Heal Paladins Rework (Suggestions) - consolidated

hirogarde
hirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
I've re-organized all the suggestions I found in THE ORIGINAL post and consolidated them into categories. I think I got them all (with correct credit). I was just trying to sift through all the builds, boons, and banter and thought this might help.

I didn't go through and remove duplicates, I figured I'd leave that for someone who has played a DevOP longer. The only changes I made to quotes was for punctuation here and there.

It's about 7 pages in a word doc, so I'm going to split it up in here.

At-Will:
Oath Strike:
• Now I like Oath Strike a lot and it should be every heal paladins at will, but however the base damage is a bit low. My highest hits with it have been around 60k but that was with crazy buffs from others and DCs. Solo I hit around 15-30k... If this can get buffed to hit harder it would help solo and assist in some dps for OP Heals. - @mythosyggdrasil

Auras:
Aura of Divinity:
• All allies within a 30ft area of you receive a temporary shield every 8 or 10 seconds. This shield(temp hitpoints) is equal to 20% of your maximum hitpoints. This affect does not stack (I think if the math is correct its 30k temp shield every 8 or 10 seconds to allies, and of course does not stack.) - @mythosyggdrasil
• Make allies who are within 30' of you and are below 20% health are granted damage immunity for 4 secs. Additional ranks increases the duration by 1 sec. This way it would give the healadin a few seconds to try to correct the situation or if they die and you're running with another pally, get close enough to rez them with aura of life. - @majorcharvenak
• should be bond of virtue. Exactly as it is. Stop taking up an encounter slot with a passive, PLEASE - @duskwood

Aura of Restoration:
• I would actually do a twist on @mythosyggdrasil recommendation of making Aura of Divinity grant a temp hp shield to allies and actually make that Aura of Restoration (You and your allies within 30' of you gain a 10% incoming healing bonus from all spells). Aura of Restoration, as it stands now, is pretty worthless given the amount we heal already. - @majorcharvenak

Aura of Solitude:
• Buff aura of solitude and make sure it doesn't get tripped up by a companion (there is some confusion on PS4 as to if that is happening or not) - @ravenskya

Daily:
Healing Font:
• Now what I would like to see from this daily is a revamp and what I would like it to do is.... You place a healing font that will heal all allies in the affected area for 20% of their maximum hitpoints this lasts for 10 seconds. In addition when Healing Font is active it radiates rays of hope which buffs allies movement speed and DR by 10% for 10 seconds. - @mythosyggdrasil
• I'm not sure HOW to make that viable as we heal so much already via Vow + Bond. Perhaps giving it having the ability to rez (without rez sickness) would make it a bit more attactive, but would make Aura of Life less than useless. Gonna have to think on that one. - @majorcharvenak
• This one is a long shot, but instead of my earlier suggestion of having it rez a fallen party member (without ressurection sickness) like Aura of Life currently does, cut Healing Font's duration to 10 sec (w/ additional 2 sec per rank) but have it block one-shots. Yep! You read it right...I want a healabubble or...err...a Bubblefountian. Basically, I want them to make our paragon daily have the near weight of Divine Protector. It will block the one shot...it will heal...the devs will no doubt nerf, but that's all I can come up with for that power. Have it prevent all allies within its range from dropping below 1 hit point and place a cooldown on it to allow this effect 1 every 90 sec. I know, I know. It's not gonna happen but there is what I would recommend. My two coppers. - @majorcharvenak
• Initially I would have liked to have seen Healing Font (our class paragon daily) be as strong of a daily as Divine Protector, but not working exactly the same way. I wanted something we could set down and while it wouldn't block the damage. You would still take it, but if healing font was active, and the team took a massive amount of damage, it would leave you with 1 hp for a split second then start to heal you. So maybe not damage immunity, but something that acts like @damoc's suggested intention for Aura of Divinity, a mass soulforge for the party. One that you can set down for any of the squishy Dpsers that might be positioned just outside of range for AoL, and one that wouldn't apply resurrection sickness when activated. Impose a limitation on it where you can only benefit from it once every 90 secs or 120 secs or whatever so that its not abused but would potentially be useful to prevent at least one party wipe. - @majorcharvenak
• My (new) suggestion on it would be instead of giving damage immunity for 4 secs, give would trigger a damage resistance component that activates when a target is a 20% health but scales depending on how low the target's current health is. So 5% DR at 20% health and up to 20% DR at 5% health. Also add a bonus to incoming healing starting at 10%, with a 5% increase for each rank. - @majorcharvenak
• Should pulse temp hp or a shield as well as the heal. - @duskwood

