Feedback: Life Steal is mainly being used for soloing epic dungeons

ianthewizard2012 · January 2018

There are some videos which feature soloing epic dungeons. In those videos, with no exception, Life Steal is used as a huge source of healing.

With the said stat, the more damage you deal, the more healing you receive. And that makes Devoted Cleric and healer companions completely unnecessary. There have been some feedbacks pointing out that not many players are playing DC, and Life Steal might be one of the causes.

In leveling contents, players don't usually try to max out or better their Life Steal stats. In general contents of end game, Life Steal is not needed because mobs in those contents are relatively easier to deal with. So it seems that the only situation in which Life Steal is useful is soloing epic dungeons.

It's understandable that there are a certain builds that rely on Life Steal. For example, SW has such a build. But for SW, the function of Life Steal can be built directly into its specific feats. As for players of other classes who enjoy life-stealing, we already have Lifedrinker and Bloodtheft Enchantments for that purpose.

Life Steal stat being a thing means players can be fully self-sufficient and don't need healer classes, healer companions, Lifedrinker and Bloodtheft Enchantments at all.

In the light of the aforementioned phenomenon, Life Steal stat might need a reconsideration. Do we really need this stat?

schietindebux · January 2018

ianthewizard2012 said:
And that makes Devoted Cleric and healer companions completely unnecessary. There have been some feedbacks pointing out that not many players are playing DC, and Life Steal might be one of the causes.

First off , I do not care if player solo T1/T2 dungeons, maybe they are bored or can´t get into parties for Tong.
But DC unnecessary? Not many player playing DC?

DO DC is the best pick atm since you can run endcontent wit 10k IL and you will not weaken your party that much. Even a naked DO DC can buff a parties dps for the factor x 3.65
A lot of player switched towards DC class in mod 12 to run Tong, since their main can´t get in even at near BIS gear.
The main reason why it is like that, is the fact that a DC triples dps of other classes. The class is a catalysator for speedruns/high dps and heals are not needed and not wanted in most groups, simply because the healing that is done is buffed x20+ in those buffer-groups and by that every Devine Glow (even from a lowie DO-DC) instantly refills your HP pool.

If you would have said, no heals are needed due to actual megabuffs I would agree. If megabuff in terms of mitigation and dps would be tuned down significantly and the content readjusted, there might be a place for healer and there might be noone left out of content playing the wrong class not spending those megaton buffs.

micky1p00 · January 2018

ianthewizard2012 said:
There are some videos which feature soloing epic dungeons. In those videos, with no exception, Life Steal is used as a huge source of healing.

With the said stat, the more damage you deal, the more healing you receive. And that makes Devoted Cleric and healer companions completely unnecessary. There have been some feedbacks pointing out that not many players are playing DC, and Life Steal might be one of the causes.

In leveling contents, players don't usually try to max out or better their Life Steal stats. In general contents of end game, Life Steal is not needed because mobs in those contents are relatively easier to deal with. So it seems that the only situation in which Life Steal is useful is soloing epic dungeons.

It's understandable that there are a certain builds that rely on Life Steal. For example, SW has such a build. But for SW, the function of Life Steal can be built directly into its specific feats. As for players of other classes who enjoy life-stealing, we already have Lifedrinker and Bloodtheft Enchantments for that purpose.

Life Steal stat being a thing means players can be fully self-sufficient and don't need healer classes, healer companions, Lifedrinker and Bloodtheft Enchantments at all.

In the light of the aforementioned phenomenon, Life Steal stat might need a reconsideration. Do we really need this stat?

If you don't need it, please don't spec it.

You don't have a single clue about the end-game. Anecdotal examples from leveling content ? Really?
Conclusion that people don't play the single most wanted class in the game (DC) because there is life steal? Really?!
You saw a video of one use, so the conclusion it's the only use?! -- I saw a video of a drug addict use a needle, conclusion, needles only use is for drug addicts, solution, all needles must be banned and no longer produced. Screw modern medicine...

But please don't try to use Bovine Output excuses for your RP requests, some of us remember your request to change life steal name because it's the word stealing is evil, and you can't use it. So the evil dark enchantments, the brutal the cruels and the vicious that you wont use...

