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So guild advancement is supposed to basically stop now?
luvirini
Member Posts: 25 Arc User
So the primary goal of update 12b was to stop advancement of more casual guilds as they cannot get dungeon shards?
In out guild with 7 players/55 characters, 45 characters are level 70 and below 10k item level, 3 are 10k+(one of them above 11k) and 7 below level 70, so the quests given by the cleric for dungeon shards are not doable by most.
Before we could easily run the easier daily epics and skirmishes with a lot of the characters (20-30) and thus gain them at a reasonable rate.
So i seems that the one of the design goals of module 12b was to stop casual guilds from advancing and it seems like a resounding success.
In out guild with 7 players/55 characters, 45 characters are level 70 and below 10k item level, 3 are 10k+(one of them above 11k) and 7 below level 70, so the quests given by the cleric for dungeon shards are not doable by most.
Before we could easily run the easier daily epics and skirmishes with a lot of the characters (20-30) and thus gain them at a reasonable rate.
So i seems that the one of the design goals of module 12b was to stop casual guilds from advancing and it seems like a resounding success.
2
Comments
But it indeed hampers the growth of many guilds quite a bit.
Instead of reworking that entire system why not add dungeon shards to other payout(s) like the end task in the Maze engine campaign ? Add 20 or more shards to that box for instance so once every 5 days players can donate dungeon shards again that they cant do right now.
It's a really simple change of the system and would give guilds back their oppertunity to grow while still leaving your new random dungeon feature intact.
They even said on the stream that they expect players that are maxed level to "slow down and smell the roses" when paired with low geared players or new players (yea right).
Just keep the old quests along with the new. win win.
So they cannot be done by most level 70 characters.
Devs made a good decision when they added the ability to Solo private queue into a dung/skirm. You know why this was wanted? Because most 16k toons don't want to spend 10+ minutes in esot or kessels or elol or any other content that gets run for its speed and efficiency. This again falls into the realm of arrogance to think that they could dictate how people will play without any fallout.
Now users are leaving, SHs are being negatively affected, basically every single reason that thousands of posts complained about before this went live has come to fruition. And not for nothing, but there used to be a leaver penalty in the game and it was removed because it quite frankly sucked. So like every other thing that has failed in the past (ahem, black ice, voninblood) the powers that be decided to bring it back. Because if at first you don't succeed, well you'll probably fail again. It's not slipping through the cracks. It's being heard, monitored and the likely plan of action is to give this 2-4 weeks to see the fallout and judge risk/reward of what they've implemented. I don't see them changing much honestly. They'll lose some players, some will just not use random and rely on salvage, they'll still get some players using random, and that will be a success to them. If they ignored the complaints while this was on preview there is no reason they'll do anything more than tweak this the queues very slightly.
The worst of this is that I think most people would have been random queueing if FBI/MSVA/MSP were in their own queue. But apparently that was too hard to comprehend.
Of out guild of 7 people 4 are taking a break until they can run epics and gain something again for themselves and the guild as the actual end chest rewards are laughable.
Before they could run easier epics and skirmishes and get dungeon shards and AD in addition to the chest rewards, now they only get the end chest as they do not have characters with the required item score.
We also used to also run the occasional guild runs for them when the daily stronghold epic was something easy enough that the guildies could participate. Guess those are not happening either.
Plus, teaming up with alliance mates is harder, and the random queues only work with public queues and their requirements, making it even harder to get guild/alliance runs together.
1/3rd of my guild has already switched to other games, and looks like we're about to lose another 1/3rd. You're killing us! To solve what problem?
NW-DM9Pj62ZK 'Bear with Me'
NW-DOPPZAYKQ 'Retirement Plans'
NW-DKJMLS8OQ 'Sleepy in Cea Tull'
Put another way, if I'm running CT for the 4th time in the same hour, what's the chances I'm going to care to look around on the 4th and subsequent times?
There is another aspect to consider. Previously you could pick up the daily dungeon quests over the week and do them all together on the weekend. This is great for people like me with a family, a full-time job and limited playtime on workdays.
With 12-B I cannot accumulate Dungeon shard quests over the week, so I would not be able to collect as many shards as before. Now, my guild is GH 20 and has all boon structures maxed out, so I would just be donating the shards to one of the other alliance guilds, and I will simply be doing less of that.
The real losers are the smaller/newer guilds, those still building up.
Edit to add that it really is terrible to see all of the lower level players locked out like this. Contrary to what the dev in the random queues thread posited, it is neither easy nor fast to level a toon to 11k. Stalling their guilds is just one more hit.
