How many (PvE) Rouges are left...

talon1970 · December 2017

in your Guild, Alliance, Friendlist?

This is an Question, i am asking myself in the last couple of days.
And i am asking about active played Mainchars, or even Twinks played constantly be it on "normal" content up to endgame.
And how many people stopped playing it, and are playing now an "proper" Class instead.
And, more important, how many would play an Tr again, if some minor changes would be made, to bring on more balance between the classes.

Please people, one small rule:

Don't call for nerfs against other classes, we all deserves, that our favourite class acts as good as possible, bc everyone spends a lot of time and investements (be it Rp, Ad or Cash) in our Toons, and so do we as an Tr.

Pls fellow Cw and Sw, feel free to open an similar Topic, to show the devs how do you feel about the current state of your class.

And even if some user here don't play an Tr, i would apprecciate, if they were asking in their guild/alliance and post the result here, be it on Pc, xbox or Ps4.

So lets start:

The Guild i am in:

Loothochdruck (small german guild smth about 15 players), active played Trs: 1.... (me, but i also play an Dc [very bad], or maybe in the near future an OP [even worser], bc small guilds has often the problem, too many dps chars, and lacking on supporters.
Am i am able to run content/endcontent?
Yes and i like to run with the so called "meta group", bc i have no "struggle" or "fight" against other dps classes, it would for me far more dissapointing and stressfull to run with an second or third dps class in again.
Dumped Tr: 4
Two of them are maining an Dc now, one and Op, and one is double screwed, bc he changed his mainchar to an SW, but he is very inactive since half an year bc of studying.
Would they play an Tr again?
Two of them maybe, the other two...I don't think so.

It would be nice if some devs like

@nitocris83
@rgutscheradev
@terramak
@miasmat

or others would take an look from time to time on this posts, to see again, how many people feel about their favourite class.

ivansinkovic1 · December 2017

There aren't many.. But you can't say tat they're weak: I've played with a couple of them that could put to shame most of gwfs..
Recently I've played ToNG with some 15k tr, with not really bis pty.
We had a bugged instance, and we still finished in less than 25 minutes.. So my honest opinion is that TRs are pretty strong, it just takes time to master them.

demolitioninc · December 2017

In our guild we have 145-150 active accounts and about 4 active PvE TR's. After talking to them, I think the main issue is that you have to have pin point control to master this class and a very high understanding of when and how to use which encounter, interacting with stealth. But after they mastered it, the TR's are single target extravaganza. My main is a GWF, when we run ToNG in alliance I normally give the TR's the Orcus curse, because they will shred him faster, especially when buffed by AA and powershare they can multiply their own power on that with features and powers. They don't need buffs but maybe some changes that make them more "gameplay" friendly. On the other hand, the TR's we have actually enjoy the challenge and proud that they mastered the class.

armadeonx · December 2017

We have 130 active members in our guild and although I know a few have geared a TR to endgame capability, I believe I'm right in saying that none of them currently use those characters as their main.

They have transferred all r12 enchantments to another class and are instead maining GWFs, HRs or OPs.

My main is a Pally but I have a 13.5k TR - but my primary DPS class is now my HR (currently 13.3k but now the focus of most of my spending).

From experience I would say that a TR player has to be 'exceptional' to compete effectively with other primary DPS classes run by 'average' players. As such the TR is widely regarded as a bad choice for T3 runs and the level of exclusion they experience is probably the main driver behind so many people switching classes.

dravendrow76 · December 2017

Der Pakt Members ca. 15 Accounts, aktive ones between 5 and 7.
Main TRs 2. Left TRs 2. and we will play our TR till the world goes down.
Myself Main TR also, i switch between DC and TR, allways in case what is needed. And sad thing, no party needs TR.
I dont think TR is worse then any other class, the ONLY problem is community thinks that TR is worse then every other class. and as result they left TR out.

I don´t call nerfs for other classes and i don´t vote for buff the TR, but i please the community to open their eyes and open their minds to see there are other things out there then meta groups.
TONG 20min or 24min or even 30 min, i dont care.

