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So what's a DPS GF supposed to do now?

My GF is all damage all the time. Yes, I have a shield and can "block" (that is when the stupid block mechanics decide to work, I tried it a few times with the "fix" but it seems just as broken) but that's not what my toon does. When I ran dungeons for the last year I ran them as DPS. Now, if I want to earn Astral Diamonds, I have to tank.

Why?

Why make paragons when you're now forcing classes to be one and only one thing. And no, simply switching loadouts and skills won't cut it. All my gear is crit/arm pen not defense/deflection. My defense enchants are lifesteal not defense or HP, so like the rest of my gear, they're all wrong for tanking. I'll probably also have to swap my companions. That Erinyes to boost Critical Severity will come in real handing tanking Orcus. Not. So several million AD in gear, enchants, and companions all to earn less than 10K a day.. I should break even in 2027 if I'm lucky.

Can you PLEASE add a way to specify your role to the queues and stop assuming every GF is a tank. Tanking is about more than having a shield.

Comments

  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I can see both sides. DCs/GFs should be able to select their role. it's not like they have to go way out of their way to play the class outside of the design limits - they have DPS roles and should be able to use them. Program the queue to let people select their role - pretty sure there are many games that have done this.

    On the other hand, just know - if you pick a class that is designed primarily as a tank or healer, you are going to be pigeon-holed at some point. it happens in most MMOs. With loadouts, this gets a little better but going from DPS to Tank isn't as easy as say, DPS to healing. They need to have a talent that converts power or crit to defense or something so you don't need multiple gear sets.
  • ontheleftcoast#2086 ontheleftcoast Member Posts: 120 Arc User

    that's what GF's primary role is.

    Then why are there both DPS and tanking sets for GF? Look at any set of armor and there are two forms == one designed to do damage the other to tank. That's true for all the classes but with GF the differences are night and day.

    And, yes, I can run in pre-made parties but let me tell how that goes..

    "Are you tank?" "No." "Sorry, looking for a tank"
    "Can you tank mSP/FBI?" "No." "Later"

    And variations on that theme. Part of the problem is the nerf hammer really hit me hard. I'm doing half the damage I was yesterday and that affects my lifesteal and survivability overall. So I'm really very unhappy with this change and combined with my defective Forgehammer of Gond I'm quickly losing all motivation to play this game anymore.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    Can you not random queue alongside a tank ? I have the sae issue, and they were told about it in the feedback on preview
  • stevedudemanstevedudeman Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    Show Cryptic your displeasure by...boycotting random queues!!!
  • pherrowpherrow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 405 Arc User

    Show Cryptic your displeasure by...boycotting random queues!!!

    As someone who pugs a lot...or used to...I think I am down with this. 1. If I wanted to unlock a particular hamster azz dungeon, I would have done it on my own...not feeling like being forced to so I can have the random Q privilege. 2. Instead of Cryptic figuring a way to make dungeons more active on their end, they prefer to pass the buck, so to speak, to the players.

    I have no problems carrying folks when I pug it (IF htye need it of course). And everyone knows how frustrating pugging can be if you don't luck out with a good group but it was something I was more than willing to do. Even if it meant going slow, explaining HAMSTER...or running back to lead people through CN etc. But I think at this point I'm leavin' the pugs to themselves. They can get smashed up in content that they don't know anything about and then stop playing. Then cryptic can give it a go and try to actually find a way to help without making it our problem. Until then I guess no dungeon AD for me and no free successful learning experience for the pugs I would have gotten on at least a few hundred more occasions.

  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    I donno, maybe just continue to play the way you want to? Just take the tank spot with your DPS GF. For anything under the end-game dungeons, it don't matter. You can still tank while you DPS. And if you are doing mSP/FBI/ToNG, then you probably should be using a real tank build anyhow.