Comments

  • hirogarde
    hirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Encounters:
    Absolution:
    • Allies under the affect of this sheild receive 10% more healing, and applies to all allies in a 5ft radius - @mythosyggdrasil
    • Needs to be team wide. - @duskwood

    Bane:
    • If Healadin Bane was able to applied within a 30' radius or something, I'd say it would start to make the Healadin competitive (but not superior) to the DC for the buffer/healer spot. - @rjc9000
    Banishment:
    • I would also like banishment to something other than act like an overpowered hold person spell. Maybe have it do 10% base weapon damage over time to snared opponents for the duration of their capture. I would also be helpful to have some animation to identify the AoE. - @majorcharvenak

    Bond of Virtue:
    • All allies within 60ft of the affected area around you become bonded which increases the heals they receive by 10% and all allies receive 5% of shared healing within the circle. (Each point increases healing by 10% and shared healing by 5% and for each point.) For a total of 25% healing 20% shared healing. - @mythosyggdrasil
    • increase ap gain by 5% for allies and 5% per point to the pally - @entspringen
    • Bond becomes an aura rather than taking up an encounter slot - @ravenskya
    • I want to see bond of virtue put as an aura - @duskwood

    Burning Light:
    • This encounter sends out a pulse of radiant energy that burns the foes for 5 seconds. This radiant energy increases AP gain of you and your allies for 2.5seconds. (This encounter can only be used every 12 seconds, and each point increases the base damage of the encounter by 5 or 10%) - @mythosyggdrasil
    • Burning Light doesn't need a charge - @ravenskya
    • Burning light charging mechanism - please no more. I would agree to an increased cool down if I wouldn't have to stand doing nothing but charging it. - @damoc
    • Would definately recommend decreasing the charge time on Burning Light. There are times when I just fire it well before its charged just to activate it because waiting for it to charge would be a death sentence. The damage itself is meh, but it does help proc other effects (see my last post it just needs to charge about 10 to 20% faster. - @majorcharvenak
    • If they should only change one thing if they ever took a look at our thread it would more than likely be changing how Burning Light works. Everyone seems to like and want the charge time removed or reduced. I personally with rather have it be removed all together and additional affects added to its use. Buff its damage. - @isaintify1
    • If only they'd make BL chargeable whilst moving... - @armadeonx

    Circle of Power:
    • Giving 30% increased healing is useless. Either get it on par with prot op and give us DR or get innovative and give us recharge speed increase or something like 15-20% on all stats to make it a usable buff. - @damoc
    • Circle of Power is more like Circle of Uselessness, and I know by saying that gonna get some guy trying to say how good it is if used correctly blah blah. No this encounter is useless, and the reason for that is, it only gives us bonus damage and healing. If this encounter really is a "Circle of Power" (A beastly sounding name) then it should give allies a dps boost as well and some AP gain. Make it like a lesser version of hallowed ground, and bam we have a encounter that makes us viable and useful for dungeon runs etc. - @isaintify1

    Cleansing Touch:
    • You release a radiant blast of holy energy that heals all nearby allies in a 15ft radius around you or the target. You cleanse any negative affects on allies (Such as poison, fire etc) - @mythosyggdrasil