Can other classes do better then TR? YES
Can TR do better then other classes? YES

spidey · December 2017

"Besser du als Ich", active members ca. 25 -30
3 Main TRs. All BIS gear. 2 of them will never play another class and all 3 are so good as every other dps class. One of them made an OP, just bc he wanna try a tank class. But if they try to run T9 with pugs? Very hard to find a group, even if they can make tons of DPS.
Easy solution for TRs:
Increase weapon damage at TRs. Fix TRs in PVP WITHOUT nerfing in PVE. This is what PW never managed well.
TRs should be the best single target DPS class, like it was in the good ole days.

Spidey

mebengalsfan · December 2017

TR is probably the only class in this game where it takes a bit of skill to play it to the highest level. Of the other DPS classes SW and CW take similar skill to play but both do not require any real skill to play to the highest level. HR Combat and GWF are simply the easiest DPS classes to play and put out some really high damage for being the easier classes to play as a DPS.

In other MMO games usually the easiest to play class produces the lowest amount of damage; Not sure if Cryptic got that memo or not but I rather see classes that require a bit more out of the player to produce a bit more damage. With that said, TR would be the highest damaging class when played properly.

Side note, everyone I know that played a TR as their main has moved onto other classes or have quit the game all together.

pitshade · December 2017

I have 2 TR. The first was a main character through mod 4 but is currently doing Alt duty for the most part. I had to go through the hard work to make a functional TR back then and while I love the class, it is only slightly in a better spot now than it was then. She is firsy in line of all my DPS alts to get upgraded if a good rework comes, but until then I have no desire to beat my head against that wall again. The other TR is my WK test character from mod 2. She is destined to remain an alt forever as there is unlikely ever to be a reason to gear up 2 TR and with loadouts, especially. Both are in the 13k range.

I have 3 top tier TRs in F-List, one of whom is my guild leader. The other two are in other guilds. There are a handful of other TR mains in the guild as well as some with mutiple mains that include TR. Hard to get a number as some play intermittently. There is a new person that mains TR in the past few weeks. I would say that with @micky1p00 as head honcho, Anti TR sentiment is not a thing in the guild!

spidey · December 2017

mebengalsfan#9264 said:
TR is probably the only class in this game where it takes a bit of skill to play it to the highest level. Of the other DPS classes SW and CW take similar skill to play but both do not require any real skill to play to the highest level. HR Combat and GWF are simply the easiest DPS classes to play and put out some really high damage for being the easier classes to play as a DPS.

I hope talon1970 got on eye on such false posts. I can understand if TRs need some pushs, but not bc they are harder to play...

hammbo1969 · December 2017

I'm not guilded, but have a 14.5k TR which I main. I swap bondings to other toons, but will always look to advance my TR in gear/enchants before any other. I find myself recently playing my GF more, just to advance him through the latest campaign, and I have to say it's very enjoyable. Also enjoy playing CW with a dabble into the dark world of the SW.

Always will stick with the TR though, as it's more of a challenge than the other classes I regularly play.

clericalist · December 2017

I have a rogue for pve only, and I enjoy playing it. Regarding the non TONG pve content I think the TR is actually a pretty decent class to play. For challenges like IG of the merchant skirmish (when not in an ultra whale party), having those smoke bombs go off against some tough mobs can save lives. The TR is also the best class to save somebody else who is down, again this is something that really is at times needed for those that don't play in the ultra whale parties. Finally there is the stealth mechanic, the joy of seeing those question marks of the mobs that at times you need to escape, or optimizing your dps by proper use of stealth (in all 3 paths), makes it a fun class to play.

The issue with TONG is not the TR, it is because the developers don't seem to be solving the power creep problem very well, challenges like Tiamat or Demagorgon have become too easy, even for random PUG groups, so instead of tackling the power creep problem they created TONG which all it has done is expose the gaping difference in class performance.

So if the TR is not the really the problem in my opinion, to address the thornier issue...

talon1970 said:
Don't call for nerfs against other classes, we all deserves, that our favourite class acts as good as possible, bc everyone spends a lot of time and investements (be it Rp, Ad or Cash) in our Toons, and so do we as an Tr.

