These players simply make running Gambit and other similar content frustrating.
You know what else is frustrating in gambit? Team of 4-8k ILs, who keep voteing yes... Have you ever been in 1h+ IGM run? I have... They should implement a way to replace the players who vote NO (give 'em rewards, and get new player in, like with Request reinforcements ), or something like that
No I have not. I know my CW soloing does not take 1 hour to get gold. Even with my DC it did not take 1 hour to get gold. The only character that may take a while to get gold in gambit would be my GF that is setup to tank and only tank.
No I have not. I know my CW soloing does not take 1 hour to get gold. Even with my DC it did not take 1 hour to get gold. The only character that may take a while to get gold in gambit would be my GF that is setup to tank and only tank.
This was with 8k sw alt, without bondings or anything.. It maybe could've been faster, we finished silver on 25ish minutes. but when those 'geniuses' voted all for gold, I decided to rest a bit.. second one on paingiver list didn't even come near my dps (which on this low alt was quite low).
Sometimes I regret that you can not shoot your own team Once, my 9k AC DC (without bondings) was the first on the paingiver list ... And the team voted for gold. I have 6/10 such runs.
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
My problem is not farming the loot but getting bad groups. I got all the gear I need from IG. I run it now for some treasure or for quick AD or because it drops for RQ for me. I typically end up with +4 pieces.
I have all of the various Fierce +4 between my characters or in one of my characters bank. In fact, I have two extra +4 necks and talismans. If I do get another +4 piece of gear it would be nice to get a ring. That is the lone piece of gear where I maybe able to get some benefit as I still am rocking the Dodd purple on my SW but that is my lone character still using that ring. All others are using gear from IG.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited January 2018
I always vote to stay to waste the afkers time and prevent him from Qing just like he wants to waste mine lol ya im fully geared and can carry any group to gold so that helps
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
What makes you think that is wasting their time? You're getting them better rewards than they deserve.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Most afks in IG happen after the first round as a protest to being railroaded into a gold run. I will afk if I see a carrier who can get gold in 10-15 minutes. Otherwise I leave.
Most afks in IG happen after the first round as a protest to being railroaded into a gold run. I will afk if I see a carrier who can get gold in 10-15 minutes. Otherwise I leave.
I was in IG this weekend. I was on my GF, which has horrible DPS as I am setup to max out my DR. I ended up with around 100 million in damage, if not more, when I left.
There were 3 player all below 8K IL and they all voted to stay. Me and the other player, both over 13K voted to leave. Prior to finishing up silver I stated, please leave after this. The three voted to stay. While writing in group I ended up dying. Than typed and asked why they wanted to stay. The lower players are, we can get gold. I'm sorry but all of there damage combined did not even equal 30% of my damage. The other player I believe was a healer and he was second and he AFK after bronze. His companion did most of his damage.
Than the lowest player said he reported me for trolling. I was trolling? I stayed with the group to the end and got gold. Report me for what, carrying him to gold. I only went into IG because it was my random dungeon. I did not go in for companion gear, I don't need it. I also asked at bronze to leave and silver. Yet they continued to push into gold.
The funny thing is, I did not even have my bonding equipped. Ugh....That took around 45 minutes. Definitely leaving Q next time I see this, I honestly don't have the time to sit inside IG for 45 minutes for a gold run, when it use to take around 10 with a pre-formed gold run groups last year.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
Leaving the queue/instance is not, and cannot be considered trolling by any stretch.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
When I RQ into IG, I take a moment to inspect the team. I make a note of the ilvl of dps and check for buffs/heals. If we start fighting and the first round indicates it will end badly I ask to vote leave. If they won't, I abandon.
The math at the moment is very easy: AD from run is ~9k including +3 gear salvage. A good Etos run takes approx. 8 minutes. So, if IG will end up taking longer than two Etos, RQ run isn't worth it. This math holds true for other RQ content, of course.
