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Solo Queue isn't the answer.

starheretic70starheretic70 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 52 Arc User
Hi,

Permanent solo queue will not solve much. Please consider this.

Yeah, of course the big evil premades wont be there in solo Q, this is true but, high GS players will still feed like crazy on weak players.
And last time, 3 of my friends and me synchro solo Q, we were in the same team (no joke).

Low level players will still have a bad time. I dont know how Cryptic cant found a way to split into 2 GS groups, they must.

It would solve the many buff potions problems (because most high GS knows about them), it would solve many complaints. The level of competition would be fair on both sides of the large group of the 70.

I appreciate your opinions.

If there is another post like that, tell me and I will take it down. Thanks.
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  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    Its a step in the right direction.

    Next step hopefully: Mix the teams after 10 people have accepted, rather than putting them all in teams by their queue order.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    Hi,

    Permanent solo queue will not solve much. Please consider this.

    Yeah, of course the big evil premades wont be there in solo Q, this is true but, high GS players will still feed like crazy on weak players.
    And last time, 3 of my friends and me synchro solo Q, we were in the same team (no joke).

    Low level players will still have a bad time. I dont know how Cryptic cant found a way to split into 2 GS groups, they must.

    It would solve the many buff potions problems (because most high GS knows about them), it would solve many complaints. The level of competition would be fair on both sides of the large group of the 70.

    I appreciate your opinions.

    If there is another post like that, tell me and I will take it down. Thanks.

    Solo-queue was never supposed to fix all of PvP's problems. It was meant to address 2 specific concerns. The current (actually previous, because it has been turned off, but still) matchmaking system does not work because of low player population. Since all the players that want to PvP already do, the only solution is to draw in new blood. This has not worked, despite several promotions offered by the devs.. . as soon as the promotion is over, most of the players drop out, the population slips, the matchmaking stops working & we at right back to where we started. Solo-queue gives new players a small look at what PvP once was, & could be again. A competition where the strongest doesn't always win. Can 3 BIS players always win? Sure. But 2 can't. 2 players can't hold 3 nodes. That's where strategy comes in. a team of 5 weak players can beat a team with 2 monsters on it if they play right. Those were good fights. That's what new players SHOULD see when they queue solo. Which brings us to the 2nd problem... new players can't learn how to do this in the current system. When a pre-made team can hold all 3 nodes with a single toon, all pug players can learn from that fight is how to get stomped. Honestly, I can't even blame my own guildies, when the et themselves be kicked from a guild they help to build, because the refuse to set foot in PvP to try & get Conqueror's shards. It's even happened to me... not because I didn't try. But, because it is possible to play 2 - 3 PvP matches a day for a week, or more, & not get a single win. There is something wrong with that. Saying that solo-queue is not the answer... well, you are right. But it IS the only option we have right now. That doesn't mean that the devs shouldn't try to improve mathmaking. Or shouldn't continue the class balance efforts. How exactly do you expect the dev's to justify expending those resources for the HAMSTER-poor population that PvP has now?
  • starheretic70starheretic70 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 52 Arc User
    was in a hard fight yesterday, us in premade vs 4 strong and 1 really low GS gwf / we won at 1000 to 997

    we were suppose to be easily defeated, the gwf die 21 times, he was really low gear. That is the point I try to make.

    if the GS would have been split in too, the high GS would fight between themselves and the low will throw fluffy snowballs to each others.
  • starheretic70starheretic70 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 52 Arc User

    Its a step in the right direction.

    Next step hopefully: Mix the teams after 10 people have accepted, rather than putting them all in teams by their queue order.

    and no, I want to play with my friends when I want to
    when we premade , there is never 2 healing builds in premade , only one or none at all.

    1've done match vs 1 heal DC and 1 heal OP ... it's garbage.
  • grampyrulz#4209 grampyrulz Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    I don't think the current version of domination is going away if the solo queue is made permanent. Random teams is just another challenge you should have to deal with if you choose to solo queue.
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    @starheretic70
    Whats the point of solo queue if you can manipulate the system so that its no longer solo?
    If you want to play with your friends you can always use normal queue.
  • grampyrulz#4209 grampyrulz Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    I can't believe there isn't a way to make it so you can't manipulate it, or at the very least extremely difficult to do so.
  • starheretic70starheretic70 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 52 Arc User
    again today, I've seen players with 4k - 5k GS , even someone with mod3 weapons

    we really need to split the GS in 2
    facing players how some levels , premade or not , it will be a tougher and a fair fight
    and the low GS will have a chance.
  • sabre10sabre10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited August 2017

    again today, I've seen players with 4k - 5k GS , even someone with mod3 weapons

    we really need to split the GS in 2
    facing players how some levels , premade or not , it will be a tougher and a fair fight
    and the low GS will have a chance.