    Divine Touch:
    • Allies near the target are healed for a wave of health and receive a heal over time for 5 seconds for 5% of the users maximum hitpoints. (This is increased by 2 seconds for every point) - @mythosyggdrasil
    • Today, if you use DT as a devOP, you're faced with this connundrum: if you want to use it to deal damage you can forget it since it has the damaging potential of a wet noodle but if you want to use it to (over)heal (yeah dealing 2K damage but healing 80k you got the balance right DT) you must hit a foe. which means either buff the damage significantly or get rid of the targeting condition to make the power usable. - @damoc
    • The tooltip states heavy radiant damage but in reality the skill hits like a very small kitten the tool tip really should be adjusted to reflect this or the power given a substantial increase in damage. - @squealio
  • hirogarde
    hirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    Relentless Avenger:
    • I love the encounter but hate the knock back. My idea is remove the knock back and make the AOE burst be a disorientate effect similar to burning light, and when you target an ally you rush to the ally and let out an AOE heal equal to one charge of divine call. - @wartailss
    • … how about instead either give the friendly target a shield, temp hp or increased Dr and could even make the buffs effectivness be based on distance traveled to the target (yes ripped that one directly from the division lol) buffs effectivness increased 1% per foot traveled for a max of 60% for 10 sec. - @wartailss
    • hmm I do like the idea of the shield to allies kinda like absolution, but I think temp hitpoints would be best. It can be measured based off your idea of your own hitpoints. So like you said travel 60ft they gain 60% of your max hitpoints as temp. I would rule out the DR because, that would be pretty broken when it is combo with Divine Shield, Banishment, and bane. That would be a total of 110% DR, Just from those alone. I really like your idea and would make it much more suitable. - @isaintify1
    • So basically remove knockback effect, make it a burst aoe damage(maybe minimize its current damage for it) allies gain temp hitpoints based on how far you are from them. Effective feat of 5ft(maybe increases range for each point) Does not stack on other temporary hitpoint buffs. - @isaintify1
    • Should gran aoe temp hp or shield, NOT fling enemies to the freaking moon. - @duskwood

    Sacred Weapon:
    • Your weapon receives the blessing of the gods increases damage dealt by 15% for you for 5 seconds. On initial activation of the encounter you release a wave of healing energy that heals you and allies. (So this encounter can only be used every 16 seconds, and with each point increase damage dealt by 2.5%) - @mythosyggdrasil
    • Sacred Weapon should be party wide - If it gets party wide giving each ally bonus damage and heal then its a good support encounter. For now it's pretty useless. - @damoc
    • I wouldn't mind Sacred weapon getting a boost which adds maybe a 5.0% damage debuff to a foe struck and a 5% increase to incoming healing to its target. - @majorcharvenak
    • I think Sacred Weapon should be a party wide buff(that includes yourself). So improves everyones damage by 5% like you said but with each point goes up like 1-2% - @isaintify1

    Smite:
    • You smash a target igniting them with holy fire for 5 seconds this applies holy scorch to nearby enemies and decreasing affected targets damage by 3%. (This encounter can only be used every 12 seconds, and decreases targets damage by 3% for every point) - @mythosyggdrasil
    • Smite actually heals allies in the area - @ravenskya
    • Smite is too slow - I know I may surprise you but between the moment you activate it and the moment it hit you have almost 2 seconds where you're open to CC and it's frequent you get bumped or something, wasting the move. For the puny amount of damage it does you could expect a smooth delevery. So either speed the delivery up or increase the damage to improve the risk/benefit ratio. - @damoc

    Templars Wrath:
    • Allies in the affected area gain temporary hitpoints by 20% in addition to damaging foes.(With each point the effect increases by 10% for a total of 50%) Yes I am aware it will act like a protectors but this is the best I can come up with for this one, suggestions and additions would be nice for this one. - @mythosyggdrasil
    • needs way more temp HP, it gives like 1% - @duskwood