Please... Life steal may or may not be an issue, but at least bring valid reasoning to any proposed change, unwanted DCs is most definitely not one of those. And when your next propose removing a stat, think carefully how I'll be compensated for my guild boon investment, and my current life steal enchants.

namelesshero347 · January 2018

Have you done chult daillies yet? I'd imagine you won't last too long without lots of life steal. Even my DC use lots of life steal so I can spend more time dpsing the mobs instead of healing myself.

demonmonger · January 2018

> @spunkmeier said:
> And when your next propose removing a stat, think carefully how I'll be compensated for my guild boon investment, and my current life steal enchants.
>
> Did they ever compensate people from the time that regeneration was removed from working in combat?
>
> I know this was years ago but perhaps someone remembers if it was more than just a char respec.

I remember this.... I made a video about it.
I had boosted to 14000 regeneration maxing all regeneration artifacts. Then boom nerfed to not work in combat. No compensation was given.

As for lifesteal, it is my go to stat for all things.

Mobility power lifesteal.

Lifesteal should not be changed in any way.

plasticbat · January 2018

Many people play DC.
If it is not their main main, it would be one of their mains.
Many people would at least have a DC so that they can have the Sigil of Devoted.
Many use DC to go to TONG to gear their characters.
Many DC may not heal but they can buff/de-buff.

ecrana · January 2018

demonmonger said:
Lifesteal should not be changed in any way.

This sums it all up.

reg1981 · January 2018

When FBI dropped I worked on my DC and have used him ever since. Matter of fact he is one of my main characters and is the most demanded of my characters to run dungeons now. Has nothing to do with my heals, to be honest I was asked to heal once and I didn't know how! I still don't know how nor will I play my DC again if I have to heal. I have an OP healer to use as needed.

theycallmetomu · January 2018

I dislike life steal as a mechanic, but the game is pretty much balanced around it ever since they nerfed regeneration.

ianthewizard2012 · January 2018

Another noticeable issue Life Steal is causing is unbalanced group. As long as yourself have enough Life Steal, you don't need to worry too much about survivability and can simply focus on doing more damage. The more damage you do, the more heals you get. Classes which are typically supposed to be squishy, such as CW, HR, and SW, can simply stack Life Steal and then be able to dance among mobs without the helps from tanks or controllers. Now as you can see, tactics are not needed, tanks are not needed, controllers are not needed, and even healers are not needed. Everyone can just go for DPS and will be fine. With those things happening, do you still seriously think that there is nothing wrong with Life Steal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QObsL1bT24

majorcharvenak · January 2018

Buffing, Mob/Boss damage, and over abundance of self-heals (to include lifesteal utilized by non-warlock classes) are just three of the things wildly unbalanced in this game, but it is what it is. Might as well leave it as is. And as for folks soloing Epics, they've been doing that for years. Lifesteal is just one tool (a powerful one to be sure) but with there are multiple pieces of gear, boons, insignia bonuses, stones of health, artifacts etc when used in tandum that allow for immortality. That's just how it is.

In other words @ianthewizard2012 - Just let it go. I think everyone here knows I main a OP OD with a DO DC as back up so I agree that it stinks that my role in main class is of little use at endgame. The devs aren't likely to change life steal anytime soon and I'd hate for them to tinker with it and cripple the SWs again as a result. Besides, if they did nerf it, the howls, crys and screams from the playerbase would make the bonding nerf look like a sniffle. My two coppers.

spidey · January 2018

majorcharvenak said:
Besides, if they did nerf it, the howls, crys and screams from the playerbase would make the bonding nerf look like a sniffle. My two coppers.

They already nerfed lifesteal March 2015. I cant find any howls,crys and screams. Maybe you do.

spidey · January 2018

ianthewizard2012 said:
With those things happening, do you still seriously think that there is nothing wrong with Life Steal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QObsL1bT24

Sry...but what should this vid show? I can clearly see a Tank, a AA DC, an DO DC and 2 DPS classes. Whats your point?

ianthewizard2012 · January 2018

spidey#3367 said:

ianthewizard2012 said:
With those things happening, do you still seriously think that there is nothing wrong with Life Steal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QObsL1bT24
Sry...but what should this vid show? I can clearly see a Tank, a AA DC, an DO DC and 2 DPS classes. Whats your point?

