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Improved loot from chests

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  • araneaxaraneax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User




    I am not bothered by the key changes at all. What I continue to be bothered about was that we were all retrospectively called chest decline exploiters but that in their wisdom they've chosen not to take action, yet anyway.

    The option was there to fix an issue they knew of instead chose to blame the player base.

    We also where at fault when we rebelled over coal wards and pres wards being removed from the trade bar store.
    They fixed that issue very nicely. :P
    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    araneax said:




    I am not bothered by the key changes at all. What I continue to be bothered about was that we were all retrospectively called chest decline exploiters but that in their wisdom they've chosen not to take action, yet anyway.

    The option was there to fix an issue they knew of instead chose to blame the player base.

    We also where at fault when we rebelled over coal wards and pres wards being removed from the trade bar store.
    They fixed that issue very nicely. :P
    You'll have to remind me how "we" rebelled :P
  • araneaxaraneax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    araneax said:




    I am not bothered by the key changes at all. What I continue to be bothered about was that we were all retrospectively called chest decline exploiters but that in their wisdom they've chosen not to take action, yet anyway.

    The option was there to fix an issue they knew of instead chose to blame the player base.

    We also where at fault when we rebelled over coal wards and pres wards being removed from the trade bar store.
    They fixed that issue very nicely. :P
    You'll have to remind me how "we" rebelled :P
    I should have said it in a different way. :blush:

    We politely disagreed, with their way of thinking and politely expressed our different opinion on the subject.
    For 50 + pages of a thread. Very politely.

    My own guild rebelled. Some people felt cheated and left the guild. And some left on a very long break.
    I still can not get them back. And i tried. I lost a lot of good players when the change went through.

    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    As I am fond of saying, if the game can survive mod 6 it can pretty much survive anything except maybe apathy.
  • araneaxaraneax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User

    As I am fond of saying, if the game can survive mod 6 it can pretty much survive anything except maybe apathy.

    We can hope so. I certainly do. In all honesty i love playing this game . It is something i always come back to . It would be a shame to lose it.
    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User
    What? You mean when we were told "the wards will not be leaving the tradebar store" and what? Six months later the wards disappeared from there?
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User
    Okay, let's say the improve the chances and/or rewards from a chest. So now every time you open a chest you get the absolute best possible thing. And then you no longer have any reason to run any content whatsoever because now you're BiS and all you do is sit in PE and debate HAMSTER like if the Earth is flat.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Okay, let's say the improve the chances and/or rewards from a chest. So now every time you open a chest you get the absolute best possible thing. And then you no longer have any reason to run any content whatsoever because now you're BiS and all you do is sit in PE and debate HAMSTER like if the Earth is flat.

    I cannot speak for anyone else but myself, but it doesn't matter where on the spectrum you are happy with loot. A Peridot at one end of the scale and a BiS item at the other. At some point in that spectrum everyone is going to suffer from apathy.

    For me, all I see is salvage now. The best way to get it is in eToS. I can jump in a group almost at any time, in quiet periods I can just pug it. I walk away with salvage. Salvage is saved until I can afford to buy what I need.

    You can run eToS in under 10 minutes, a good group almost half that. I run other stuff like eGWD but drop rates on even Bloodstained Shirts and the like are just stupid. Mostly now I just run it and other stuff for SH Cleric quests or maybe run with friends who want it for same or other reasons. I've never gotten the eCC special hat piece, apathy for it has me at the point I no longer care if it drops or not.

    --

    If you think you can see a problem here, it's because there is a major problem here and it's not that eToS can be completed so quickly.


  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User
    Run stuff for fun and not for "I gotta get this drop!"
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Run stuff for fun and not for "I gotta get this drop!"

    --If your build requires an RNG drop, the temptation is to farm it. If it cannot be farmed in a reasonable time compared to the stats/abilities it gives most will just change builds to require something else. All resources gone into creating that item are effectively flushed down the toilet.

    --If the object is purely fun, just run PK,CT, nToS, nGWD etc etc. Little to no gear needed, no reason to purchase anything from Zen Store or AH.