    Vow of Enmity:
    • Allies who strike the target are also healed, and deal an additional 5% damage to target. (Allies deal an additional 5% for every point) - @[email protected]"wartailss#9312"
  • hirogarde
    hirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    Paladin Mechanics
    New
    • Dailies should have special effects when used by a protection or a devotion pally, just like encounters and at-wils. Protective buffs for protection pallys and power buffs for devotion pallys - @entspringen
    @svenisperfect
    o That a devotion paladin gets a passive which will allow overheals to count towards stackable "life shield" on party members. I am thinking this should be capped up to an X% of the targets max HP. I think 35% should be a start, unless it will prove to be too powerful.
    o That while this "life shield" is active on a player their damage output will be buffed in one form or another. Maybe through just a flat damage increase, or maybe have some cool interaction with the paladin's abilities damage output for every "lifeshield" in the party.
    @ravenskya
    o Decide if we are going to have threat or not - if not then take away the aura that generates threat from the healadin and give us a different aura that scales our outgoing damage vs healing numbers based off of the number of people in our group. 5 person group = increase in healing, decrease in damage output. 1 person left alive in group/at boss or soloing = decrease healing and increase in damage output.
    o If you are going to give the healadin the ability to generate threat - then change that aura to actually make us generate increased threat with damage done to target, or based off of outgoing heals.
    @damoc
    o one concept we didn't explore yet to fight against one-shot without either an complete immunity or a massive amount of temp HP: irreductible HPs.
    o By this I mean the last few percents of your health bar can't be depleted once every 20 or 30 seconds. It looks like an immunity but it only activate if you reach this last few percents of HP and it lets ou on the brink of death wich means a second hit even for a small amount is likely to kill you.
    o This is meant to give a chance to get healed not a free 'stand in red' pass.
    o My vision was more: if you have a charge of 'stay standing', any damage that would drop your HP below 5% of your max HP instead consumes your charge and put you at 5% of max HP. The charge goes on cooldown for a time meaning you can't get a new one. Not really an immunity, more like a delay, a kind of 'soulforged charge while you're not dead', giving back the healing role utility since it becomes paramount to heal back to full health after such an event.
    • Healadins could definitely do with a power/feat that prevents one shotting. - @armadeonx
    @damoc
    o Allies with this buff (don't know how it got there it's just a concept) prevent all damage done to them for the duration of the buff but instead get an DoT for the same total damage value but dealt over 10 seconds.
    o The aim is to 'force' us to heal and to get rid of the insane burst damage of HLvl monsters by forcibly changing it to dots (uncleansable of course no cheese allowed) For example if a 400k hit comes on the buff, it will instead deal aroud 40k per second for 10 seconds. If a second hit comes, while the buff is still here a second DoT appears alongside the first one. That's where we need our full potential for healing because we must at least pull more than 40k HPS to keep the wounded alive.

