The vast majority of players don't have almost-unlimited funds to just rank up all their enchants. The developers have a vested interest in making sure the average player can enjoy most of the content, and that the average player with an established toon can play the hardest content.
In other words, most players are in the same boat you are. The developer's goal is not to sink that boat and cater to a tiny minority. They benefit when the broad player base is engaged with the game.
If the developers really had had the best intrest of the average player at heart they wouldn't have made random queue for epics such a farce.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
I'm actually enjoying Random Skirmish and Random (normal) Dungeons. It's an easy 20k AD for 10k+ ALTS.
I have 2 15k Tanks, OP/GF and there's no way I'm random queuing for an epic dungeon, I rarely get time to do what I do with my existing ALTS. (My mains get a lot of requests).
But I can't see it as sustainable, I've changed how I run normal dungeons. I now wait at every block that requires a player to interact for us to pass and I let them kill the Bosses. But, and I don't blame them, many high geared characters rushing through as fast as they can, that cannot be enjoyable for new players.
One thing I have noticed, is the running random normal dungeon now gives 90 seals, that's a big break for new players trying to gear up for T1's, T2's and beyond and does answer major feedback since mod 6 release on how a new player is supposed to run content for the gear they need to actually complete that content.
EDIT: Oh, and the New Player bonus AD is a nice touch too.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Why not start proposing changes instead of starting threads about "the sky is falling in our heads". Mod 12b has lots of good features. It has problems with RQ and roles OK. So why not propose changes and solutions? Or do you think telling that the players are leaving will solve the problem?.
I think we can propose a "Role Tag" for each of your loadouts, so you can decide what role you represent. Or better, primary role, secondary role. Then the RQ can take this info to make the partys.
Also, balancing a bit the AD rewards could help. I propose that longer dungeons give more AD.
Mod 12b is pretty much horrible. 1 dungeon to run and nothing else...
... I see the RQ a thing that can help new players because they can met more experienced players that in the old system would never met because of the elitism existent in this game. RQ gives this new players the opportunity to play and learn with more experimented and geared players, and that is a good thing.
Sorry but I think we are not playing the same game. For me, the two high level characters run off leaving me to try and keep up. They do not talk to me, not respond to my messages. In some cases they don't even kill the monsters but rather just run past them and leave me to die and start over a few times until they get tired of waiting for me and come back to clear the path.
I don't meet new people, I don't get tips or advice from these random runs at all. The real help comes from the guilds and that has nothing to do with random at all. So I admit, it would have been nice if there were people who took the time to introduce themselves at the start and helped a new player learn but that is not the world I am experiencing in the RQ system and never was in the old system either.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I don't get tips or advice from these random runs at all. The real help comes from the guilds and that has nothing to do with random at all.
Well, just team up with two of your guild/alliance members and queue for a random leveling dungeon. There is no requirement that you run with absolute strangers. In fact, it may be more fun (well, at least more challenging) to run with people around your own level.
i think the dvs left common sense out of this nerf pack they have thrown down our throats. Sure the refine things works, its not great but ok. and you dvs can shove the sort all bag feature back to what ever dark hole you picked it out from, i mean really take all my items from all ove rmy bags and put them in the main first bag?!?!?!wt!?!?!f. atleast give the option to turn the sort all bag feature off, rrrrrg. the other thing that i really hate is WHY cant blue lvl 70 items be refined?!?!?! was that a brain HAMSTER?!?! the other thing that sucks is when you get the purple gear you restore it, ok thank your for making it cost less, but wth i cant refine or salvage it?!!? wt!?!?!f. and dont get me started on the new oh you left the skirmish YOU WILL BE PUNISHED!!! comeon what in the blank were you guys thinking<----thats on you dv's. think im finnaly done...with this bs. thank you to the dv's for giving me the final straw/push i needed.