    --Play the odd epic dungeon once or twice a week for fun. If everyone did this I can't honestly say I see any significant revenue stream. It also defies logic as to why anyone would build an MMO to cater for this market since the goal of every MMO is to have you play as much as you can fit in your day/week. Or, at least in a F2P model, slow you down so considerably that you consider taking shortcuts with real money which, tho semantically different is basically the same thing.

    I cannot think of any video games where the objective concept does not require win or complete. MMO games across the board capitalise on this by making progress slow, now RNG plays a part in many MMO's, unfortunately and I cannot say if other MMO's do or do not do the same thing. Unfortunately Cryptic have begun gating content behind 2xRNG, you need a chance drop to have a chance at another chance drop. Good example is Lures, kill a mark, chance to drop lure compnent, use that lure and kill mark for chance of desireable drop. They've been doing this with lockboxes for as long as I can remember.

    If we play stuff for fun and fun alone, the entire RNG model Cryptic relies on for revenue whether it is directly or indirectly no longer remains a valid business model.

    And the problem remains, whether you place a peridot or a legendary mount in the end chest, the result is apathy.

    If my time is not rewarded I will use it somewhere where it is rewarded.

    People are acutely aware of feelings regarding the time they invest and the reward they receive for it, this is ingrained in us from as early as we were able to string two coherent sentences in our heads.

    --There's a dead mammoth there, there's also several sabertooth tigers.
    --The pay sucks but I get to blow HAMSTER up.
    --My job sucks, my boss hates me, the customers treat me like HAMSTER, the rent is due in 2 days.

    ----

    One thing I'd also like to mention about RNG that affects me personally though I cannot say if it affects anyone else / many others in the same way. The more RNG they add into a system the less I feel I am playing an IP I joined specifically for. In this case D&D. Suspension of disbelief (I believe that's the phrase) is removed completely. I don't care if a game has bugs, micro transactions or whatnot, if I am immersed then I am enjoying myself, even if I am grinding.

    I haven't felt a sense of immersion for a long time. I still enjoy the game but mostly, right now, I enjoy it the most when my characters advance, even if that advancement is purely so they can play content for fun.





  • tomiotartomiotar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    greywynd said:

    Run stuff for fun and not for "I gotta get this drop!"

    Maybe you have never been on a Dungeon&Dragons game, but to sumarize, you do dungeons, you kill dragons or whatever boss is waiting for you at the end and then you loot whatever this boss has saved. Thats the basic behind every D&D game, in this game you have just a bunch of elite monster and a few bosses that they are not guarding anything of value and if you try to loot the final chests on the hardest dungeons you will end up with less AD/zen/resources that the AD/zen/resources you had when you arrive to the dungeon.

    Thats is conceptually wrong on any game that has a Dungeon&Dragons logo on the initial screen. The game currently just dont deserve to be include on the Dungeon&Dragon "ecosystem" even if they include Drizzt, Minsc or they call for help again to Salvatore.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User
    tomiotar said:


    Maybe you have never been on a Dungeon&Dragons game,

    I started in 1978. Most of my time in that has been behind the screen.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    tomiotar said:


    Maybe you have never been on a Dungeon&Dragons game,

    I started in 1978. Most of my time in that has been behind the screen.
    Let's not distract from any possible positive feedback by devolving the arguments with those of heritage.

  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    tomiotar said:


    Thats the basic behind every D&D game, in this game you have just a bunch of elite monster and a few bosses that they are not guarding anything of value and if you try to loot the final chests on the hardest dungeons you will end up with less AD/zen/resources that the AD/zen/resources you had when you arrive to the dungeon.

    This is very succinct way of pointing out the problem. If you buy a zen key and do a dungeon, you will end up with less than you had before you started. Doesn't this strike folks as a pretty big problem? You do the hardest content in the game and you walk way with less than what you started with.

