trophy at a time, you must actually hunt the monsters to clear them out. This accomplishes two things, it creates a loop that involves moving back and forth between the port and jungle, as well as various locations in the jungle more often; and it reduces the volume of hunt monsters being spawned and thus loot being dropped, which allows us to make the actual drop rates higher.
So once again you don't care about the player's experience. We DO NOT WANT to spend endless time looping between the Jungle and the Port. We DO NOT WANT, as others said, not being able to kill another group of Venomtail while hunting T-Rex, just because we already have one poison in our inv. This is essentially the reason lots of people think you did it only to sell VIP. Because the laïus about socializing doesn't make sense, but the mailbox and bank summoning parts of VIP do. This game is already hugely time consuming, because we have lots of things to do. Hunts take more time than everything else combined, with a system players hate. Why don't you want to recognize that your idea of game design doesn't work? It's good to test new things, new mechanics, i'm all for it! But if it doesn't work, just let it go. Change the system into a more friendly one.
By the way, actual drop rates higher? I did several hundreds hunts, never got any +5. You don't seem to realize how much time consuming it is to do hunts, and gating BiS rings behind 4-5 layers of RNG is not what i would call a good game-design. Not at all.
But more than that, it was basically intended that players would more or less farm rare spawns solo, then team up to hunt the marks together, killing some Tyrannosaurus rexes
Well, here is a news flash for you @asterdahl - this is exactly what we do, but the only reason it sort-of works is because the trophies can be mailed.
Just think about it - what would happen if the T-Rex trophies were not mailable? You get together a group of, say 10-12 people for hunting T-Rex. Then you spend some time getting everyone into the same instance and split into three subgroups, each covering one of the three spawn locations. If a regular T. appears, the group there kills it. If a T-Rex appears, it is announced and the other two groups rush over and the T-Rex is killed and everyone gets a fang.
Today we can summon mailboxes, send the fangs and start the process over. Not ideal, but it is tolerable. If we could not mail the fangs, everyone would have to rush back to town and buy lures. Then what? Well, if people have run out of the other trophies (so they could not buy lures), they have no reason to continue hunting T-Rex, so you would lose some of the people in the group after each kill. Then you would have to go through the hassle of getting new people for the group and getting everybody back into the same instance.
It would be a horrendous pain - a serious waste of time and I am pretty certain that many players, myself included would simply boycott hunts altogether, except for the minimum required to complete the campaign.
I would also like to use the opportunity to remind you that frustrated and annoyed players are not likely to play as much, or spend as much money as happy, motivated ones.
Seriously.
Admit you made a mistake and allow the trophies to stack - you can continue to keep lures unique and unstackable for all I care - it's not a big deal in comparison, but stackable trophies would help with fixing one of the problems with the hunts.
We do get good new features, but far too often we see really bad design decisions and an extreme reluctance to fix the issues
The Stronghold Marauders could have become something like the Dragonflight event, but instead it is something that nobody does more than once per week, and only for the first 5 waves.
The Random Queues are pretty much a failure from the perspective of many players and have had a very negative effect on guild activity among other things.
The Hunts could have been a fun activity, but are generally considered no more than "tolerable".
I am not including unpopular decisions like the Bonding runestone changes in the list of failures, as I will (grudgingly) accept that it was necessary, but those three items I listed above could all have been implemented in a slightly different way - many players made specific suggestions on how to make them better or more fun but we were ignored.
It is not to late to fix things, but if you do nothing, you might be facing a very rapid decline in player numbers later this year (not going into details why, as discussion of other games is not appropriate on this forum).
i usually never post in suggestion or forums anymore to devs as it tends to be ignored so why bother but seeing how a dev responded here i'll take my chances one more time and hoping not to be slapped in the face by getting ignored
what was said about hunts all have it's trues and falses now as a player who started with this mechanic as soon as mod launched let me tell you my experience / opinion
1) at start of mod i made party of friends and we ere intrested in the hunts as new experience and we all had fun so props there the mechanic itself is well disgned and does cause social interaction between players
2) after a while (2months) no one else bother going with me for hunts and the reason being slapped by RNG for not getting gear nor +5 rings after rigoriously farming for 2 months so everyone i ask says "man sorry i would love to but drop rate is very low i rather not waste my time" or "sorry man getting those lures to drop from rare spanws just needs a lot of luck and don't have that" and list goes on the problem we get at 2 the system is not rewarding for most players who would bother with it i mean 2 months of farming i should've had everything that drops but instead i had nothing and i even had to buyy last spawn gear (amic / corona) from other players in the game who farmed them
3)making the items stackble does make for more social interaction because that way the party can split the jobs on farming the lures so making party that way is much more efficient and let's face it why not give players what they want for once
what i wanted to say in a nutshell 1)hunt as a game design is excellent idea 2)Drop rates are very very very extremly and very LOWW 3)the lures should be stackable so players can farm more by diving jobs inside a party
I'm not typically a complainer and I don't like going negative. But let me say that if your goal is socialization then you're doing it wrong. For lure famring, the only time my guild groups up is for Trex farming. So if you use that model where "everyone gets a drop!" then I think you will encourage socialization. Instead the things youve done for the other ingredients dont really encourage socialization. They just make the game less fun and actually discourage socialization. In fact as an example, if I'm farming "orange glowy groups" of those little pigmy dudes, then none of my guildmates better be in my instance because they "steal" my drop. You've accomplished the exact opposite of your stated goal.