    Changes
    @ravenskya
    o At wills get a damage buff
    o I would like to see the length of our animations decreased substantially. That would make me a happy healadin.
    • I would object to scaling down our healing abilities to anything more than 15% of what they are now. Reason being is that 1) Its the one aspect of our class they haven't nerfed. It's the one thing we are built for and good at. It's just the niche isn't needed at endgame like buff/debuffs are as well as the overabundance of self-healing sources. 2) Either next mod or a few more mods down the road, the devs might relook at other self healing abilities (thinking lifesteal) and move to nerf them into the ground, in the name of 'not trivalizing the content'. Personally, I'd rather us be in a position to be needed and considered as a suitable alternative (not replacement) but alternative to a DC. Thems my two coppers. - @majorcharvenak
    @squealio
    o Paladins have great powershare 25% if we take the feat but devotion falls behind protector quite substantially our Divine Call for protection is perfect 500% threat 10% dr and power increase where as Devotion has Healing and a stat increase only if the target is healed.
    o To handle Devotion buffing a party could a power increase element be added to the mechanic linked to healing maybe or to damage capped in the same way as Protector.
    o At Will: Both paths could do with a small increase to at will damage shielding strike has twice as hard but I believe it take longer to use the combo that being said they all hit quite low for a main skill.
    @damoc
    o The big problem is we heal like mad (in the range of full HP heal in 2 seconds flat) but the game is rife with one shots at hlvl. Nobody can heal the dead. Maybe if they reworked bulkwark or Light feat tree to make one of the capstones something like:
    o Your encounter powers do not heal anymore but generate a shield (blue HP) for 33% of the nominal heal cummulative to a max of 100% of the healed person HP. The heals provided by your at-wills and feats still heal.
    o Sanctuary more responsive - I hate when the sanctuary doesn't rise and instead I get the GF guard animation with the added demerits [email protected]"entspringen#2024" ng me vulnerable and locking my powers.
  • hirogarde
    hirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    New Powers:
    @squealio
    o Firstly rename Divine Judgement to Hammer Of Faith you will see why shortly I would also like to see its base damage increased but would be worried about the effect on pvp as it can already hit quite hard.
    o New power: This power would replace Healing Font and be called Divine Judgement I wanted to keep this power Devotion only as I feel the changes that have been made to protector have put the class in a good place.
    o Tooltip: Upon activation The Paladin starts to pass judgement on enemies within 20ft for 5-10 seconds. When the paladin or and ally attack and enemy being judged the target gains a stack of judgement. At the end of this effect enemies receive damage (stacks of judgement x base power damage) this power has a cooldown of 30 seconds and is 25% effective in pvp.
    o This group dependant power will have the ability to hit hard if the team work together to build the stacks and relies on the paladin to cast the skill at the right time for maximum effect.
    o I think this power should only effect the Paladins group as in Tiamat or similar content this could be game breaking.
    o The idea behind this power was to try and help the devoted paladin find a place in high end groups,
    o i'm not saying that we don't get in high end groups but we are the third choice currently and a power that requires timing and group organisation to unload there skills at the right time may be an answer to this.
  • hirogarde
    hirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    The formatting didn't hold well, but hopefully it's an easier read. For all the discussions, you can reference the original post HERE.
  • majorcharvenak
    majorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    @hirogarde, Thanks for putting this together. Definately an easier read than before and hopefully folks will look to add some more good ideas into the mix.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • hirogarde
    hirogarde Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    I'll take the first stab at suggestions. Admittedly, I play Protection; mostly because I can't find a reason to switch to Devotion (aside from a few places to boost DPS with boons).

    Oath of Devotion - Change:
    The buff is good, but its application process is too limited. Change it to any healing spell cast on an ally resulting in the Oathbound Buff; not requiring HP to be restored for the buff to take effect, nor to be refreshed. But when it expires it cannot be re-applied for 20 sec.

    Cure Wounds (Devotion):
    This is a tough one because Cure Wounds is a Paladin staple. But it’s difficult to justify replacing Oath Strike or Radiant Strike with it considering how well DevOPs heal without it. If (instead of changing this) DevOPs were given a “charge” component on Oath Strike (first swing charges, third swing heals), it might find its way onto toolbars replacing Radiant strike… might.

    Oath Strike – Devotion Change:
    See “Cure Wounds” above

    Bond of Virtue (Devotion):
    I don’t think this should be tinkered with at all. Obviously, it’d be nice if it were an aura, but seeing how powerful a healing tool it is, being an encounter that can be turned off by CC is justified.

    Absolution – Devotion Change:
    The Devotion version gives a buff that increases incoming healing… in turn-based this could actually be useful, but in Neverwinter, it’s essentially useless. When the buff is applied, the ally isn’t taking HP damage, when they do begin taking HP damage, it means the buff is no longer active. Change it to extend the buff for 10sec after the shield expires. Or, better yet, change it so the shield itself can be extended by healing – directing heals to the shield rather than the player.

