TONG 5 DCs run

illhora · October 2017

Hello all,

Just want to post a nice run we had with PAPY WARRIORS DCs this evening

araxelven · October 2017

Congratz!

And meanwhile for a few DPS classes we get about one invite per month...

Edit: And five TRs would probably last about 60 seconds during the Orcus fight, nevermind the rest of the dungeon.

manufracture · October 2017

You know a dungeon and/or class is broken when this is what happens

preechr · October 2017

...or bonding mechanic

eion311 · October 2017

preechr#2215 said:
...or bonding mechanic

I think you mean powershare mechanic

reg1981 · October 2017

This is why my main is no longer a Warlock. I run my DC and GF a lot now.

ecrana · October 2017

And this is how nerfs...erm I mean balancings... get started.

spideymt · October 2017

I wonder why we cant see any DPS numbers....
We will see how theese DCs gonna react when module 12b is live.

preechr · October 2017

eion311 said:

preechr#2215 said:
...or bonding mechanic
I think you mean powershare mechanic

Nope...
There's nothing wrong with powersharing, other than the ill-conceived nerf to AA, just as the "problem" is not the Cleric class or even bonding stones themselves

The problem with powersharing is that power shared to everyone's bonding pet is then shared back to them, multiplied by whatever factor their level of bonding runestones allows, on top of the direct powershare they already benefit from

Seems like there's a little DC hate surfacing here... Is it really that hard for you guys to figure out how 5-10 DC parties are so effective?

For all of the complaints in the Bonding Stone Feedback thread, I don't remember ONE single complaint that the upcoming nerf would negatively affect this excessive, surplus powershare, because what's the noticeable difference between 20Kx285% and 20Kx175% pure power boost for every member of the party? Everything melts 0.1 seconds slower?

Most of the complaints were that the buyback plan was unfair and that many people would have to shift their enchants around and pay to upgrade some of them to get keep their Crit and Armpen stats where they have them now

These are legitimate complaints, and the real problem is nerfing AA, "doing something" about the 2 DC "meta," and nerfing bonding stones fixes nothing, as the real problem was never bonding stones or DC powers...

I build for my guild, so since we really haven't had that many people unlocking T9G until now, I'm only now upgrading beyond what was needed for T2s, FBI and MSVA... I rarely run with other DCs unless its just for kicks or to help a new DC learn stuff, and I purposefully limit my power output to reasonable levels

All T1s and T2s are still a joke with even only one other 13K+ DPS and a tank that can live through it, and my personal DPS ends up somewhere around half of the top paingiver usually

We will have 5-6 guild members ready to start running T9G later this month, right about the time my upgrades are finished, and we will run them with 1 tank, 1 DC and 3 DPSrs, wiping until we master the dungeon, just like we did with CN, eCC and eGWD back in the day

Having no tolerance for being told how to play my class or to play as a companion, I won't be participating in pugs requiring 2 DCs, 1 OP, 1 GF and either a GWF or Combat HR, but good luck you that have bought in to the idea that this "meta" is the only way to play

illhora · October 2017

spideymt said:
I wonder why we cant see any DPS numbers....
We will see how theese DCs gonna react when module 12b is live.

We will adapt, again...without complaining !

EDIT : And don't forget that our purpose in this game is to help DPS to be stronger and protect the team....

Unknown · October 2017

This content has been removed.

armadeonx · October 2017

Buffing via companion is probably the main factor behind the bonding nerf but to my mind the devs took the cheap & easy route, just reducing the amount.

The entire subject needs addressing and it would be a significant amount of work:
* remove power sharing via bondings
* adjust DC and OP powers in a sensible way to compensate for buff loss
* rework companions so they are effective add-ons to the team rather than just sources of extra stats
* augments should have a second active bonus if summoned, making up for the lower stats

tripsofthrymr · October 2017

Please don't make this thread into a nerf debate. It's fine to discuss specific mechanics but stay away from generalized statements.

majorcharvenak · October 2017

Nice run. It's seems pretty (and I'm sure to many - painfully) ironic that back in the days of mod 4, the parties doing runs like this were all made up of CWs, GWFs, and other various flavors of DPS making runs against the hard content. I guess we're about to come full circle with all the upcoming changes in Mod 12b but its nice to see a support class shine like this every once in a while.