I have put this off for far to long, I regreat to inform you this is the end, I'm going now, I bid you all a final fairwell.<-tribute to J.R.R.Tolkien from one Hobbit to another. The End
This decadent MMo revolves around just a class aka GWFs that can be played by people without an arm or hand and yet still feel much better than all the rest of the classes. After almost 1 hour searching for groups to try to play the HAMSTER endgame and trying to get good equipment the best solution for this garbage was ALT + F4.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,223Arc User
This decadent MMo revolves around just a class aka GWFs that can be played by people without an arm or hand and yet still feel much better than all the rest of the classes. After almost 1 hour searching for groups to try to play the HAMSTER endgame and trying to get good equipment the best solution for this garbage was ALT + F4.
Hmmm! GWF actually is not the class most end game groups want to fill first.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I'm a pretty new player, I play with my daughter mostly, and I just got my first toon to 70th and have not yet done epic. Here are my thoughts on the randomizer...
1. Skirmishes like the Illusionist one I would do now and then as a chance at decent loot at the end. But I have not been in a random party yet that did all three tiers, they bail at first or second. Mostly because they are being slaughtered. 2. New players get left behind in dungeon runs. The higher lv players will either slaughter everything and leave nothing to do for the lower lv toons or will run past them in harder dungeons and the lower gets killed multiple times. 3. Certain dungeons like the Spell Plague Caverns I have had groups that die multiple times and have to start the fight over and over. In fact I hate this dungeon so much I never do it. 4. Players will pop in and just turn around and leave. Some will leave mid way through the run. This is a time suck. 5. AD is now divided between dungeons and skirmishes. I just gained a lv on a toon and now it says I can't join the random skirmish queue because I am too low level for the highest level skirmish now in my queue. So now I can't generate that AD income... for reasons? 6. Its lazy. What was broken that you are tying to fix? Players only doing certain runs over and over again? If that is the case then fix the other runs instead of forcing players into ones they think are HAMSTER for whatever reasons. Make some fast to do, other give better drops, others more interesting like the Day of the Dungeon Master ones.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,223Arc User
I'm a pretty new player, I play with my daughter mostly, and I just got my first toon to 70th and have not yet done epic. Here are my thoughts on the randomizer...
1. Skirmishes like the Illusionist one I would do now and then as a chance at decent loot at the end. But I have not been in a random party yet that did all three tiers, they bail at first or second. Mostly because they are being slaughtered.
If they aim for AD only, they will just do the first one because doing more will not give you more AD.
2. New players get left behind in dungeon runs. The higher lv players will either slaughter everything and leave nothing to do for the lower lv toons or will run past them in harder dungeons and the lower gets killed multiple times.
The side effect of RQ (that were told by us months ago) is bad for mixing new players and AD hunters.
3. Certain dungeons like the Spell Plague Caverns I have had groups that die multiple times and have to start the fight over and over. In fact I hate this dungeon so much I never do it.
5. AD is now divided between dungeons and skirmishes. I just gained a lv on a toon and now it says I can't join the random skirmish queue because I am too low level for the highest level skirmish now in my queue.
AD is not now divided between dungeons and skirmishes. People used to do 2 dungeons and 2 skirmishes everyday for every toon for the best AD/time production.
6. Its lazy. What was broken that you are tying to fix? Players only doing certain runs over and over again? If that is the case then fix the other runs instead of forcing players into ones they think are HAMSTER for whatever reasons. Make some fast to do, other give better drops, others more interesting like the Day of the Dungeon Master ones.
Believe it or not. Dev created this RQ to help "new players". IMO, it fails badly.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I just gained a lv on a toon and now it says I can't join the random skirmish queue because I am too low level for the highest level skirmish now in my queue. So now I can't generate that AD income... for reasons?
You do the leveling RQ for easy 10K RAD. Then queue up for one of the easier epics. You won't get the bonus AD. But you will get salvage and possibly a good drop.
Also, when you queue, you will probably pull in some well-geared toons from the random queue. The chances of ending up in a run with four other lowbies and failing are slim.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
I happen to love MSP, I hate FBI, I only ran/run it for the loot.
If one looks only at potential RAD earning for new level 70s, then it looks like RQ is bad for them.
Most new players farm a specific epic dungeon for a specific drop they want. Here is where RQ benefits them the most. Whichever dungeon they want to run, the queue should pop faster now. And some 11K toons get pulled from the ERQ. This makes farming the drop much easier for the new player.