    Healing Font (Devotion) - Change to "Font of Life":
    Along the lines of preventing one-shots – This fountain applies a buff to party members (not allies, party members only - to keep it from being abused), if the party member takes damage that exceeds 75% of their maximum HP, the damage is instead absorbed by the shield and a DoT is applied that does 15/14/13/12% of the absorbed damage per second for 10 seconds. This buff lasts until combat expires or another daily power is used by the caster. Yes, it’s amplifying the damage, but because it’s spread out, it should be healable by normal means.

    Aura of Restoration (Devotion) - Change:
    With BoV, larger heals are rarely a problem. Even without BoV, there’s a lot of options to better our healing. Change this to give a 4/6/8/10% chance to refresh positive buffs every 3 seconds. Refreshing buffs wouldn’t rid a party of the want of a DC, but would help a DevOP cotribute more to a party with one.

    Aura of Divinity (Devotion) - Change:
    The inability to proc boons without actually healing makes this Aura less desirable that it could be. Also, the low tick rate combined with the minor heal just doesn’t justify using it in place of something else. Change it to add a buff to party members that ignores CC effects. Basically make it so if a CC hits the member, it removes the buff and ignores the CC effect. The Aura causes the buff to refresh every 10/8/6/4 seconds.

    Aura of Life (Devotion):
    This one can actually come in useful at times, so no change is necessary, but… if you were to add a chance to raise without rez sickness, it’d become much more valuable.
  • majorcharvenak
    majorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    I like a lot of the suggestions you put forward @hirogarde. The only two that I'm not sure would pass the dev check would be if Absolution's shield could be 'healed' as then you'd make it a near perma-shield of protection given how much and how quickly we already heal. I don't know...Maybe give it a proc that could accept a heal to the shield, that way it might not necessarily be permenant. The second would be with your proposed Aura of Restoration change, as it seems to have to potential to bypass casting and cooldowns by keeping the buff refreshed. Perhaps having it work like Aura of Wisdom and instead of increased recharge speed, it gives a boost to AP generation. Just a thought, but I do really like the other suggested changes and think they would make for a great first step.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • majorcharvenak
    majorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    In game now and looking over Aura of Restoration, I would recommend:

    Aura of Restoration (Devotion) - Change:
    You and all allies within 30' gain 2.5% increased AP generation. +2.5% each subsequent tier for a maximum of 10%. Something along the lines of Holy Fervor for DCs but only half as effective.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • isaintify1
    isaintify1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 414 Arc User
    @mimicking#6533 @nitocris83 Take a look at the suggestions made by the wonderful community for a Oathbound Paladin Devotion rework. Please take a look at the Devotion Paladins encounters. 7/10 encounters have the same exact description or do the same exact thing but with different wording.
  • dominious12
    dominious12 Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    I'm delighted to see some healadin rework suggestions because I always thought the orginal design for the class was quite lazy. The special effects the protection path gets on skills generally seem well thought out, but for devotion it seems early on someone just said "eh it's a healer, stick healing on it" and left it at that.

    I'd like to see a return of Aura of Haste in place of either Restoration/Divinity so I don't feel like I have to use Courage/Wisdom 99% of the time (and so i don't feel useless when paired with a protection paladin).

    For power buffing perhaps we could get a mechanic like an inverse form of the protection power buff, so as we heal allies we give them a power boost, up to a max based off their HP.