In short, use the Trex model of "everyone gets a fang" and you will get socialization. Otherwise you just don't understand your player and why and when we choose to group. It comes down to efficiency.
Sleek Pepper Midnight Express
I wanted to cyan text this because it's accurate. I notice big Trex hunt teams that form every night to farm Rex fangs. I don't notice big hunt teams that form to farm anything else. If that isn't a clue that you need to make all rares drop their trophy at 100% droprate then I don't know what is.
Draco Metallum GF - Tank stuff till dead Draco Metallum GWF - Hit stuff till dead Draco Metallum CW - Debuff stuff till dead Draco Metallum DC - Buff stuff till dead
The Chult campaign was very well conceived. There's a breadth of options a player can choose from.
- Farm Trophy/Lure > Sell or Use - Buy Trophy/Lures > Use > Keep Using or resell - Farm Crafting materials > Craft > sell - Weeklies only for Boon runs - Spam dailies - Farm Patrols for Treasure chest - Run Dungeon
The ones getting shut out are the bots. Bots can't sell and Bots can't farm either. The only place I consistently see bots are in the Batiri camps, most of the time healers, (going round and round no idea what for). I also see failed semi-autonomous bots dead on rare spots. So yeah, essentially shut out.
It's a player driven system. There's a special Chult "economy" sprung from these systems of supply and demand. I remember selling my lures/trophy cheaper and players getting stoked and excited killing these mini-bosses for their +5 rings.
I asked him "what does he get from these lures", he said "+5 rings". He said it's his favorite Mod. I agreed heartily.
And there's a degree of cooperation between players, shouting out the location of the T-Rex from their instance. Yes, there is socialisation and community from this. Or forming King of Spines for weekly HE or helping weaker players through ( the buggy, ahem ) House of Croc.
The downsides to Chults imo are:
- HE surrounding a base camp/quest hub (disruption to a safe zone). An HE nobody does due to higher difficulty coupled with anemic rewards. - Clumps of mobs surrounding mini-dungeon entrance. I understand it's anti-bot mechanism, but it's a tad overkill when there's literally 5-7 groups of mobs strewn along the path. - Mobs spacing along the trails. Newbies getting jumped by mobs, complaining but not realizing they are altogether avoidable if one needle through the spaces.
Overall, the system is amazing because it's player friendly and hostile to bots.
Be careful what you all wish for. If the these lures/trophies become stackable, the farming efficiency will drive the Devs to lower the drop rate, and at the same time all but ensuring bot competitors "camping" your rare monster area.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Be careful what you all wish for. If the these lures/trophies become stackable, the farming efficiency will drive the Devs to lower the drop rate, and at the same time all but ensuring bot competitors "camping" your rare monster area.
Being able to stack the trophies would save maybe 20-30 seconds per trophy, instead of summoning the mailbox and having to mail them. That's not really a significant increase in efficiency.
As many have stated already the RNG with trophy hunts can result in farming for an extended time (>1 hour) and ending up without a single trophy to show for.
Add a secondary drop to rare spawns, which have a 100% drop rate, e.g. drop of poison, damaged pincers, damaged claws. Add a merchant to the Port who exchanges a stack of twenty secondary drops (equivalent of ten rare encounters) for the appropriate trophy.
That way players have a small success with every rare spawn, and can accumulate trophies over time, even without getting the rare full drop.
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blindfury11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 52Arc User
Additionally, although most would view it as a negative interaction, bumping into other farmers and picking a new location or having a few moments of tension over competing is still a meaningful interaction.
How do you view a getting a tell from a player saying "@#$% you, I hope you die", when you kill a rare monster by mistake that they were farming, a "Meaningful interaction"? Because let's face it, when you spend hours killing the none-rare versions and someone comes along and kills the rare spawn that you have been waiting for IS a negative experience and frustrating, no matter how you spin it, and some players take it a step to far, making it worse. After it happens for X number of times for me, I just get frustrated and leave the game. Is this what you call a meaningful interaction? Driving your players out of the game?