While the new player don't get the bonus RAD for the one epic dungeon run, they may farm the same dungeon a few times as they try to get the drop they want, and the salvage drop should help them hit the daily RAD limit.
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Why not start proposing changes instead of starting threads about "the sky is falling in our heads". Mod 12b has lots of good features. It has problems with RQ and roles OK. So why not propose changes and solutions? Or do you think telling that the players are leaving will solve the problem?.
I think we can propose a "Role Tag" for each of your loadouts, so you can decide what role you represent. Or better, primary role, secondary role. Then the RQ can take this info to make the partys.
Also, balancing a bit the AD rewards could help. I propose that longer dungeons give more AD.
That is a great idea...
But, the problem with that is simply that while it IS a great idea... it would address what players see as a problem with ERQ, but what the Devs see as a feature that RQ was built to deliver.
The simple issue would be that if Clerics can queue and NOT include "Healer" in their profile, it would once again slow down the queue pops for FBI and MSP. Same with GF and "Tank".
Of course, if they sorted it so that GWF could effectively queue Tank, and SW could queue as Healer and genuinenly be effective in that role it might ofset the difference.
I have to admit that as far as the SW goes my experience is limited. I have one but have scraped it to L70 without realy getting into the more in depth aspect of build variations and specialities. And my 3rd tier GWF couldn't Tank his way through even the simplest epic dungeon, so that one's another mystery to me.
I think it's soon going to reach a point where they really need to revisit the structure of party make up for queue content. Paticularly with the new queue systems in place. The required role of the Cleric/Pally is less "Healing" and more Buff/Debuff. I can't remember the last time I encountered a high end Pally whose healing was anything more than a happy byproduct of other options. But with load outs, before the ERQ, I often wound up with 15K+ Clerics specced for DPS who offered little to no "support" for the 9-11K guys who needed it. I only see this situation increasing under Random queues.
And don't get me wrong... I'm not blaming the players of those characters, or criticising them for their choices. I'm saying that the role requirements for end game content need revising to reflect current playing styles. Rather than fixating on a meta 3/1/1 system that no longer works.
If one looks only at potential RAD earning for new level 70s, then it looks like RQ is bad for them.
Most new players farm a specific epic dungeon for a specific drop they want. Here is where RQ benefits them the most. Whichever dungeon they want to run, the queue should pop faster now. And some 11K toons get pulled from the ERQ. This makes farming the drop much easier for the new player.
While the new player don't get the bonus RAD for the one epic dungeon run, they may farm the same dungeon a few times as they try to get the drop they want, and the salvage drop should help them hit the daily RAD limit.
But wouldn't it be nice if they could still do both? If RQ was "as well" as the normal rewards? So an enticement for higher geared players to join the random queue for something more than just their daily RAD?
The issue for the players you describe is that they are forced into an "either, or" situation. And the question remains, "why do they need to make that change and force that to be the case?"
Are 11K characters realy making too much in the RAD stakes? That can't be it, or they wouldn't give such large sums for ONE random run.
Why not have the system as it was, and offer an incentive to people to then go and do a random dungeon? What IF... queueing random meant you didn't need to use a key for the chest at the end? What if there was a chance for some GOOD RP based loot to drop? Ultimate Marks for example...
There are probably half a dozen ways they could incentivise rather than corral people into joining a random queue. They may not get as many fast pops on FBI/MSP that way, but they would be faster than previously, and probably get better end results from those dungeons, because most people enterring the random queue would be higher IL and players of lower power characters would feel less like second class citizens.
No one has yet explained why someone felt the old system was so broken that it needed fixing like THIS.
Comments
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1235778/negative-feedback-regarding-random-queues/p2
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I don't meet new people, I don't get tips or advice from these random runs at all. The real help comes from the guilds and that has nothing to do with random at all. So I admit, it would have been nice if there were people who took the time to introduce themselves at the start and helped a new player learn but that is not the world I am experiencing in the RQ system and never was in the old system either.