A non-healer keeps healing himself, a tank isn't tanking, and two healers aren't healing.

spidey · January 2018

ianthewizard2012 said:

A non-healer keeps healing himself, a tank isn't tanking, and two healers aren't healing.

Pardon me? I can see clearly how Randa tanks marked enemies. Ofc he dont need to tank CCed mobs. Why should he? Killing trash is one of the main funny things a CW should do. Good CWs can do this so fast ( and they can avoid a lot of incoming damage...the keyword is movement ^^).
I can clearly see how the AA DC works and how the DO DC works. I can see bubbles, buffs, debuffs.
Maybe you think the non heal class "heals" himself, because you think the Lion buff is a a heal? I cant see anything in this vid thats only possible bc lifesteal is wrong.....sry.

spidey · January 2018

Maybe you gonna check this Vid from north:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdPEaf5RAOc

He tested lifesteal a lot. Can you tell me whats wrong about lifesteal? I think you forgot the pre mod 6 times in nW...

majorcharvenak · January 2018

spidey#3367 said:

majorcharvenak said:
Besides, if they did nerf it, the howls, crys and screams from the playerbase would make the bonding nerf look like a sniffle. My two coppers.
They already nerfed lifesteal March 2015. I cant find any howls,crys and screams. Maybe you do.

Oh there were more than just one or two threads on the subject @spidey. A quick seach of the forums reveals much. Plus I should probably have add that I'm talking about the devs doing a hard nerf and cap for everyone who is not an SW. Something along the lines of a max 5% chance and a max severity of 75%. I'm talking about THAT kind of nerf. But like I said, should just let it go. If the devs WERE to entertain such nonsense and I'd recommend that they only put it into effect dungeons, skirmishes and similar content. Something along the lines of a PvE healing depression covering the LS severity. But as I said, It will probably never happen and there would be a lot of angry customers if they did.

eclipseblood · January 2018

> @spidey#3367 said:
> Maybe you gonna check this Vid from north:
>
>
>
> He tested lifesteal a lot. Can you tell me whats wrong about lifesteal? I think you forgot the pre mod 6 times in nW...

The gwf is one of the tankier dps classes, he changed around wat he was running specifically to focus on life steal and surviving. Most players wont go too heavy into life steal, only enough to get their health back if they get hit.

spidey · January 2018

doublepost...

spidey · January 2018

majorcharvenak said:
<
Oh there were more than just one or two threads on the subject @spidey. A quick seach of the forums reveals much. .

Sry, i wasnt talking about threads...i was talking about that they allready nerfed lifesteal.

spidey · January 2018

eclipseblood#1326 said:

The gwf is one of the tankier dps classes, he changed around wat he was running specifically to focus on life steal and surviving. Most players wont go too heavy into life steal, only enough to get their health back if they get hit.

This doesnt anywer my question whats wrong with lifesteal. Some ppl claiming lifesteal works wrong. I still wanny know where. The vid from north was just an example how lifesteal works if you maximize your lifesteal attribut and def. Maybe some one can explain me whats wrong with lifesteal.

majorcharvenak · January 2018

spidey#3367 said:

majorcharvenak said:
<
Oh there were more than just one or two threads on the subject @spidey. A quick seach of the forums reveals much. .
Sry, i wasnt talking about threads...i was talking about that they allready nerfed lifesteal.

Thats right. And then you added that you couldn't find any crys, howls or screams (which would have come from the playerbase) and stated that maybe I did. That's what my comment about the older topics in the forums was about. Players did express their concerns about the changes to LS and Regen.

ianthewizard2012 · January 2018

spidey#3367 said:

ianthewizard2012 said:

A non-healer keeps healing himself, a tank isn't tanking, and two healers aren't healing.
Pardon me? I can see clearly how Randa tanks marked enemies. Ofc he dont need to tank CCed mobs. Why should he? Killing trash is one of the main funny things a CW should do. Good CWs can do this so fast ( and they can avoid a lot of incoming damage...the keyword is movement ^^).
I can clearly see how the AA DC works and how the DO DC works. I can see bubbles, buffs, debuffs.
Maybe you think the non heal class "heals" himself, because you think the Lion buff is a a heal? I cant see anything in this vid thats only possible bc lifesteal is wrong.....sry.