The problem with that sentiment is that the alternative can be worse. If the solution is to simply reward every class that is not overpowered with the same overpowered ability, then you end up with a game where all content is too easy, which surely is worse than having some content that is too hard. As for the taboo about asking for nerfs, classes at times need to be nerfed, how can somebody seriously claim that overpowered classes should not face nerfings?

Of course when one tries to measure how well a class is doing one does it in comparison to how well other similar classes are doing, in this case it is obviously going to be the GWF (possibly the melee HR as well though). So asking the question who does more damage to a single target boss when equally geared, does more damage to a mob and who is more survivable, the clear answer to the first two is the GWF by a big margin, to the third question it is tricker, but I would argue the GWF has it easier than the TR to survive. So if this is the case, and to not add even more overpowered classes to an already power creep game problem, the solution has to be a GWF nerf. If some GWF players are too selfish (please note I am not saying that all GWF are this) to acknowledge that corrections need to be done, please be aware that a big exodus of player is not in your interest regardless how little you care about the rest.

armadeonx · December 2017

The OP asked a simple question - how many players still actively run a TR, particularly as their main.

He was trying to avoid the whole 'class war' debate and deal with the basic point that 'are they regarded as so bad that people are voting with their feet and abandoning the class.

talon1970 · December 2017

What @armadeonx said:

Again, i don't want an discussion, about how good or bad an Tr is.

My intention is, to see (and to show the devs if they are interested), the current situation, if people still play it active, or if they stopped playing it, because they were discouraged, influenced, or simply don't like it anymore.

And as strange as it sounds, i would also like to see an statement like:

"No we don't have an Tr in our guild, bc we think the Tr is not viable in PvE."

This would be for me an honest response, very hard for sure, but an clear statement.

So i decided to ask the same question on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/7jpa5l/how_many_pve_rogues_are_left/

To have more answers, not only for me, but also for the devs (if they are interested again).

dravendrow76 · December 2017

is think they aren´t tdgaf

spidey · December 2017

clericalist said:

Of course when one tries to measure how well a class is doing one does it in comparison to how well other similar classes are doing, in this case it is obviously going to be the GWF (possibly the melee HR as well though). So asking the question who does more damage to a single target boss when equally geared, does more damage to a mob and who is more survivable, the clear answer to the first two is the GWF by a big margin, to the third question it is tricker, but I would argue the GWF has it easier than the TR to survive. So if this is the case, and to not add even more overpowered classes to an already power creep game problem, the solution has to be a GWF nerf. If some GWF players are too selfish (please note I am not saying that all GWF are this) to acknowledge that corrections need to be done, please be aware that a big exodus of player is not in your interest regardless how little you care about the rest.

Few words:
Atm there is only one class in NW who can defeat every other classes in single DPS. Not a GWF, btw.
If you search for some vids, you will find vids from GFs dealing 185mio with one hit. I dont know any GWF who can deal that damage.
But beside this fact, you think its ok to claim for a nerf? *clap clap clap....
one more from this fraction...

Sry Talon,

but i get pissed when i read such HAMSTER. You dont ask for a nerf and you dont ask for a class discussion. Right now you almost got in every thread at least one who claims a nerf for a GWF. And like this one, one more without any clue whats really going on atm...

sirjimbofrancis · December 2017

I still main a TR, and I’m in a small guild. Noto doesn’t play anymore, sadly. We have one more TR, besides myself, and I have several TRs in my friend list, several have posted here. But, I know more that have moved on to other classes. I haven’t really kept up with my blog, since the last time we were told our class was next to be rebalanced about 6months ago, and I confess I’ve been gearing up a GF, myself.

c1k4ml3kc3 · December 2017

TRs are in a very bad spot right now. This might change in MOD13.

araxelven · December 2017

c1k4ml3kc3 said:
TRs are in a very bad spot right now. This might change in MOD13.