    I'm not implying everyone should get a legendary mount every time they run the hardest content, but you should at least break even and over the course of 10 runs, should always end up ahead. Otherwise, why bother running it? For the fun? How much fun is it doing the same content ad nauseam?
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User
    And no matter how they change/improve the loot coming out of the chests sooner or later it will come full circle and "it won't be enough".
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    greywynd said:

    And no matter how they change/improve the loot coming out of the chests sooner or later it will come full circle and "it won't be enough".


    Sorry, all I was able to read from that was, "we're doomed".

  • araneaxaraneax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User
    How about.... bosses drop loot every time you kill them ?

    I mean, every single time.
    I will leave to your imagination what that loot could be.

    Consistent drop for the players killing the bosses.

    So i do not feel guilty for getting a peridot after killing the last boss in a "dungeon", while half of the party gets nothing.

    And i am a dc, i am not doing as much dmg. I am there for lol's and gold on the floor.
    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

  • snottysnotty Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 476 Arc User
    IM sorry but I have to agree, I don't care about being forced to use up a key to open a chest at the end of a dungeon as long as the reward are at least on par with the effort.

    the idea of running CN and opening both chests only to end up with HAMSTER I can get from lesser/easier dungeon is pretty sad. Last time I ran CN 1 of the rewards was a freaking rank 6 enchantment.... really? But if that wasn't a big enough slap in the face, when I was done there I ran the dread ring weekly and oh look, I got a rank 6 enchantment.

    Hmm one 1 dungeon I can solo in like 5 minutes and I get a rank 6 enchantment, the other dungeon can take 30 minutes or longer depending on the team and is considered an EPIC dungeon and I can get a rank 6 enchantment. I dont know about you but something doesn't seem right about that.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    With CN, you have a chance for the wand that you can sell for 700K. You also have a chance for other drops and R8s. When you spend your time in CN vs other things that gives the same reward as the CN base reward, you are gambling your time on the chance for better loot.
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    ...and then that wand is BtA :(
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User
    The r6 is usually a Demonic that Orcus drops. I've never seen an r6 from a chest. r8 plenty of times.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User

    ...and then that wand is BtA :(

    I guess they changed it. The two wand drops I got (quite some time ago, but after the key change) I sold on the AH.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,629 Arc User
    araneax said:

    araneax said:




    I am not bothered by the key changes at all. What I continue to be bothered about was that we were all retrospectively called chest decline exploiters but that in their wisdom they've chosen not to take action, yet anyway.

    The option was there to fix an issue they knew of instead chose to blame the player base.

    We also where at fault when we rebelled over coal wards and pres wards being removed from the trade bar store.
    They fixed that issue very nicely. :P
    You'll have to remind me how "we" rebelled :P
    I should have said it in a different way. :blush:

    We politely disagreed, with their way of thinking and politely expressed our different opinion on the subject.
    For 50 + pages of a thread. Very politely.

    My own guild rebelled. Some people felt cheated and left the guild. And some left on a very long break.
    I still can not get them back. And i tried. I lost a lot of good players when the change went through.

    Have you tried a trip to the dentist... 0,o
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User

    With CN, you have a chance for the wand that you can sell for 700K. You also have a chance for other drops and R8s. When you spend your time in CN vs other things that gives the same reward as the CN base reward, you are gambling your time on the chance for better loot.

    There lies an even bigger problem than the loot not being worth the cost of a key. It's not just that the loot sucks but that once folks have gotten their primal gear there is NO incentive for them to run tong. Thus if you don't do it during the first few weeks of it opening you are left trying to run it with undergeared folks that have no business being in there. No one else wants to run it anymore as it's not time well spent.
  • jumpingmorksjumpingmorks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User

    ...and then that wand is BtA :(

    I guess they changed it. The two wand drops I got (quite some time ago, but after the key change) I sold on the AH.
    They are BoE but occasionally it drops a BoA one.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User

    There lies an even bigger problem than the loot not being worth the cost of a key. It's not just that the loot sucks but that once folks have gotten their primal gear there is NO incentive for them to run tong. Thus if you don't do it during the first few weeks of it opening you are left trying to run it with undergeared folks that have no business being in there. No one else wants to run it anymore as it's not time well spent.

    Which leads to the random queue being initiated in 12b for rAD.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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