To me, good game design doesn't revolve around spending hours to get something just to have someone steal it from you. We aren't in 1998 anymore and this isn't Everquest, why do we have to camp spawn locations?
keep in mind that a well constructed play loop is what sets the pacing for an entire session, and helps keep things from feeling too overwhelming or tiring.
That's too funny, this is exactly why I stopped doing the hunts in Chult. One night a couple months ago, after doing some hunts off and on with friends for about a month, I was in an instance basically by myself and I was killing all the venomtail/ Eotyrannus(sp?)/Smilodon spawns and their placeholders for about two hours non-stop and not one single trophy drop! Anyone who has done this knows what I'm talking about, basically the North East quadrant of the map, and I was in the zone killing them about as fast as they spawned. Just to be clear, I already knew the drop rate for the trophies was bad, I did not form this conclusion from just that two hour time frame. By this point I had already killed enough hunt marks to know the odds of getting anything good is low, especially getting the trophy for the next tier hunt, so that was it for me. I've barely even set foot in the Soshenstar River since, just a handful of times to run a couple weekly quests.
Post edited by manipulos on
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forumnamesuxsMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 490Arc User
The issue for me, is not the AH, it's the maximum of one-item in inventory!
Agreed. ...and the combined low spawn/drop rates on hunt creatures and their trophy drops.
The fact that it is just as anti social as any other open world activity, except maybe major HE's, where people kind of depend on keeping each other alive. Hunting T1 creatures is a competition. It's not social. It's "rush in to kill it before anyone else does it". Just like Sharandar quest. Just like Dread Ring quests. Just like Icewind Dale quests. Just like black ice farming. Just like Well of Dragons quests. Just like Vigilante quests. Just like Storm King Thunder quests. Just like black ic.. I mean voninblood farming. Just like Sea of Moving Ice quests. Just like (some) Chult quests. You are running an MMO where the fact that there are other players around, is inconvenient, to make it a whole lot more polite than I want to. Congratulations. If I were able to create solo instances on these maps, I would, because after having been HAMSTER in the HAMSTER by other player so many times, over such a long period of time, I have to admit that I've snapped quite a few times at people, for simply playing the game.
I just wanted to recap some of the thing players have asked for and are being shot down...
Listing trophy/lures in AH (Pretty much told this is never going to happen) increasing spawn rate of rare creatures (probably not needed if trophy droprate is 100% for all rare creatures) making trophy droprate 100% making lures/trophy stackable (Jury is still out on this apparently) increasing the droprate of +5 rings (probably not needed if trophy droprate is 100% for all rare creatures)
sorry if i missed anything. Some of these suggestions in a way are redundant. If trophy droprates were 100% we wouldn't really need increased spawn rates on rare creatures. And probably wouldn't need an increase to droprate on rings. Some changes have a domino affect on improving QoL.
Knowing that I'm going to get a trophy when i finally come accross that ellusive rare creature would go a long way towards enjoying the hunt system.
Draco Metallum GF - Tank stuff till dead Draco Metallum GWF - Hit stuff till dead Draco Metallum CW - Debuff stuff till dead Draco Metallum DC - Buff stuff till dead
I've done fang of dendar 6 times... nothing on drops but yaun-ti rings and ring of the curse bringer. I've done sirrush 5 times.... nothing on drops but +1 or +2 rings Ive done karkinos the crab at least 10 times.... got the tank bracers which I pass to me tanks alts... other wise nada/zip but +1 or +2 rings.
I understand a bad streak of RNG rolls, but come-on man. You would think a t1 hunt drop would have happened at at some point...
I'm not typically a complainer and I don't like going negative. But let me say that if your goal is socialization then you're doing it wrong. For lure famring, the only time my guild groups up is for Trex farming. So if you use that model where "everyone gets a drop!" then I think you will encourage socialization. Instead the things youve done for the other ingredients dont really encourage socialization. They just make the game less fun and actually discourage socialization. In fact as an example, if I'm farming "orange glowy groups" of those little pigmy dudes, then none of my guildmates better be in my instance because they "steal" my drop. You've accomplished the exact opposite of your stated goal.
In short, use the Trex model of "everyone gets a fang" and you will get socialization. Otherwise you just don't understand your player and why and when we choose to group. It comes down to efficiency.
Sleek Pepper Midnight Express
How my guild buddies and I do it is we all kill the same rare spawn at the same time but not in a group we have a very high success rate for example we normally have 4 to 5 people running round together and sometimes we get nothing but more times then none we end up with 1 or 2 drops out of that spawn. Its all based on RNG so therefore by adding more people to the mix your chances are better. And its great way to socialize while doing it.