    After loadouts came out, I made a conq SM loadout for my GF. I never bothered switching gear. Doesn't bother me. The quality of pug toons is so bad, even my wanna-be DPS GF in tank gear still out dps many of them.
  • cerberusxllcerberusxll Member Posts: 387 Arc User

    I can see both sides. DCs/GFs should be able to select their role. it's not like they have to go way out of their way to play the class outside of the design limits - they have DPS roles and should be able to use them. Program the queue to let people select their role - pretty sure there are many games that have done this.

    On the other hand, just know - if you pick a class that is designed primarily as a tank or healer, you are going to be pigeon-holed at some point. it happens in most MMOs. With loadouts, this gets a little better but going from DPS to Tank isn't as easy as say, DPS to healing. They need to have a talent that converts power or crit to defense or something so you don't need multiple gear sets.

    look, the primary GF role in this game is tank, going back to day 1.

    with this mod, it seems to me like cryptic are trying to force players back to the roles their classes were designed for, and I suspect the same is happening with DC.

    either adapt and go with it, or switch to a class that is truly classed as DPS.

    the standard party formations is as it has always been for random queues.

    1x heal
    1x tank
    3x DPS
    Cerberus | Scylla | Orion | Makelo | Nemesis | Ares | Artemis | Asclepius | Nyx | Hades | Dexithea | Dolos | Demonax | Athena | Enyo | Medusa | Talos | Alcyone
  • cerberusxllcerberusxll Member Posts: 387 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    that's what GF's primary role is.

    Then why are there both DPS and tanking sets for GF? Look at any set of armor and there are two forms == one designed to do damage the other to tank. That's true for all the classes but with GF the differences are night and day.

    And, yes, I can run in pre-made parties but let me tell how that goes..

    "Are you tank?" "No." "Sorry, looking for a tank"
    "Can you tank mSP/FBI?" "No." "Later"

    And variations on that theme. Part of the problem is the nerf hammer really hit me hard. I'm doing half the damage I was yesterday and that affects my lifesteal and survivability overall. So I'm really very unhappy with this change and combined with my defective Forgehammer of Gond I'm quickly losing all motivation to play this game anymore.
    so you can mix & match your stats accordingly I'd assume. I'd be inclined to believe the "DPS sets" are more focused to single player content, and the tanking sets for group content.

    end solo content for healers and tanks is not that player friendly using tanking oriented gear.

    at the end of the day though, GF's are meant to be tanks, DC's are meant to heal and true DPS are meant to do damage. it's their role. that role changed somewhat when party buffs came into play, but in essence, their roles are what they have always meant to be.
    Cerberus | Scylla | Orion | Makelo | Nemesis | Ares | Artemis | Asclepius | Nyx | Hades | Dexithea | Dolos | Demonax | Athena | Enyo | Medusa | Talos | Alcyone
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    I do wonder if the do go and force tanks back into a tank role and a cleric back into a healer role will they then turn toward the DPS classes and force them into a less tank like setting also. I dont even want to think about all the rage that would cause .Have already seen how some would feel about needing a pocket healer oh well time will tell.
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,418 Arc User
    I disagree! I just posted in another thread about this.

    I random q'd on my GF last night after gearing up to tank(I felt the same as you) however 3 mins into ECC I soon realized we were not getting through it unless I went back to my DPS loadout.

    A DC and I solo'd the boss, otherwise would never have finished the run.
  • bjbrunt#4365 bjbrunt Member Posts: 10 Arc User

    that's what GF's primary role is.



    so you can mix & match your stats accordingly I'd assume. I'd be inclined to believe the "DPS sets" are more focused to single player content, and the tanking sets for group content.

    at the end of the day though, GF's are meant to be tanks, DC's are meant to heal and true DPS are meant to do damage. it's their role. that role changed somewhat when party buffs came into play, but in essence, their roles are what they have always meant to be.
    So you feel that a GF who has worked to get their gear set up for dps should now have to completely redo their build because "That's the way it has always been". The playerbase could be considerably reduced if you force people to fit into the "Holy Trinity" of Tank/Healer/Glass Cannon. Many players want to be able to adjust there characters to fit their playstyle. What you are trying to suggest is that players should only play the way cerberusxll thinks it should be done.
  • cerberusxllcerberusxll Member Posts: 387 Arc User

    that's what GF's primary role is.