Congrats!

erosennin92 · October 2017

illhora said:

chemjeff said:
Congratulations on your accomplishment, you should be proud. So post it on your private guild forum where you can receive due praise. But please don't post this type of stuff on the NW forums, or publicly at all. It only invites nerfs.

if you are right, it is sad, because it took us a while to define and coordinate this 5 dcs run in Tong.
I was expecting a lot more congratulations and questions on how we did it than what I am actually reading above ...
only fews DCs have the competence to do that kind of accomplishement so...

and meh dont care about jealous ppl crying...

I'm actually interested in it on the techical point of view and I have some questions

- How did you cohordinate with specs and rotation?
- Did you try to rebuild a classic group structure or you concentrated into allowing everyone to give more or less the same contributions in term of buff/dps. For example did you picked 2 buffers DC, 1-2 more healing/defense-centered DC, 1-2 DPS DCs or you preferred a more homogeneous structure?

armadeonx · October 2017

illhora said:

chemjeff said:
Congratulations on your accomplishment, you should be proud. So post it on your private guild forum where you can receive due praise. But please don't post this type of stuff on the NW forums, or publicly at all. It only invites nerfs.

if you are right, it is sad, because it took us a while to define and coordinate this 5 dcs run in Tong.
I was expecting a lot more congratulations and questions on how we did it than what I am actually reading above ...
only fews DCs have the competence to do that kind of accomplishement so...

and meh dont care about jealous ppl crying...

I'm sure it did take some effort and coordination and I have no issue with it and well done for the successful run. On the class issue, I'm sure that it's possible with 5 Pallies or 5 Guardian Fighters if they are also well geared and coordinated.

I believe the background for the negativity is from the recent past where we had all DC Tiamat & Edemo runs because of the (now somewhat fixed) power cross-buffing as well as the current double DC meta. It leaves others with a certain amount of class-jealousy, which always leads to nerf calls (even though this would also negatively impact those calling for the nerfs, but they don't think that far ahead...).

The simple fact is DPS players want Support players because of their buffs - but when you put 5 support together they buff each other to a point that can make up for the lack of base DPS and of course, are unkillable.

You could remove 3 of the DCs and put in a MoF, Tac GF & Healadin and achieve the same results if everyone knows what they are doing so people need to get real and drop the class envy. If they took one of the DC's out and put in a GWF, that GWF would've gone into god mode and the run would've taken a 10th of the time.

gabrieldourden · October 2017

Congratulations!

docsnuggles · October 2017

Nice one, gratz

murattti · October 2017

illhora said:
Hello all,

Just want to post a nice run we had with PAPY WARRIORS DCs this evening

So what should we do? What do you do when everyone shows you this while you do not come for the tong ¿ ?

illhora · October 2017

You do whatever you want with it. this run was only for fun between guildies and show what the class can do well builded.
And for the record this is not the 1. DCs run in Tong - Some others DCs has completed it 1 month ago.

Atm i run Tong only to help guildies (i am saving keys for new mod).
I which i could help everyone who is pinging me but it is impossible. i havent time to do so...After my Dailys, IGx2, 1 or 2 runs in FBI i disconnect from the game.

But for sure once new Mod be released TONG be a priority for most high end players. i will definitely run it more often and be more available for it.

Cheers !

usernamefatigue · October 2017

I was in the original 5; we did it when DCs were broken so it was rough at the last boss but a lot of fun. Grats on getting through with your group, illhora! How did it go with Ras-Nisi at the end? Did you have the companion/aggro problems we did? We haven't tried again but now I think we should.

nitocris83 · October 2017

Nice

arcanjo86 · October 2017

looks like there was a 1 healer 1 tank 1 dps 1 buffer 1debuffer(virtous, faithfull, 3 righteous) xD, this isnt an invite to a nerf its a private queue fun run, some player should try it @illhora have you thought about doing a 5 pally run xD, lots of good auras to split between pallys

illhora · October 2017

usernamefatigue said:
I was in the original 5; we did it when DCs were broken so it was rough at the last boss but a lot of fun. Grats on getting through with your group, illhora! How did it go with Ras-Nisi at the end? Did you have the companion/aggro problems we did? We haven't tried again but now I think we should.