    Could do with having a sufficiently sized community first. Solo queue has helped that a little, so I feel like @cilginordek that its a step in the right direction
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  • masticore#3287 masticore Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    I just want to know why a 5k il decide to q pvp? I mean, you can pretty much expect you will get mopped up and hinder any decent il players trying to get shards, seals, glory. How about gearing up a little or get 1 shotted...
  • miyanaamiyanaa Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 72 Arc User

    I just want to know why a 5k il decide to q pvp? I mean, you can pretty much expect you will get mopped up and hinder any decent il players trying to get shards, seals, glory. How about gearing up a little or get 1 shotted...

    Cause many new players want to check PvP out? Dont tell me that youve never queued for PvP in the game you just started playing. That you never went competitive mode match as soon as you could,just to see how it looks like.

    Ive done that in every single game, and pretty sure thats what people usually do :P So devs have to make it fair for these kind of players too.

    Or completely disable PvP for lvl 70 until you reach a certain GS/ITL, like 13 or something. Which is decent enough to compete.
    Players can practice PvP in lower lvls, before they hit 70. So "end game" lvl PvP should be more competitive, which means higher GS/ITL requirement.

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  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    If i was a dev i would have added a filter to solve the problem.
    Domination
    Filter A. Matchmaking all
    Filter B. Matchmaking IL 6k - 9k (anyone with higher IL cannot play this)
    Filter C. Matchmaking IL 10k - 17k (anyone with lower IL cannot play this)
    Filter D. Matchmaking Near item level (Seek a challenge, choose this option. Very long wait time.)
    Warlock- Lv80. || Rogue - Lv80. || Wizard - Lv80. || Paladin - Lv80. || Cleric - Lv80. || Ranger - Lv70. || Barbarian - Lv70. || Fighter - Lv70.

    ¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨

  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    @miyanaa

    I think the point that masticore is trying to make is why a 5k il would queue repeatedly when only one or two times is enough to figure out that your probably not going to be effective in PvP at that item level (especially when players are telling them to run pve and upgrade first).

    The answer is daily ad. Certain players at this point are so conditioned to just say "gg" thinking that it entitles them to free caps. These are the players that ruin it for others who just want to play a good match.
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  • hirogardehirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    If tenacity were changed to be fixed on a person, queueing could be split by Tenacity levels rather than iLevel. I haven't PvP'd much, but I can tell how effective even the Company PvP gear is compared to 450iLevel PvE gear.

    Suggestion: Change Tenacity to be permanent to the character and bought with Glory (or awarded through wins) - no matter the loadout or gear, once you have it you can't get rid of it. Then split PvP matchmaking for 20-30%, 30-40%, etc. This would make it so the more you PvP, the more you can have, tiering you up as you go. If you choose not to purchase Tenacity, you'd at least be on equal(ish) defensive playing ground with the new players. Setting the lower tier matches with a Tenacity cap (meaning it auto sets to highest level) could allow friends at different levels team up too.

    The downside to something like this is that they'd have to create new gear that would be attainable through PvP and similar stat distribution as current PvE gear (for those that only want to PvP); but that should be doable with the current vendors in PE.
  • hirogardehirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2017

    @hirogarde they already said they going to remove Tenacity from gear and apply a fixed amount to everyone. So everyone is going to have (let's say) 40% Tenacity, therefore your suggestion is already out the window.

    I heard that as well; that doesn't mean they've figured out a perfect "fix" - which is why I posted a suggestion.

    As discussed here and in other posts, iLevel doesn't always mean much when it comes to player ability - so matchmaking by iLevel probably isn't going to work well. Some way of designating how well one PvPs is necessary for a "balanced" match (IMO).

    Some form of extra defense will also be necessary, and scaling that extra defense to one's PvP skill level should put equally skilled players at near equal Tenacity.

    More Tenacity, as it works now, means you're more difficult to defeat. So high skilled players (with high tenacity) will find themselves in longer battles - beginners (with low tenacity) may die faster at first, but they'll also be far more likely to kill faster as well. If done right, as one's actual skill grows their Tenacity would grow as well, locking them out of the "beginner" arenas.