    so you can mix & match your stats accordingly I'd assume. I'd be inclined to believe the "DPS sets" are more focused to single player content, and the tanking sets for group content.

    at the end of the day though, GF's are meant to be tanks, DC's are meant to heal and true DPS are meant to do damage. it's their role. that role changed somewhat when party buffs came into play, but in essence, their roles are what they have always meant to be.
    So you feel that a GF who has worked to get their gear set up for dps should now have to completely redo their build because "That's the way it has always been". The playerbase could be considerably reduced if you force people to fit into the "Holy Trinity" of Tank/Healer/Glass Cannon. Many players want to be able to adjust there characters to fit their playstyle. What you are trying to suggest is that players should only play the way cerberusxll thinks it should be done.

    if you want to run RQ dungeons, yes.

    when progressing your character, you end up with a free respec token AND an extra loadout slot so you can build however you want. depsite this though, you'll always be flagged as a tank, and that's how it's been since the beginning.

    if you want to run dungeons as a DPS GF, you're going to have to stick with pre-made groups. if you intend on queueing for the new random queue content, you'll always enter as a tank, no other tank will be placed in your group. you ARE the tank. period.

    and for the record, it's not how I want it, or how it matters to me. with this step, it's clearly what cryptic wants.

    unless you run pre-made, either with friends or pugs, your role IS as a tank. that's how random party formation is figured out.

    1x tank, 1x heals & 3x DPS.

    regardless as to whether you class yourself as a DPS GF, the system classes you as a tank.
    Cerberus | Scylla | Orion | Makelo | Nemesis | Ares | Artemis | Asclepius | Nyx | Hades | Dexithea | Dolos | Demonax | Athena | Enyo | Medusa | Talos | Alcyone
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,820 Arc User
    edited October 2017



    if you want to run RQ dungeons, yes.

    when progressing your character, you end up with a free respec token AND an extra loadout slot so you can build however you want. depsite this though, you'll always be flagged as a tank, and that's how it's been since the beginning.

    if you want to run dungeons as a DPS GF, you're going to have to stick with pre-made groups. if you intend on queueing for the new random queue content, you'll always enter as a tank, no other tank will be placed in your group. you ARE the tank. period.

    and for the record, it's not how I want it, or how it matters to me. with this step, it's clearly what cryptic wants.

    unless you run pre-made, either with friends or pugs, your role IS as a tank. that's how random party formation is figured out.

    1x tank, 1x heals & 3x DPS.

    regardless as to whether you class yourself as a DPS GF, the system classes you as a tank.

    The problem is you are still a tank in the pre-made 5-man group. There is no "unless you run pre-made".
    If he (a GF) is in the group, the group cannot add another tank. If this group has another tank, it cannot do ERQ.
    If there are 5 friends that are not fit into that formation, these friends cannot do ERQ. The question is: why can't they?
    If I am a GF and I have a close friend who is a OP, that means we will never do RQ (besides LRQ) together.
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,401 Arc User
    Several options:

    a. Learn to tank on DPS GF and adjust your build accordingly.

    b. Facetank MC, eLoL, VT, eToS, eCC, and eGWD via Lifesteal.

    c. Rage quit if you get SP, FBI, or T9G.

    d. Occasionally use your shield when a big hit comes, or dodge if needed.

    e. Never random queue and simply salvage things/pray for good drops for income.

  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    Several options:

    a. Learn to tank on DPS GF and adjust your build accordingly.

    b. Facetank MC, eLoL, VT, eToS, eCC, and eGWD via Lifesteal.

    c. Rage quit if you get SP, FBI, or T9G.

    d. Occasionally use your shield when a big hit comes, or dodge if needed.

    e. Never random queue and simply salvage things/pray for good drops for income.