As I've said on reddit, I think it's mostly (still) a matter of perception. Of course an undergeared and inexperienced TR is going to bomb in ToNG, but with some patience and skill a TR can do really well there and at that level most of the other content is trivially easy.

preechr · December 2017

spidey#3367 said:

Few words:
Atm there is only one class in NW who can defeat every other classes in single DPS. Not a GWF, btw.
If you search for some vids, you will find vids from GFs dealing 185mio with one hit. I dont know any GWF who can deal that damage.
But beside this fact, you think its ok to claim for a nerf? *clap clap clap....
one more from this fraction...

Sry Talon,

but i get pissed when i read such HAMSTER. You dont ask for a nerf and you dont ask for a class discussion. Right now you almost got in every thread at least one who claims a nerf for a GWF. And like this one, one more without any clue whats really going on atm...

Absolutely no one cares what the OP class is in PvP

Please don't interject that nonsense into a PvE thread that had nothing to do with PvP

thefabricant · December 2017

There is plenty of red rouge on the ah.

preechr · December 2017

To the OP, our guild has two very skilled, higher iL TRs, and since we regularly recruit brand new players we see a steady stream of people that are creating them, though most new players (I think) get discouraged and pretty much quit when they see how long it takes to get to "end-game-worthy"

One of those great TRs started bring up a GF alt and a DC alt pretty seriously, so I think he rarely plays his TR... when we do guild salvage runs, he will generally bring one of the others

The other TR we had on his level went to another guild for a while and then came back... looking for more to do in the game... and I haven't seen him in a while

He was replaced by a fresh level 70 TR main that spent a lot of money to get his TR over 14K in a pretty short time, and he is learning fast

We lost the rest of our good TRs over a year ago for various IRL and game-fatigue reasons

spidey · December 2017

preechr#2215 said:

Absolutely no one cares what the OP class is in PvP

Please don't interject that nonsense into a PvE thread that had nothing to do with PvP

Erm...maybe you can show me where i wrote anything about PVP.

neverburnaclown · December 2017

my tr is my first toon, and first one to finish all the content. Only when done for the day do i move on to my op and dc. Though between mods, like now, he gets shelved except for whatever event i feel like doing while i work on the alt army.

Guild/alliance: Knights of Heineken on xbone
Tr’s: just me, now.
Had a whole bunch up until the summer festival, don’t see any now. Most were alts anyway.

rickcase276 · December 2017

I know of 2 in my guild that main pve TRs. I have 2 pve TRs, but they are not my main.

talon1970 · December 2017

thefabricant said:
There is plenty of red rouge on the ah.

Damn you have found my secret fetish...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxyWQn_X3X8

trgluestickz · December 2017

sirjimbofrancis said:
I still main a TR, and I’m in a small guild. Noto doesn’t play anymore, sadly. We have one more TR, besides myself, and I have several TRs in my friend list, several have posted here. But, I know more that have moved on to other classes. I haven’t really kept up with my blog, since the last time we were told our class was next to be rebalanced about 6months ago, and I confess I’ve been gearing up a GF, myself.

@sirjimbofrancis

We technically have at least 4 TR mains in our guild counting you and me that are still active. We have Rogue/Tharog, he is a fresh level 70 and doesn't have much experience but he does main a TR and is mainly PVE. Frech recently came back and I think his TR is his main.

I guess I only count as a partial credit given I am mainly PVP but still do some PVE content. So to be over-accurate, our guild has at least 3 and a half active PVE TRs left.

Our dwindling TR headcount saddens me. The majority of our guild's population were TRs for a large chunk of this guild's history. Nowadays, almost all of our TRs have become inactive, quit the game, switched classes, or left the guild. I am the only TR player in our guild who I know for sure isn't considering switching classes. Even you have been talking about gearing up an HR or a GF, I have no clue what Frech's plans are, and Tharog I think is also leveling up a GF.