*Sorry for bad english* You could increase the chance of drop for the nunbers of players in a party...more players on party more the chance of get a trophy from rare respawn..more the chance of get good loot from hunts and treasures..It will increase more our social connection than we can't stack or sell some stuff
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
The one thing I'd like to see change about the hunts system is to allow multiple lures in the inventory. Not in a stack of 99, but that you can carry multiple individual and identical items in separate slots (which would conserve the feeling that they are something special and keep them a pain for bag space so you won't be picking up too many anyway). It seems rather odd that because you are carrying a T-Rex tooth, you are unable to pick up another. The "unique item" designation just feels artificial and forced. It leads to gameplay where people use mailboxes and banks as workarounds, which is clumsy and spotlights the artificial nature of the limitation. If the goal is to capture a certain feeling of being a jungle hunter, it seems odd to have the USPS required as a constant presence in the jungle.
like 10 of each(20 if not pushing to hard the idea xd)
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
The one thing I'd like to see change about the hunts system is to allow multiple lures in the inventory.
Well, being able to stack lures is not a big deal for me ... I don't need to stack 99 lures to summon a specific critter and kill it 99 times in a row...I'll be happy to make one lure of each kind, and run around the map, killing all of them once.
No, what I want is for the trophies to be stackable....that would just reduce the mailbox hassle we have to go through right now.
To add to the discussion, I completed the Chult campaign, killed hunt mark after hunt mark until I finally got my T3 lure, killed KOS (three times) and got my Rex Amiculum. Now I don't go there unless to help a friend.
Why? Because I only wanted the Rex Amiculum and two +5 rings. And I farmed hard for those over many weeks. The layers of RNG are terrible. And as others have pointed out, you spend two hours farming spawn points in a near empty instance and some jerk shows up and kills your rare spawn, drops a mailbox and then you start hurling abuse. This is not socialisation. Nor is it social.
And regarding the multi level RNG layers, honestly, I don't know how to convey the useless empty feeling you have after weeks of farming trophies, doing hundreds of T1 hunts, dozens and dozens of T2 hunts to get no T3 trophies. Guildies see that I have the Rex Amiculum and ask for my help in doing hunts, I want to tell them to give up, it's not worth it. But I don't, I help them. They give up of their own volition. And seriously, Primal gear is easier to get. When you have a strong Alliance/Guild that can help in doing T9G runs.... tbc.
I'm not interested in the enforced socialisation, I did the majority of Chult solo including the T1 hunts and T-Rex's and weeklies (excluding KOS). I took guildies/alliance friends on the Hunts so they could get 480 gear when I was farming for T2/T3 trophies. But I recruited them from friends I already have in our Guild/Alliance. Friends made through doing Dragon Flights and Influence runs. So if I want social activity I call a Dragon Flight or do an Influence run. Our guild and alliance are very active, we are active on TS (Guild and Alliance) and quite frankly, Hunts are not a big social interaction point for us. On TS and in chat we will help lower geared players in Chult when asked to help, as we do in every existing campaign. This isn't something the Hunts have helped with.
The correct target if you want Social Interaction is the Guild and the Alliance quests. That is what a Guild and an Alliance are, a Socially Interactive group of players. That is why the Marauders event was created I am sure, even though it is hopeless really, it does create a large socially interactive group - once a week per toon. Dragon Flights are excellent for social interaction, but should be made more valuable. Make the dragonflight fangs and strongbox of the dragonflight trade-able for vouchers? The protector seals is fine but not really that worthwhile. Make the Marauders a daily rather than weekly cap, drop the Influence gained to 200 per day per gate and have it only available at one gate, until you have 20 players on the map, then 40 players to unlock all three gates for potentially a full 600 influence per day. Then check out your Social Interaction and the strength of your Guild and Alliance.
Summary: Am I going to farm the hunts in Mod 13? No. Will I increase my social interaction because of Hunts? No. Will I help others to do hunts? Only if they are in my Guild/Alliance. Where should attention be focused if you want social interaction? Guilds and Alliance.
Thanks, 15K SW main, 13K GF Alt (that can almost out DPS my SW - another ridiculous issue covered in other threads)
> @trevor#8542 said: kill the same rare spawn at the same time but not in a group we have a very high success rate for example we normally have 4 to 5 people running round together and sometimes we get nothing but more times then none we end up with 1 or 2 drops out of that spawn. Its all based on RNG so therefore by adding more people to the mix your chances are better. And its great way to socialize while doing it.
Do you mean you kill the rare spawn as a group but you are not in party together? Because if you are in party I would have to disagree with your statement. We run in a full party and we get nothing 9 times out of 10.