I have put this off for far to long, I regreat to inform you this is the end, I'm going now, I bid you all a final fairwell.<-tribute to J.R.R.Tolkien from one Hobbit to another. The End
1. Skirmishes like the Illusionist one I would do now and then as a chance at decent loot at the end. But I have not been in a random party yet that did all three tiers, they bail at first or second. Mostly because they are being slaughtered.
2. New players get left behind in dungeon runs. The higher lv players will either slaughter everything and leave nothing to do for the lower lv toons or will run past them in harder dungeons and the lower gets killed multiple times.
3. Certain dungeons like the Spell Plague Caverns I have had groups that die multiple times and have to start the fight over and over. In fact I hate this dungeon so much I never do it.
4. Players will pop in and just turn around and leave. Some will leave mid way through the run. This is a time suck.
5. AD is now divided between dungeons and skirmishes. I just gained a lv on a toon and now it says I can't join the random skirmish queue because I am too low level for the highest level skirmish now in my queue. So now I can't generate that AD income... for reasons?
6. Its lazy. What was broken that you are tying to fix? Players only doing certain runs over and over again? If that is the case then fix the other runs instead of forcing players into ones they think are HAMSTER for whatever reasons. Make some fast to do, other give better drops, others more interesting like the Day of the Dungeon Master ones.
Also, when you queue, you will probably pull in some well-geared toons from the random queue. The chances of ending up in a run with four other lowbies and failing are slim.
Most new players farm a specific epic dungeon for a specific drop they want. Here is where RQ benefits them the most. Whichever dungeon they want to run, the queue should pop faster now. And some 11K toons get pulled from the ERQ. This makes farming the drop much easier for the new player.
While the new player don't get the bonus RAD for the one epic dungeon run, they may farm the same dungeon a few times as they try to get the drop they want, and the salvage drop should help them hit the daily RAD limit.
But, the problem with that is simply that while it IS a great idea... it would address what players see as a problem with ERQ, but what the Devs see as a feature that RQ was built to deliver.
The simple issue would be that if Clerics can queue and NOT include "Healer" in their profile, it would once again slow down the queue pops for FBI and MSP. Same with GF and "Tank".
Of course, if they sorted it so that GWF could effectively queue Tank, and SW could queue as Healer and genuinenly be effective in that role it might ofset the difference.
I have to admit that as far as the SW goes my experience is limited. I have one but have scraped it to L70 without realy getting into the more in depth aspect of build variations and specialities. And my 3rd tier GWF couldn't Tank his way through even the simplest epic dungeon, so that one's another mystery to me.
I think it's soon going to reach a point where they really need to revisit the structure of party make up for queue content. Paticularly with the new queue systems in place. The required role of the Cleric/Pally is less "Healing" and more Buff/Debuff.
I can't remember the last time I encountered a high end Pally whose healing was anything more than a happy byproduct of other options.
But with load outs, before the ERQ, I often wound up with 15K+ Clerics specced for DPS who offered little to no "support" for the 9-11K guys who needed it. I only see this situation increasing under Random queues.
And don't get me wrong... I'm not blaming the players of those characters, or criticising them for their choices. I'm saying that the role requirements for end game content need revising to reflect current playing styles. Rather than fixating on a meta 3/1/1 system that no longer works.
If RQ was "as well" as the normal rewards?
So an enticement for higher geared players to join the random queue for something more than just their daily RAD?
The issue for the players you describe is that they are forced into an "either, or" situation.
And the question remains, "why do they need to make that change and force that to be the case?"
Are 11K characters realy making too much in the RAD stakes? That can't be it, or they wouldn't give such large sums for ONE random run.
Why not have the system as it was, and offer an incentive to people to then go and do a random dungeon?
What IF... queueing random meant you didn't need to use a key for the chest at the end? What if there was a chance for some GOOD RP based loot to drop? Ultimate Marks for example...
There are probably half a dozen ways they could incentivise rather than corral people into joining a random queue.
They may not get as many fast pops on FBI/MSP that way, but they would be faster than previously, and probably get better end results from those dungeons, because most people enterring the random queue would be higher IL and players of lower power characters would feel less like second class citizens.
No one has yet explained why someone felt the old system was so broken that it needed fixing like THIS.