This is a list of guildmates who are currently active and own a TR but don't main a TR:

--- We have kinzath but I am unsure whether or not he still mains a TR. I usually see him on his CW nowadays.
--- Lordazzie owns 2 TRs but they are not his main. I think his SW is his main but not sure.
--- Zane owns 2 TRs and one is decently geared. He used to use his geared up TR a lot but he mains tanks.
--- Zan owns 2 TRs according to our roster but he does not main a TR and I never see him using his TRs. He also mains tanks.
--- Leah owns a TR but its not her main either.
--- Ely owns a TR but we both know he hates this class

--- Jornak has a TR but I don't think its his main and I doubt he uses it for much besides invoking.
--- Jess also has a TR but its not her main.

trgluestickz · December 2017

@talon1970

There was a poll conducted in August 2017 on how many PVE players main each class. This poll had a sample size of 288. The sample size is decent but this poll is still only measuring a fraction of this game's total PVE population.

--- 17.7% of all players that responded were TRs and TRs were the largest group. However, the TR class was only leading by a very small margin.
--- 16.3% of all players that responded main an HR. HR is the second largest group.
--- 12.5% of all responders were CWs
--- 12.2% of all responders were DCs
--- 11.8% of all responders were GWFs
--- 11.1% of all responders were SWs
--- 10.1% of all responders were OPs
--- 8.3% of all responders were GFs.

Here is a screenshot of the poll results, copy this link into your browser to view it:

https://i.imgur.com/QgajFC2.png

A hypothesis a lot of people would likely make is that the stronger classes would be the most numerous and the weaker classes would be the least numerous. This poll seems to indicate that this is not the case and that the strength of a class has little to do with its popularity.

This poll also seems to show that a significant number of PVE players were still maining TRs back then. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the TR population has dropped significantly since this poll was taken. Tensions were high for TR players back then too but it seems like the last couple of months have been the straw that broke the camel's back for many TRs.

trgluestickz · December 2017

@talon1970

I just found another series of PVE polls on classes. This poll set was done 3 months ago.

Here is the link to the reddit thread that put up these polls. The guy who started this reddit thread linked the results of this poll series. He also includes another screenshot that shows you how to view the class specific comments people polled made:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/6vvqp2/unofficial_pve_class_survey/

Just in case anybody has trouble finding the poll data he posted, I have included the links below:

All polls overview. Once you open the document, scroll down to find another poll on what class people have as a main. This poll came out with similar but not quite identical results as the other poll I gave you. It also appears to have a significantly larger sample size than the first poll I gave you:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OcCbucNRHosp4iYhbYOOd2_pmMqBsG57hXQuZbrd2bw/edit#gid=1130426361

The TR section of these polls. Scroll sideways to view all TR polls:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OcCbucNRHosp4iYhbYOOd2_pmMqBsG57hXQuZbrd2bw/edit#gid=232291586

trgluestickz · December 2017

As for non guildie TRs I know, most of the TRs on my freindlist are PVP TRs but I don't see very many of them logging in anymore. I don't see very many PVE TRs on my freindlist logging in anymore either. A big chunk of my freindlist were TRs but nowadays, I never see most of them logging in.

The lack of PVP TRs I know logging in probably has less to do with the state of the TR class and more to do with PVPer numbers dropping over the years as a whole.

The lack of PVE TRs I know logging in probably does have more to do with the state of the TR class than other factors. A lot of players in general have left NW over the years so other factors likely still account for some of this.

sundance777 · December 2017

I think I am the only person that still has a TR main in my guild of 150 players (XBOX). Most have switched to GWF or HR. I use it for dragon flight and occasionally to be the DPS on larger group content.

Admittedly I have two other characters that are also mains, a DC and OP...because it is easier to get the runs I need on those.

c1k4ml3kc3 · December 2017

araxelven said:

c1k4ml3kc3 said:
TRs are in a very bad spot right now. This might change in MOD13.
As I've said on reddit, I think it's mostly (still) a matter of perception. Of course an undergeared and inexperienced TR is going to bomb in ToNG, but with some patience and skill a TR can do really well there and at that level most of the other content is trivially easy.

How can it be a matter of perception if the TR's Smoke Bomb can't even utilize a Weapon Enchantment?

I mean, there's talking and there's just babbling about. Your's the latter.

You're practically stating "With careful planning a TR is useful in pulling and hitting mobs in TONG" - well any class is. Your "perception" is some 20.000.000 AD of an oversight.

How many (PvE) Rouges are left...

Comments