Hello @usernamefatigue ,
without bugs on FF and Bts, if you guys give a try now you should notify the difference and clear it pretty fast.
Ras-Nis was like the 2 first bosses, we have surrounded it to get all mitig/protection and bursted it. Only the souls was the issue, we had 3 DOs DPS but i was the only with pur setup for max dommage- the 2 others was more buff/debuff oriented. we cleared it after the 3rd try because of that. (we were in God mode during the all DG, and negligent on last boss...) That is why is think it is possible to finish Tong within 30 min with one more heavy DC DPS - to avoid any surprise. Otherwise no problem with Pets, they respawned fast after falling

arcanjo86 said:
looks like there was a 1 healer 1 tank 1 dps 1 buffer 1debuffer(virtous, faithfull, 3 righteous) xD, this isnt an invite to a nerf its a private queue fun run, some player should try it @illhora have you thought about doing a 5 pally run xD, lots of good auras to split between pallys

Hi @arcanjo86
Expect from DG no heal spell was slotted. all runned it as righteous with buff/debuff and DPS setup.
and i think it is doable for OP and GF as well, for sure.

Those runs are only for fun with Guildies/Friends, and are very very rare and should not invite to anything.

spidey · October 2017

zajojajo said:

We will start spamming balanced bout your class and 20+M hits every 8 sec.

Ha ha. I like those fairy tales about what a GWF can do in DPS.
Keep goin to do such runs, but dont be surprised if devs will take such pics/vids to "balance" some stuff. Did you anything learned about the last trys for "balancing" after devs checked theese "great helpfull" speed runs in FBI? So if they gonna "balance" some DC stuff, dont blame them. Thx.

titiope · October 2017

Nice run :)

isaintify1 · October 2017

This is a good way to get a class nerfed!

rafaelda · October 2017

Nice run Gratz !
I will never understand the complains about extra buff, why would anyone think that was weird since DC can be Buffers, DPS, Tanks or Healers a full party of DCs can have all buffs or a full set of Tank + DPS + Healer + Buffs

It may be too overpowered atm because of boundings/powershare (buff the pet pet buff you back...) but thats not the point here... (i never placed money on hight level boundings because it loocked like Lostmouth again for me...)

I've runned some T2 in a party of 5 GFs and took a bit more of time and we had to addapt our skills a bit but was reaaaaaly fun... nothing could kill us, not much dmg but who cares...

DCs abd OPS are buffers so i think is pretty normal for them to be ablle to run any content as "full class party"...

Anyway gratz on your run ! and tks for playing the support classes, because i know how hard used to be to level and get the buffs (tks devs for loudouts for lessening this btw) with supports...

masteroga · October 2017

Why are people saying clerics are too good? It was a 45 minute run! If it had been under 20....

schietindebux · November 2017

tripsofthrymr said:
Please don't make this thread into a nerf debate. It's fine to discuss specific mechanics but stay away from generalized statements.

Nice run and gj all.
Anyway, I can´t hold myself.
It´s a well know fact and no secret that nearly half of the PC server runs a DC´s or levels one atm. It is your game, and you want it to be the way it is now, running an endgame dungeon with a party of 4 supporter and one dps in general.
I can´t access Tong with my main class, due to severe underperformance. So I run my DC alt like lot´s of other guildies/players do.
There is no discussion about nerfs, there is a general agreement along the whole server that we actually have a balance problem, regarding requested classes. Spending 3-4 min in PE-chat you know wich class to level and wich not...maybe you guys should come arround and have a look?

mynaam · November 2017

This is exactly what is wrong with dungeons right now buffers/healers should not be able to team up and do the top endgame dungeon in the game. I really Hope the dev's fix this massive error in the next mod

P.S. I dn't want any nerfs i just want classes to do what they are supposed to do. My 12k DC & 13k OP run tong where my 14k CW is too week. this makes no sense

TONG 5 DCs run

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