I ran a bunch of fast IG with 2 guildies last night. OP, DC, GF. Bronze took under 3 min. Silver approx. 8.5 min. so most runs took at least 10 minutes for gold. This is now my benchmark. If the first round takes 5 minutes, other rounds will likely take even longer.
I find it is better to afk then to leave. If the rest of the team is weak, they will wipe in a few minutes and you will get your AD. If the rest of the team is decent or good, they will be done in 15 minutes or so, well under the penalty time.
The only case you need to watch out for is the marginal team that can get gold but would take 30 minutes or more. Even then, there may be some entertainment value watching the chat.
If you stay to afk, make sure you die and wait in the traps room if you are a buffer.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
I find it is better to afk then to leave. If the rest of the team is weak, they will wipe in a few minutes and you will get your AD. If the rest of the team is decent or good, they will be done in 15 minutes or so, well under the penalty time.
The only case you need to watch out for is the marginal team that can get gold but would take 30 minutes or more. Even then, there may be some entertainment value watching the chat.
If you stay to afk, make sure you die and wait in the traps room if you are a buffer.
...and all you are indicating is that you are part of the problem.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I find it is better to afk then to leave. If the rest of the team is weak, they will wipe in a few minutes and you will get your AD. If the rest of the team is decent or good, they will be done in 15 minutes or so, well under the penalty time.
The only case you need to watch out for is the marginal team that can get gold but would take 30 minutes or more. Even then, there may be some entertainment value watching the chat.
If you stay to afk, make sure you die and wait in the traps room if you are a buffer.
...and all you are indicating is that you are part of the problem.
My part here is being held hostage by the gold runners. I fight back the only way I can, with the power of AFK!
I'm surprised IG hasn't become a leecher's paradise yet. I see people disconnect but never drop when they are supposed to after 5 minutes. As much as I would like to get kicked out of a gold run, I haven't gotten kicked yet. Nor have I seen anyone get kicked at all. I think the disconnect and kick is kind of broken in IG. Seems like the perfect place to leech.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
If you don't want to stay for gold and the majority votes for it man up and take the leaver penalty or stay and contribute.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
In IG, you can't vote kick as far as I can tell. No matter how long has passed, if you right-click on anyone, the option to Vote Kick just is not available (I can't remember off-hand if it is grayed out or if it is not available at all, but either way, you can't vote-kick in IG).
If you don't want to stay for gold and the majority votes for it man up and take the leaver penalty or stay and contribute.
There is no replacement in IG, so I am not blocking any one else from entering. And you cannot be kicked. It does not impact the gold runners whether I leave or go afk (though it may get under their skin if I end up with a +4 ring). So I see no reason not to hang around for the AD that is rightfully mines. To contribute would send a message that it is okay to force others to go gold. Any gold reward I get I will take as compensation for my inconvenience.
You probably should prefer me to afk. If I leave, there may be a second AD runner who may now take the opportunity to leave without a penalty. You might end up being two man down for you gold wipe.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
edited January 2018
All a player need do is right click on their own avatar and "Request Reinforcements".
No. I'd prefer any player to leave compared to an AFK. Period.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Reinforcement is not possible after the initial gate. We are stuck with each other.
Since gold runner are going to waste my time by forcing me into a gold run, I will waste their time by making their gold run longer and increase the chances of a wipe and leaving with nothing. I guess this evens things out. I'll just catch up on some TV while I wait.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
You aren't protesting anything. It is akin to a childish temper tantrum because you didn't get your way.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Passive resistance to the hostage takers. Every RQ AD runner who doesn't want gold should be doing this. Sends a clear message without yelling and screaming.
1) True AFK players who do absolutely nothing throughout the run 2) Low IL players holding those of us who are in IG due to RQ and simply want to leave after bronze
#1 is typically a botter #2 results in players going AFK as they simply don't want to carry a group through content.