Comments
In short, use the Trex model of "everyone gets a fang" and you will get socialization. Otherwise you just don't understand your player and why and when we choose to group. It comes down to efficiency.
Sleek Pepper
Midnight Express
"I told you so"
And for the person who clicked disagree:
bon appetit
Part of the goal in having the items be unique was to ensure that the play loop for hunts involved a bit more travel than would be encouraged by allowing one to farm endlessly on a single rare spawn. The design is also for the open world, so we need to worry about keeping conflict over those spawns reasonable.
I certainly don't think the mark was hit perfectly, particularly with the mistaken ability to mail the lures, but hopefully you can understand why those decisions were made. And although it's enticing to say "let me play how I want to play!" when looking at something in a vacuum that would be more convenient, keep in mind that a well constructed play loop is what sets the pacing for an entire session, and helps keep things from feeling too overwhelming or tiring.
Even when just looking at a simple set of non-repeatable quests in a town, the loop of going back to town to get new quests sets the pacing, and it's easy to screw up. If you get a dozen quests all at once, that's pretty overwhelming and you don't feel like there's a natural rhythm or breaking point anywhere in your play. On the other hand, if you get a quest to go search for an item in one area, then when you get back, get another quest to go kill enemies in that same area, that's incredibly frustrating. (And yes, I am aware there are plenty of places where that happens in Neverwinter.) You're correct that farming rare spawns other than Tyrannosaurus rex is not particularly conducive to grouping up. It was never specifically designed to be. Although I've been talking about the feature as a whole being one that was designed to encourage social interactions, I didn't necessarily say in what way every part of the feature should encourage them.
Although it's not necessarily a highly meaningful one, bumping into other players out in the world doing their own hunting is something that helps to keep the world lively, and just having people out in the zone farming encourages people to generally talk as it doesn't require a huge amount of concentration. Additionally, although most would view it as a negative interaction, bumping into other farmers and picking a new location or having a few moments of tension over competing is still a meaningful interaction.
But more than that, it was basically intended that players would more or less farm rare spawns solo, then team up to hunt the marks together, killing some Tyrannosaurus rexes and returning to town periodically to convert trophies into lures until everyone was out. That was the basic core gameplay loop for the design. It's not expressly that we thought it was the only valid loop, but it was the normative loop we wanted the system to naturally encourage. Naturally everything is going to change a bit when people get their hands on it.
Also it's not to say that we were specifically hoping to punish players that wanted to farm rare spawns in a group, it's that we wanted it to feel like something you could do in your down time between sessions of hunting the larger marks as a group. Out in the wilderness, on your own hunting some rare marks, gathering those materials perhaps for the weekend when you'd run hunts with your friends. As you said, players group for efficiency first and foremost. If we duplicated the trophies for every party member with every rare spawn, players would feel pressured to group up to be as efficient as possible, and again, we'd also have to consider how many more trophies were entering the economy as a result.
My only options are to either be locked out of content or sell the stuff i have to people i don't trust in hopes that I can eventually reach a point where I have farmed X/N pieces and can buy the N-X pieces I need still. Secure trades are a thing but I hate trying to barter with jack asses who are asking for obscene prices because they think someone might just fall for their price, that isn't socialization, that is serial killer training. I could also work with my guild in the hopes that they might have the drops i need, but how do I compensate my guild mates? I am trying to get a t3 lure because _I_ want the drops. Also, i play at different times than most of my guild, that makes in person trades with them hard (especially since i am not supposed to be able to mail the items in this scenario).
The fact that you accidentally screwed up and allowed the trophies to be mailed is the only reason your hunt system is tolerable, and that is scary. What is more scary is that in the face of a lot of frustrated feedback saying "We don't like this, please make a few minor changes" you keep saying "but you are supposed to like it!". I can completely understand your original thought process behind how hunts were designed, and you explaining that thought process was very helpful, but now we want you to understand that the results of that thought process did not occur as you had expected and you need to make some changes.
By now I am sure that you could fix the 'bug' that allows hunt items to be mailed, but as you say, you have not done that in respect for the players who would rise up and eat you for it. So, make hunt items stackable to 2-3 and then fix the mailbox issue. That will make any really hard core hunt users very upset since they can have up way more than that currently, but it will make hunts way more enjoyable and rewarding for everyone else who doesn't have full VIP and over all participation should increase. The biggest reason this change would be good is that it would make hunts feel more organic and natural (within the context of an MMO). Stuff stacks and efficiency is a thing, when stuff doesn't stack it is unnatural and purposeful efficiency breaking is off-putting and there needs to be a very good reason why these things occur. Your players have overwhelmingly told you that your design reasoning was flawed in this case and changes need to be made.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
That being said, it wasn't perfect, as you already admitted. Although, I don't think it was that far off either. There were a couple glaring issues that made it immediately distasteful for many, but I have hope for the future iterations of the system.