    Those are all great options and because I have gotten so hooked on RNG, you might also think about doing some on line poker.
  • ultimatefgt123ultimatefgt123 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 96 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    Several options:

    a. Learn to tank on DPS GF and adjust your build accordingly.

    b. Facetank MC, eLoL, VT, eToS, eCC, and eGWD via Lifesteal.

    c. Rage quit if you get SP, FBI, or T9G.

    d. Occasionally use your shield when a big hit comes, or dodge if needed.

    e. Never random queue and simply salvage things/pray for good drops for income.

    f. Earn your AD by running Tong as Support (aka buff/debuff) with OP Tanks and farming for Ultimate Enchanting Stones.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,820 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    rjc9000 said:

    Several options:

    a. Learn to tank on DPS GF and adjust your build accordingly.

    b. Facetank MC, eLoL, VT, eToS, eCC, and eGWD via Lifesteal.

    c. Rage quit if you get SP, FBI, or T9G.

    d. Occasionally use your shield when a big hit comes, or dodge if needed.

    e. Never random queue and simply salvage things/pray for good drops for income.

    f. Earn your AD by running Tong as Support (aka buff/debuff) with OP Tanks and farming for Ultimate Enchanting Stones.

    A GF cannot team with an OP to do RQ. Only one "tank" is allowed in RQ party of 5 for TONG.
    If GF can team with an OP for RQ, this thread would not exist at all.
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User

    rjc9000 said:

    Several options:

    a. Learn to tank on DPS GF and adjust your build accordingly.

    b. Facetank MC, eLoL, VT, eToS, eCC, and eGWD via Lifesteal.

    c. Rage quit if you get SP, FBI, or T9G.

    d. Occasionally use your shield when a big hit comes, or dodge if needed.

    e. Never random queue and simply salvage things/pray for good drops for income.

    f. Earn your AD by running Tong as Support (aka buff/debuff) with OP Tanks and farming for Ultimate Enchanting Stones.

    A GF cannot team with an OP to do RQ. Only one "tank" is allowed in RQ party of 5 for TONG.
    If GF can team with an OP for RQ, this thread would not exist at all.
    Not sure if Skirms are different from Dungeons, but in a Random Skirmish (Merchant Princes Folly), I teamed up so there was 2 GFs and 2 DCs in the group. Seemed strange.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,820 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    lantern22 said:

    rjc9000 said:

    Several options:

    a. Learn to tank on DPS GF and adjust your build accordingly.

    b. Facetank MC, eLoL, VT, eToS, eCC, and eGWD via Lifesteal.

    c. Rage quit if you get SP, FBI, or T9G.

    d. Occasionally use your shield when a big hit comes, or dodge if needed.

    e. Never random queue and simply salvage things/pray for good drops for income.

    f. Earn your AD by running Tong as Support (aka buff/debuff) with OP Tanks and farming for Ultimate Enchanting Stones.

    A GF cannot team with an OP to do RQ. Only one "tank" is allowed in RQ party of 5 for TONG.
    If GF can team with an OP for RQ, this thread would not exist at all.
    Not sure if Skirms are different from Dungeons, but in a Random Skirmish (Merchant Princes Folly), I teamed up so there was 2 GFs and 2 DCs in the group. Seemed strange.
    Random Skirmish has no group requirement at all. Same for Random: Dungeon.
    Group requirement (1 tank, 1 healer and 3 DPS) is needed for:
    Random: Epic dungeon
    Random: Epic Trail
    Random: Hero's Accord
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,111 Arc User
    yeah, just noticed in the q list, was coming back to add an edit to my post but you beat me :) thnx
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User

    rjc9000 said:

    Several options:

    a. Learn to tank on DPS GF and adjust your build accordingly.

    b. Facetank MC, eLoL, VT, eToS, eCC, and eGWD via Lifesteal.

    c. Rage quit if you get SP, FBI, or T9G.

    d. Occasionally use your shield when a big hit comes, or dodge if needed.

    e. Never random queue and simply salvage things/pray for good drops for income.

    f. Earn your AD by running Tong as Support (aka buff/debuff) with OP Tanks and farming for Ultimate Enchanting Stones.