In my guild I am one the officers in charge of gearing up new 70s so they can run cleric quests and get the shards, and they do it quite well and the guild is growing fast. I know how much effort it takes to make these new players dungeon ready, let alone FBI and MSPC ready. At this point, we only have a handful of players able to get into those RQ, this means fewer shards for us.
Also, I can safely state that if a group with two or three fresh 11Ks, in any role, come into an FBI or MSPC the run will be a sure fail. With this thought in mind I'd suggest the Devs (If they are really reading these comments cause it seems they are not) to separate the dungeons into Tiers. We already do this informally (They've already did it with Hero's accord actually
Fresh 70s in my guild are very concerned about this RQ and some are already leaving the game since they are too far from reaching 11K and I am sure more will follow them if changes are not made. I am watching a game I like being destroyed by those who develop it
This absolutely clobbers small guilds and should be looked at asap. (never mind the costs of the SH structures which are still ridiculous for small guilds - I mean 5K shards for some lvl 5-6 structures?? Behave)
And as for his comment that it is easy to get to 11K IL? MY HR has 4 Legendary artifacts, Drowcraft shirt/trousers, 1 Legardary gear (3 others purple), 2 Pilgrim armour, one relic 1, mostly rank 7/8 enchants (one 10), all blue insignia, 1 Legendary companion with all rank 8 bonding stones and is still not 11K - easy?? considerable investment.
Small guilds are utterly screwed by this.
A potentially bigger issue for smaller guilds is that recruitment and keeping players will be a stone cold HAMSTER from now.
It's fairly manageable to get a new L70 to about 9.5K IL within a few weeks of hitting L70 for most people.
Its that next tier of IL to get to 11K and being allowed to join the grown ups in Epic random queues.
It just so happens that 3 level 10 guild boons will get you... upwards of 1500 IL. Which is, coincidentally, just what you need for the average new player to get a median L70 to "Epic Ready"
It's like a joining bonus for top end guilds... "Join us... qualify for the end game"
I created a new OP 3 weeks ago, and power leveled. Bought the stuff that's available from the Trade Bar Vendor and hand me downs from my other characters. New chult weapons from AH, and a couple of inherited +4 Underdark rings.
After buying a bunch of campaign completion packs I've got about 9 boons left to get (c. 270 IL) Artifacts and gear are refined up to purple and Rank 7's and 8's on all enchant lots. 3 Purple companions 2 blue, 5 ponies with blues across the board on insignia... and I'm STILL 600 IL short of 11K. And that includes having the SKT unlocks... If I work my nuts off and get CA unlocks, even with the additional points form the associated boons I will have all the necessary campaign related unlocks, and STILL not be elligible for Epic Random Queues.
I'm not looking for advice on how to get that extra few hundred, I know how, and I have seven OTHER characters I need tyo spend money/AD on as well...
The point I'm making is that if I'm going to all that effort and expense for 10.4K and still not hitting 11K... what possible reason is a new player going to have for joining my R5 guild when they can step over my 10.4k character in one stride with three rank ten guild boons at 50 IL per level per boon?
It's no longer the "option" for a new player to either power play and join a guild for boons, or join a guild for the challenge of helping build it up... that's just gone now... it's an imperatvie.
If you want to play the end game material and you haven't reached the gateways yet, then you HAVE to go for the highest ranked guild that will let you in. Otherwise the way that it is set up... that in a few mods time when TONG drops into the "Epic" list... (no amount of explaining will have that decision make sense...) the gateway slides further away and drops a deadlock seal on it for those guys who are huffing and puffing to meet the CURRENT standards.
(And even a sonic screwdriver can't open a deadlock seal!!!)
They also say it is easy to get to 11K Ilvl. Did they show any data that shows how long does a new player take to get there? The answer is no. It is really sad that good decisions that they take (new refining system for instance) are counterposed by very bad ones like RQs.
> It's easy to get to 11K IF YOU'RE IN A BIG GUILD. I get 1900 IL in guild boons on most of mine. I have characters spread across 3 guilds, the other 2 are R8/R6 and I get tiny amounts of IL from them, those chars are not 10K let alone 11.
>
> Small guilds are utterly screwed by this.
>
> Yes that combination of stopping small guild advancement and forcing high item levels that you partly get from high guild level is a double strike to the gut.
@nitocris83 this is the absolute biggest issue with the way random queues is implemented. If you can fix at least and only this problem it will go a very long way towards easing the issues with it in my mind.