What I liked about hunts:
- Running around searching for shiny pokemon ... *cough* ... I mean rare creatures. Sure, many people will admit that it was obnoxious searching for some of the rare monsters in Chult, but seriously the feeling you got when you saw the green glow of a Venomtail or orange sheen of an Eotyrannus was pretty awesome.
- Getting an item of value rather consistently over time. This may have had something to do with the non-auctionable nature of these items. No matter how value was retained with these trophies and lures, with the repeated offenses of previous mods that made most (if not all) items released in the mod either bound or worthless, this was a breathe of fresh air. We will see how long they retain their value though, since a good mechanic in module 12 means nothing if it is made worthless by a future module with no equivalent mechanic. It may not always be possible to make an item of eternal value though, so I would like to at least praise the fact that an item retained some value for the entire duration of module 12.
- Using lures in a group. Yeah I really liked the fact that after many hours of goofing off in the jungle, I ended up in a big adventure train across Chult with four of my friends. Now to Hedetet! Now to Guy in the Bottle! Now to the Overweight Crab! Now to Split-No-Spawn!
- Hunting T-Rex as a group. There were two versions of this: hunting T-Rex as a group to confirm the top DPS spot with the original T-Rex mechanics and hunting T-Rex as a group to make camping all three spots easier. Both were exciting, although the first felt like a waste for those who could easily win a T-Rex DPS battle by themselves, since they had to take turns on trophy drops. The second version is pretty awesome in every way.
- So many miniboss fights! I love boss fights, especially ones with unique visual effects or mechanics. The first or second time I fought each hunt was a fun new discovery where I got to see cool new visual effects or mechanics.
What I did not like about hunts:Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
By the way, actual drop rates higher? I did several hundreds hunts, never got any +5. You don't seem to realize how much time consuming it is to do hunts, and gating BiS rings behind 4-5 layers of RNG is not what i would call a good game-design. Not at all.
Just think about it - what would happen if the T-Rex trophies were not mailable? You get together a group of, say 10-12 people for hunting T-Rex. Then you spend some time getting everyone into the same instance and split into three subgroups, each covering one of the three spawn locations. If a regular T. appears, the group there kills it. If a T-Rex appears, it is announced and the other two groups rush over and the T-Rex is killed and everyone gets a fang.
Today we can summon mailboxes, send the fangs and start the process over. Not ideal, but it is tolerable. If we could not mail the fangs, everyone would have to rush back to town and buy lures. Then what? Well, if people have run out of the other trophies (so they could not buy lures), they have no reason to continue hunting T-Rex, so you would lose some of the people in the group after each kill. Then you would have to go through the hassle of getting new people for the group and getting everybody back into the same instance.
It would be a horrendous pain - a serious waste of time and I am pretty certain that many players, myself included would simply boycott hunts altogether, except for the minimum required to complete the campaign.
I would also like to use the opportunity to remind you that frustrated and annoyed players are not likely to play as much, or spend as much money as happy, motivated ones.
Seriously.
Admit you made a mistake and allow the trophies to stack - you can continue to keep lures unique and unstackable for all I care - it's not a big deal in comparison, but stackable trophies would help with fixing one of the problems with the hunts.
We do get good new features, but far too often we see really bad design decisions and an extreme reluctance to fix the issues
- The Stronghold Marauders could have become something like the Dragonflight event, but instead it is something that nobody does more than once per week, and only for the first 5 waves.
- The Random Queues are pretty much a failure from the perspective of many players and have had a very negative effect on guild activity among other things.
- The Hunts could have been a fun activity, but are generally considered no more than "tolerable".
I am not including unpopular decisions like the Bonding runestone changes in the list of failures, as I will (grudgingly) accept that it was necessary, but those three items I listed above could all have been implemented in a slightly different way - many players made specific suggestions on how to make them better or more fun but we were ignored.It is not to late to fix things, but if you do nothing, you might be facing a very rapid decline in player numbers later this year (not going into details why, as discussion of other games is not appropriate on this forum).