    A GF cannot team with an OP to do RQ. Only one "tank" is allowed in RQ party of 5 for TONG.
    If GF can team with an OP for RQ, this thread would not exist at all.
    So @plasticbat, are you saying a GF can't team with an OP to do RQ even if the OP switches from a Prot loadout to a Devo loadout before queing and then back (and lose the role bonus I suspect) after the queue pops? Seems weird because I've been doing RQs since the start and it seems to work. Granted I queue and stay in my healbot configuration but prot pallies, GFs and GWFs do show up on the party roster and I can easily switch my loadout at a campfire. Seems odd. :|
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
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    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
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  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    at the end of the day though, GF's are meant to be tanks, DC's are meant to heal and true DPS are meant to do damage. it's their role.

    I pretty much completely disagree.

    Your role is just to do your best to help the group you are in to accomplish its goals in the most efficient and enjoyable way.

    That's it...that's all.

    For a typical DPS class/build that means basically killing stuff before it kills you and your team members, but for many other classes things are not so simple. As a DC, do I help my team more by healing them, by buffing them so they do more damage or take less damage, or should I be focusing on debuffing the enemies so they are less of a threat? As a GF do I focus on being a tank, keep the enemies focused on me to protect my teammates, or do I focus on killing the enemies before thy can hurt us?

    Choices...choices...choices.

    That's the beauty of it...the game was set up in a way to allow people to avoid having specific roles - classes have two paragons and three different feat trees - not all combinations are viable, but most classes have at least a couple of different, viable builds. (sorry, SWs).

    I do not like being pigeonholed into a specific, narrow "role" - I want the freedom to figure out how to best accomplish my primary goal, as I mentioned earlier.

    If the game changes in a way that I am forced to play one role and one role only, I am pretty sure that will be the end of the road for me. There is another MMORPG that I really look forward to under development, and Neverwinter cannot afford to HAMSTER off players by imposing this "role" nonsense.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,820 Arc User

    rjc9000 said:

    Several options:

    a. Learn to tank on DPS GF and adjust your build accordingly.

    b. Facetank MC, eLoL, VT, eToS, eCC, and eGWD via Lifesteal.

    c. Rage quit if you get SP, FBI, or T9G.

    d. Occasionally use your shield when a big hit comes, or dodge if needed.

    e. Never random queue and simply salvage things/pray for good drops for income.

    f. Earn your AD by running Tong as Support (aka buff/debuff) with OP Tanks and farming for Ultimate Enchanting Stones.

    A GF cannot team with an OP to do RQ. Only one "tank" is allowed in RQ party of 5 for TONG.
    If GF can team with an OP for RQ, this thread would not exist at all.
    So @plasticbat, are you saying a GF can't team with an OP to do RQ even if the OP switches from a Prot loadout to a Devo loadout before queing and then back (and lose the role bonus I suspect) after the queue pops? Seems weird because I've been doing RQs since the start and it seems to work. Granted I queue and stay in my healbot configuration but prot pallies, GFs and GWFs do show up on the party roster and I can easily switch my loadout at a campfire. Seems odd. :|
    If you are a Healadin and teamed up with another GF or OP to do a Epic RQ (not level dungeon or skirmish which have no role requirement) and worked, I stand corrected.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    Sorry, but DC's have NEVER been pure healers, not even from the very beginning. They have always brought a combination of buffs, debuffs, DPS, and heals, regardless of spec. Even pure Righteous DC's do some (minimal) healing, and even pure Faithful DC's do some (minimal) buff/debuffing.
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