IG should just be removed from RQ as it is a unique skirmish that awards companion gear and it should be updated with each mod so that the +4 companion gear it drops is always equal to the IL and stats of latest +4 rings; this would make IG worth running whenever new content is released that has better and newer gear.
Actually, lvl70 IG is run for many reasons including fleece, rp, xp, and salvage. I don't mind having it in RQ if some changes are made to combat trolling.
I think the simple solution is simply to not pay out AD for a failed run. This way, you must achieve bronze. Then, anybody who votes leave gets their due rewards and the q is refreshed with new players. Players await in lobby without a timer. If those who voted stay want to change their vote, they can do so until new players arrive. Or, offer an option to continue anyway and they can start fighting without reinforcements.
Actually, lvl70 IG is run for many reasons including fleece, rp, xp, and salvage. I don't mind having it in RQ if some changes are made to combat trolling.
I think the simple solution is simply to not pay out AD for a failed run. This way, you must achieve bronze. Then, anybody who votes leave gets their due rewards and the q is refreshed with new players. Players await in lobby without a timer. If those who voted stay want to change their vote, they can do so until new players arrive. Or, offer an option to continue anyway and they can start fighting without reinforcements.
Just a thought.
100% on board with this idea. It would definitely help those of us who get IG for our random and simply want to leave after the first run through it.
The AD on failure is a bit absurd, and probably shouldn't work that way. Although, it's worth noting that IG isn't the only skirmish that works this way.
An issue with that change @spelldazer and @"mebengalsfan#9264" is that if a player votes to leave in bronze or silver, the reinforcements will be forced to start in silver or gold. Now imagine the same type of player that would vote "leave" in bronze gets queued into a group currently running silver. They are going to be annoyed and vote to leave before gold, which will then leave players jumping into the gold runs. This will make anyone trying to make a gold run in a pug queue take forever, and even the players that would all normally vote to leave could get queued into individual gold runs as players jump out of them.
If you want a speed run or a gold run, why not just grab 4 friends and random queue it with your group of 5 anyways though? You are able to random queue as 5.
designedbyrng#4319 you are right. Replacement drop ins might vote to leave and it would make getting gold longer/harder to achieve for those who insist on it. BUT, why is this a problem? It forces undergeared toons to think twice about forcing others to carry them, and at the same time lowers the risk of trolling/ hijacking while giving lowbies a viable way of getting gear. Also, in game design / psychology, there is something called completion compulsion. You get the first one for free and then feel compelled to get to the end. The game makes liberal use of this strategy. ;-) It is entirely possible that many players who drop into silver might feel like staying through to gold. It would depend on how good or bad the team is but I think my proposal *might* work better for all involved. Certainly in comparison with the current situation. Whether it is easy to implement depends entirely on how IG is coded. I have no idea.
The way that IG flows, all players pass thru a starting gate, and a brief timeout between each phase for voting, would require some serious structural change to implement a system where players can come and go. I would imagine this system would be a bit disorienting to newer players.
I actually have no problem with the current system as is. I always vote bronze. If I get dragged into gold, I afk and go do something else. My AD will be waiting for me when gold is done. No biggie. I see more bronze runners doing this now. So gold runners should be making the calculation in their head, what happens if they have to do gold under-manned. The smart ones ask up front to get feelers. The dumb ones rush to vote stay and wonder what happened when they wipe.
Comments
Once, my 9k AC DC (without bondings) was the first on the paingiver list ...
And the team voted for gold.
I have 6/10 such runs.
I have all of the various Fierce +4 between my characters or in one of my characters bank. In fact, I have two extra +4 necks and talismans. If I do get another +4 piece of gear it would be nice to get a ring. That is the lone piece of gear where I maybe able to get some benefit as I still am rocking the Dodd purple on my SW but that is my lone character still using that ring. All others are using gear from IG.
ya im fully geared and can carry any group to gold so that helps
There were 3 player all below 8K IL and they all voted to stay. Me and the other player, both over 13K voted to leave. Prior to finishing up silver I stated, please leave after this. The three voted to stay. While writing in group I ended up dying. Than typed and asked why they wanted to stay. The lower players are, we can get gold. I'm sorry but all of there damage combined did not even equal 30% of my damage. The other player I believe was a healer and he was second and he AFK after bronze. His companion did most of his damage.