    Also, +1 to burning light without charging mechanic, and relentless avenger with some kind of daze/stun/knockdown rather than knockback.
  • invis#2614
    invis#2614 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    I would love to see some changes, because healadin now is totally useless, he can't be as good as top DPS(and he shouldn't), he can't be as good as any tank(and he shouldn't), and he can't buff even near as good as DC do(hmmm), only what he can do is heal, thats is useless for most players. In public run on heal spot there are healadin or DC, but why there are so much difference in profit for group, many players when they see healadin no DC they just leave dungeon. Devs now want to do something with two DC run, don't do anything with that, make healadin(others class) more useful for end game players, because for now healadin is garbage that nobody want.
  • majorcharvenak
    majorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User

    I would love to see some changes, because healadin now is totally useless, he can't be as good as top DPS(and he shouldn't), he can't be as good as any tank(and he shouldn't), and he can't buff even near as good as DC do(hmmm), only what he can do is heal, thats is useless for most players. In public run on heal spot there are healadin or DC, but why there are so much difference in profit for group, many players when they see healadin no DC they just leave dungeon. Devs now want to do something with two DC run, don't do anything with that, make healadin(others class) more useful for end game players, because for now healadin is garbage that nobody want.

    They don't tend to leave in a premade group and in the pugs I've run, its usually I'm the one bailing because of mischief or foolishness within the group, not because of the group composition. Thats not to say that some players don't/wont leave a group but thats awfully short sighted IMHO.

    The healadin is in something of a strange spot in that we're a balanced class amongst a crowd of uber-buffed, mega damage-dealing demigods. We can heal (one of if not the best in game, but you're right - useless at endgame), kinda sorta tank in a pinch, and medicore to modest damage solo/medicore to insane damage in group (depending on the group composition, skill, item level, and each individual healadin's own build). However, I would definately personally prefer some addition utility via added buffs/debuffs to our abilities to allow us to serve as an alternative, within the meta, if an additional DC is not allowed or unavailable. Now with that said, the suggestions above are a step in the right direction and would definately appreciate more. My two coppers.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • rubytrue
    rubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User

    I would love to see some changes, because healadin now is totally useless, he can't be as good as top DPS(and he shouldn't), he can't be as good as any tank(and he shouldn't), and he can't buff even near as good as DC do(hmmm), only what he can do is heal, thats is useless for most players. In public run on heal spot there are healadin or DC, but why there are so much difference in profit for group, many players when they see healadin no DC they just leave dungeon. Devs now want to do something with two DC run, don't do anything with that, make healadin(others class) more useful for end game players, because for now healadin is garbage that nobody want.

    Lol. OK. Healers gonna heal.



  • rjc9000
    rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    rubytrue said:

    I would love to see some changes, because healadin now is totally useless, he can't be as good as top DPS(and he shouldn't), he can't be as good as any tank(and he shouldn't), and he can't buff even near as good as DC do(hmmm), only what he can do is heal, thats is useless for most players. In public run on heal spot there are healadin or DC, but why there are so much difference in profit for group, many players when they see healadin no DC they just leave dungeon. Devs now want to do something with two DC run, don't do anything with that, make healadin(others class) more useful for end game players, because for now healadin is garbage that nobody want.

    Lol. OK. Healers gonna heal.



    Does that say more about your build, or more about the team you were running with?

  • invis#2614
    invis#2614 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    First of all, publication date 29 april and how many nerfs and silent nerfs got healadin from that time? Next, 15 mins run on Tiamat, for me means that u didn't get any monsters DPS and tells me more about group not about You. Tanking as healadin, no problem I could tank Orcus before CN nerfs, without any guild boons or any others profit from guild, but could i do the same in FBI or TONG? hmmmm nope. Now some questions, how many times u run FBI or TONG as healadin main buffer, how many speed runs was with healadins without DC and who u would chose for end game runs between monster healadin and monster DC?
    Post edited by invis#2614 on
  • majorcharvenak
    majorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    Well then @invis, do you have any recommendations for improvement you would like to add to the list above? Something that enhances our utility at ALL levels of gameplay?
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • invis#2614
    invis#2614 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    Double post
    Post edited by invis#2614 on
  • invis#2614
    invis#2614 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I re read everything and nope :) there are more than enough good rework suggestion, that You and Others make and I'm really grateful for that. That's why i wrote this comment because even if healadins don't care about changes, why devs should, my voice doesn't change anything, but it's always voice. From the other hand, i don't know are there others who got that, but i would make divine judgement hit faster, because many times I hit already dead monsters and would add some defense debuff but then it would be to OP.
    Post edited by invis#2614 on
  • jameswesten#6834
    jameswesten#6834 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    First off sorry for my poor english.