    If the devs are really dead-set against keeping some form of variable Tenacity... another option - though really only a short term fix: Open up a new Stronghold PvP type arena (i.e. lots of different objectives). The key to keeping it relatively balanced would be allowing it to start/play with less than max players. So a 25 v 25 can start at 10 v 10. Queueing into an open match would bring up player list (so friends/guilds can join together) where you can pick your side. Players would be allowed to enter and exit to fill the teams (maybe with a 1-5min exit-reenter wait). If the team populations become too unbalanced, skew the scoring to the "weak" side.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,170 Arc User
    The permanent solo queue isn't the anwer, but it is an absolutely necessary part of the answer. Without it, we'll always have microphallic premades getting their daily AD and seals by beating up on helpless low-geared players. It's a big enough problem to warrant the solo queue as the ONLY solution to it. If that's the only problem it solves, it's done enough.
  • nyihahanyihaha Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12 Arc User
    Of course solo queue can't address all the issues but it still helps.
    Another big problem in solo queues are the stupid players. Many times they keep calling votes for no appropriate reason and get you killed because it's during duels. They calling votes for reasons like they wants 15k teammates instead of 14k or they just don't like someone. And the teammates just click on OK because no one has time to think about it.
    It happened a lot in the last few days so I strongly advise to disable the vote system in solo queue.
  • krutiouskrutious Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    GS que will never work because gear can be taken on and off,besides that companions are irrelevant in pvp but not in pve so a pve player gear score may be higher just based off companions/bondings/companion gear etc...and a pvp player doesn't give a rip about companions and companion bondings etc...because he doesn't need them,so please for the love of God stop asking for "fair pvp" based on GS that will never ever ever ever work.
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    krutious said:

    GS que will never work because gear can be taken on and off,besides that companions are irrelevant in pvp but not in pve so a pve player gear score may be higher just based off companions/bondings/companion gear etc...and a pvp player doesn't give a rip about companions and companion bondings etc...because he doesn't need them,so please for the love of God stop asking for "fair pvp" based on GS that will never ever ever ever work.

    Yes, there probably should be a separate "PvP item Level" used for PvP queues. But there isn't and until there is a way for low item level players to queue and NOT face 15K item level characters in a "fair" match then PvP isn't going to attract many new players. Right now a player under 10k even in solo queue is either totally stomped and insulted or simply kicked by his team. The result? Very few new players get into PvP right now, even with solo queue.
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  • starheretic70starheretic70 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 52 Arc User
    pvp is damage beyond repair.

    go play smite you'll have a better time, it's well balance and the players from noob to "autistic awesome"
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    Solo queue is not the answer but it still improves PvP compared to mixed queue. With mixed queue, you add to all the PvP issues, the premades factor and stomping premades factor/ premades farming PvP. With soloQ the % of matches that do not end up in a trade caps, increases. At least in my experience.
    It's the duty of a team to understand that their 9k team mate must not go against the 15k enemy, but against the 9-10k of the enemy team, while the geared guys go after the stronger enemies. More geared players still kill lower geared players, but if the teams are even, everyone gets a chance to fight. With my 12k HR i do not go after the 15k enemy, i try to support and fight against enemies of my level.
    With soloQ it's less likely to end up with a team filled with 13-14-15k and another team filled with 8-10k toons. In my experience.
  • buddy514buddy514 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    solo que is the only fair way to play these days it seems. I personally love it
  • pjohnny1pjohnny1 Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    buddy514 said:

    solo que is the only fair way to play these days it seems. I personally love it

    Solo is the best of what is pvp in this game . Its not in the least bit fair . New or low ilvl players get farmed in solo just like regular que . The one upside is they get carried to a win more often . The best thing about solo que is that the pm's mostly are not there , but this isn't entirely true with sync queing going on . Besides since the event started I have run at least 100 matches and would say TR's won the matches 65% of the time . Lol was in a match that a TR killed the opposing teams players 48 times . It was like watching someone clearing trash mobs for 15 minutes .
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,170 Arc User
    The solo queue has lived up to its promise as much as one could expect. We still need a way to kick afk players/campfire sitters right away, though. And, of course, it continues to expose the glaring imbalance between classes, so that when Cryptic decides to pay attention to obvious pvp issues in another couple of years they'll have all the data they need.
  • rschragerrschrager Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 59 Arc User
    Two relatively simple solutions to the problems described above:
    1. Re-randomize the teams after selecting the 10 players for a match. This eliminates all the queue-synching nonsense and prevents people from declining 15 matches in a row until they're sure they're all on the same team.
    2. 'Lock' IL to the value you queued with and use that number for all calculations during the match. This solves the problem of people queuing naked or with all slots empty.
    Not sure how much attention this sort of thing will get, since PvP numbers are far lower than PvE numbers, but it's still fun to think of the impact that changes like this would have on the solo queue, huh? ;)
  • starheretic70starheretic70 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 52 Arc User

    the base of a mmo is to play with your friends
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