Than the lowest player said he reported me for trolling. I was trolling? I stayed with the group to the end and got gold. Report me for what, carrying him to gold. I only went into IG because it was my random dungeon. I did not go in for companion gear, I don't need it. I also asked at bronze to leave and silver. Yet they continued to push into gold.
The funny thing is, I did not even have my bonding equipped. Ugh....That took around 45 minutes. Definitely leaving Q next time I see this, I honestly don't have the time to sit inside IG for 45 minutes for a gold run, when it use to take around 10 with a pre-formed gold run groups last year.
The math at the moment is very easy: AD from run is ~9k including +3 gear salvage. A good Etos run takes approx. 8 minutes. So, if IG will end up taking longer than two Etos, RQ run isn't worth it. This math holds true for other RQ content, of course.
I ran a bunch of fast IG with 2 guildies last night. OP, DC, GF. Bronze took under 3 min. Silver approx. 8.5 min. so most runs took at least 10 minutes for gold. This is now my benchmark. If the first round takes 5 minutes, other rounds will likely take even longer.
The only case you need to watch out for is the marginal team that can get gold but would take 30 minutes or more. Even then, there may be some entertainment value watching the chat.
If you stay to afk, make sure you die and wait in the traps room if you are a buffer.
No. I'd prefer any player to leave compared to an AFK. Period.
Since gold runner are going to waste my time by forcing me into a gold run, I will waste their time by making their gold run longer and increase the chances of a wipe and leaving with nothing. I guess this evens things out. I'll just catch up on some TV while I wait.
1) True AFK players who do absolutely nothing throughout the run
2) Low IL players holding those of us who are in IG due to RQ and simply want to leave after bronze
#1 is typically a botter
#2 results in players going AFK as they simply don't want to carry a group through content.
IG should just be removed from RQ as it is a unique skirmish that awards companion gear and it should be updated with each mod so that the +4 companion gear it drops is always equal to the IL and stats of latest +4 rings; this would make IG worth running whenever new content is released that has better and newer gear.
I think the simple solution is simply to not pay out AD for a failed run. This way, you must achieve bronze. Then, anybody who votes leave gets their due rewards and the q is refreshed with new players. Players await in lobby without a timer. If those who voted stay want to change their vote, they can do so until new players arrive. Or, offer an option to continue anyway and they can start fighting without reinforcements.
Just a thought.
An issue with that change @spelldazer and @"mebengalsfan#9264" is that if a player votes to leave in bronze or silver, the reinforcements will be forced to start in silver or gold. Now imagine the same type of player that would vote "leave" in bronze gets queued into a group currently running silver. They are going to be annoyed and vote to leave before gold, which will then leave players jumping into the gold runs. This will make anyone trying to make a gold run in a pug queue take forever, and even the players that would all normally vote to leave could get queued into individual gold runs as players jump out of them.
If you want a speed run or a gold run, why not just grab 4 friends and random queue it with your group of 5 anyways though? You are able to random queue as 5.
It is entirely possible that many players who drop into silver might feel like staying through to gold. It would depend on how good or bad the team is but I think my proposal *might* work better for all involved. Certainly in comparison with the current situation. Whether it is easy to implement depends entirely on how IG is coded. I have no idea.
The signpost bug would definitely need fixed before that could become a reality.
I actually have no problem with the current system as is. I always vote bronze. If I get dragged into gold, I afk and go do something else. My AD will be waiting for me when gold is done. No biggie. I see more bronze runners doing this now. So gold runners should be making the calculation in their head, what happens if they have to do gold under-manned. The smart ones ask up front to get feelers. The dumb ones rush to vote stay and wonder what happened when they wipe.