what was said about hunts all have it's trues and falses now as a player who started with this mechanic as soon as mod launched let me tell you my experience / opinion
1) at start of mod i made party of friends and we ere intrested in the hunts as new experience and we all had fun so props there the mechanic itself is well disgned and does cause social interaction between players
2) after a while (2months) no one else bother going with me for hunts and the reason being slapped by RNG for not getting gear nor +5 rings after rigoriously farming for 2 months so everyone i ask says "man sorry i would love to but drop rate is very low i rather not waste my time" or "sorry man getting those lures to drop from rare spanws just needs a lot of luck and don't have that" and list goes on
the problem we get at 2 the system is not rewarding for most players who would bother with it i mean 2 months of farming i should've had everything that drops but instead i had nothing and i even had to buyy last spawn gear (amic / corona) from other players in the game who farmed them
3)making the items stackble does make for more social interaction because that way the party can split the jobs on farming the lures so making party that way is much more efficient and let's face it why not give players what they want for once
what i wanted to say in a nutshell
1)hunt as a game design is excellent idea
2)Drop rates are very very very extremly and very LOWW
3)the lures should be stackable so players can farm more by diving jobs inside a party
Draco Metallum GWF - Hit stuff till dead
Draco Metallum CW - Debuff stuff till dead
Draco Metallum DC - Buff stuff till dead
- Farm Trophy/Lure > Sell or Use
- Buy Trophy/Lures > Use > Keep Using or resell
- Farm Crafting materials > Craft > sell
- Weeklies only for Boon runs
- Spam dailies
- Farm Patrols for Treasure chest
- Run Dungeon
The ones getting shut out are the bots. Bots can't sell and Bots can't farm either. The only place I consistently see bots are in the Batiri camps, most of the time healers, (going round and round no idea what for). I also see failed semi-autonomous bots dead on rare spots. So yeah, essentially shut out.
It's a player driven system. There's a special Chult "economy" sprung from these systems of supply and demand. I remember selling my lures/trophy cheaper and players getting stoked and excited killing these mini-bosses for their +5 rings.
I asked him "what does he get from these lures", he said "+5 rings". He said it's his favorite Mod. I agreed heartily.
And there's a degree of cooperation between players, shouting out the location of the T-Rex from their instance. Yes, there is socialisation and community from this. Or forming King of Spines for weekly HE or helping weaker players through ( the buggy, ahem ) House of Croc.
The downsides to Chults imo are:
- HE surrounding a base camp/quest hub (disruption to a safe zone). An HE nobody does due to higher difficulty coupled with anemic rewards.
- Clumps of mobs surrounding mini-dungeon entrance. I understand it's anti-bot mechanism, but it's a tad overkill when there's literally 5-7 groups of mobs strewn along the path.
- Mobs spacing along the trails. Newbies getting jumped by mobs, complaining but not realizing they are altogether avoidable
if one needle through the spaces.
Overall, the system is amazing because it's player friendly and hostile to bots.
Be careful what you all wish for. If the these lures/trophies become stackable, the farming efficiency will drive the Devs to lower the drop rate, and at the same time all but ensuring bot competitors "camping" your rare monster area.
Add a secondary drop to rare spawns, which have a 100% drop rate, e.g. drop of poison, damaged pincers, damaged claws. Add a merchant to the Port who exchanges a stack of twenty secondary drops (equivalent of ten rare encounters) for the appropriate trophy.
That way players have a small success with every rare spawn, and can accumulate trophies over time, even without getting the rare full drop.
How do you view a getting a tell from a player saying "@#$% you, I hope you die", when you kill a rare monster by mistake that they were farming, a "Meaningful interaction"? Because let's face it, when you spend hours killing the none-rare versions and someone comes along and kills the rare spawn that you have been waiting for IS a negative experience and frustrating, no matter how you spin it, and some players take it a step to far, making it worse. After it happens for X number of times for me, I just get frustrated and leave the game. Is this what you call a meaningful interaction? Driving your players out of the game?
To me, good game design doesn't revolve around spending hours to get something just to have someone steal it from you. We aren't in 1998 anymore and this isn't Everquest, why do we have to camp spawn locations?
...and the combined low spawn/drop rates on hunt creatures and their trophy drops.
The fact that it is just as anti social as any other open world activity, except maybe major HE's, where people kind of depend on keeping each other alive.
Hunting T1 creatures is a competition. It's not social. It's "rush in to kill it before anyone else does it".
Just like Sharandar quest. Just like Dread Ring quests. Just like Icewind Dale quests. Just like black ice farming. Just like Well of Dragons quests. Just like Vigilante quests. Just like Storm King Thunder quests. Just like black ic.. I mean voninblood farming. Just like Sea of Moving Ice quests. Just like (some) Chult quests.
You are running an MMO where the fact that there are other players around, is inconvenient, to make it a whole lot more polite than I want to. Congratulations.
If I were able to create solo instances on these maps, I would, because after having been HAMSTER in the HAMSTER by other player so many times, over such a long period of time, I have to admit that I've snapped quite a few times at people, for simply playing the game.