Oh, yes. He did tank some giants and bosses. Sorry. I was too concentrated on the performance of Life Steal.

As for the two DCs, I didn't see any Healing Word or Astral Shield. Maybe I missed something?

ianthewizard2012 · January 2018

spidey#3367 said:

eclipseblood#1326 said:

The gwf is one of the tankier dps classes, he changed around wat he was running specifically to focus on life steal and surviving. Most players wont go too heavy into life steal, only enough to get their health back if they get hit.
This doesnt anywer my question whats wrong with lifesteal. Some ppl claiming lifesteal works wrong. I still wanny know where. The vid from north was just an example how lifesteal works if you maximize your lifesteal attribut and def. Maybe some one can explain me whats wrong with lifesteal.

The main concern of this thread is that Life Steal enables incredible self-healing and renders healers less useful.

spidey · January 2018

ianthewizard2012 said:

As for the two DCs, I didn't see any Healing Word or Astral Shield. Maybe I missed something?

Arent there many other ways to keep the group alive as a DC? And is Healing Word or Astral Shild necessary if you got such a group? I think it depends how strong the goup is what you do as a DC. If a group is so strong ( but not bc lifesteal procs to often or to high...) why should the AA DC doing things like Healing Word or Astralshild, instead of (just an example) FF or BTF?

spidey · January 2018

ianthewizard2012 said:

The main concern of this thread is that Life Steal enables incredible self-healing and renders healers less useful.

And my main question is how you verified this issue? Im just curious.

ianthewizard2012 · January 2018

spidey#3367 said:

ianthewizard2012 said:

As for the two DCs, I didn't see any Healing Word or Astral Shield. Maybe I missed something?
Arent there many other ways to keep the group alive as a DC? And is Healing Word or Astral Shild necessary if you got such a group? I think it depends how strong the goup is what you do as a DC. If a group is so strong ( but not bc lifesteal procs to often or to high...) why should the AA DC doing things like Healing Word or Astralshild, instead of (just an example) FF or BTF?

Nowadays, a group is so strong that they don't need a healer because LS is so powerful, doesn't it?

ianthewizard2012 · January 2018

spidey#3367 said:

ianthewizard2012 said:

The main concern of this thread is that Life Steal enables incredible self-healing and renders healers less useful.
And my main question is how you verified this issue? Im just curious.

From players' discussions, players' explanations of their builds, and video showcases.

spidey · January 2018

ianthewizard2012 said:

Nowadays, a group is so strong that they don't need a healer because LS is so powerful, doesn't it?

Why cant a group be that strong? Why does classes have so many skills to heal them self besides LS? Why does a class need heal if he/she can CC a whole trashmob group? Why does someone needs a heal if he avoids incoming damage? Why does someone with BIS gear need a heal in a dungeon like eLoL?
And plz....what do you mean with "LS is so powerfull"?

Groups without a heal class can do that bc they are so strong and the dungeon is so easy, that you dont need a DC to clear that dungeon. Players are so strong and using the right build so they can do dungeons solo ( and i dont talk about eLol ot VT. I mean dungeons like CN, eCC, eGWD). But they are NOT the majority and this doesnt proof anything about a to powerfull LS.

ianthewizard2012 said:

From players' discussions, players' explanations of their builds, and video showcases.

So all really good "facts"...espacially the vid you showed. Thats it?

arcanjo86 · January 2018

lifesteal chance used nowadays can reach a max of 30% or more if you are temp sw, that is used nowaday to solo stuf daily basis, you need it for heal because regen is HAMSTER up and potions activation has become useless for the amout it heals, the potions value dont increase with the incoming healing percentage of this stat only gives the value stated on pot, so the only option is stone of health(cash grab ideal, but ah has some maybe). dc is benefitial for buffs debuffs purpose on team/party content, some of the dc encounters heal or apply a heal overtime, the lifesteal stat is fine, please dont fk up another char stat over this post .

Feedback: Life Steal is mainly being used for soloing epic dungeons

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