    I'd love to see some improvements on the DevPaladin. But there are some things we have to pay particular attention to and these may be the reason why the developers have not yet ventured into the Devotion Paladin. In the following you can read these reasons and see some of my suggestions.

    1. One must not forget the changes in the Paladin/Devotion Paladin to create an imbalance with respect to the GF. We've had enough problems with this imbalance in the past.
    2. Aura Gifts still poses a problem as soon as we run with an Prot. Paladin because only we two provide from each others Aura Gift's. There should be a change in our Paragon Feats. Maybe make Aura Gifts and Prot. Pally Paragon feat. and for example give the DevOP a stronger one to compet with an DC in terms of powershare.
    3. The only thing that would make the DevOP in some way attractive and would make him useful in endgame content is more powershare (be carefull with this think about PvP) or maybe the abbility to negate one shots (but this is eventually difficult when not useless in PvP). Another idea would be to increase our debuff, but i think we should leave this to the MoF. CW's.
    4. Aura of Valor ??? useless I'm a Healadin not a Tank. Ok maybe i can catch up some adds for teammates with low life but nobody uses this Aura. You can replace it for example with a Paragonpath Aura like terrifying insight.
    5. Only change the DevOP. and leave the Prot. Pally like it is.
    6. I also like the idea of bane to be an Aoe Buff for my teammembers and Circle of Power to be an Damage or Power buff for my allies.
    7. IMHO there are not enough Healadin's or Paladin's who are interested in any changes on the DevOP. This is a big Problem. Where a they where are the Big one's i dont want to name them but we need you. Very time when i run for example Elol in a random que and see that i'm running with a little Healadin i'm thinking about his Future and i know it for sure he will never see To9G from the inside or Mspc/FBI with a PUG group nobody will invite him exept his merciful Friends or Guildmates. If he/she did not even quit the Pally before he reach's the possebility to enter these Dungeons.
    8. Give us a second useful Paragonpath like the GF has his Dps one. I want to take the place of a DC. When there is an inbalance between the OP and the GF than on it is on the side of the GF. "Yeah onerotate me---> haha i defete me before" (Sorry for the sarcasm but it's true).
    9. Dev's want to do something about 2dc run's. Here we are you've already done "half of the work". Make us competable! Plz
  • elmeister#2511
    elmeister#2511 Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    rubytrue said:



    Lol. OK. Healers gonna heal.



    Did you seriously post a 15 minute tiamat as proof that Dev OP dps is viable end game, when actually end game viable groups complete it in 6 minutes with 10-15 members?
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    The problems for DevOPs are 3 fold;
    1) Their powers basically just heal or damage. Its not that healing isn't desired, its that the sheer amount of healing that DevOP produces is pointless. About half the powers we have need a rework to do less healing and more of something else. Bane is a great example, but the interaction between Dev/Prot is a problem, and because Vow/Bond is so strong that creates problems as well (though fixing Bond to be a passive would fix that entirely)

    2) Aside from healing the other thing OPs do a lot is buff DR, again this is pointless, even if the healing was left alone pretty much all the DR buffs need to be removed and changed into something else in the buff/debuff paradigm. Aura of Truth is very lonely as a useful debuff, a second one or a proper buff to something other than DR so that 2 OPs can run Courage/Wisdom/Truth/Something Useful.

    3) Our feats are all pretty much pointless outside of Justice Tree and Aura Gifts at the Paragon level. Light becoming the buff tree, Bulwark improving Debuffs and Justice improving DPS would be far more useful and fuel diversity of builds, instead of the cookie cutter Justice/Light builds we see now.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.