Listing trophy/lures in AH (Pretty much told this is never going to happen)
increasing spawn rate of rare creatures (probably not needed if trophy droprate is 100% for all rare creatures)
making trophy droprate 100%
making lures/trophy stackable (Jury is still out on this apparently)
increasing the droprate of +5 rings (probably not needed if trophy droprate is 100% for all rare creatures)
sorry if i missed anything. Some of these suggestions in a way are redundant. If trophy droprates were 100% we wouldn't really need increased spawn rates on rare creatures. And probably wouldn't need an increase to droprate on rings. Some changes have a domino affect on improving QoL.
Knowing that I'm going to get a trophy when i finally come accross that ellusive rare creature would go a long way towards enjoying the hunt system.
Draco Metallum GWF - Hit stuff till dead
Draco Metallum CW - Debuff stuff till dead
Draco Metallum DC - Buff stuff till dead
I've done fang of dendar 6 times... nothing on drops but yaun-ti rings and ring of the curse bringer.
I've done sirrush 5 times.... nothing on drops but +1 or +2 rings
Ive done karkinos the crab at least 10 times.... got the tank bracers which I pass to me tanks alts... other wise nada/zip but +1 or +2 rings.
I understand a bad streak of RNG rolls, but come-on man. You would think a t1 hunt drop would have happened at at some point...
-- sigh --
You could increase the chance of drop for the nunbers of players in a party...more players on party more the chance of get a trophy from rare respawn..more the chance of get good loot from hunts and treasures..It will increase more our social connection than we can't stack or sell some stuff
No, what I want is for the trophies to be stackable....that would just reduce the mailbox hassle we have to go through right now.
Why? Because I only wanted the Rex Amiculum and two +5 rings. And I farmed hard for those over many weeks. The layers of RNG are terrible. And as others have pointed out, you spend two hours farming spawn points in a near empty instance and some jerk shows up and kills your rare spawn, drops a mailbox and then you start hurling abuse. This is not socialisation. Nor is it social.
And regarding the multi level RNG layers, honestly, I don't know how to convey the useless empty feeling you have after weeks of farming trophies, doing hundreds of T1 hunts, dozens and dozens of T2 hunts to get no T3 trophies. Guildies see that I have the Rex Amiculum and ask for my help in doing hunts, I want to tell them to give up, it's not worth it. But I don't, I help them. They give up of their own volition. And seriously, Primal gear is easier to get. When you have a strong Alliance/Guild that can help in doing T9G runs.... tbc.
I'm not interested in the enforced socialisation, I did the majority of Chult solo including the T1 hunts and T-Rex's and weeklies (excluding KOS). I took guildies/alliance friends on the Hunts so they could get 480 gear when I was farming for T2/T3 trophies. But I recruited them from friends I already have in our Guild/Alliance. Friends made through doing Dragon Flights and Influence runs. So if I want social activity I call a Dragon Flight or do an Influence run. Our guild and alliance are very active, we are active on TS (Guild and Alliance) and quite frankly, Hunts are not a big social interaction point for us. On TS and in chat we will help lower geared players in Chult when asked to help, as we do in every existing campaign. This isn't something the Hunts have helped with.
The correct target if you want Social Interaction is the Guild and the Alliance quests. That is what a Guild and an Alliance are, a Socially Interactive group of players. That is why the Marauders event was created I am sure, even though it is hopeless really, it does create a large socially interactive group - once a week per toon. Dragon Flights are excellent for social interaction, but should be made more valuable. Make the dragonflight fangs and strongbox of the dragonflight trade-able for vouchers? The protector seals is fine but not really that worthwhile. Make the Marauders a daily rather than weekly cap, drop the Influence gained to 200 per day per gate and have it only available at one gate, until you have 20 players on the map, then 40 players to unlock all three gates for potentially a full 600 influence per day. Then check out your Social Interaction and the strength of your Guild and Alliance.
Summary:
Am I going to farm the hunts in Mod 13? No.
Will I increase my social interaction because of Hunts? No.
Will I help others to do hunts? Only if they are in my Guild/Alliance.
Where should attention be focused if you want social interaction? Guilds and Alliance.
Thanks,
15K SW main, 13K GF Alt (that can almost out DPS my SW - another ridiculous issue covered in other threads)
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
kill the same rare spawn at the same time but not in a group we have a very high success rate for example we normally have 4 to 5 people running round together and sometimes we get nothing but more times then none we end up with 1 or 2 drops out of that spawn. Its all based on RNG so therefore by adding more people to the mix your chances are better. And its great way to socialize while doing it.
Do you mean you kill the rare spawn as a group but you are not in party together? Because if you are in party I would have to disagree with your statement. We run in a full party and we get nothing 9 times out of 10.